(Topic ID: 198794)

Volley EM Pinball Coin/Stepper odd situation


By MeGotYou

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 27 posts
  • 12 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by woz
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Everything works perfect however every time I add a quarter to the coin door the stepper motor subtracts a game instead of adding a game. Has anyone ever come across this problem? The game allows credits to be added when you win a game or match but for some reason if you add a quarter it takes away a game. I can manually add a game by pushing the plunger of the coil in the rear of the head . Any ideas?

Added over 3 years ago:

Got the game about 10 years ago and have not touched anything...decided to look at all the bugs and see if they could be corrected...yes the stepper unit was touched before I got it....2 new wires installed...appear correct...ratchet was lubricated...and some fine adjustment with 2 screws was performed.....coin adjustments in door register but I can only see the 2.

#2 2 years ago

Did this just start out of the blue or is the game newly acquired?

If the latter, I would start by inspecting the coin adjustments in the front of the cabinet and also the subtract credit solenoid, for mods to the wiring. See if there are any new wires added.

#3 2 years ago

Make sure the mechanisms in the credit wheel are not gummed up. I had an issue with Golden Arrow where the # of games would go all the way to zero whenever a credit was added. Figured out that one of the arms for the ratcheting mechanism was gummed up, and when the solenoid to increment fired, the arm to keep the credit unit from going backwards (toward zero) was not doing its job, allowing the spring to turn the stepper to its zero stop. It sounds like one of your arms is moving too slow, but it eventually gets there.

Take lots of pictures as you disassemble and clean all the pivot points on the arms, and don't forget about how the springs attach.

#4 2 years ago

there is a score motor switch that powers the steps down credit unit coil. i would have to look at my print to tell what one it is. but it may be powered when it should not be

#5 2 years ago
Quoted from MeGotYou:

Everything works perfect however every time I add a quarter to the coin door the stepper motor subtracts a game instead of adding a game. Has anyone ever come across this problem? The game allows credits to be added when you win a game or match but for some reason if you add a quarter it takes away a game. I can manually add a game by pushing the plunger of the coil in the rear of the head . Any ideas?

This is normal for most games if you have it set to 1 coin 1 play (the old US Dime setting). The 1/1 setting usually uses the "Start" relay as the source for a single credit. When set to 2 or more credits per coin, a different set of circuits is used to route multiple pulses to the credit wheel.

In almost every case, there is NO 1 credit per coin setting (providing a single up pulse to the credit wheel) as it was not necessary.

Players had to learn the hard way, if you drop in a coin, with credits remaining on the credit wheel, it will take one away.

There were also games (King Kool) that come to mind that if it was set to 3 credits per coin, it would start a game immediately and put 2 credits on the credit wheel. I am sure there were others too, but that was one I remember well from my youth.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

This is normal for most games if you have it set to 1 coin 1 play (the old US Dime setting). The 1/1 setting usually uses the "Start" relay as the source for a single credit. When set to 2 or more credits per coin, a different set of circuits is used to route multiple pulses to the credit wheel.
In almost every case, there is NO 1 credit per coin setting (providing a single up pulse to the credit wheel) as it was not necessary.
Players had to learn the hard way, if you drop in a coin, with credits remaining on the credit wheel, it will take one away.
There were also games (King Kool) that come to mind that if it was set to 3 credits per coin, it would start a game immediately and put 2 credits on the credit wheel. I am sure there were others too, but that was one I remember well from my youth.

very interesting, never paid much attention to the coin circuit because i put mine on free play. but the logic is there once you explained the process. makes it clearer. i will have to do a few experiments on a few of my games.

#7 2 years ago

This sounds quite possible....Inspected everything...I'm a mechanic but not a pinball repairman but have tinkered with solid state and a little EM. So How would I go about setting it to 2 credits per one coin so that it should (in theory) add a game? Inspected coin mech and stepper unit and everything looks fairly good....thank you to everyone who posted and tried to offer assistance...I am so thankful to have experienced people to ask.

