I understand the value of a local sale but taking money and knowing money was paid to shipper and then backing out is a chicken shit move.

I've been beaten to the punch a couple times because of a local sale, but never had money in escrow for it! Sounds like jetmechinnc is a relatively new pinside member and maybe a douchebag.

I think this behavior should be covered by the pinside code of contact. Pull this crap and your account is closed.

Apologies from my state.

Yes, but sometimes there are 2 sides to the story and we only hear one. It would be too difficult to moderate. I am not doubting the story here, but it would be a hard policy to implement.

I too would like to hear from jetmechinnc and his side of the story.

I agree that this kind of behavior is not tolerable. OP, could you please contact me and possibly forward some details about the transaction (e.g. screenshots of communication)? I will then revoke Marketplace posting access for this Pinsider.

Yes, me too.

Shame so many have become willing to sacrifice the value of a handshake, or of ones word to another without the slightest concern for how their actions may be perceived by others.

Not that this will help the immediate matter, I do not know both sides, and do hope you are able to negotiate the return of funds for the shipping contract, but here is a small piece of advice in regards to purchasing machines from ANY source from a seasoned buyer.

Once an agreement is reached, and before ANY money is secured or placed in escrow, a full bill of sale of invoice should be generated.
There was no mention of this aspect.
A "deal" is not a handshake in today's world, and nothing should be assumed.
Escrow funds transfer is not an invoice bill of sale.
"No contract invoice bill of sale = no deal"
Anybody that believes otherwise, is not an informed consumer.

This protects the buyer as well as the seller, and can be used in any court of law as a binding contract as evidence.
It makes sellers think twice about business practices, even if under a private sale.
This also makes buyers equally responsible.
Another side effect is there can be no arguments for "buyers/sellers remorse" problems, which happens more than people can possibly realize.

I have had to use this leverage several times during my collecting career.
I have had sellers want to buy their own game BACK, "just because", even after the game was purchased, deal completed, cash received, removed and relocated.
Invoice was hand, and I stated, politely, no.

"Do not weld the pinball sales invoice as sword, but as a shield."
- TBK

Good fortune.

Good morning,

I canceled the transaction due to a few reasons. First, emails with Pokerjake never included his real name or phone number. This bothered me a bit, potential scam maybe? After asking him if he wanted other info on the pinball, he said no, that he trusted me. This marks good faith/character on his part, but made me a bit concerned since I would want the most info on anything I am buying that is used, especially if it costs a lot of money.

Per escrow.com, the funds should have been secured via paypal in 24 hours from Wednesday. After contacting them Friday on the phone as well as Sunday via their web chat , they said they were still trying to verify the funds/person sending the money. This made me nervous. Since the money was never secured, either party was able to cancel the transaction per Escrow.com at that time so I cancelled. Plus I was concerned about shipping the game from the get go, my fault, I should have never agreed to do that. Just caused a lot of stress of the unknown such as will I be paid, if the game is rejected, will I receive it back, etc. Talking with escrow.com, they said if the game was rejected, and not returned within 10 days, it could go mediation/court and cost each party $4K, again, this made me nervous since I would never be able to afford that.

Per escrow.com, his funds will be returned since no transaction had taken place because the funds were never secured. Shipping charges cannot be enforced because nothing was ever shipped. When I talked to the shipping company, I even told them a potential pickup date was depending on funds being secured so it may be cancelled all together based on that.

Jason

If you made a deal, you should have honored it...simple as that

So to sum this up, you cancelled a firm deal because you were nervous that he didn't ask more questions and it took longer to verify funds were available (probably due to a delay on the website), without even talking to PokerJake beforehand?

If you were that nervous, you shouldn't have agreed to the deal, let alone allow it to get to the point of escrow and shipping deposits. The point where you could back out honorably had long since passed in my opinion.

I will say it's good to see both sides weigh in here.

As the ping pong match continues, the ball goes back over to the OP...did the funds ever get pulled into escrow?

Regardless, even if they did, jetmechinnc you probably should have been much clearer about your steps and maybe just simply told the OP that you were uneasy and wanted to cancel the transaction. That's not much better, but still...

No real name or phone number AND funds not being cleared at the time the buyer said they would be is a huge flag. At that point the op did not live up to his end if he claimed they would be there. Basically, you sell something, and escrow says no verified funds there at the time the buyer said they would be. This would end the transaction for me as well. I could jus as well see seller starting the same post. If sending funds for a remote transaction, make sure the money arrives and is cleared by the time you say.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/how-to-not-get-ripped-off-in-pinball-vids-guide

Agreed. I kept trying reassure myself that this transaction will go smoothly, but just wasn't comfortable. As you stated, I should have just told the person no shipping, etc, just local pickup.

mmbtdwbc_6004 (resized).png

I never felt these things belonged on Pinside. Yes, if someone gets completely ripped off then we should know but deals like this where both sides probably had some fault... these should be taken up in private... and if necessary involve Robin in private as well but involving all of Pinside in not fair because we never ever get the full story... people start taking sides and forming their own opinions based on what little they actually know.

