(Topic ID: 291379)

Warped PF?

By dinot

3 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by Rob_G
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 3 years ago

    Hey folks I just bought a pair of NIB pins. So far love the games but I had a heck of a time getting one of them level.
    After a lot of trial and error, it appears as if my PF is warped/twisted.

    I can fix it by doing 2 things:

    - Adding 3 washers (per screw) to the left rear PF pivot/bracket. So it lifts the PF support bracket off of the PF a bit in the back left.
    - I can push down on top of the front left pf "hook" (the part the hooks the lockdown support) with my thumb.

    By doing this, the PF is level.

    Thanks.

    #2 3 years ago

    For Safe Cracker, someone sold metal (aluminum?) rail kits to screw to the bottom side of the pf as those tend to sag/warp.

    If there's room, I imagine you could get angle iron/aluminum and do something similar? Which game is this?

    #3 3 years ago

    Something like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-2-in-x-96-in-Aluminum-Angle-with-1-16-in-Thick-802607/204273998

    You can get different thicknesses, etc. Aluminum is nice as it's easy to cut and drill.

    You would use multiple clamps with the angle aluminum to draw the wood (pf) straight and then drive in the screws. Don't use the screws to do the initial pulling as you'll just strip out the wood.

    Never used on a pf personally, but have done this in other applications with wood I wanted to straighten out and it worked well.

    #4 3 years ago

    I would also make a fuss and demand a replacement playfield as it's complete horeshit that any NIB should come in cupped/warped.

    #5 3 years ago
    Quoted from joetechbob:

    I would also make a fuss and demand a replacement playfield as it's complete horeshit that any NIB should come in cupped/warped.

    Also, if he does this he should file a ticket before doing to much to it. You start attaching, and screwing stuff on, they’ll likely void it.

    #6 3 years ago

    I've used angle irons to fix a couple of my EMs that had the typical warp downward from top to bottom, one game that was only mild and another that was really bad, with great results. Also make sure the legs are leveled out evenly on the game (like if both front legs or both back legs don't seem to have the same pressure on the floor, one slides easy and one doesn't). On my Black Hole game the ball was acting a little screwy where it didn't roll very true everywhere on the playfield even though the ball rolled straight all the way down the middle. Sorted the leg levelers out and it cleared it up.

    I don't think a pf that was straightened only by mechanical means of braces or irons would be straight if you removed them after a long time, but it would probably be straight-ER.

    #7 3 years ago

    Thanks for the advice folks.
    Sent the distributor an email tonight.
    I have been playing with the PF to see what is going on. PF seems to be ok until the weight shifts from the front rails to the back rails (as you slide it back). When the PF is pulled out a bit and the weight is on the front rails, it seems ok. It seems to not be warped because there is enough weight on the front to cause it to sit flush. It is when you slide it back and the pivot brackets at the back take the weight that the front left pops up a bit.

    The biggest issue right now believe it or not, is reinstalling the glass. The left apron is up enough that it is causing some friction. This causes me to have to really force the glass back on. This is a bit scary.

    I've attached some pics. The pic of the front rails is when the pivot brackets at the rear are carrying the weight.

    Thanks

    PF1 (resized).jpgPF1 (resized).jpgPF2 (resized).jpgPF2 (resized).jpg
    #8 3 years ago

    Update. The pics were from a few hours ago. I spent at least an hour just inspecting whatever I could to see if I could fix this.

    Now it seems to be better. Did the constant pulling/pushing of the PF have an effect???
    The left front still doesn't sit flush but somehow it has gotten better. I'd say the gap is now about half of what is shown in the pics. Weird.

    #9 3 years ago
    Quoted from dinot:

    Update. The pics were from a few hours ago. I spent at least an hour just inspecting whatever I could to see if I could fix this.
    Now it seems to be better. The left front still doesn't sit flush but somehow it has gotten better. I'd say the gap is now about half of what the pics show. Weird.

    #10 3 years ago

    Just to confirm whether this may be an assembly or alignment issue, have you taken a straight edge to the PF, both vertically and horizontally? There were legit issues with some recent machines that had real warped playfields. If your problems are disappearing after jostling around, that doesn’t sound like a warped PF.

    This is sounding a lot more like the apron hooks not seating properly in the bracket under the lock bar (potentially in one of your pics) and not of a true warped PF as the title suggests. Instead you just got to ensure those hooks fully seat. But please bust out the straight edge and verify because you wouldn’t be the first with a warped PF if actually true.

    #11 3 years ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    Just to confirm this may be an assembly or alignment issue, have you taken a straight edge to the PF, both vertically and horizontally? There were legit issues with some recent machines that had real warped play fields. If your problems are disappearing after jostling around, that isn’t a giant electromechanical product on a wooden plank readjusting.
    This is sounding a lot more like the apron hooks not seating properly in the bracket under the lock bar (potentially in one of your pics) and not of a true warped PF as the title suggests.

