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After a disaster in our datacenter took down our server, we are now running Pinside on a brand new server. However, things may not work as expected as we are still polishing the playfield and adjusting some switches! We might be switching to maintenance mode a few times. Please see this forum topic for more info.

(Topic ID: 257845)

Warning! Mirco not returning playfields and plastics.


By Mitch

1 year ago

Topic Heartbeat


Topic Stats

  • 409 posts
  • 133 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 54 days ago by Flynnyfalcon
  • Topic is favorited by 40 Pinsiders

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    Topic poll

    “Have you been wronged or how do you feel about how he treats customers.”

    • I've sent mirco a playfeild and plastic and never received them back 8 votes
      5%
    • I've sent mirco a playfeild and plastic and dont expect them back 2 votes
      1%
    • I'm never buying g from mirco because of this 89 votes
      54%
    • I'll still buy from mirco because I have no issues with his shady practices 6 votes
      4%
    • None of this matters as mirco quality is shit and he never addresses it. 46 votes
      28%
    • I love mirco he can do no wrong. 15 votes
      9%

    (Multiple choice - 166 votes by 147 Pinsiders)

    There are 409 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 9.
    10
    #351 1 year ago

    Legally, the issue would involve intent. If Mirco "borrowed" a playfield and simply forgot to return it, it isn't theft. If he intended to never return the item despite promising to do so, it would be legally considered theft.

    Of course now that he is on the forum here saying he will return said items, if he does not then there is a bigger issue.

    I just don't understand the business sense of legally threatening a customer who allowed you to scan their NOS playfield in order for you to sell repro playfields to others. I would consider the repro playfield as payment for allowing the use of my NOS playfield for scanning. No way anyone would agree to trade an NOS playfield for a repro.

    If your customer is mad, just send them their property. Sheesh.

    12
    #352 1 year ago
    image (resized).jpg
    #353 1 year ago

    Mirco addressed it on here but not sure he’s actually contacted Chrispin yet, maybe the others have been contacted. Hopefully he does sent the items back.

    #354 1 year ago

    Proof is in the pudding so there isn't more to say until someone is contacted and told it's shipping.

    31
    #355 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    The dumbest - Really?

    Yes.

    I can’t even believe I have to say this to another fully grown human being but...if you don’t return something that is loaned to you, you stole it. Congratulations, you are a thief. Wow, I actually had to write that, unbelievable.

    #356 1 year ago

    Hope all get there stuff returned promptly. I was trying to outline why the word “Stealing” in the thread title isn’t actually the right way to say what is going on here. I’m not talking about a “thief”, he could be one if he doesn’t send anything back. It is just the wording of the title that I don’t believe is correct or fair, it could have said “Warning Micro Not Returning Playfields And Plastics” and I wouldn’t have said anything. To assume guilt immediately in the thread title was going to far in my opinion. Happy Flipping Holidays

    #357 1 year ago

    Intent is decided by not returning according to conditions. He had intent by refusing to abide by conditions, thus theft.

    #358 1 year ago

    Mirco:

    Do yourself a favor. Take Crispin’s stuff, put it in a box with a shipping label on it. Write his address on it. Multiple times so there’s no mistakes. Clearly. Print it if you have to. Now. Get it to your nearest shipping depot/store. And SEND IT BACK. Don’t pull any of this “in January” shit.

    Ok, feels good to do the right thing, huh?

    No? Well, I didn’t ask your fkin opinion.

    Go repeat this process over until every other member of this community is made whole again.

    I’m starting to get REALLY angry.

    #359 1 year ago

    You guys need to be patient. Quality work takes time. Anyone remember a company called playfield renovations? I had them redo 4 playfields for me. 1 of them was a Brand new CPR Centaur that CPR said was "Fine when it shipped, Must have been the Humidity" To take out the fish eyes, high spots and fix the cracked and curled shooter lane took PFR about 5 months. 2 others took over 2-2.5 years(Xenon and Funhouse). I sent the last one in 2007. I got it back in 2012(Whirlwind). They told me not to send anymore till they got caught up. Beautiful work. And yea, Mirco has 2 of my PFs plus other items. Always answers me within a day or 2. Apologizes that its taking time. Upgrades to capacity and whatnot. But I only check in every 2-3 months. If it keeps allowing shredded PFs to be replaced, helps keep pins from the scrap heap, Benefits the greater community as a whole, Im all for it. Even if it takes a year or 2. Getting ready to box up another, to ship, whenever he says he is ready for it.

    #360 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinLen83:

    I’m starting to get REALLY angry.

    If this thread makes you angry DO NOT WATCH “Don’t F&€k with Cats” on Netflix. That will make anyone angry.

    #361 1 year ago

    Horrible...

    -1
    #362 1 year ago
    Quoted from pipes:

    This is literally one of the dumbest things I have ever read on Pinside.

    Read ~ 5 posts below, I think he is just warming up !

    -2
    #363 1 year ago
    Quoted from pinballOsp:

    Read ~ 5 posts below, I think he is just warming up !

    Did I ever give the opinion that if you borrow something it is now yours to keep? I’m warming up? Sheesh.

