(Topic ID: 261781)

Vitural vs real?


By Jjguy77

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 19 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by Bartzenegger
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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    #1 4 months ago

    Hey guys need some feedback in the virtual 4k pins are they worth it vs say a new Ghostbusters pin? If cost is the same $4500-$5000 what is the collective thinking on this? Are the vitural ones worth it or second place place to the real deal?

    #2 4 months ago

    You are never going to get anyone to say a virtual is as good, or near as good, as a real machine.

    People like virtual becasue you can play a variety of games that you might not have the ability to find near you, but obviously they are fake and nothing like a real machine.

    #3 4 months ago
    Quoted from Jjguy77:

    Hey guys need some feedback in the virtual 4k pins are they worth it vs say a new Ghostbusters pin? If cost is the same $4500-$5000 what is the collective thinking on this? Are the vitural ones worth it or second place place to the real deal?

    I use to want a virtual pin. And I think there are some advantages to them. One... You get more games on a cab than just 1 and also they are easier to move. And I wouldn't stress too much on maintenance. But, things can break, software can glitch out(after you update... happened to me more than once), and they are a great way to learn the rules of a real pin.

    Now, with that being said. I find that I have more fun even on a cheap beater pin than a virtual pin. I enjoy playing my night moves more often than I play pinball arcade or the f3 pinball. There is kinetic satisfaction that only a real game can give you. While I have had fun getting to wizard modes and beating them in AFM, TOTAN, TOM, Cactus Canyon, I always prefer to play the real game over the virtual one. Heck I don't think I've ever destroyed mars on a real AFM pinball machine(came close a few times). But, real is always better...

    And one minor point for the virtual. Games like Cactus Canyon are super rare in real life, but for virtual a great place to play them.

    I started making my own virtual cab before I bought my first pinball machine. I know own 8 and my cab still sits unfinished. And I really have nodesire to finish it.

    #4 4 months ago

    You can get a great Virtual Pin today that is "near as good as a real machine"!
    - Somebody had to say it

    And you can have 100 or 200 games in the same space as 1! Including lots of classics that I wouldn't want to try to buy them all.

    I've chosen to use 1 spot in my game room for a Virtual Pin instead of a real pin, because I get more fun/value out of that virtual than "another" real one. But I've already got plenty of real ones LOL. If I only had 1 pin, it would be a real one, not a virtual.

    #5 4 months ago

    There's a reason why we regularly see people selling virtual pins on here for a real game. Nothing beats a real pinball machine. Ghostbusters digital vs real play entirely different, its night and day.

    #6 4 months ago

    I'll try to lay out some pros and cons of virtual as I imagine you are going to get some straightforward "NO"'s here

    Pros:
    - Maintenance is nearly non-existent
    - A variety of "machines" to play on
    - The vertical cabinets are an excellent space saver
    - Some "machines" have effects that you can't do in the real version (The Walking Dead (Pro) having the zombie head behind the prison door look around and snap his mouth, the Eye of Sauron above one of the towers in Lord of the Rings watching the ball on the field, etc).
    - You can really mess with stuff. Can be fun to mess with ball physics, for example, even if just for laughs.
    - You can make and play your own machines

    Cons:
    - Even with haptic feedback nothing feels like the physical machine
    - The virtual cabs are massively overpriced. There's usually a computer consisting of about $500 worth of PC hardware (if that) and a mid to low end 4k monitor that on the generous end is about $800. Let's be generous and say there's another $800 worth of parts for shakers, dmd/lcd, buttons, etc.
    - No matter how good the screen is, you will know you are looking at a screen. Meaning there is a serious lack of "depth". Also, unless you are standing in playing position the perspective is going to be very odd. Multiplayer games suffer because it just isn't great to watch when it isn't your turn since you're so far to the side and the perspective isn't catered to you. You can't see behind bumpers/ramps/etc.
    - The selection of games, while wide, isn't really as big as it seems. A lot of games quite simply look like crap, but there are some really great ones. You may find a game you love in the wild but not be able to play it on your virtual cab.
    - Ball physics aren't being accurately replicated yet. Sure, they come close. But I have never seen a ball lose contact with the playfield in a virtual setting (it's always touching the ground). This isn't something that happens in real games. Balls hop all the time, even if just slightly. Also things like the rotation/spin of the ball aren't replicated well.
    - Nudging is terrible on virtual cabs. You can't finesse it. This is a serious handicap as nudging is very important in real games.
    - Plungers aren't replicated well. Makes skill shots frustrating on some games.