Good luck to you both...

How about an escrow through pinside? A flat fee of $30 (or whatever pinside thinks is appropriate) per deal and clear rules about the rights and obligations of buyer and seller, like who pays for return shipping if the game is rejected. That would eliminate a lot of frustration and uncertainty on both sides, save money on the transaction and generate a source of revenue for pinside.
I recently had an E-bay buyer bail out on me because he found a better deal or whatever. He claimed that the shipping cost of $740 was too high. When I called myself the shipping was $433. I told him and gave him the quote number but he made up a new lie to cover his initial lie. What did E-bay do about a non paying bidder? Absolutely nothing!

Escrow.com for $1400?

Looks like one side may be full of sh*t? Looks as if the OP did EVERYTHING he said he would.

It was a bullshit move on the sellers part.

As soon as anybody suggested "escrow.com" I'd move on to the next deal. Mo web sites mo problems.

Sure looks like he had your full name as well, just like on the screenshot.

did you read the ops' initial post?

Yep

Yep

This is EXACTLY why I only buy or sell machines being picked up in person. Too much risk for both parties involved once you get into shipping. I figure if I want something bad enough either make the drive to get it or wait to find one locally. And if I want to sell something at some point there will be a local buyer for it. You might have to take a little less or wait longer but everything will sell locally if you are not in a rush.

As far as debate here I have to agree seller was wrong and buyer did nothing wrong. Just my 2 cents!

Why not just ask for his name and phone number? Why sale the game out from under him locally until you felt comfortable that the funds were secure with escrow.com? This all looks like you did not hold your end of the bargain simply because you found a local sale after agreeing to another deal. A simple call to Michelle to wait on pickup is no big deal. If it's true that you suggested escrow.com in the first place then all that mediation information should have been researched by you before suggesting using escrow.com. Still don't know how it could cost you $4k on a $2000 deal tops. Most it could cost you is $2k...don't contest anything.

I have made several deals here to just have it turn into a "offer match". If you agree to X price don't text and say you got a better offer and say "how much will you pay".

I have also had several deals here where I paid upfront and they held it for a week or two then I drove 600 miles each way and everything was fine.

I have driven from NC to Green Bay, Chicago, New York City, New Jersey, Maryland, Ohio and several others just to avoid shipping and put "eyes" on the machine.

Sounds like the seller--maybe the buyer as well--are new to the rough and tumble pinball ownership world and this was just a case of not knowing what you are doing.

Doesn't sound like the seller did this with malice. I would chalk it up as a learning experience on both sides. If the buyer has lost any money in fees it would go a long way in karma points if the seller chipped in there.

THIS...

break a deal, SPIN THE WHEEL!!!

"Bust a deal, Face the wheel" but close enough.

lol I haven't seen that movie in a long time. my bad

aren't you the one who brought escrow.com into the mix in the first place? Why in god's name did you do this?

If you don't trust a guy enough to just send him money and get your game shipped, you shouldn't buy a game from him. This guideline will help in the future.

could be worse I guess.

Why doesn't the guy just sell you the game at this point? Clearly nobody was trying to scam anybody. Regardless they made about 5 million F14s and they are everywhere at better asking prices than this one so shouldn't be too hard to find one.

Maybe jetmechinnc will man up and pay the $65 in fees since he insisted on escrow, then backed out on you.

He should, no question. The pinside mob will never forgive you. Your name will be mud on here...there's an official pitchfork brigade. Seriously, paypal the guy $65 and be done with this.

i have been in this situation before. I cant pile on the seller too much for doing what he did based on all of the information at hand. I would pay any charges incurred by the buyer though

Out of curiosity, why are people down on escrow.com? I have used it 2 or 3 times without any issues, and I thought using an escrow site was recommended instead of just Paypal. Is there a better or cheaper escrow site out there?

Do you have a record of Escrow.com telling you the funds were not yet secured on Jan. 29? Buyer should be able to use that info and his PayPal confirmation that the echeck cleared to get Escrow.com to waive the fees.

Lesson learned for both of you. Get your agreement in writing. Bill of sale, contract. Communicate concerns when arranging a deal.
Sounds to me that Escrow.com is at fault if Paypal shows that payment cleared on the 25th and Escrow.com still didn't have it by the 29th. Probably no way to force either entity to fess up or pay though. Neither is a bank and for the most part they're unregulated. Read their terms and conditions to figure out your options. Negative press is probably the best you can do if they keep the $65.

Paypal probably likes to keep the money for a few days to rack up some interest because they are... never mind my Mom said if you cant saying anything nice, dont say anything at all.