I’m assuming the legs were trash as well. Virtually none of the classic Sterns still have the originals.

Don’t forget the inline wire rails

Finally got around to playing beatles and as I assumed the design was so diff'rent even with the old parts is wouldn't play eh same. I wouldn't trust Stern not to tweak a bunch of shit for no reason before releasing

Stupid nut on top of playfield posts was weak too...easily fixed with tophats though

Most of the metal used in classic Sterns looks like a "pot metal", I am guessing mostly zinc, and that impacts a number of parts. Worst part I have run into by far are those lousy lockdown receivers, followed by the first generation flipper baseplates.

Sign me up for the goddamn metal light board shared 5v for worst part!

He needs to ; because saying Fathom is better then QS, something is wrong. QS smokes Fathom in every department and your's play's like a dream. Whysnow if you ever in Dallas come by. Mine play's amazing also. I have sold every Fathom I have owned, (like 4 or 5) but QS has been in my collection for the last 20 years. Going nowhere but to my grave site.

Yes, yes they were.
Besides light sockets that fall apart when you change the bulbs, cabinets made out of recycled crap, flipper assemblies, trough arm mechs, pop bumper rings, leg plates, the way they stapled the cabinets, the cheap inks used on BG's, thin as hell playfield inserts... So many MORE things were just thrown together. Also, unfused S.Driver boards that catch fire!

I've repaired and owned a slew of them in the last 15 years and they are all made of crap. ALL of them. It's one reason I like them so much. Gives them some great character and it's a fun challenge to keep them running.

The only superior part(s) in my mind were the lockdown bars themselves (not the receiver part), and the drop target assemblies seemed to hold up better.

When they migrated to plastic pop bumpers assemblies (F2K), it got a little better but VERY little.

They were significantly cheaper than NIB Bally machines in the late 70's and prior to F2K. They were cheaper for a reason.

Don't you remember 15 years ago when you couldn't sell any of them because they were all considered absolutely inferior to every game Bally made from 1977~1983? Nobody would touch a Meteor or Flight2K, everyone wanted Kiss and Eight Ball Deluxe.

No. The legs are not trash. My Big Game and Catacomb have the original legs. Two others look like the have the Bally replacement legs.

These is some possibility for confusion, though. Recall those Bally home pins like Captain Fantastic and Evil Knievel. Those legs look exactly like the Bally legs. And they will bolt up to both Bally's and Stern's. But the difference is the legs for those home pins are made of lighter gauge steel. Installing these lightweight legs on a commercial pin is slow suicide.

AKAIK, Stern used two different styles of lockdown receivers. One style used the ball and socket type of affair. The later style moved to the slotted style of receiver. For a long time, I figured Stern thought the slotted style was better the ball and socket and this is why the ball and socket was replaced. However, I do have a ball and socket style lockdown bar and receiver and I like it because the ball is adjustable. If your lockdown bar is a little loose, the ball can be adjusted.

With the ball and socket style, Stern had to produce the ball with a threaded shaft. The receiver unit has to be drilled and threaded. And a special lock nut had to be produced. And then someone had to thread the nut onto the threaded shaft of the ball. Then the ball and lock nut had to be screwed into the threaded holes on the receiver. And then it had to be adjusted.
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The lockdown receiver assembly that replaced the ball and socket style with the slotted style was just one piece of metal that is spot welded to the lockdown bar.

Gone was the the ball that had to have threads machined on. Gone was the nut that had to have threads machined on. No machining was required on the new receiver assembly.

I'll hazard a guess that the later slotted style of a receiver assembly was a cost saving measure only. The slotted style worked OK and was cheaper to produce.

Can I prove all of this? No. But in my mind, a cost savings was the only reason for Stern to change styles.

Kind of irrelevant as you can say that for literally hundreds of pins.

I still can't believe DE and Sega games get WPC prices these days. Thousands of gottlieb and bally games that may have ended up in landfill got a second lease because of reproduction boards.

I don't really give a shit just relating my experience as someone who now has owned about half-dozen classic Stern games. Don't really notice much besides the light sockets as being markedly inferior. I think you are using a little bit of hyperbole but I don't want to get into a big thing about cause like I said I don't really care.

You can't even bend the light sockets to remove a bulb without them breaking in some cases!

Oh and yes I had a Stars lockdown bar mech fall apart on me.

I collected Bally games` for the first few years as well, then I played a QS and a Meteor and I was shit, these things are fun.

Centaur is a great example. Game play has always been "meh" to me but nice to look at.

As I work on my Sterns cleaning them up and restoring them, I don't see too many sub-standard parts. What I do see is wiring that is a mess.

I open up a Williams machine and the wire is all running nice and straight. The diodes are soldered on with just a little bit of wire and they look all nice and neat.

Classic Stern wire harnesses, OTOH, are a tangled up mess. It is like the harness builder ran wire #1 straight from point "A" to point "B". And followed with wire #2 from point "A" to point "B". But wire #3 did not go straight to point "C". Wire #3 got wrapped around the first 2 wires 4 or 5 times before it was attached to point "C". And then wire #4 gets wrapped around the first 3 wires and starts being woven inside and all around. They are just insane wiring harnesses that are terrible to have to trace wires in.

And the diodes use a lot of wire. Works OK, but not as neat as Williams.

Classic Stern lock down bars seem solid as a rock!

And is it brass or copper?

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I own both classic Bally and classic Sterns.

I would agree that Stern was cheapening out for cost savings even back then.

The bally games are built and engineered much better. I am guessing the culture has been prevalent since the old days.

Plated steel, brass and copper would be too soft.

I didn't look up the conversion yet, but isn't that close to about 12,000 USD?

Not quite

For those that care, as of today, that's around $980 USD.

Any love for Freefall? I have been playing one a lot recently, and find it to be a sweet game!