    I'm sure there's more.

    My advice? Set up Visual Pinball on your computer and mess around a bit with it. You'll get an accurate idea of what a virtual cab will be like. They're fun, I play The Walking Dead (Premium/LE) all the time on it, but that's because it is totally free. I wouldn't spend $500 on a larger virtual version of that experience, much less $5k.

    #7 4 months ago

    K1ngFiasco summed it up pretty well, although I used actual pinball mechs for haptic feedback and the "feel" is awesome.

    Virtual is a fun project if you're building it out of parts and are ok with the variable quality of games (most are made by volunteers). Premade cabs don't seem like a good value to me. Once you start talking a budget of a few thousand dollars I can't imagine doing anything but buying a real pin.

    #8 4 months ago

    Space, Miss Teschmacher, it’s all about space...

    Not too many of us have the space for 100 machines, but we do have space for 6 or 7, and one just so happens to be a virtual cabinet I built myself using and old Roller Games cabinet. Best use of a Roller Games machine in my book, (I can already feal the hate swelling in the hearts of the SR fans). But I own 6 real machines, and I play real and virtual machines because they are both fun.

    Now, put all the purists on a deserted island with one virtual cabinet with 200 games on it and lets see how long before the basketball jones of the silverball has them punching up games and playing. I like to think of my virtual cabinet as a safety net for wanting to spend too much on real machines... I have real ones to play, and all the 90’s B/W on my virtual plus all the other machines you may or may not wish to play. Since owning the virtual cabinet, my desire to own some machines has definitely faded, while it strengthens my desire for others... Dont want a AFM or a MM anymore, but I would still be in the market for a real Totan, TOM, TAF, Centaur, Fire Power... Fun House, Fireball, EBD... you get the picture.

    #9 4 months ago

    They both have a place. I have both and at times nothing compares to a real pin experience, but to be fair some of the things zen studios is doing is pretty fun to play as well. I guess it all depends on what your expectations are when you are comparing the two.

    #10 4 months ago
    Quoted from Zwovr6:

    They both have a place. I have both and at times nothing compares to a real pin experience, but to be fair some of the things zen studios is doing is pretty fun to play as well. I guess it all depends on what your expectations are when you are comparing the two.

    I like the rewind option...
    That to me is fun. Wish they had a mode that would have more powerups able to activate on each table... Virtual is different. Embrace the video game aspect... But, still stay true to the table. That way I can get the best of both worlds.

    The main thing I really do like though. Is that I can experience more games and rare games. But, also game modes and animations. I got and beat the wizard mode in junk yard... Good luck to find one of those games, and I probably would never have a game that good in person... Or I'd have to really grind, and grind away.

    #11 4 months ago

    Honestly, I’m most likely going to get a virtual pin in the future. I have a friend who loads up a bunch of pins we don’t have access to before I go play in larger tournaments. While it’s not the real deal, there’s some instances that there is zero lag and I’ve been able to practice the sequences of different parts of the game and figure out rulesets along the way. It has made a difference in my overall game and enjoyment.

    That being said, if I’m going to shell out 4-5k for a virtual pin, it better have the best parts money can by for the computer, etc. Otherwise 99 times out a 100 I’m opting for a real pin.

    #12 4 months ago

    I will say....BUILDING a virtual machine is the fun part, adding tables is fun...but eventually the upkeep (and upgrades if necessary) wears kind of thin. I don't know that I would spend the money to just go buy one already built. I would also say, the PC required to build a nice one is WAY more than $500 in most cases - that might be just the video card alone, including all the other things you need to make it more 'realistic'.

