There is a link at the extreme bottom of the project page. Not sure if you have to be signed in or not.

So basically what everyone is saying is that VonnieD pinball is a complete fraud and they have set up a service that makes fake kickstarters accounts to "pledge" cash. Then as the kickstarter gets closer to funding these bots retract their pledges, thus making real people think the event is always close to funding so they pledge??? I guess the idea is that eventually the real money replaces enough of the bot money that the kickstarter makes its final goal?

Am I understanding this all correctly?

http://valleywag.gawker.com/kickstarter-project-canceled-after-dude-spends-all-the-912176282

Not sure what the rules are with kickstarter ... if a project reaches it's goal, but there are a bunch of say 'shills' then do the 'real' people still have to pay if the 'shills' do not? Wow, if that is the case, then it becomes easy to 'pad' your kickstarter to entice people to 'finish' the goal ... I hope this is not how it works.

We've found the last few days to be rather wild. It's our first Kickstarter campaign, so I don't know what is normal or ordinary, but we've likewise found it strange that we have had many people changing their pledge amounts, both up and down. I think it makes sense though that people would want to adjust their levels to what they can afford at the time or what rewards they want to get from the campaign.

We've had quite a few people really come through at the end. A lot of the people who promised us they'd come through are finally doing so. Let's just hope more do in the next few hours.

After looking at the profile links above, I will admit they look strange. But I can assure you that we are not wasting our money pledging for ourselves or using any kind of bots. I suspect it's more likely to come from to people tell us they were going to sabatoge our project. For example, one guy <edited by moderator> called and told us he planned to sabotage the entire campaign, he claimed to have information against us. Weird thing is we could never get him to tell us what he thought was wrong or why he hated us. We figured he was just one of the trolls on here.

You can say what you want about our credibility, but we will make you eat your words. Pinball Gremlins is coming.

Funny how the two people who want to "report us" are another pinball company (Planetary Pinball Supply) and a guy who uses JJPs logo on their profile (suspicious?). I can assure you there is nothing to report here. In case you didn't notice, our campaign has already been reviewed by Kickstarter and has been staff selected.

You guys are seriously jealous of our Kickstarter campaign? The fact is we live in a world where crowdfunding is becoming a more common and mainstream method of funding.

Maybe they used the bots so people figured out it was
a joke. That said the game's modes were basically the CB modes from
WOZ.

As the KS gets close to funding, the bots roll back their pledges, keeping the KS right at the cusp of being funded. I believe that you have to have a CC or bank attached to your KS, so if a campaign ended above it's ask and the bots hadn't dialed back their pledges, they'd be on the hook for them. I'd imagine they have fake CC info on their profiles though.

After following this thread, I don't think we'll ever know who did what and why. Perhaps it's just the first act of the Pinball Gremlins.

I think the paid shill thing is usually more along the lines of a $1 pledge and a peppy comment to generate activity/backers.

I think you need to read PPS' post again as the way I took it he was questioning Kickstarter and not the actions of Vonnie D.

There are far, far too many bots for it to be "someone messing with you." Nobody cares about you enough to bother hiring bots to screw with your KS. Those things aren't free.

Dude, you are totally busted. Denying it just makes you look like an idiot.

If it were me, I'd be happy that people wanted to alert KS to confirm my info. That way, I could provide evidence when KS came back with the "all is fine" report.

Then again, if it were me, I'd know who Keith f'ing Johnson is. So there's that.

It's not suspicious at all. I work for JJP. My interest is in making sure the Pinball Community isn't ripped off. Someone postulated that there were questionable backers, so I looked into it and provided results.

I think you need to read the entire thread if you think I'm here to simply cause trouble. I've made no accusations, just provided research. There is absolutely no doubt that there are questionable backers to your project.

Internet sleuthing is something I do because I find it interesting and enjoyable. You're not the first people I've ever looked into by a long shot (long history of exposing rgp trolls), and sadly, probably won't be the last. Ultimately, if you're not doing anything shady, then you don't have anything to worry about.

GLWKS

You might be right about that. I just scanned these posts quickly.

