This is a joke right?

How do you figure T7? Mirco knew the whole time I had expected my playfield and plastic set back. Where in the email chain does he mention that I will not be getting them back before the response you just posted? When we discussed the different color greens on my playfield before I sent it I told him I wanted both playfields back at the same time for when I repopulated as a reference.

Read the sentence. He admits telling me that I can have my playfield back after he used it for reference. He also told me they would be done by April. When I saw other pinsiders receiving their playfields weeks before I even received anything I asked if he was done with both. It wasn't until this response after the repro was sent that he states the deal was my playfield for his repro which he knows was not the case. Why did he not correct me in all the previous emails where I was asking for my stuff back?

Oh by the way when issues popped up and I emailed Mirco letting him know that there wasn't a hole drilled for the coil to kickout to the shooter lane under the apron he didn't answer me. When I asked about his pooling clear problem and what precautions I should take he ignored that one too.

Back to the original statement, mirco knows he’s supposed to return the property and he should do so.

Let's be honest. If he wasn't apparently the ONLY game in town for what he does *nobody* would deal with him.

Seems secretive and unresponsive. You will NEVER get a reply from him about the pooling and chipping issue that spoiled so many POTC and WWonka's. And apparently many of his repro's.

I guess it's understandable. Since his knee jerk reaction is to always threaten legal action he probably figures he'll be on the receiving end if he utters even one word about his shoddy CC "quality control".

Which is a shame as pinball people rarely speak of going that route unless they've been screwed over for an *entire machine*.

-

From the emails you posted, Mirco never said you would or wouldn't be getting the original back - until the email I referenced on 9/11. You mentioned getting both playfields back a couple times. The disingenuous part is when you said that Mirco told you to be happy with what you got - he did not say anything like that.

You just twisted things again here. Mirco didn't "admit" telling you that you can have your playfield back. What he said, as I posted (and you posted in your emails) was:

You already got the replacement for the sent in playfield. The deal is I keep the original, you get the new one. Yes, you can have the other (your original) but I told you I might need it for a while if issues pop up. The plastic set is not in the work schedule for the next few weeks. Sorry for that.

I'm only trying to be a voice of reason, because people twist things when they are upset - and then things look much worse than they are. Mirco said he would return your original playfield in a gesture of goodwill even though he wasn't required to by the original deal (that's what his sentence says in your email). Instead you re-interpreted this as an admission that he had done something wrong and lied. All my understanding of the situation is from your own emails that you posted btw.

in Europe if there is an agreement made its legally enforceable; whether in person with a handshake, written in a formal document or posted on a forum.

Wow, lots of stuff here.

If it may help here is my experience so far; ordered several stuff directly to Mirco , only had an issue once when a mini pf arrived damaged (obviously during transport as I found the missing chip in the box) => got a new one free of charge from him within a week.

Hey voice of reason I asked for my playfields for months in advance of the September 11th email. Mirco would have told me in any of the responses to those emails that I wasn't to expect my donor back if that was the deal. Instead after months of me trying to find out when I could expect my playfields back and noticing paying customers were receiving their playfields he chose to just not respond anymore. No. Instead he told me what the deal was AFTER he mailed out the repro , wiping his hands of the whole situation because I didn't hear from him again until someone was nice enough to start a thread I should have. At anytime during the year in any of his responses he would have corrected me if this wasn't the case. Never mind my plastics which he has totally disregarded. Am I emotional? It's been over a year how would you feel T?

Hi Mirco, hope all is well on your end. I'm checking in on the Quicksilver project and when I can plan on them arriving? March 26 2019
Hi Mirco, hope you enjoyed your vacation. I'm checking in on the Quicksilver project and hoping they should be shipping soon. May 6 2019
When should I expect my playfields and plastics to ship back so I can make sure I'm home that day? Can you send me a tracking # so I can see their progress? May 31 2019
Hi Mirco, hope you enjoyed your vacation. I didn’t want to hit you up on your 1st day back. I still haven’t received anything from your company since I communicated with you before you went away. Would really appreciate if you could send out at least one of the Quicksilver playfields, though both would be great. July 31 2019
Hi Mirco, hope you’re feeling better and are able to finally get my playfields out in the mail. Aug 13 2019

You just twisted things again here. Mirco didn't "admit" telling you that you can have your playfield back. What he said, as I posted (and you posted in your emails) was:

You already got the replacement for the sent in playfield. The deal is I keep the original, you get the new one. Yes, you can have the other (your original) but I told you I might need it for a while if issues pop up. The plastic set is not in the work schedule for the next few weeks. Sorry for that.

