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(Topic ID: 94620)

Vonnie D Pinball-----Now Live with videos...Kickstarter LE...?


By kidchrisso

6 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 195 posts
  • 94 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by underlord
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    There are 195 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 4.
    #151 6 years ago

    I personally think that an "order" by kickstarter is more safe as to send money with Western Union.

    #152 6 years ago
    Quoted from master_of_chaos:

    I personally think that an "order" by kickstarter is more safe as to send money with Western Union.

    Have you followed many kickstarters? There's lots of horror stories of backers getting screwed after projects have been funded. It's the same amount of risk. You don't get that money back.

    #153 6 years ago
    Quoted from Ed209:

    Have you followed many kickstarters? There's lots of horror stories of backers getting screwed after projects have been funded. It's the same amount of risk. You don't get that money back.

    THIS.

    Happens all the time, which is why crowdfunding is on the decline. Look at that watch fiasco. You're welcome to write me off as crazy, that crowdfunding is huge and growing fast, but you'd be wrong. The ONLY people truly succeeding in crowdfunding these days are those with very established clout (e.g. Amanda Palmer, Veronica Mars, Zach Braff, etc etc). Even people with clout and successful funding, like Neil Young, are going to fail miserably (PONO - which is a huge joke) and leave backers bitter.

    -1
    #154 6 years ago

    Maybe spooky could get involved and bring this game to life.

    #155 6 years ago

    You can't make a lot of the shots on that playfield design. Sorry, I wouldn't send them a dime.

    #156 6 years ago
    Quoted from chessiv:

    You can't make a lot of the shots on that playfield design. Sorry, I wouldn't send them a dime.

    Agreed, cant see this working at all and as for sending upfront money in any form, no thanks.

    #157 6 years ago
    Quoted from Spencer:

    Agreed, cant see this working at all and as for sending upfront money in any form, no thanks.

    Yeah, I can imagine anyone that would pay for one in full at this stage has such a high possibility of regretting it later because they have almost no idea of what the finished product will be like.

    #158 6 years ago
    Quoted from Robotoes:

    THIS.
    Happens all the time, which is why crowdfunding is on the decline. Look at that watch fiasco. You're welcome to write me off as crazy, that crowdfunding is huge and growing fast, but you'd be wrong. The ONLY people truly succeeding in crowdfunding these days are those with very established clout (e.g. Amanda Palmer, Veronica Mars, Zach Braff, etc etc). Even people with clout and successful funding, like Neil Young, are going to fail miserably (PONO - which is a huge joke) and leave backers bitter.

    I don't have a dog in this fight in regards to pinball...

    But I will say you are dead wrong about crowdfunding. Its on the rise, growing, expanding, and will continue to change the consumer landscape in the months and years to come.

    I agree though, you should never fund something you don't have trust in. The best campaigns are a result of trust with the host. To that end, being an established brand or known personality can greatly assist crowdfunding. That's not to say you couldn't crowdfund a graduation gift for your little sister amongst your own family however.

    #159 6 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    The biggest cost is time, which is "free" if you're doing it yourself. AMH was basically a second job for me for well over a year, had I billed a client for that easily 80k+. So their cost is reasonable.
    No tangible rewards under $1000 and nothing of value until 6.5k is a lot to ask when average Kickstarter pledge is $45.
    A shooting Whitewood of Foam core (Nordmanite) isn't much harder than drawing a sketch they really should have done that at minimum.
    We've had to fight for inches with an original theme/no big name designer despite having a fully working game since March 2013. So it's not hard to calculate the uphill battle this game will fave.

    Fully agreed! Amh is an awesome game with original theme and should be selling more as everyone demanded original theme

    #160 6 years ago

    I really like the concept...I'm all about innovation..and would love to see a prototype in play. However, after seeing the videos released, it kind of makes me wince a little. It just feels like a couple of guys who are going to make a dream machine out of their garage...and go from there.
    I personally would have more impressed if they would have skipped the countdown timer on the website....and just laid all their cards out on the table from the get go and said:
    "We have a really cool design for a machine....We already have done the research, Oursler is onboard, but we need your help and that's why we started a kickstarter campaign."