    At least they changed the thread title because THAT was literally dumbest thing I have ever read on PinSide.

    17
    #364 1 year ago

    Just wanted to let everyone know Mirco sent me an email wishing me a Merry Christmas and letting me know that he's getting the plastics done shortly and will let me know when everything ships. I tried removing the emails but my posts are older than 24 hrs so all I could do was stirke the material and leave an addendum. Hope everyone receives the same email. Enjoy your holidays.

    #365 1 year ago

    I'm surprised no one has said possession is 9/10ths of the law.

    For the record - I think what is happening is theft.

    #366 1 year ago
    Quoted from finman2000:

    I'm surprised no one has said possession is 9/10ths of the law.

    Was brought up a few days ago.

    -13
    #367 1 year ago
    Quoted from pipes:

    Yes.
    I can’t even believe I have to say this to another fully grown human being but...if you don’t return something that is loaned to you, you stole it. Congratulations, you are a thief. Wow, I actually had to write that, unbelievable.

    This isn’t true. If someone doesn’t return something that is loaned to them does not equate to them having ”stolen” it. If you “stole” something from someone, you took it away from them without their permission. If someone loaned something they gave their permission to another person to have it. If the item isn’t returned when asked to then one can expect criminal proceedings. The real definition of “stole“ and “steal” needs to be understood. Wow, I actually had to write yet again why what is being said by using the word “stole” and “steal” here isn’t true, unbelievable.

    12
    #368 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    If someone doesn’t return something that is loaned to them does not equate to them having ”stolen” it.

    And the TWIPY for dumbest post goes to...

    #369 1 year ago

    Theft is defined as the physical removal of an object that is capable of being stolen without the consent of the owner and with the intention of depriving the owner of it permanently. ... Larceny is the trespassory taking and carrying away of personal goods from the possession of another with the intention to steal.

    #370 1 year ago
    Quoted from pipes:

    And the TWIPY for dumbest post goes to...

    Dammit! I thought I had this one in the bag.

    -5
    #371 1 year ago
    Quoted from pipes:

    And the TWIPY for dumbest post goes to...

    Still not comprehending the meaning of the word stole/steal... Again

    #372 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    Still not comprehending the meaning of the word stole

    You seem to have a hard time with the meaning of the word ‘loan’.

    #373 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    This isn’t true. If someone doesn’t return something that is loaned to them does not equate to them having ”stolen” it. If you “stole” something from someone, you took it away from them without their permission. If someone loaned something they gave their permission to another person to have it. If the item isn’t returned when asked to then one can expect criminal proceedings. The real definition of “stole“ and “steal” needs to be understood. Wow, I actually had to write yet again why what is being said by using the word “stole” and “steal” here isn’t true, unbelievable.

    Loan a car to a friend. Tell them they can have it for a few months. Ask for it back and they ignore you. Go to the police. The car then is marked as "stolen". Friend is picked up by police and car is returned.

    To steal means to take an item without permission. The item is "stolen" the second it wasn't returned as agreed because the person no longer has the owners permission to have the item.

    #374 1 year ago

    I tried to make a similar comparison in post #281, but it failed to connect.

    #375 1 year ago

    I love how posters parse words and come up with strict definitions in an attempt to show everyone just how clever they can be.

    Not returning something that doesn’t belong to you is theft in my book. If others do not believe that’s theft, So be it...either way, let’s hope the sustained pressure will result in all the playfields being returned to their rightful owners.

    Cheers everyone.

    #376 1 year ago
    Quoted from cliff_clavin:

    I love how posters parse words and come up with strict definitions in an attempt to show everyone just how clever they can be.
    Not returning something that doesn’t belong to you is theft in my book.

    Well said.

    #377 1 year ago
    Quoted from Gunnut40:

    Dammit! I thought I had this one in the bag.

    Distant second bud. Better luck next year.

    -1
    #378 1 year ago

    According to pipes post #355 one is guilty of stealing something loaned them without any proof of “intent”. So if one goes to pipes court and forgot to return a loaned item, well that doesn’t matter, congratulations you are going to be convicted of a crime. Glad pipes isn’t a real judge. One would also hope he isn’t on a jury if needed to deliberate the case. I’m glad there are real courts to determine if criminal activity has been carried out. If pipes had included that “intent” was determined to have been carried out in his post he would have been correct, but he did not. Drop Mic.

    #379 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    According to pipes post #355 one is guilty of stealing something loaned them without any proof of “intent”. So if one goes to pipes court and forgot to return a loaned item, well that doesn’t matter, congratulations you are going to be convicted of a crime. Glad pipes isn’t a real judge. And one would hope he isn’t on a jury if needed to deliberate the case. I’m glad there are real courts to determine if criminal activity has been carried out. If pipes had included that “intent” was determined to have been carried out in his post he would have correct, but he did not. Drop Mic.

    [picks up mic]

    Would Judge PinRob be swayed if we shift the hypo a bit and the borrower was reminded several times that the item was overdue, but still failed to return it?

