(Topic ID: 301191)

Volcano scoring sounds gone missing

By adfit

2 years ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by adfit
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 2 years ago

    Good news and bad news!

    I've been working on a Gottlieb Volcano (1980) for 9 months and I got there! First resto. Loving it. Here's a vid of it a few weeks ago, going great.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/QjkdWt1rB1eTtqC47

    So I *was* delighted with my work! But of course, that was hubris...

    The machine is a European "sound only" one. In the video above, you can hear all the scoring sounds. Sadly, these have stopped! Replaced by a new sound! It seems like a "background" sound that isn't in the video above. It's like lava flowing. Really cool.

    There are 3 problems with this development though:

    1. It's the only sound now!
    2. It only plays for the first ball, of the first game after boot up
    3. It stops as soon as any scoring hit is made on the playfield!

    Here's what I mean:

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/1p2g9fJgXwjGyN6L9

    So I've trawled all the System 80 sound posts and tried:

    - Recapping the sound board
    - Checking continuity between the connections on the sound board and where they meet the driver board (all good)

    It didn't get worse, but it didn't get better! So I'm a bit stuck now.

    Any and all ideas are welcome or alternatively, just marvel at the quirks of the Sys 80. The gift to hobbyists that never stops giving!

    #2 2 years ago

    Have you tried replacing the edge connectors for the sound board and the connector where the sound board goes to the driver board?

    If they're original, they're probably due for replacement.

    #3 2 years ago

    This is what the technical seminar workbook say about the sound board.

    146E3059-B540-4314-BA65-FBCDB078C61F (resized).jpeg146E3059-B540-4314-BA65-FBCDB078C61F (resized).jpeg

    Check the connector between the Control board A1 and the Driver board A3.

    #4 2 years ago

    Thanks Mach1 and frunch

    I started with Mach1 tech info and last night wired and new connector between the Control board A1 and the Driver board A3. It's solid. Really took my time and double checked everything. Looks like the old one was solid too though. No improvement.

    Tonight I'll do the soundboard-to-everything-else ones as suggested by frunch

    #5 2 years ago

    Not sure if you read my super long thread about my Volcano adventures with the speech portion of my sound & speech board. I know you don't have speech on your version, but I remember mine very occasionally booting up without any sound at all.

    Something else you describe that sounds familiar. I would get a random tone on startup that stopped as soon as another sound was triggered.

    If you can figure out how that lava sound is triggered, then you can trace out which components may have failed and are triggering the sound when you're not calling for it.

    I wish this could be more specific, but maybe reading my thread might give you some ideas about how to troubleshoot your circuit to help narrow it down.

    #6 2 years ago

    I'm just in from the shed. Replaced 2 more edge connectors.....It's not edge connectors.

    Thanks sparky672 - I did see your thread. It was that which had me try recapping the sound board first. What an ordeal! I see you ended up testing and tracing some issues to chips on the sound board itself. If it comes to that, I think I'll order a Flippp one!

    https://www.flippp.fr/pifx.php

    The Volcano has been really hard to revive (got it completely dead). I'm using a LISY80 MPU even. I don't think it's that though, as it WAS working fine. I suspect something older is cactus.

    Your thread talks about removing the driver board to eliminate that as an issue. Do you mean completely unplugged from everything? All edge conns off?

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from adfit:

    Your thread talks about removing the driver board to eliminate that as an issue. Do you mean completely unplugged from everything? All edge conns off?

    Yes, A6 only has one connector so it stays plugged in. However, I completely removed all Driver board connectors, to eliminate the possibility that my problem was being triggered externally. Game will boot and should have all attract mode sounds... it just will not have any sound triggers.

    #8 2 years ago

    Hmm. Now that I think about it, I don't think that will help me as the sound starts only when the game does. Good to know though and I'll give it a try to see what happens in that state.

    I think I'm looking at an issue on the board - would others agree or send me elsewhere?

    Glad I re-did the edge connectors regardless, they don't look great now (JAMMAs all over), but I trust them now.