What part of "I told you" do you not understand? It was understood by both of us that I would be getting my playfields back. How did I twist that?

So, Mirco, highclassplayfields, your friends or supporters come to the thread and defend your crappy behavior , bravo! Have some integrity and return the property. You’ve now alienated at least some percentage of your customer base. The longer this goes on the bigger and brighter the fire burns, are you really that egotistical?

You asked when you could expect the playfields, and he told you he was running late. Then he DID send you the new playfield in response to the 8/13 email. I read the emails, and you are twisting what happened to make Mirco look worse than reality. Everyone else can read the same and come to their own conclusion. It looks to me like he was planning (and still is) to send you your original back after he didn't need it for issues. He NEVER said he wouldn't send it back - to the contrary, he said he will send it back. He only said you weren't entitled to it by the original deal, but he would send it back when he didn't need it for issues.

You knew from the beginning it was going to take over 6 months + time for issues, and it went longer. You're communications indicate you were "happy/understanding" thru August - then in Sept. you got frustrated with the delays and got irate. Mirco is late (by like 3 months, not a year), and should send you your used stuff back - no question. But this thread initially looked like you never received anything, and that you had been told to pound sand - which is not what the emails show.

I'm not defending Mirco's behavior - I just read the emails and think a different story is being told than the emails clearly show.
Mirco is very late, and doesn't always communicate well. But that's all the emails show IMO.

In the emails that Crispin posted, Mirco never refused to send them back. To the contrary he said he would send them back. Did you read the emails?

Yes he said it but didn’t do it, he did say he would send it back then Ghosted Chris, herein lies the issue. I can say I will do anything I want, it’s my actions and integrity that matter

T7 the emails clearly show that I was under the impression as well as Mirco I would be getting the playfields back. The emails were provided because others said that this was not my original deal with him. Mirco doesn't communicate well is an understatement. In fact Mirco just stopped communicating. How long could it have taken him to scan the freaking plastics and return thpose? How is it that others feel the same way as I do thinking they will never get their playfields back? I'm not the longest case someone else here has been waiting over 13 months.

Sounds to me like Mirco has the same over promise and take too long to deliver problem a lot of hobbyist manufacturers have. I also think perhaps there's a minor language barrier thing going on... perhaps he said things differently in person, I don't know anybody involved, but he seems to have pretty clearly said on posts on the forum that he keeps the original. It seems like he made an exception for this playfield (quicksilver) because it had been cleared and was in very nice shape, so of course he agreed to send it back (the owner obviously didn't intend to trade it in for only a new one).

He just hasn't yet, which is consistent with how he obviously gives people dates and doesn't meet them over and over again. He should do what he can to send it back a.s.a.p.

Then like someone else mentioned, he probably has 1500 playfields laying around and this just isn't a very big deal to him, to the owner it's a huge deal, to Mirco he doesn't get too concerned.

He's probably told others that it would be no problem to send them their original back then can't remember who he told what and his default is what he's stated on his search posts, that he keeps the original. Hope everybody gets their stuff back.

He said he needed to keep it longer in case issues come up, and THEN he would return it. <<<again - in the email <<<
You make it sound like he said he would return it immediately, and then he didn't.

Ghosting Chris was not cool, but the emails he didn't respond to were aggressive enough that quite a few people would choose to not respond.

He started getting angry because of the poor treatment he received from a person he was trying to help, it’s called frustration, since your so vocal about it why don’t you tell us what you’ve sent Mirco and how it was sent back to you. I bet the answer is you haven’t sent him anything, so you have no idea how it feels to have your possessions held hostage. The fear as your getting treated poorly that if you might let others know what may happen to them you’ll have no chance at ever regaining your property. At this point there’s nothing for Chris or the others to loose, we are now trying to save others from becoming victims of Mirco and highclassplayfields

He stopped communicating after your emails got irate. It's still not cool, and yes he's been super slow - and he thinks he still needs the original longer for "possible issues". He totally should return your playfield and plastics soon. I don't think what he *actually* did deserves this thread or mob mentality. You're acting like you didn't get anything - you got a New Playfield, and he should/better return you old stuff - but it's been 3 months since you said "send them back" - not a year.

This thread isn’t going away and unfortunately for many of us that restore games and need the items exposing this behavior doesn’t help our cause. Others need to know there is a a risk to helping Mirco. Collectors beware!