    Agree strongly.

    Have you noticed any issues while playing that lead you to believe the playfield is warped?

    If you don’t, I’d stop looking for a problem, and just play and enjoy your machine.

    #12 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Agree strongly.
    Have you noticed any issues while playing that lead you to believe the playfield is warped?
    If you don’t, I’d stop looking for a problem, and just play and enjoy your machine.

    A straightedge across the playfield will answer the warp question real fast. Stern has had a fair number of warped playfields lately. This is the first STh I've seen (if it is indeed warped), but I know of warped LZs and AIQs, both convex and concave.

    Is this sudden cluster of warped playfields Stern cheaping out on the wood in the playfield blanks with an attempt at more "hidden" cost reduction that bit them in the ass? Seems possible, but we may never know. Hopefully they figure this one out. We already had enough to keep an eye out for with the pooling/chipping clear, now warping, too? Too much.

    #13 3 years ago

    It's probably warped and be impossible to level properly. Hopefully your distributor will take care of it and get you a populated replacement playfield.

    My Metallica was the same: https://vimeo.com/122073327

    At the time Stern was not building Metallica Premium so they took all the parts off my old playfield and put it back on a new one.

    Rob

    #14 3 years ago
    Quoted from Yoko2una:

    Just to confirm whether this may be an assembly or alignment issue, have you taken a straight edge to the PF, both vertically and horizontally? There were legit issues with some recent machines that had real warped playfields. If your problems are disappearing after jostling around, that doesn’t sound like a warped PF.
    This is sounding a lot more like the apron hooks not seating properly in the bracket under the lock bar (potentially in one of your pics) and not of a true warped PF as the title suggests. Instead you just got to ensure those hooks fully seat. But please bust out the straight edge and verify because you wouldn’t be the first with a warped PF if actually true.

    I can check that later today. The problems disappear if I force the left rear up and force the front left down (by pressing it down with my thumb). So the PF appears to be "twisted". It seems as if the back half of the PF is twisted slightly counter clockwise while the front is twisted slightly clockwise.

    I've owned over 25 pins and this is the first time I've ever run into this issue. I just cannot get it level. I can get the cabinet perfectly level but not the PF. I am at a point where I can get it close. Hopefully Stern has some thoughts. I want to just grab my big pliers and bend the right hook upwards which might let the entire PF sit lower but I don't want to do anything to void the warranty until I hear back from Stern. Lowering the PF doesn't fix the issue with the PF but it will help with the apron causing to make the glass removal/installation a pain.

    #15 3 years ago
    Quoted from CrazyLevi:

    Agree strongly.
    Have you noticed any issues while playing that lead you to believe the playfield is warped?
    If you don’t, I’d stop looking for a problem, and just play and enjoy your machine.

    I had issues at first with ball holds because I just quickly levelled the cab. With every pin I've owned I could get by with levelling the cabinet and that would get the PF either perfect or very very close. I took off the glass to further level the PF when I noticed this issue.
    The most noticeable effect was the apron causing the glass not to be able to slide easily. Getting the glass on became a bit scary. One wrong push at the wrong angle and I fear that it would shatter. Again, I can get the levelling somewhat close and if this were a used machine I'd figure out a way to get the front of the PF to sit a hair lower so that I can get the glass on/off more easily.

    Thanks.

    #16 3 years ago

    So I tried something this morning and it made things much better. I added 2 spacers under the right front bracket.
    That lowered the PF by that amount. So now the glass moves much more easily....AND...it is much closer to level. Both brackets now sit flush. It is close enough for me to be happy.
    PF6 (resized).jpgPF6 (resized).jpg

    #17 3 years ago

    Doctor6 had a horribly warped playfield on his Star Trek. He ended up getting a replacement.

    #18 3 years ago

    I feel games with warped playfields are often sold as soon as owners notice it but don't disclose it.

    I hope you resolve it because the shot geometry never feels right.

    #19 3 years ago

    Had a severely warped playfield left to right with a high middle on gb pro, in addition to the leg brackets not being threaded and the holes being to big to accept a tap you can say I was pretty pissed, I accosted gary at a bar made him buy me a beer in the middle of what I assume was a business talk with a money guy at a show, in two days he was emailing me with some warrenty folks cc'd pretty pissed they haven't taken care of me yet. So if it's stern.... In my experience they'll fix you up.

    #20 3 years ago
    Quoted from dinot:

    So I tried something this morning and it made things much better. I added 2 spacers under the right front bracket.
    That lowered the PF by that amount. So now the glass moves much more easily....AND...it is much closer to level. Both brackets now sit flush. It is close enough for me to be happy.
    [quoted image]

    If you manage to level the playfield near the flippers, the area at the rear of the playfield will not be level. Nobody is going to want to touch your game if you try to sell and disclose the playfield is warped.

    Don't be happy with a kludge fix. Get that playfield replaced by your distributor and don't settle for anything less.

    Rob

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