    I think they need to do a lot more Q&A if they are asking us to be the investors for them.

    #161 6 years ago
    Quoted from Stones:

    I really like the concept...I'm all about innovation..and would love to see a prototype in play. However, after seeing the videos released, it kind of makes me wince a little. It just feels like a couple of guys who are going to make a dream machine out of their garage...and go from there.
    I personally would have more impressed if they would have skipped the countdown timer on the website....and just laid all their cards out on the table from the get go and said:
    "We have a really cool design for a machine....We already have done the research, Oursler is onboard, but we need your help and that's why we started a kickstarter campaign."
    I think they need to do a lot more Q&A if they are asking us to be the investors for them.

    Not only that is they should have done some more work on their own before bringing it to the public that way they'd have more to show, because even Q&A doesn't do much to convince investors when they can't see an actual, physical, working prototype.

    #162 6 years ago

    The main problem is the discrepancy between
    - the amateur flavor of the video associated with an almost complete lack of solid information released
    - the amount of money requested. I love the goal: "$500,000 - Switchable Color Changing Glass"

    This request comes too early - a playable prototype with decent artwork would be the minimum -.

    If one has to "invest" money in a low run boutique pin, I'd rather go for Wrath of Olympus.

    #163 6 years ago
    Quoted from chessiv:

    You can't make a lot of the shots on that playfield design. Sorry, I wouldn't send them a dime.

    But, but.....it was tested inside Future Pinball with special scatter angles from the flippers.

    #164 6 years ago
    Quoted from horseypin:

    But, but.....it was tested inside Future Pinball with special scatter angles from the flippers.

    Problem is, 11 out of every 10 virtual pinheads hate the physics of FP, citing lack of realism. We still are wondering how that 11th player got their opinion in.

    #165 6 years ago

    No product. Not even a finished pf design.

    No intentions of building anything until money is set. No risk on their end except 20 grand or so they said they already invested.

    Never heard of these guys ever before they asked for kick starter funds.

    JJP had an established pinball guy heading company before it was fully implemented. Skitb had a nearly finished dmd setup and some physical pf designs already done by some hardcore well known pinball guys.

    These two young guys have hand puppets and grand aspirations. Good for them I guess but I'm not interested in throwing money at anything I've seen so far. At all. How about I start my own pin company too. Underlord Productions. First theme: 100% tits and ass gorefest undead theme. Give me 10 grand and you'll get the ultra deluxe edition. Complete with pumping heart action. :p

    #166 6 years ago

    Cool concept, but if these guys cannot scrape together $100k without the help of kick starter, they are not the type I want to invest in. Get a working prototype and maybe they will be some support.

    #167 6 years ago
    Quoted from s1500:

    Problem is, 11 out of every 10 virtual pinheads hate the physics of FP, citing lack of realism. We still are wondering how that 11th player got their opinion in.

    I take it you knew my comment was heavy sarcasm. You lost me with that reply and what it had to do with it...

    #168 6 years ago

    So the last sentence of the second paragraph in the "Why Kickstarter" states the following:
    "The whitewood is done, the art is nearly done, and we are currently finishing the design of props and new features."
    If this is true, why didn't they show it? This is the type of proof most people would want to see before funding a project like this.
    If it's false, then advertising that on their kickstarter is misleading potential investors and I suspect is also violating kickstarter's rules.

    #169 6 years ago
    Quoted from Linolium:

    So the last sentence of the second paragraph in the "Why Kickstarter" states the following:
    "The whitewood is done, the art is nearly done, and we are currently finishing the design of props and new features."
    If this is true, why didn't they show it? This is the type of proof most people would want to see before funding a project like this.
    If it's false, then advertising that on their kickstarter is misleading potential investors and may be violating kickstarter's rules...

    Bingo.

    #170 6 years ago

    Caveat emptor.

