(Topic ID: 88736)

Warm white LEDs for all inserts... No matter what insert color?

By 27dnast

9 years ago


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  • 26 posts
  • 16 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by RobT
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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    #1 9 years ago

    Does anyone do this?

    #2 9 years ago

    Nope. Takes about 75% or more of the point of doing LEDs in the first place out of the equation, why bother?

    Besides color matching one of the big benefits of LEDs to me is white inserts can actually be white, not dirty yellow.

    If you said just stick with warm whites for warm colors, cool whites for white and cool colors and call it a day? Sure, that sounds pretty reasonable. You'll still get true whites, good blues, etc. Still better off matching more IMHO, but that's a cheat if you're lazy.

    #3 9 years ago

    I do not. But many of the new STERN LE use all white . Cool white is what the LED boards are. Look pretty good . One note most if the inserts on the newer Sterns are colored clear plastic. If the pin has frosting or art work on insert I would color match. I have always like cool white better if you are going that route . But it depends on the machine. What are you planning to convert .

    #4 9 years ago

    I would stick with warm white under the plastics or behind the backglass. Cool white or colors in the inserts. The only exception for me would be lit saucers and star rollovers. Warm white or colors for those unless they are blue. If they are green/red/yellow/orange they will look sickly with cool white.

    #5 9 years ago

    Color matching is what I like to do also.

    #6 9 years ago

    In general this is what I've done:

    Insert color --> LED color

    Clear - Warm white or Cool/Natural white depending on game and other related colors, or customize to any color*
    Yellow, Amber, Orange - Warm White
    Red - Red
    Blue - Blue
    Green - Green

    * On Jokerz, in the card table, all of the surrounding colors are warm (ambers, oranges, reds), so the clear ones I used warm whites. But, in the center card faces by the ramp, I went with cool white to make them stand out as the locks for multi-ball).

    However, on F-14, the scheme is really Red white and blue, and putting warm whites in the clears made it look Red/Yellow/Blue, so I switched to use Cool/Natural whites which makes the whites pop as clean whites. It's all about honoring the related colors and scheme, and not going wild.

    Cool whites behind Yellows CAN work if you don't mind them sometimes having a tiny tiny tinge of green. I put cool whites behind the yellows on the stop lights on High Speed to make them really look like sun-yellow instead of a amber-yellow-orange. On other yellows I definitely stuck with warm whites behind them because they looked too green otherwise (without another green next to them)

    #7 9 years ago

    My Tron Pro actually looks better than my Tron LE because I could colour match the insert lights. Well, not overall of course, as it's a law of physics that nothing can look better than a Tron LE, but the inserts as a group look better.

    #8 9 years ago

    Depends on the game. I did only warm whites on my LotR and I think it looks fantastic. Other games I tend to color match most colors. I still use warm whites in yellow and orange inserts though no matter what. I think they just look better that way.

    #9 9 years ago
    Quoted from Gov:

    Depends on the game. I did only warm whites on my LotR and I think it looks fantastic. Other games I tend to color match most colors.

    I see no reason to do all warm white on the inserts in LOTR. What difference does it make that it's LOTR? Colored inserts are colored inserts, and will always look better when you match the LED to the insert. Yes, warm white is fine for yellow and clear inserts, but everything else would look better color matched.

    #10 9 years ago

    Not a big fan of color matching inserts overall. Cool whites are my preference on most games, regardless of insert color.

    Agree that it depends on the game though. On my Tron, I preferred vivid colors and chose to color match accordingly.

    #11 9 years ago
    Quoted from Toasterdog:

    Not a big fan of color matching inserts overall. Cool whites are my preference on most games, regardless of insert color.
    Agree that it depends on the game though. On my Tron, I preferred vivid colors and chose to color match accordingly.

    Why would you want to wash out the color of the insert instead of enhance it?

    #12 9 years ago

    HFK, may post a picture, he did his Simpsons Inserts in all Natural White......Ive done both...they both look fine, so Id say depends on the game, and individual taste,

    #13 9 years ago

    Interesting debate... I was expecting a resounding no...

    I guess it depends on how deep the colors of the inserts are. Obviously old, washed-out, inserts benefit from color match...

    #14 9 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I see no reason to do all warm white on the inserts in LOTR. What difference does it make that it's LOTR? Colored inserts are colored inserts, and will always look better when you match the LED to the insert. Yes, warm white is fine for yellow and clear inserts, but everything else would look better color matched.

    I think LotR makes sense because of the overall look of the game. I was just answering the OPs question with what I have done. Doesn't mean it is right or wrong. It is all subjective anyways, there is no right or wrong way to do it.

    #15 9 years ago

    If you are wanting to enhance the colors of the inserts themselves, then I usually do this:

    General rule: Theme plays a big part. Think of the overall difference between an older EM or warm-toned game like LOTR versus something like Tron. Warm is going to be a little more towards yellow/incandescent, cool is going to be more blue-ish/modern/space/futuristic and a brighter 'white' in general. So any colors that are more towards yellow on the color spectrum are going to benefit from warm bulbs, and any colors that are more towards blue on the color spectrum are going to benefit from cool bulbs.

