Thanks for the heads up. Looks like that rubber piece needs to be bigger.

Also, you should let Stern know about this. I'm sure they would address this in the future. Would be an easy modification for them.

Even really short trips can be an issue. I just wrecked my ST just taking it downstairs. The T molding on old style back boxes easily withstood short moves. So for short moves I have to get in the habit of packing these new back boxes.

Sorry to see the damage happen on your machine. I appreciate the notice because I'm going to moving a pro this weekend and will make dang sure I put a piece of cardboard between the backbox and rails.

They should have done something similar to what JJP did on WOZ.

Rubber all the way across the front of the backbox.

Nothing better than a pillow prop between the head and glass. I prefer pink pillows myself.

mongolianlambpillow.jpg

Any time I move a pinball machine I always put a blanket or piece of cardboard between the head and the rails when I fold the head down. Better safe than sorry.

Did you even see what you did there... .................Joey

I always put a piece of cardboard between the two. Never has a problem after 40+ machines.

I have a large rectangle piece of foam I saved from a shipment that works like a charm.

Where did you get this?

No secret that Stern pins are cheaper quality and keep getting cheaper.. I am not surprised by this one bit. But hey, my deposit is down on the next 2 Stern pins no matter what! Particle board cabinet? Who cares! As long as it plays FAST and the code rocks!

Nope, But now I do. Thanks. LOL.

It's a shame that Stern added those rubber plugs for this reason yet they are so small they slip off of the rails. From the pic it looks like they have slipped off by a good bit. I wouldn't think the head would have that much side to side wiggle room.

If they are going to have to make the rubber pads that wide they might as well do what capguntrooper did and make something for the entire front section.

I have two sterns Met and TSPP. Build Quality from TSPP to Met dropped and over the last two years has dropped even further. If people like you continue to buy Stern "just because it's a Stern!!" They will continue to produce cheaper games. Stern needs to lift its game or they will be left behind. Market is changing now, there is more competition, offering better value for money! Slowly eating into Sterns market share.
I have four NIB coming 2015/16 from three manufacturers, not Stern. If Stern lift their game I might buy another one day!

Perhaps my sarcasm didn't translate well in my post.

Haha i get it! I'm just a slow Aussie!

One reason for the rub spots is the new head flexes easily side to side and if you put the head down and crank on a strap without paying attention and not keep the head centered it will move the head to one side and rub as it is metal on metal. Make sure head is centered on those rubber plugs and the strap is tight and it shouldn't move.

Anyone who doesn't know enough to put a towel or some padding between the backbox and the cabinet when they fold a head down is just learning the hard way. This isn't a new Stern problem. This is just something you have to do when transporting any brand of pin.

^^^ This ^^^

Lol the way Sterns are build now, they make Bally 6803 cabinets seem well built. Fuck, Data Easts were put together better than that, hell they even had stereo. Yes I've been drinking, but seriously how do you fuck up the alignment that badly?

I've done that... then used my floor mats for protection.

I believe the pics on the original post is of one of Trent's (Tilt Amusements) show games. He takes them from show to show and tourney to tourney. As long as they are playing nice I don't believe much care is given on a scratch here or there. I believe after a game has been on tour for a bit he sells them at a healthy discount.

I would guess that KISS has traveled more miles since it has been pulled out of the box than I have in the past few years.

Seeing scratches there might bother Trent personally though. I heard it was his suggestion to Stern to get those pads added in that area in the first place.

If you use a furniture pad or foam, never a problem.

Seriously. I've a few Bally/Williams that I had to replace the stick on t-molding AND side rails from heads slamming during shipment. Aint no different than 20 some odd years ago. You don't wrap it, you get damaged. (As like other things in life)

IMO newer Stern Games certainly seem to "wiggle" more when playing them, so I measured the leg thickness on our KISS (2015) & SM (2007) to confirm my suspicions - very sad to say my suspicions were correct.

Thinner Sheet Metal is being used in Stern's legs and probably the BB hinges - hence everything "wiggles" more in transit.
FYI, didn't measure the BB Hinges - but pretty sure they would follow suite for the legs thickness being reduced to save a few cent$.

SM leg thickness = 3.45mm (including powdercoat)

KISS leg thickness = 2.7mm (including powdercoat)

Pin moving Caveat - ALWAYS use cardboard, foam or something to cushion the Head when moving ANY Pin.

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This sounded ridiculous to me. So I measured the legs on all 14 of my sterns, all powder coated. They were all between 2.95 and 3.05mm using the digital calipers I use for 3D modeling measurements. I then measured my powder coated Bally / williams legs and they were 2.98mm.