    [returns mic to mic stand]

    -1
    #380 1 year ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    [picks up mic]
    Would Judge PinRob be swayed if we shift the hypo a bit and the borrower was reminded several times that the item was overdue, but still failed to return it?
    [returns mic to mic stand]

    Getting warmer! Now we are setting up “intent”. Smart man

    #381 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    According to pipes post #355 one is guilty of stealing something loaned them without any proof of “intent”. So if one goes to pipes court and forgot to return a loaned item, well that doesn’t matter, congratulations you are going to be convicted of a crime. Glad pipes isn’t a real judge. One would also hope he isn’t on a jury if needed to deliberate the case. I’m glad there are real courts to determine if criminal activity has been carried out. If pipes had included that “intent” was determined to have been carried out in his post he would have correct, but he did not. Drop Mic.

    I think it’s time to let it go. It doesn’t matter if anyone agrees with you or not. Anyone that cares has made their stance known and neither side is changing. Time to move on.

    #382 1 year ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    [picks up mic]
    Would Judge PinRob be swayed if we shift the hypo a bit and the borrower was reminded several times that the item was overdue, but still failed to return it?
    [returns mic to mic stand]

    I'm still trying to figure out how I can get Judge PinRob to loan me a pin.

    #383 1 year ago
    Quoted from gdonovan:

    I'm still trying to figure out how I can get Judge PinRob to loan me a pin.

    No kidding. It's a sweet deal because you never have to return it.

    #384 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    According to pipes post #355 one is guilty of stealing something loaned them without any proof of “intent”. So if one goes to pipes court and forgot to return a loaned item, well that doesn’t matter, congratulations you are going to be convicted of a crime. Glad pipes isn’t a real judge. One would also hope he isn’t on a jury if needed to deliberate the case. I’m glad there are real courts to determine if criminal activity has been carried out. If pipes had included that “intent” was determined to have been carried out in his post he would have correct, but he did not. Drop Mic.

    Please loan me $100k.

    #385 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinballManiac40:

    Please loan me $100k.

    Do you “intend” on returning it.

    #386 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    Do you “intend” on returning it.

    Yes, it's in his will.

    #387 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    Do you “intend” on returning it.

    Oh ya, for sure, I’ll return it as soon as I’m done. Don’t worry you’ll get it back. My word is my bond.

    #388 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinRob:

    Do you “intend” on returning it.

    It was implied. [Fingers crossed]

    -1
    #389 1 year ago

    Issue resolved. Now everyone knows that if you send Mirco a playfield, he keeps it and you get a repro in return.

    Let’s shut it down.

    #390 1 year ago
    Quoted from jahbarron:

    Issue resolved. Now everyone knows that if you send Mirco a playfield, he keeps it and you get a repro in return.
    Let’s shut it down.

    There’s no reason to shut the thread down, Mirco has said he was going to return the items in January, so the thread should be shut down after that’s happened

    2 weeks later
    #391 1 year ago

    Anyone get their shit back yet?

    #392 1 year ago
    Quoted from dirkdiggler:

    Anyone get their shit back yet?

    I was wondering the same but it may take longer because I think it's coming from across the pond correct?

    #393 1 year ago

    I haven't heard from Mirco since Christmas Eve. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

    #394 1 year ago
    Quoted from RWH:

    I was wondering the same but it may take longer because I think it's coming from across the pond correct?

    shipping is only a few days

    #395 1 year ago

    If mirco is honest then some of you should already have tracking information and pictures of delivery to post office

    #396 1 year ago

    He ships out Fed Express, should not be long.

    17
    #397 1 year ago
    Quoted from Malibu-SS:

    I have emailed Mirco this morning about my playfields............if he does not respond by the end of the day I will tell my story

    I will finish this up.
    My deal with Mirco was I supply him with a playfield(which he would keep) and he would send me a new one,and cover all costs(shipping etc)

    I sent him a CFTBL and a Taxi.Both playfields had wear but I am sure they could be restored.
    I was actually going to have the CFTBL restored and the Taxi I had because I already did a swap on mine.

    Because I already had a new Taxi playfield,Mirco said I could pick any playfield that I wanted,I chose an AFM
    The process was long(around 18 months),which I expected,and yes sometimes Mirco is hard to get a hold of,but I am sure he is busy with work,life etc

    On Dec 23 I sent him my shipping info and on Jan 2 2020 I recieved my beautiful CFTBL and AFM playfields

    Thank you Mirco

    Rick

    #398 1 year ago
    Quoted from Crispin:

    I haven't heard from Mirco since Christmas Eve. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

    You wrote him?

    #399 1 year ago
    Quoted from PinLen83:

    You wrote him?

    Not yet Len I was trying to show restraint.

    1 month later
    #400 1 year ago

    Anything yet guys ?
    I sent Peter a Haunted House playfield about a year ago. He paid for the shipping and within 6 mnths received a new repro HH playfield. Never expected the old one back. Peter was always promp to reply during the entire process and couldnt have gone any smoother. I also purchased a Getaway playfield from him with the same results.
    Reqlly hoping this has been resolved.

    There are 409 posts in this topic. You are on page 8 of 9.

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