    White insert: either cool white LED or warm white LED, depending on theme.

    Yellow/Orange insert: warm white LED. If you put a yellow bulb under a yellow insert, it actually seems to dull it down. White enhances and brightens the color. I have actually put pink bulbs under orange inserts with good success in making a rich amber color.

    Red insert: either warm white or red bulb.

    Blue insert: either blue or cool white

    Green: green bulb or you can put a warm/cool white here depending on theme. The tone of the machine's color scheme helps dicate which, since the warm is of course warmer and the cool is a more bright vibrant.

    If you are wanting to change colors, the same general guidelines apply but you've got to work with your color scale to figure out what makes what. I couldn't stand all the white/yellow/orange on my NGG, so I changed them up. I put green bulbs under all the DRIVE inserts even though some were yellow inserts, and made sure the bulb had enough power to overpower the yellow. It's an adult version of Light Bright for sure, but you quickly learn that you can't put purple under orange because it basically turns into dull brown, but purple under red or blue looks great. And for fun you can always put a color-changing bulb under a prominent white insert just to give it a little something different. I've got a color-changing under my "2" on the putt-out area so that it stands out when lit.

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    #16 9 years ago
    Quoted from Gov:

    I think LotR makes sense because of the overall look of the game. I was just answering the OPs question with what I have done. Doesn't mean it is right or wrong. It is all subjective anyways, there is no right or wrong way to do it.

    You are right.

    I guess to me it just seems that if you don't want to enhance the colors of the inserts on a pin like LOTR, then why bother using LEDs in the first place? Especially since LEDs will screw up the beautiful fading effects of the LOTR light show during attract mode.

    #17 9 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I guess to me it just seems that if you don't want to enhance the colors of the inserts on a pin like LOTR, then why bother using LEDs in the first place? Especially since LEDs will screw up the beautiful fading effects of the LOTR light show during attract mode.

    Mostly for brightness and consistency and less power usage. Mine is on location so that is a concern. The LED OCD fixes the fading issue.

    #18 9 years ago

    I've used all warm white and it looks pretty good.

    But you can "fix" faded blue and red inserts with color LEDs, so you have to take each case differently.

    On a totally crazy game like F14, cool whites in the clear inserts and colors in the others looks like a perfect fit - highly recommended.

    #19 9 years ago

    Using warm LEDs is a way to get the benefit of using LEDs (less power consumption, less heat), while retaining the original look the game was designed to have. I think it also depends on what you are using for GI. If you are using warm/incandescent-style LEDs for GI, cool white LEDs for inserts just won't look right. Warm will be the way to go.

    Color matching can be good, but sometimes it makes colored inserts look a little too colored. Blues being too thick, reds looking too hot, yellows blinding the eyes. Using warm incandescent-style LEDs can help with that. The inserts originally used this kind of hue, so the colors will look normal, just a little bit brighter.

    Another issue with color matching is that many inserts have white cut-outs or segments for text. For instance, the "R O C K" targets on AC\DC. When I had red LEDs under those inserts, the text turned red and the inserts didn't look right as a result. Using a warm style instead, I was able to get the red to pop, but the text on the inserts would be perfectly readable (and not red) as they should be. Using cool whites achieved the same purpose, but made the red appear whiter than it should which didn't look right since I was using warm/incandescent-style bulbs for GI.

    #20 9 years ago
    Quoted from akm:

    Using warm LEDs is a way to get the benefit of using LEDs (less power consumption, less heat), while retaining the original look the game was designed to have. blockquote>

    I use warm whites in my games for the above reasons. I have tried many different styles for using LEDS and think warm white works very well in everything.

    #21 9 years ago

    Oh, and I am messing things up by adding a color "Sunlight" between warm and natural.... Now we're a mess!

    #22 9 years ago
    Quoted from akm:

    Using warm LEDs is a way to get the benefit of using LEDs (less power consumption, less heat), while retaining the original look the game was designed to have.

    I would doubt things like blue or green inserts were "designed" to have a yellow/warm tint to them.

    It's not like the designers had a choice in using anything other than incandescent bulbs at the time.

    #23 9 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I would doubt things like blue or green inserts were "designed" to have a yellow/warm tint to them.
    It's not like the designers had a choice in using anything other than incandescent bulbs at the time.

    I agree. I always found it funny the phrase "the way it was designed" or perhaps more like "the way it was designed using what they had available when something else, not yet in the market, could be market"

    #24 9 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    Why would you want to wash out the color of the insert instead of enhance it?

    It depends on the insert. On some games I don't want really vivid colored inserts. The cool white brightens them up and puts out less heat, but keeps them closer to original.

    #25 9 years ago
    Quoted from RobT:

    I would doubt things like blue or green inserts were "designed" to have a yellow/warm tint to them.

    But do they, though? I find that inserts like that (blue/green) with thick coloring, even when using incandescents, still come out looking.. blue, or green. If they have white text on them then that's a different story, but really it depends on the insert.

    #26 9 years ago
    Quoted from akm:

    But do they, though?

    Yes, they do.

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