No T7 its been 8 months since I was told I would be getting them back in April. It's been 3 months since I demanded them back.

I think a lot of the "being treated poorly" comes down to perception and expectations. There is also a huge language and cultural barrier here. Viewing his replies through US lenses will give a much more negative impression. As a result I think that is unsettling to the folks stateside and sort of amps up or escalates how they respond.

To me he just comes off as being very, well, German. It's very matter of fact. Some here have referred to it as cold and rigid. He's definitely not a SoCal guy. He had an arrangement and now folks are trying to pull out of that arrangement. Some of that has to do with production delays on his end. As I stated above, if you miss deadlines and a person asks for their property back, just send it back.

And I totally get being fed up waiting. I had sent some rare parts off to be plated by a company I will not name, seven months later I still didn't have them. I finally asked for them back. It sucks that some of you are still waiting for your stuff. I do hope this gets resolved for everyone's sake.

I didn't say any different and I agree. Mirco initially said it would take around 6 months, then repeatedly said it would be soon. As I said you didn't demand it back until September, after you received the new playfield.

It sucks that he's having all these delays, and he's slow and keeps saying it will be soon, and has poor communications.
But he didn't commit a big criminal act and doesn't deserve to have his business ruined - which seemed to be the direction of this thread.

The list of bad people in this hobby continues to grow.

He responded here and called Chris a liar, then when Chris said he was going to share proof he came back in the thread and admitted he didn’t have one blanket deal with everyone, because he knows the others have proof, I’m sure he’s been I contact with the others and has convinced them to continue with him, and not post the proof. Keep defending the actions, this thread was started by Mitch, obviously he knows others first hand that are having the same issues, but once again out of fear of losing the chance to ever get back their property they are silent. T7 what have you sent to Mirco, do you have anything your willing to donate to Mirco? Talk the talk, walk the walk!

I have seen many of Crispin 's for sale ads in the past, and it is apparent he is a stand up guy with integrity and does good by those who buy his games. I will not buy anything from Mirco for his behavior. No one would send in a nice original without expecting it back. That is just ludicrous. Almost as much as everyone defending this action and attacking those who are getting screwed by Mirco.

7 people have voted in the "hostage" group so far -- it would be interesting to hear stories from some others.

2 person have voted, "I am not a hostage, I sent stuff in and didn't expect my stuff back"...

@Mitch, perhaps in the first post, can we ask you to keep an updated list of "hostages", and how long they've been waiting... (as well as the non-hostages -- if they declare who they are)

-mof

Good news for you, Mirco has free parking at his offices and plant.

Thanks for the kind words Tomass.

That’s right, Chris has integrity, plus he sent in his items for quicksilver reproductions, so how many of you out there were able to restore your quicksilvers? Chris took the risk and sent in his personal prized possessions to help others in the community, Chris has a second quicksilver that needed a playfield so he sent in his collector quality playfield in hopes he could get another so that he could save the DONOR game.

For T7 that on the defense of these actions and that your so worried about ruined a business because of a misunderstanding it seems there’s about a dozen misunderstandings. If Mirco would have just posted from the beginning that everyone that was due their items he would send out ASAP this wouldn’t have made it past that post, it probably would have been a very pro Mirco thread, instead he attacks his victims by calling them liars.

There is no such thing as an NCIC warrant. NCIC stands for National Crime Information Center. Any jurisdictional warrant can be entered into their database...federal, local, etc. They maintain a database for law enforcement to go check criminal history and if there are any outstanding warrants. I think you were referring to an international warrant, and no jurisdiction would extradite for something as frivolous as a box of missing playfields. Nor would the FBI or US Attorney look at anything international that wasnt into the tens of millions of dollars in damages. They wont look at anything local under a million.
The sad truth is, there would be no real legal remedy. This is the risk we take doing business outside of the country. The only effective course of action is open forum.

The only thing that’s was ever asked for was the return of property, nothing else, no lawsuit, no arrest , no threatening harm , just be a man of integrity and return the items you are holding, and no, I don’t thinks its fair to make the property owners pay shipping.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mirco-exclusive-classic-stern-parts-manufacturer/

Just a reminder of what other people have experienced.

-mof

It is unbelievable to me how the majority of Pinsiders in this thread are unable to read and comprehend the simple trade deal offered by Mirco...

It is crystal clear...

MIRCO KEEPS THE ORIGINAL PLAYFIELD IN EXCHANGE FOR A REPRO PLAYFIELD!!!