I'd think JJP would have something better to do than hire people to post negatively about other companies. Maybe getting machines out to people who already paid for them would be a start. You wanna talk about a sketchy scam? Where's all those games that JJP has already been paid for?

I love this thread....Wes you are the man!!!

His part of the job is not only done but even exceeded.

wesupchurch no one wins when it comes to stuff like this!!! JJP's biggest issue has been the delay in producing said machines. Yeah it hasn't happened as quickly as all would have liked to seen happen but saying he is up to something sketchy is not adequate.

You guys are also new to the pinball market so I am certain you all will also have issues/delays as its part of starting up a company!

Hope you guys meet the 100k and your machine comes to fruition without issues! Don't get sucked into the name calling as it just winds up making you look bad!!!

"Issues" ... like trying to design & build a new game in quantity for 100k?

Way to take the high road.

Dude, I haven't posted anything negative about your "company." You do not want to challenge me on what I really think of your design. If you think all I do is post negative stuff about everyone else, then you're a bigger troll than I dreamed possible.

abvKi9c[1].gif

Yes, because the best way to get people on your side is to try and smear others. Clearly you're not ready to roll with the big boys, because you can't even act like one.

Thanks. I agree. Any number of things can cause delays. Even getting one-off parts for our prototypes have taken longer than expected. But for JJP employees to engage in smear campaigns is unprofessional. To me, it looks like sophisticated misdirection (of frustrated people in the pinball community) and dirty business practices. I'd much rather everyone here get along and see many successful companies supporting each other.

What have you put out? Oh, that right NOTHING! JJP has, so I think he knows a little more than you do. I mean allot more than you do. I would say he's just a little bit bigger to.

image.jpg

Screen Shot 2014-07-25 at 2.29.51 PM.png

A++
would read again
lol

At the rate you're digging, you're gonna need one of these pretty soon...

Trencher2.jpg

Please quote exactly where I (the singular employee of JJP posting in this thread, which I am pointing out to you since you seem to think there are more than one of us) smeared you.

I think you are smearing him by saying that he was smearing you......

We asked them to look into it and told them it looked weird and would be great if they looked into it, as we don't want another 'bumper' by any means. If everything is on the up and up then there is no problem with kickstarter and certainly no problem with me. But as someone wanting to do a couple of kickstarters, this certainly looks a bit stange. Any yes, it was more about how kickstarter works, and unfortunately you are the 'first' example of where I've never ever contemplated that something like this could possibly be a scenario ...

Don't play the victim card now.

rick

The next step for this Kickstarter is to rent an AirBNB house for 30 days, and then claim squatter's rights

http://www.joystiq.com/2014/07/24/kickstarter-funded-game-developer-at-heart-of-airbnb-squatter-sc/

Wes Upchurch got exposed juicing his own kickstarter with fake contributors, so now he's lashing out in all directions.

when he suggested JJP and PPS were out to get him, I nearly gave him a thumbs up out of habit for making me laugh. Forgot for a second he wasn't joking.

Oh ... didn't know that ... very unfortunate ... as anyone can do that to anyone on kickstarter ... yay, another fatal flaw in a startup (hopefully they fix).

Thanks for clarifying. That is a situation we'd all like to avoid.

This doesn't seem like something you'd do "TO" someone, but for yourself. I guess some person on the outside who really really wanted a kickstarter to succeed, so they could get the product for themselves could "attack" you with shill bids.. but, seems like a lot of work / highly unusual.

Does kickstarter verify your credit card when making an account? If not, that's probably what they should do.. at least then, the card would have to be real (I guess at the time).. so if the bots made a mistake, you'd still get the money charged to them. At worse case.. again, assuming someone is doing it "TO" you ... your kickstarter wouldn't of succeeded without them so, the retraction in the final minutes isn't going to thwart something that was going to succeed otherwise.

Maybe if you got Barry Oursler, Gabriel Picolo, and Midnight Syndicate to post anything about any involvement with this project up on their Facebook accounts. It's really weird that none of them have said a thing about working with you guys.

It's clear that you're prone to exaggeration, maybe you've exaggerated their involvement? It's not like they aren't active. Barry is posting cat pictures and stuff, but he doesn't mention this really cool pinball project he's working on.