    #171 6 years ago
    Quoted from underlord:

    No product. Not even a finished pf design.
    No intentions of building anything until money is set. No risk on their end except 20 grand or so they said they already invested.
    Never heard of these guys ever before they asked for kick starter funds.
    JJP had an established pinball guy heading company before it was fully implemented. Skitb had a nearly finished dmd setup and some physical pf designs already done by some hardcore well known pinball guys.
    These two young guys have hand puppets and grand aspirations. Good for them I guess but I'm not interested in throwing money at anything I've seen so far. At all. How about I start my own pin company too. Underlord Productions. First theme: 100% tits and ass gorefest undead theme. Give me 10 grand and you'll get the ultra deluxe edition. Complete with pumping heart action. :p

    I will say, skit b was in a similar boat right? But they go stuff together and didn't require a kick start or full payment to get their game going. They also posted updates etc. And Woly, same thing...jeez, these guys are doing it wrong :/

    -2
    #172 6 years ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    I will say, skit b was in a similar boat right? But they go stuff together and didn't require a kick start or full payment to get their game going. They also posted updates etc. And Woly, same thing...jeez, these guys are doing it wrong :/

    And how many of skit b's games have shipped?

    #173 6 years ago

    I am not reading through this whole thing but..

    Seriously, is that a standup target in the left flipper lanes that could ONLY be hit by the ball rolling up the flipper?

    And the "color changing glasS" sounds horribad. You think invisiglass is bad wait till you see that price on this junk...

    #174 6 years ago
    Quoted from northvibe:

    I will say, skit b was in a similar boat right? But they go stuff together and didn't require a kick start or full payment to get their game going. They also posted updates etc. And Woly, same thing...jeez, these guys are doing it wrong :/

    Close, but a few things were different.

    Lots and lots of guys knew Kevin and crew. Rules were pretty much done, and dmd animations were already mostly done. Boards, pf design were mostly hashed out already. And they only has $250 deposit to hold your spot til they were ready to build em.

    #175 6 years ago
    Quoted from tktlwyr:

    And how many of skit b's games have shipped?

    None, but I played the final version at Texas Pinball Festival this year.

    #176 6 years ago
    Quoted from tktlwyr:

    And how many of skit b's games have shipped?

    How absurdly irrelevant. Northvibes's comment was comparing Skit B's roll out to Vonnie D's.
    Good grief.

    Kim

    #177 6 years ago
    Quoted from Stones:

    None, but I played the final version at Texas Pinball Festival this year.

    Good for you! Every time is passed by it at the TPF, it was off and being serviced.

    Quoted from Mr68:

    How absurdly irrelevant. Northvibes's comment was comparing Skit B's roll out to Vonnie D's.
    Good grief.
    Kim

    I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Didn't they take a deposit? What's the difference between taking a deposit or requesting people participate in a kickstarter? Either way, it's money out of someone's pocket for something that isn't assembled yet. I'll be impressed when I see games shipped.

    #178 6 years ago
    Quoted from tktlwyr:

    I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Didn't they take a deposit? What's the difference between taking a deposit or requesting people participate in a kickstarter? Either way, it's money out of someone's pocket for something that isn't assembled yet. I'll be impressed when I see games shipped.

    Again, irrelevant. We were talking about your response of how many games Skit B shipped.

    Quoted from tktlwyr:

    And how many of skit b's games have shipped?

    Kim

    #179 6 years ago
    Quoted from tktlwyr:

    I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Didn't they take a deposit? What's the difference between taking a deposit or requesting people participate in a kickstarter?

    Quoted from northvibe:

    I will say, skit b was in a similar boat right? But they go stuff together and didn't require a kick start or full payment to get their game going. They also posted updates etc. And Woly, same thing...jeez, these guys are doing it wrong :/

    The difference is $250 just held a spot in line. It showed the commitment level to Skit-B and to Predator, which gave Skit-B at least the faith that a market was there for their product. This likely gave them the faith to continue working on the project.

    You couldn't really assume that $250 a person was a 'down payment' in that sense or money to "get their game going."