Everyone that is currently ruining Mirco’s reputation please read the terms of the deal in the threads that I attached in previous posts...it’s black and white!

And still...NOT ONE Pinsider can show anything from Mirco that shows a different agreement other than the one above.

Good defense, actually Mirco posted in this thread that he indeed had other arrangements, it was not a blanket arrangement, some have said it was verbal, or they were contacted through other means and never saw that thread, so, since the victims have shown proof of what Mirco says in private emails that he’s contesting can’t be posted and in fact has threatened with a lawsuit, why don’t you ask Mirco to show proof here that an agreement was so signed or agreed to by email or other means by the contributors of personal property.
Where’s your proof? What’s unbelievable is that you are asking for proof but have none showing what was agreed to, a public post asking for items? I contend that Mirco had trouble getting quality items from that original post and made better deals to get better items.

The proof is in the threads that I attached in previous posts where Mirco initially makes the trade offer. He clearly outlines the details of the offer, which clearly states Mirco keeps the original. No one forced anyone to take Mirco up on their offer. If they didn’t like the offer why did they participate in the first place? Seems like these “victims” are either trying to pull a fast one by getting a new repro and their original back or they just didn’t understand the agreement that Mirco clearly laid out. Either way, Mirco should not return the original playfields as that was not the agreement. Did YOU read the original offer that was posted in multiple threads by Mirco, or are you just jumping on the bandwagon with the mob???

And a side note...

I honestly don’t like the trade deal that Mirco offered...I don’t think it’s terrible...but I would never have agreed to those terms as I would have wanted the new repro for helping out along with my original playfield back. BUT THIS IS NOT WHAT MIRCO OFFERED!

The fbi is very serious when it comes to pinball.

And if you go back and look at that original post by Mirco, Quicksilver wasn’t even on the list of playfields he was looking for, so it seems obvious to me that he definitely made deals outside of that original post. Also in that original post there was at least one person questioning why would someone donate an original nos playfield to get back a reproduction playfield, which make total sense. That probably scared a lot of people from sharing which is why I think Mirco changed the terms of the original deal, and told people they would get the originals returned to them.

So show the part of that original thread where Chrispin says yes to the offer, you can’t because he didn’t. Mirco made an offer in that thread for different titles, not quicksilver, and now your just being obtuse!

I truly believe this is a case of people getting excited about a free new playfield and made assumptions or didn’t understand the agreement in regards to their original.

@crispin was NEVER told he isn’t getting his original back. He got his new playfield and Mirco clearly told him that he needs to hold onto it longer in case there are issues before he returns it. @crispin seemed to get impatient and lost his cool.

wrb you can truly believe whatever you want. I truly believe I was polite with all of my emails even while my questions went unanswered and responses that have me waiting for weeks and then no response at all. So was it me telling Mirco he's leaving me with my thumb up my ass or was it typing in caps that you consider losing my cool? Even when typing in all caps to return my property I prefaced it with Please. Don't tell me I didn't understand what my deal was.

Mirco it’s been 2 more weeks and I haven’t heard anything from you. You can easily have scanned them in a day or two yet I sit here with my thumb up my ass. You can at least respond to an email. When I 1st emailed you to ask about your free playfield offer for donating mine you told me I can expect the playfield and plastics back at the end of April. I have been more than patient waiting over the whole summer as I check everyday to no avail. I even offered to accept another repro in place of the original if you needed to keep it longer and not a peep from you. PLEASE SEND MY QUICKSILVER PLAYFIELD AND PLASTIC SET BACK TO ME NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You cost me a second sale while waiting for you to keep your word. I’m at the point where I’m sorry I tried to help the community.

I truly believe people who are not involved directly should be very skeptical of their true beliefs around this.
Gimme a break.
-mof

I’m still waiting on ANY Pinsider to provide something from Mirco that shows that their deal was different than what Mirco offered in the threads.

@crispin, if your agreement was verbal that’s unfortunate, but I will take you at your word. Maybe I misunderstood something somewhere along the way, but isn’t it possible your playfield may still be returned when he is done with it?

Yes wrb it was disconcerting for me to receive an email from him on Sept 11th stating that I will get it back even though I was not entitled to it when he full well knew I was expecting it back. The last few emails with him where me trying to get the plastics back so I could finish the restore with the repro that he sent. I found it totally unacceptable that 5 months after I was told they 'd be done they still weren't even scanned.

Crispin I truly hope you get everything back at some point. The one thing I definitely agree with in this thread is that Mirco is very SLOW in making repro parts...that’s not good business.