    #9 2 years ago

    So what happens after boot-up when you have the card set to 10-second attract mode? Stays silent?

    Quoted from adfit:

    they don't look great now (JAMMAs all over)

    The single-sided connectors could have been re-pinned using the same plastic housings with new Molex pins. Only the Molex pins for the double-sided connectors are obsolete and would require special parts.

    #10 2 years ago

    I don't have the original control board, but no, there's never any attract sound. I'm fine with that though.

    #11 2 years ago
    Quoted from adfit:

    I don't have the original control board, but no, there's never any attract sound. I'm fine with that though.

    As I recall the attract sound (and how often) is a DIP switch setting on the sound card. So it won't matter if you run a LISY board or the original MPU.

    I have the original MPU in my Volcano but did build a LISY board for fun and will eventually try it in my Volcano.

    #12 2 years ago
    Quoted from sparky672:

    So what happens after boot-up when you have the card set to 10-second attract mode? Stays silent?

    Quoted from adfit:

    I don't have the original control board, but no, there's never any attract sound. I'm fine with that though.

    The dip switches on the sound board control attract mode, not the MPU... which is why I asked the question - as a means to further your troubleshooting. If attract mode is not working despite DIP settings then it's a problem narrowed down to the sound card.

    #13 2 years ago

    Thank you sparky672 That's a great steer. Weekend ahead and some time to work more on this. I might be deep in your sound board testing posts after all!

    #14 2 years ago

    I noticed my schematics show the SC-01 speech chip as "optional".... so I assume they just left the chip out to make it sound-only version for the European market? Is this the case? BTW - which board version do you have?

    #15 2 years ago
    Quoted from sparky672:

    The dip switches on the sound board control attract mode, not the MPU... which is why I asked the question - as a means to further your troubleshooting. If attract mode is not working despite DIP settings then it's a problem narrowed down to the sound card.

    I know but since you mentioned you never had any attract sound it would be worth checking your DIP switches to set to to play them if it isn't set that way. If it still never plays them then that is an indication that the issue may be on the sound board itself and if so it won't matter if the sound signals actually get to the sound board or not.

    The sound signals do sort of take a convoluted path to the sound card. Need to find out if those signals are actually getting there. If they are then the sound board needs some work.

    #16 2 years ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    ...it would be worth checking your DIP switches to set to to play them if it isn't set that way. If it still never plays them then that is an indication that the issue may be on the sound board itself...

    I don't know why you were responding to me... that is the exact same troubleshooting suggestion that I made to the OP.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from sparky672:

    I don't know why you were responding to me... that is the exact same troubleshooting suggestion that I made to the OP.

    Didn't see where you had already suggested that. Seems that would be a good way for him to troubleshoot the sounds.

    #18 2 years ago
    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    Didn't see where you had already suggested that. Seems that would be a good way for him to troubleshoot the sounds.

    Totally agree. No worries.

    #19 2 years ago

    I found the doco for sounds dips (see pics). There are only 2 switches on my board and I tried different configs

    S1 - (OFF) Continuous sound / (ON) Scoring sounds only
    With this OFF - I hear the lava sound as described above (fist ball, first game, until any score is registered), then no sound at all
    With this ON - I hear no sounds ever

    S2 - (OFF) No Attract tune / (ON) Attract tune every 5 mins
    With this OFF - There are no attract sounds ever
    With this ON - There are no attract sounds ever
    HOWEVER - Attract sounds USED to work (every 5 mins), but consisted of what I now realise were SCORING sounds

    So - I think this is helpful.

    I believe this means an issue on the board itself, somewhere on the scoring sound path.

    My logic being that:

    1. The background (lava, non scoring) sound can actually be heard, at least briefly
    2. Scoring sounds I believe to be used in attract mode are never heard (when I presume no "score" signal is being created) - meaning it's probably not due to a failure in communication between MPU/Driver boards and sound board.