The X factor is really how much pelvic thrusting you do, that is the most wear to the legs/standard bolts. I exert about 220lbs of forward thrust pressure with each exertion (thrust x 3-4 balls per game). I believe Ive impregnated my coin door more than a few times.

What is the expected life span of these new thinner Stern Legs?

New rubber "upsized" grommet plugs for the backbox holes are $1 at Home Depot or Lowes.
Pull the plugs and put in the new ones, as they are split o-ringed.
If you are careful during full upright playfield maintenance or transport this is not going to happen.
All you need is a hand terry towel for the added thickness.

Eliminating damage to cabinets during transport is accomplished with cardboard L-sleeves, hand tightening adjusted strap, thick cardboard on playfield glass for rails and backbox, and a blanket or two with rubber ring straps to pad additional edges.
Packaging for additional support for shipping (inside the box before wire strapped to a pallet) includes box support under the backbox, extension boxes to "fill the gap" between the lower cabinet and backbox, and shrink wrapping.
This process has been the same for years in transporting and shipping ANY pinball machines.

If you just use a "ratchet strap" backbox damage is common, especially to side rails.

I had a party a while back and my buddies and I were playing my pins. One of my friends had some serious hip action going while playing ST, the rest of us were standing a few feet behind just killing ourselves laughing! He REALLY looked like he was humping the pin! I seriously considered sterilizing the front of the machine afterwards.

Warning! Be careful when transporting ANY pinball machine.

Thats funny, I have a neighbor that pelvic bumps the game with every flip he makes, super awkward.

I would advise not to use foam if shipping long distance. The person I bought my METLE from used a thick foam bath mat between the backbox and cabinet. It compressed enough to allow rubbing on the side rails during transit.

image_(resized).jpeg

Oh no !!! A freakin' scratch on a new machine.........I want my money back.............

Markmon - I'll measure again to verify (when I have some spare time AFTER TPF ;-}) & I used digital calipers as well.
The KISS I measured is an LE - not that it should matter but you never know.

Did you measure your GOT legs as that's the only Spike System Game I see in your collection that would give an "apples to apples" comparison?

Maybe Stern's new PLASTIC cabinet protector/leg stand-offs just makes them seem more "wiggly" ?

B/W PC legs shouldn't apply IMO as they're all after market or done by their owners, either way every PC thickness varies by the painters style - I've never seen PC on any original B/W titles.

Whenever I ship machines I always save the Stern hard cardboard corner and long corner pieces. I put those on the rails and then put a thick cardboard box over the glass. On the head, I cut the cardboard pieces so they are right up against each other on each corner of the head then use the smaller thick cardboard corner pieces overlapping the two larger thick cardboard pieces then shrink wrap. Then, I add washcloths or similar towels to the corners so even if it's dinged hard it still should be OK. I learned to put a large, thick cardboard box on each side of the cabinet then shrink wrap blankets over the cardboard. I also put a large cardboard box over the entire front and put a hole where the plunger is.

Yea I measured also game of thrones in the above. I think the wiggle is at the point of the leg levelers nowhere else. The plastic offsets are plenty secure.

Do you have a horse in this race? I am guessing no. People start these kinds of threads to raise awareness on BS quality control issues. As soon as we stop talking about these types of things we start calling them ok and acceptable, and they are not. In this case Stern didn't use sufficient backbox padded feet for transporting. Those pads cost five cents or less. It wouldn't kill them to put an entire strip across the top like JJP has done.

Games are packed properly at the factory. I can attest to this from the last NIB game, molded foam, and cardboard.
There were no stress points.
These particular game(s) did not look to be factory packaged, but new owner from another new owner.
Additionally, it was noted that "damage occurred when the playfield was lifted" meaning maintenance position, not shipping. This looks to be the primary cause.

How a person packs a game (or care when rotating the playfield) for transport/maintenance or secondary market sales shipment are normally different, unless the owner kept all original materials.
The best brokers know how to ship used games properly, and do not need a crate.

This thread is not about Stern QC issues in this case.
Damage like these has happened since the beginning of pinball from careless operators or owners.

Damage in shipments do occur during shipment but most of the time is due to improper owner packaging, not forklifts through the sides of the box.

The most common problems on new Stern games are cabinet adhesive issues, specific to cosmetic cabinet problems.

Wow, I think he was joking. It would not kill Stern to do a lot of things but the fact is that they will do EVERYTHING they possibly can do to cheap out and squeeze another dime out of an already exorbitant profit. But thank God that Stern is still making pins.