I see the holidays brings out the best in people, including the Canadian's....

If Someone deprives you of your property is a crime. If they are willfully keeping it from you is a crime.

Stern boards are sent to Rockford Silk Screen Process for digital printing, and then are sent to an automotive clear coating supplier in Crystal Lake, IL. Mirco does not make Stern playfields. I am not sure if Stern still usees them for some volume, but they used to have the Fun Company in Wisconsin make their boards and cabinets, but are doing much, if not all the wood routing and insert placement on the PFs in their own factory. It is just coincidental that both companies had suppliers that had coating issues at the same time.

If someone driving cuts into your lane it’s a crime. If you walk against the traffic light it’s a crime.

You send in property willingly to an unknown person you’re taking a risk. I’ve lost this way myself, 2 pf’s AND an expensive mod I bought. Along with full pin payments and money gone. ($5500).

Not defending anyone, that’s for damn sure, and appreciate the heads up on this, really do. Crime committed? Doubt it. Poor business? Definitely. But there was always risk!

I find very hard to believe someone would agree to lend someone a highly valued piece for reproduction and then agree to have the borrower keep the original piece. The lender is actually paying more to receive a copy since their rare original is probably worth more.

That's like asking someone for a Picasso so they can reproduce it as a lithography. The original owner gets a fresh lithography and the borrower keeps the original Picasso. It makes no sense. I send you a $500+ playfield and then you send me back a $500+ playfield but keep the original item that made you lots of $$$$ in the first place. Just really odd business model.

Less focus on terminology, and more focusing on the problem at hand.

My guy....you’re not letting go of the fact that YOU fucked up. Instead, you’re pointing fingers (by stating you haven’t done anything beyond these set agreements). Clearly, YOU HAVE! Why don’t you just apologize, get to packin his stuff up, and move on? Do you even have his stuff? Why do I have a feeling you don’t? You think it’s alright that you ghosted dozens of people?

Man....I can’t comprehend what’s going on here. Mind blowing!!!

It’s alright though. None of this is going to die. More people are going to come forward (before or after they get their property back).

It’s already cost you more than you can possibly fathom at the moment. Like an STD from an old Gf, You’ll continue to feel the heat of this thread For years to come.

@mitch...seriously??? Mirco posts a very positive message and that’s all you can do is find negativity. Give Mirco a chance to make this right. He wasn’t dishonest, a thief, criminal, etc. and does not need to return these items as that was not part of the trade deal. He is now offering to do this out of shear goodness other than the verbal agreement he had with @crispin. You started this witch hunt and got the Pinside mob going with all their pitchforks out with very little factual information and clearly without the ability to read. You ignored a very simple trade offer that was consistent and repeated in multiple posts by Mirco. This thread was on the verge of possibly destroying a business for no good reason. Everything you did in this thread including the options in your poll were biased and absurd. And then, without missing a beat, you feel the need to stir the pot again about a completely separate issue, the clearcoat pooling, which this thread was never about! Assuming Mirco makes good on their most recent post, I am going to consider this issue closed. The Mirco bashing, which was unjustified and never needed to happen in the first place, should now stop. This thread has seen it all: threats against Mirco, arrests, the FBI, credit card fraud, lawsuits, international criminal law, assault with a pipe wrench, death by fire, etc!!! The only good thing this thread did was maybe give Mirco a good swift kick in the ass to work at a more efficient pace and complete each project in a more timely manner. So maybe for Mirco and the pinball community this will have been worth it in the long run...time will tell.

I have always said I will send them back. So no news or any changes in here. But not everyone did understand that...no idea why...

Regards,
Mirco

Mirco made a repro play field. With regards to Quicksilver, it is a beautiful play field.

Why on earth would the original/donor play field need to be kept? What useful purpose can it serve after the repro is produced?

That’s good to know. All those posters who said that the deal was for mirco to keep the original playfield should take note.

I hope we've all learned something from this experience.
-mof

Whoever wants their stuff/items back speak up now in this thread

I spoke up in a PM as he requested.

I can only assume Mirco is referencing his deal with @crispin. If Mirco is saying that he said this from the beginning regarding all trade offers, then Mirco is a liar, cannot be trusted, and I am wrong about him because he posted multiple times that he would keep the original. These were Mirco’s own words and would definitely be a twist if he denied them! Mirco...can you please clarify???

No, no you haven’t!

This is what I was referencing in post #321.

Mirco please explain.

One minute your on Micro's side against Pinsiders next minute your on Pinsiders side against Micro's.

Well, doing the right thing after all other options are exhausted....your and your company's reputation is worth 100x more than a PF.

There was a bunch of different things said, all that matters is he’s willing to admit he is sending back the items and then following through with the promise. Hopefully the lenders will get the items back in January as stated and we are not back here in February. I do think since Mirco has now said he will send back the items we should wait to see if he sends them before anymore judgement is passed down on him. Good on you for admitting your going to make it right!

I am on the side of who I feel is right...up until Mirco’s latest post I felt he did nothing wrong and the majority of Pinsiders were in the wrong. I need clarification from Mirco on what he meant in his latest post. If he flip flops on his own words then yes...I was clearly wrong about him. I’m waiting on a clarification from Mirco if he was just referring to his deal with @crispin...