You'd think they would all put a link to the kickstarter because they're going to get paid if it funds too, right?

When I read his post and did a double take
Then a face palm
No one's out to get anyone here. We're all just trying to figure out who y'all are, and, consequently, coming to conclusions based on facts and actions presented to us.

I like boutiques, and hope we have alot of the, I just hope they are sucessful and get built and that everyone play by the same rules ... more boutiques = more parts after all ...

From the Kickstarter description it sounds like Barry said he'd work with them IF they made funding (and could pay, I'm guessing).

From the page:
"Additional Game Mode Development: We’d love to bring more experienced talent, including more industry pros like Barry Oursler to our team."

It's also weird that they went three weeks without with no updates (especially on kickstarter), except for more puppet videos.

VD pinball. Hey Barry will you work with us. Barry, we can talk if you guys can afford me.

Yup you caught me. I have the money to pay people to fake a pledge, but not the money to just pledge it myself. I'd rather create a million fake accounts to fund a Kickstarter project than just skip the Kickstarter altogether. That makes a lot of sense. I've secretly been hoarding an entire army of robots to do my bidding. The next episode is The Clone Wars.

Well the artist is a freelancer. I wound not think he would post, as he is not a pinball guy. He was just hired at $55.00 to do a drawing. I might add a very good artist, but has no ties to theses two at all. Other than, Hey can you draw us some characters? However, maybe if they throw him $5.00 he might.

Screen Shot 2014-07-25 at 3.13.53 PM.png

Wow attacking one of your supporters from the very start. Now that's classy.

This thread should make it into the Pinside Hall of Fame..

You don't need to create a million fake accounts, just 9. Like, for example, you could create 9 fake accounts divided up as such:
2 @ $6500
1 @ $8000
3 @ $9000
3 @ $10,000

Well, according to this article written by "Author: Wes Upchurch. Wes Upchurch is the founder of PressDr.com an online public relations company specializing in social media marketing and press release distribution."

http://www.evancarmichael.com/Public-Relations/4980/How-To-Write-A-Killer-Press-Release.html

I would think that a good idea would be to have your project listed in as many locations as possible and surely those artists listed on the Kickstarter would reciprocate by doing something as simple as copying and pasting the VonnieD Kickstarter link on to their facebook timeline.

Someone who owns a Public Relations company would know to ask for everyone involved to do at least that.

It is becoming obvious that this kickstarter operation is going the way of possible legal ramifications toward illegal practices.

The way this pinball company can extricate itself from the rather deep hole is to demonstrate action and progress through development of a machine.

Attempting to counter negative posts through negative posts never, ever works. Every post you make show inexperience and appear an adolescent is at the keyboard.

You can't start a business with your lack of design and manufacturing experience and hope others are going to support your endeavor when you are demonstrating your inexperience in gathering support in a positive meaningful way. It just will not work -- your marketing campaign or lack thereof isn't working.

The adage that pictures and actions speak louder than words holds true for the current situation this company now faces. You have got show progress because words in your posts are not going to work.

You likely started out with good intentions, but turned over a bee hive with no bee protection suit because of inexperience, and don't know what to do.

You need more than good luck.

Wes, I love pinball and was so so on Vonnie D, but after all of this I think you are done and I'm not saddened by this as you guys are shady to say the least. I hope you guys go away and do not get the funds of whoever did pledge $.

Hope Vonnie d goes away at this point. You two are shady db's

Oh I agree totally with you. I am just saying the guy has no clue of what is going on in here. They most likely didn't ask him to. He most likely would've said okay. I'm sure now they can asking to do it and it might pop up. Time will tell. The other guys most likely said "if you have the funding will help you". He was hired to draw the characters other than that his passion is in drawing not pinball.

Screen Shot 2014-07-25 at 3.41.52 PM.png

So if one has a Kickstarter for $75k, and has "bots" pledge $60k, and $15k from real people, they pass their goal and are "successful". Does Kickstarter pay the creator the $15k they charged successfully when $60k are declined credit cards? Is it still a successful campaign?

Or do you need to have $75k in real money charged to get anything?

There are no bots and the bath salts were REAL incense.
Wes is a trustworthy individual.