Quoted from CactusJack:

This is normal for most games if you have it set to 1 coin 1 play (the old US Dime setting). The 1/1 setting usually uses the "Start" relay as the source for a single credit. When set to 2 or more credits per coin, a different set of circuits is used to route multiple pulses to the credit wheel.
In almost every case, there is NO 1 credit per coin setting (providing a single up pulse to the credit wheel) as it was not necessary.
Players had to learn the hard way, if you drop in a coin, with credits remaining on the credit wheel, it will take one away.
There were also games (King Kool) that come to mind that if it was set to 3 credits per coin, it would start a game immediately and put 2 credits on the credit wheel. I am sure there were others too, but that was one I remember well from my youth.

#8 2 years ago

Change the single jones plug on the lower board that's behind the score motor. There may be a diagram on the board.

#9 2 years ago

Hi.

FWIW..... Gottlieb 2001 with two coin chutes has the same behavior on the left/1st chute.

Inserting a quarter in the left/1st chute decrements the credit wheel by 1 and immediately starts a game (and there is not a 1st chute setting jumper of which I am aware/which I can find).

Inserting a quarter in the right/2nd chute (with the 2nd chute mech panel jumper set to 2 plays per coin) adds 2 credits to the wheel and the start button must be pressed to start a game.

#10 2 years ago

Interesting....where is the 2nd chute jumper for 2 plays per coin if you don't mind me asking? I believe I have a similar situation...as I think it's the left one that I am basing my info on....the machine is not with me...it's a 50/50 deal with a friend and I will be over there thurs to see if I can make a difference.

Quoted from AvidListener:

Hi.
FWIW..... Gottlieb 2001 with two coin chutes has the same behavior on the left/1st chute.
Inserting a quarter in the left/1st chute decrements the credit wheel by 1 and immediately starts a game (and there is not a 1st chute setting jumper of which I am aware/which I can find).
Inserting a quarter in the right/2nd chute (with the 2nd chute mech panel jumper set to 2 plays per coin) adds 2 credits to the wheel and the start button must be pressed to start a game.

#11 2 years ago

It is on the bottom board. Looks like a single jones plug.

#12 2 years ago

With how the behavior works for starting a game via the dime and nickel chutes, it does indeed immediately fire the start sequence via coin drop. The "credit subtract" circuit is unfortunately hard-coded in the start-up sequence and would do what you describe. Weird. That wouldn't fly today, and it shouldn't have back then. We're gonna need a ouija board if we're to be doing any complaining, though.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

Players had to learn the hard way, if you drop in a coin, with credits remaining on the credit wheel, it will take one away.

I can remember stickers on some pins that stated. 'Do not insert coins if there are credits showing on backglass' Or something like that.

#14 2 years ago

The coin adjustment plugs on your machine should look something like the pic below.
The photo is not from a Volley, but from a wedgehead made less than 6 months later.

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#15 2 years ago

Behind the score motor on the main relay board.

http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=2743&picno=34507&zoom=1

#16 2 years ago

Thank you all so much . What awesome help. I'll be sure to try Thursday and report back. When we got the machine years and years ago we never thought they would make a movie about the characters on the backless yet here we are!

#17 2 years ago

Curious....what do the two screws adjust that are slotted so that you can adjust them on the stepper?
I understand what the set of contacts do in terms of operation with the pin that goes up and breaks contact when you reach max amount of games but the other 2 leaf switches beside it ...how do these work and how should they be set at?

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from MeGotYou:

Curious....what do the two screws adjust that are slotted so that you can adjust them on the stepper?
I understand what the set of contacts do in terms of operation with the pin that goes up and breaks contact when you reach max amount of games but the other 2 leaf switches beside it ...how do these work and how should they be set at?