    PXL_20211006_034948682 (resized).jpgPXL_20211006_034948682 (resized).jpgScreen Shot 2021-10-06 at 12.50.04 pm (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-10-06 at 12.50.04 pm (resized).png
    #20 2 years ago

    The test button does nothing BTW!

    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from adfit:

    The test button does nothing BTW!

    That is a whole different sound card! I thought it would be the same sound card without the SC-01A added just like Haunted House. Apparently not. If you want speech you’ll need to get one of the larger sound boards.

    #22 2 years ago
    Quoted from adfit:

    I found the doco for sounds dips (see pics). There are only 2 switches on my board and I tried different configs

    That is not the same sound card in my US Volcano. I have the Sound & Speech card. Since my schematics show the SC-01 speech chip as "optional", I had assumed your European version had the same card but without the SC-01.

    Do you have the correct schematics to refer to?

    Quoted from adfit:

    The test button does nothing BTW!

    I sometimes noticed that on mine too.... however according to the book, machine must be in "Game Over" mode when you do the test.

    Quoted from Robotworkshop:

    If you want speech you’ll need to get one of the larger sound boards.

    The OP seems to have a problem with missing scoring sounds that he used to have. AFAIK, I don't believe he's asking about speech.

    #23 2 years ago

    Thanks for checking in both. Since my last post, I have remove the sound card, looking to see if there are voltage changes on the connector pins that meet it (coming from the driver board), during play, when scoring. There is! So I think I have narrowed this down to the board.

    I think I'm going to come to the limit of my skills soon. I can test diodes, caps etc, but I really don't know how to test the chips!

    sparky672 - No, I can't find this schematic. It's weirdly the only one referenced, but not IN the Sys 80 service manual. (Also, I've ordered the pins to get those original edge connectors back on, thanks for that tip)

    I'll keep at fixing this board (so any advice on that verty welcome) and while I do, also order a replacement. Worst thing that could happen is I have a spare (and less money in the bank!). There are a couple of replacement options I know about. Speech/Sound ones are not an option according to the back box! (see image)

    Screen Shot 2021-10-08 at 2.45.00 pm (resized).pngScreen Shot 2021-10-08 at 2.45.00 pm (resized).png
    #24 2 years ago
    Quoted from adfit:

    Speech/Sound ones are not an option according to the back box! (see image)

    Mine has that exact same warning tag. I have no idea what the idea was behind this warning, because AFAIK, the Sound & Speech boards for system 80 games are completely interchangeable as long as you use the correct ROM for your game. After all, the System 80 S&S schematics are nearly identical from any manual with a S&S board. And where it's not identical, Gottlieb recommended various changes to make it the same circuit as a rev 3.

    My Volcano is using a Sound & Speech board from a Gottlieb Caveman. The Volcano manual (1981 system 80) has the S&S rev 1 schematic and the Caveman manual (1982 system 80A) has the S&S rev 3 schematic. Completely interchangeable.

    Based on this Gottlieb tech newsletter from June 1981, I think that warning label was strictly meant for games with sound only, not Volcano.

    On Target - June 1981On Target - June 1981

    That being said, and based on the warning label, I don't know how your Volcano can be using the regular sound-only board. Maybe any sound/speech game can be safely downgraded to a sound-only board, but a sound-only game cannot be upgraded with a sound/speech board?

    And by Sept. 1981, same month Volcano was released, the Gottlieb newsletter was already describing the various sound & speech circuit modifications that make the board into what's equivalent to a rev 3.

    On Target - Sept 1981On Target - Sept 1981

    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from sparky672:

    Mine has that exact same warning tag. I have no idea what the idea was behind this warning, because AFAIK, the Sound & Speech boards for system 80 games are completely interchangeable as long as you use the correct ROM for your game.

    There are two versions of the soundboard for Volcano.
    Because of cost cutting some games have a 'small' soundboard only (called European version)
    - The 'small' 'MA55' Soundboard with 16sounds and NO speech
    - The 'Big' MA216 Soundboard with 32 sounds
    The game roms are different and need to be adapted.