It’s more than just crispin, we know of at least 6 that leant and we’re supposed to have their items returned. This is what we’ve been discussing all along.

I get that it’s more than just crispin...he’s the only one that detailed his agreement...so that’s all I could go by. The point in my past couple posts is about what Mirco just said. If he’s saying he said all along that people would get their playfields back that’s total bs. As recently as this thread Mirco explained that the terms of the trade deal were that he keeps the originals! If he’s saying something different now...wow. That’s why I’m thinking/hoping Mirco just meant his deal with crispin where he agreed to return the original to him and not his general trade offer. This was detailed in the communications shared by crispin. If Mirco flip flops within this thread alone on what they said, he clearly can’t be trusted and I’m an idiot for backing him and his words.

/thread

He just posted earlier i'm sure he sees what is going on and this thread is really heating up.

It doesn’t really matter, this was never about a witch-hunt, Mirco has stated he will return the items, all that’s left is for him to do that. Chris and the others would like an email with a eta on when the shipment will leave and a tracking number. Thank you Mirco for having integrity and making it right. Your words are great please make sure your actions are also. Others have said he’s made good on manufacturing issues so there’s no need for any of that in this thread.

I guess it wouldn’t matter in the end. I do think he was referring to what he worked out with crispin and in that case my position thru this entire thread will remain the same. If not however, it sure as hell would bother me that I was backing someone that is now saying the complete opposite of what they posted in multiple threads.

Yes I only wanted to share my story with the community and force him to respond to me, not destroy a reputation. Thank you Mirco for letting me know they'll be returned. There were a number of other people that emailed me and shared their stories and I'm glad they will be made whole. Thank you all for your support, the personal pm's and understanding. Hope everyone enjoys the holidays with their families playing pinball!

I apologize, I have no skin in the game, but need to chime in.

Micro - when some asks you months on end (and multiple times) to send their playfield back - SEND IT BACK.

No one is ever "too busy" for anything. You make the time or you don't.

It's lazy that you can't take 10-15 minutes out of your day to ship something to someone; especially when they were the ones who did YOU the favor.

No, it’s a language barrier!!!

::rolls eyes::

But I wouldn't' need to park there because I won't be buying anything from him... and I'm not required by law to park there.

You should change the Thread Title. A "He said She said" with a language barrier. Hope everybody gets their stuff.

Except it's multiple people against 1 person's word. Who also has been ignoring multiple pinsiders who were kind enough to lend out property to help the hobby in general.

But he already has flip flopped as he told @crispin the deal was to keep the original in one of the later emails Mirco sent @crispin.

-“Special deal” in this thread
-Keep the original playfield late in the email chain even though it was stated a few times early on that @crispin expected the original back
-Obviously returning it in January once I’m done with it.

I’m glad he has stated he will return, but there is no questions he has flip flopped on that decision.
-

Or at the very least... been very unclear in his dialog here. It's really not that hard to address specific demands point by point... He goes on about blurring the 'usual' with this case, etc. He didn't help himself much...

*If* pinsiders have voted honestly, Mirco should be looking at how his customer base is viewing this thread, his actions, and his future actions and clarity of communication, and the impact it will/could have on his business.

Meh.
IF the "ouch... my eyes"stadium guy can continue to hawk his wares here on Pinside given how he's been doing business... I'm sure Micro will still be here in 5years (assuming the pin-economy says up). Apparently he's so busy; treating people like crap and not responding to their emails is a fair business practice.

Actually; that's not really fair; I haven't heard that MrBrightLights has the same problem... so maybe I just convinced myself he's one of the good guys?! I'm so confused.

This is literally one of the dumbest things I have ever read on Pinside.

The dumbest - Really?

If you willingly handed over something to someone- that’s not stealing. True

You gave them the item (albeit on loan) of your own free will. True

Stealing - is taking something without the owner’s consent. True

All you can do really is ask for it back - repeatedly if necessary as shown here. Ask a local lawyer or law enforcement officer for the true answer according to where you live. Tell them when asking that this about a pinball playfield and a set of pinball plastics.

A criminal charge of theft (or larceny) generally requires the specific intent to permanently deprive another individual of his or her property.
Thus, not returning borrowed items is still theft.

BTW remind me not to borrow you ever anything, since you seem the opinion it is now yours to keep.

It is hard to imagine that you are serious or just being an alternative advocate.

If you provide something to someone on the basis it will be returned and after time and several reminders it has not been returned what that constitutes seems fairly clear.

Where did I ever give the opinion that if you borrow something it is now yours to keep? Not what I said whatsoever.

Come on to my car lot and I'll put a dealer tag on so you can go take a test drive. I'll let you drive my car. But if you don't bring it back you will be getting a visit from the Police because you have stolen my property because you are out for a test drive only.

Cargument - are you willingly handing your car over to someone as a loan? False - You are letting them take it for a brief test drive to be returned when the test drive is over - True.

Micro has gone about the issue at hand here very poorly, but honestly is he really “Stealing playfields and plastics” ?