I have some reservations, I'm not sure if I like how much the ball may be in the pops, one of my complaint in PotC is when you are in the saucer and the ball is ejected to the pops sometimes the ball will roll back tonthe saucer and then it's back to the pops. Can kill the flow if the ball is in the pops too much.

I am not quite sure if I liked the well walker bash toy, as it's close and gets hit a lot, it may have been better as a Iron Monger type figure that is not always up but instead just comes out now and then (or like the Balrog on LOTR) or if the walker was a bit smaller in scale.

Love the dots and the long ramps will be nice.

Finally, not sure I like the call outs or constant screaming etc,, seems very dark, I understand it's the theme is dark but this may get depressing after a while.

Holding final judgment until I see the game in person.

Maybe at York?

I actually agree with you. I would not say it's only the toys that interest me, I like the ramps as well. But to me, Met or IM VE 'seem' to be better and are proven good. I would say with Stern, it's a 50:50 chance, could be good could be bad. I mean TF, BBH, TRS, AV, Mustang, Avatar do not set the world on fire but then you also have Tron, IM, AcDC, Metallica which (IMO) are very superior (toy count does not make them great).

IMO, this is a case, I really need to be convinced that it's a sure fire winner before I plunk down $4600 or $7600.

I will say the same thing about The Hobbit and on. I am not just buying a game based on a cool theme.

to debate this point.

PotC has:
-spinning disc
-Treasure chest
-Sinking ship (the ship is one of the best ever toys)

-also has an up kicker.

XMLE has:
-Nightcrawler toys (very cool)
-Wolverine interactive magnet
-Spinning Disk magnet
-Locking mechanism under Magneto
-moving Ice ramp

-upkicker
-Scoop
-post blockers
-3 flippers

I don't know what Stern or it's investors are making, and I absolutely agree that they could/should try harder. 100% agree with that.

But my counter argument is, sometimes it's a little support that keeps a company in business. I didn't think of that when I bought PotC at the time, I was just thinking it was cool. But over the past 10+ years it has been Gary that has kept the home fires burning. I kind of think everyone that buys Stern or has in the past has done a little to keep the industry alive. I know we sling a lot of crap at Gary, but without Stern, I don't think we would be here on Pinside. I mean what just talking about 15 year old games? I like the fact that Stern has made IM, Tron, SM, AcDc, XMLE, Met, STLE and others. I think without us people who do buy Stern games they might have gone under or at might have been a shell of what they are now.

Making a pinball machine is probably harder than some people realize, not it's not on the same level as building a car or a cell phone. But it's not just slapping a few doodads together.

Just look at Skit-B who had a whitewood prototype 2-3 years ago and still no pin.

JJP has a rough time, Jpop don't get me started. I know AMH seems to have done it in a short time. But I am not sure it's much/any better than a typical Stern pro. I know it's got different features but I think it has more rough edges. (from what I saw at Allentown, it was not fully working all the time).

I think Stern, has to pay a lot for theme/license such as XM, SM, ST, Tron, TWD, TRS, Met, AcDc these are A-List marques. If they were sports teams they'd be the Yankees, the Cowboys, the Steelers (etc..).

I know Stern could make unlicensed themes, but likely they feel they'll sell more X-Men (for example) than a game about "a group of characters who don't like each other" no-name theme.

I think Stern does just enough to justify whatever they can sell the games at. I think they make a decent profit but so do GM and Starbucks and Apple and Sony. If most people don't think so, they won't sell any and will either lower their price or go under.

Until JJP starts making many more games per year, or PPS (but as well Stern is making something off PPS so it don't hurt as much). Until enough boutiques start shipping or another full line company come along (doubtful). Stern is still one of the only sources of $4600 new pins.

Wasn't Lyman involved in TRS, Avatar and BBH?

Also, with the pro Metallica as well, they remove the spinners. Not like that is an expensive item,a maybe a couple dollars each. But IMO it's a ploy to gimp the promos that some people feel they'd rather get the premium or LE.

Back in the day Intel made a few different CPU chips, I'm talking 20 years ago, one chip was the same as another except they crossed out the math co-processor and sold it at a lower price. Now it wasn't costing any difference to Intel they just crippled one version so they could charge more for the upper level chip.

I know you are trying to be argumentative which is fine, but I was trying to say IM and Met both of which you say you like are both for sale now, and both have complete code. With TWD yes you have a good track record from prior games. But you don't know for sure if it is any good. Currently IM and Met are probably way better since they are coded. TWD is still a leap of faith.

And while I base my assessment off of playing IM and Met not having played TWD but that where we are, currently from what I see with my eyes TWD is not better the Met or IM or Tron or SM.

I am not going by videos of those older games when they were first revealed, I am going by my personal experience, I have no experience with TWD it's a shot in the dark or a leap of faith at this point, and by Met or ST experience it will be months and months until it can be judged on near complete code.

I recommend playing before buying and probably I recommend waiting for the code to drop which is probably a year from now.

So you're in favor of Stern removing a $3 part from the pro like spinners so that it's less enjoyable thereby making the pro a less appealing pin.