    In addition the MA216 speech Board needs a seperate power supply 'A6' to generate the 30Volt DC needed.
    For Volcano A6 is installed in the cabinet, for other speech games it is installed in the backbox ( BH for example)
    The power supply connects to A7P10 in the backbox. The games with MA55 soundboards just have a 'strapping plug' here.

    This results in the different layouts for the edge connector A6J1 which connects to the soundcard (see picture attached)

    The critical parts are marked RED. Thats behind the warning of the not interchangeable soundboards.
    So BEFORE you use a different soundboard check if your game has installed the 'extra' power supply A6
    If not, and you want to use the 'big' speech soundboard you need to add a A6 power supply

    btw: by using my replacement soundboard 'GOSOF80' provide speech and can be used in BOTH variants,
    here you only need to change the game prom
    https://lisy.dev/gosof.html

    pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from bontango:

    There are two versions of the soundboard for Volcano.
    Because of cost cutting some games have a 'small' soundboard only (called European version)
    - The 'small' 'MA55' Soundboard with 16sounds and NO speech
    - The 'Big' MA216 Soundboard with 32 sounds
    The game roms are different and need to be adapted.
    In addition the MA216 speech Board needs a seperate power supply 'A6' to generate the 30Volt DC needed.

    As you state, two versions for Volcano... one is "sound/speech" and the other is "sound only".

    I have a Volcano with sound/speech and the OP has a Volcano with sound only. However, we both have the same label that says:

    "the sound board in this game is not interchangeable with the System 80 sound/speech board. If a sound/speech board is mistakenly installed in this game, it will be damaged."

    This label makes absolutely no sense as it is written, at least not for my game, which came with a system 80 sound/speech board (with the A6 power supply in bottom cabinet). Mine is a US game, and based on many physical clues, sound/speech is original.

    #27 2 years ago

    sparky672 I've decided to try the GOSOF board described above.

    I have tried to work through the original board and find the fault, researching chip testing methods (with DMM) online. I'm not confident though, and given that certain parts on that board are hard to find, I'll opt to build the redesigned one from scratch. Will hang on to the original for when my electronics skills are more advanced.

    I will update here when I have it installed, but could be a little while as it's shipping from Europe to Australia.

    Thanks bontango - as you probably worked out, I have ordered the components for the GOSOF and await them eagerly! Assuming that works, is it possible for me to program a PROM chip to make mine a speech version? Or would I need to source an original from somewhere?

    #28 2 years ago
    Quoted from adfit:

    Assuming that works, is it possible for me to program a PROM chip to make mine a speech version? Or would I need to source an original from somewhere?

    I'm working on that. The speech version of HH has an extended rom ( 8 KByte ), so my program needs to be adapted.
    Once it works, you just need to place the rom on the Gosof SD card

    HOWEVER: like for Gottlieb roms there is a copyright on the HH speech version rom!

    You can buy it here: https://www.flipprojets.fr/HHparlant_EN.php
    from the website: "Duplication of this ROM is prohibited and a unique serial number is assigned to it."

    1 month later
    #29 2 years ago

    Update on this. The issue was definitely on the sound board itself.

    I have a game with the "small board" for scoring sounds only. I ordered a Flippp replacement and it works fine:
    https://www.flippp.fr/pifx.php

    As my game is driven by a LISY80, I also decided to have a go at building the GOSOF board. Hoping that I can get a voice upgrade!
    https://lisy.dev/gosof80.html

    Still working on that board. Will update again when that's finished.

    1 week later
    #30 2 years ago

    Closing this out

    The GOSOF worked, but I'm afraid my soldering skills didn't make it a complete solution. I had voice, but no scoring sounds. Despite more than generous help from bontango , I'm using just the PIFX board, producing export game "sound only".

    Definitely recommend everyone having a go at some LISY D.I.Y. though

    Thanks to everyone that commented here to help.

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