One switch prevents the Subtract Replay Unit coil from operating when zero credits are shown. The other switch prevents the S "Start Relay" from operating when the replay button is pressed and no credits are shown.

If you want to set the game to freeplay then you need to jumper the switch highlighted below.

Capture (resized).JPG

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from MeGotYou:

Curious....what do the two screws adjust that are slotted so that you can adjust them on the stepper?
I understand what the set of contacts do in terms of operation with the pin that goes up and breaks contact when you reach max amount of games but the other 2 leaf switches beside it ...how do these work and how should they be set at?

If you are talking about the post that actuate the switches then the post has different positions depending on what the op wanted for max games. So many of the games I see they are set to max 8 credits... unscrew the post and move it back and now you are at 15 max credits.

#20 2 years ago

I was taking about the 2 flat head screws beside the wheel where the area is slotted in this diagram. There is 2 to the left and 2 to the right.

stepper (resized).jpg

#21 2 years ago

One adjusts amount of travel to pull back and grab the next tooth. The other adjust limit of travel as the arm returns to rest and pushes the ratchet one tooth forward.

#22 2 years ago

Where is your second post that limits the wheel to 15 credits? i see the empty holes.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from pinhead52:

Where is your second post that limits the wheel to 15 credits? i see the empty holes.

This was a photo from another machine on the net but similar to Volley.

#24 2 years ago

Here are the images of the stepper . I made 2 videos which I can't seem to upload that account for the way it plays. If I put a coin in the left side it automatically starts a game and removes a credit on the wheel. The quarter never adds a game on the credit wheel.
I think this may be a normal function based on other opinions. If I put a coin in the right side the game sounds like it spins and does nothing. Ultimately I would love the right coin shute to do the same as the left. Hopefully my friend will be kind enough to remove the glass and lift the play field for pictures this Thursday to see where the jumper (Jones Plug) is located.I don't quite know what to make of the "2 quarter 2 additional play" decal on the machine either...

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#25 2 years ago

What you describe is what happens when the single pin Jones plug that would adjust the 2nd Chute value (2-5) is either not plugged in, or plugged into the wrong strip.

What we need are photos of the area right around the transformer on the floor. There should be 3 Jones plug strips. There would probably be two that are two positions and one that is 5

The decal you shows would indicate your game has the two coin function which would include an AS relay (mini stepper).

Attached photo is of my Jacks Open. Similar era, also has the alternator AS relay (designation DY relay on this one). Disregard settings and extra wiring as my game is converted to two coin one credit (50 cents per play).

1506819534349732168391 (resized).jpg

IMG_20170930_180308430 (resized).jpg

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

What you describe is what happens when the single pin Jones plug that would adjust the 2nd Chute value (2-5) is either not plugged in, or plugged into the wrong strip.
What we need are photos of the area right around the transformer on the floor. There should be 3 Jones plug strips. There would probably be two that are two positions and one that is 5
The decal you shows would indicate your game has the two coin function which would include an AS relay (mini stepper).
Attached photo is of my Jacks Open. Similar era, also has the alternator AS relay (designation DY relay on this one). Disregard settings and extra wiring as my game is converted to two coin one credit (50 cents per play).

Thank you so much for your input . I hope to have that picture shortly.

2 weeks later
#27 2 years ago

megotyou I just got my Volley up and running and set it up as follows (which I think is what the op wants). This is a Canadian game too so should be the same as yours. Wiring may be different for export models.

Jumpers
1st Coin Chute Adjustment > 2nd Chute (i.e. the Left chute will do whatever the Right is programmed for)
2nd Coin Chute Adjustment > 2 coins = 3 plays (first coin adds one credit, second coin adds two credits. This now matches the apron decal)
2nd Chute Relay Adjustment > 1 play

So for both Left and Right chutes
- 1st coin adds one credit
- 2nd coin adds two credits

Game does not start until the credit button is pressed; one credit is then deducted from credit wheel.

IMG_20171018_203006330 (resized).jpg

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