    #180 6 years ago
    Quoted from Frax:

    Seriously, is that a standup target in the left flipper lanes that could ONLY be hit by the ball rolling up the flipper?

    Actually, this is a cool idea but I like the way it is done in Atari Road Runner better:

    Road Runner outlane.jpg

    #181 6 years ago
    Quoted from thedarkknight77:

    Cool concept, but if these guys cannot scrape together $100k without the help of kick starter, they are not the type I want to invest in. Get a working prototype and maybe they will be some support.

    ^
    This. Either get a prototype, or find some venture capital. Wish them all the luck in the world, but where is the business model? How will production be handled? What type of technology will be used?

    #182 6 years ago
    Quoted from tktlwyr:

    And how many of skit b's games have shipped?

    None yet, but they are planning to. They at least had a prototype at trade shows, posted video, gameplay and talked to players.

    My comments had nothing to do with shipped games, but the process of creating, starting and getting a game to market.

    #183 6 years ago
    Quoted from tktlwyr:

    Good for you! Every time is passed by it at the TPF, it was off and being serviced.

    I don't think it's irrelevant at all. Didn't they take a deposit? What's the difference between taking a deposit or requesting people participate in a kickstarter? Either way, it's money out of someone's pocket for something that isn't assembled yet. I'll be impressed when I see games shipped.

    A deposit to hold a spot, ex. $250, still allows you to back out AND their game was what, $4000, or 4500? VD wants 7-8k?! No deposit to wait and see, just full payment or else. No good bonus from KS the campaign to buy a real game, sight unseen for any part of the machine, except some concept art? F THAT S.

    I agree to wait to see the game shipped to be impressed, specially on a new comer, hence the reluctance to KS the idea...especially with no actual game, game play, pics, parts, looks, etc.

    #184 6 years ago

    Amongst all the other major complaints people are presenting (that I entirely agree with), it's a bit insane that VonnieD hasn't upped his community relations game. With all of us speaking out about our feelings on the project, maybe he could step in and start going back and forth with everyone. Not a new thread that only sort of addresses some questions...Followed by going back into hiding.

    While I don't think it would necessarily sell more people on the KS, it would (hopefully) give us reason to keep an eye on the guys and reconsider a possibly purchase later down the line (when things are more clear and there's something worth getting excited over).

    #185 6 years ago
    Quoted from nicoga3000:

    Amongst all the other major complaints people are presenting (that I entirely agree with), it's a bit insane that VonnieD hasn't upped his community relations game. With all of us speaking out about our feelings on the project, maybe he could step in and start going back and forth with everyone. Not a new thread that only sort of addresses some questions...Followed by going back into hiding.
    While I don't think it would necessarily sell more people on the KS, it would (hopefully) give us reason to keep an eye on the guys and reconsider a possibly purchase later down the line (when things are more clear and there's something worth getting excited over).

    Totally he/the company should. The real pin-heads want info and more more more before they invest thousands. This is almost worse than Stern's reveals

    #186 6 years ago

    That may turn out to be a rather amusing acronym.

    #187 6 years ago

    I'm not entirely sure why, but "Vonnie D" reminds me of the song "Are you Jimmy Ray". I hate that song.

    #189 6 years ago

    That's not news. It's literally just rehashing our thread.

    #190 6 years ago

    Did he just blame Stern and JJP for the low turnout on Kickstart? Did I read that wrong?

    #191 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    That's not news. It's literally just rehashing our thread.

    That makes us journalists right?

    #192 6 years ago

    Come on - 100k is a small price to pay for all the puppet videos were gonna get!

    #193 6 years ago
    Quoted from tslayer71:

    Come on - 100k is a small price to pay for all the puppet videos were gonna get!

    That could potentially be 20,000 puppet videos.

    The guy who runs the puppet website just had an orgasm.

    #194 6 years ago

    Well, I know what they paid per character drawing. It's the most they have spent to date and it under $55.00 dollars. So I still do not see major money yet!

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