    They are fun to play if you like video games. No they will never replace a real pin, but when I built mine it did help me to not buy any new pins for quite some time. I think where they really shine is the original tables, and physics/interactions that can be done in virtual tables that can't be done on real tables. (Think the FX2/3 tables, etc). Playing them on a lifesize table is funner than on your phone or tv. It certainly is cheaper and takes up less room than 10 more pins

    #13 4 months ago
    Quoted from Jjguy77:

    Hey guys need some feedback in the virtual 4k pins are they worth it vs say a new Ghostbusters pin?

    What's your budget? Space? Technical ability?

    You can be playing the Pinball Arcade version of Stern Ghostbusters Premium right now if you have a gaming PC, Gaming Console, or iOS device. The program is free and that table is ~$9 to unlock. Zero technical expertise required. Load it up and see if virtual pinball is for you.

    #14 4 months ago

    It's like the difference between watching a video of a rollercoaster ride, and actually going on the rollercoaster ride.

    #15 4 months ago

    I'm working on "finishing up" our own virtual pinball build, Radiant Silverball. And I can agree with a lot of the opinions; it's great for learning rules, and playing tables you won't see unless you make a trip to one of the few museums that would have one out to play on (and sometimes not even then), and dealing with a lack of space for pinball (we have, erm, room for at most two, Radiant Silverball in one slot, Solar Ride in the other right now). But it's not really pinball. It's an effort to get a virtual cabinet "dialed in" so that nudging works even half-well (by playing with software settings and the position of the accelerometer within the cabinet). Other feedback devices can lag. Any prebuilt machine sold by a Lazy Commercial Pincab Seller (read: those who package Visual Pinball and unlicensed copies of real tables) is going to be underpowered and roughly tuned, so the best experience is brought if you build your own machine, but it's as much work as rebuilding a real pinball machine with nothing more than a donor playfield and aftermarket MPU.

    I will also go along with the majority; install the software and try it on your desktop, but be aware that your best route is to put on your Maker hat. If you're not a Maker, and don't enjoy it, it's not likely that a virtual pincab is for you, as even the Lazy Commercial Pincab Seller offerings are going to probably start demanding some work to improve it.

    BTW, I do enjoy playing on our virtual machine, even in an incomplete state. I suspect part of it is that I just like playing games, real or virtual, and part of it is that I've made this machine with my own two hands.

    #16 4 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    It's like the difference between watching a video of a rollercoaster ride, and actually going on the rollercoaster ride.

    ^^^THIS^^^. I couldn’t have said it any better.

    #17 4 months ago

    Get your virtual kicks from TPA on your phone or tablet and buy real pinball machines.

    #18 4 months ago

    Looking into virtual pinball brought me to real pinball so for that I am thankful. But real any day over virtual.

    #19 4 months ago

    Great feedback guys! I appreciate all your thoughts and opinions. Seems like the conclusions is clear!

    #20 4 months ago
    Quoted from ForceFlow:

    It's like the difference between watching a video of a rollercoaster ride, and actually going on the rollercoaster ride.

    well, sorta. I would say it is much more interactive and much more feedback than watching a video of someone playing pinball, especially if you are on a virtual cabinet. my virtual cab I push real flipper buttons, pressing real leaf switches, and the software actually fires real flipper mechs in the virtual cab for sound and feel, I can nudge the cabinet and the software transfers the nudge to the playfield/ball (this is one of the weaker areas, but it does do something), a pop bumper goes off in the software and it fires actual pop bumper mechs in the cab, same with chimes, knocker, bell, etc, etc (yes all those are in my virtual cab). it really depends on how far you want to go with your virtual, if you only play on a desktop pressing keyboard buttons or on an ipad or something then I would say yes, falls way short.

    The other side, at least for me, was designing and building the whole thing and getting it all working and adding all the cool stuff I wanted, that is a lot of fun for me as well. No way would I pay someone thousands of dollars for a pre-built one, but that's me, your mileage may vary.

    I also make recreations of machines and originals in visual pinball (VPX) as well, a whole other side to the hobby, design your own game, code it and actually get to play it basically for free.

    #21 4 months ago

    I have had my self made virtual pin for many yrs. and I love it along with my 10 pins.
    There are tables like stranger things or Harry Potter that are badass.
    No it’s not real but neither are those racing games at Dave and busters. Yet they are fun too.
    I really do love mine

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