Looks like it’s improved since my last visit.

I hope you got your money back?

John

PHOS

Looks lovely.

Salty

There are continually larger and larger pinball museums/massive collections opening by the month.
Tim really needs to learn how to let competent techs make independent decisions before the PHOF is surpassed by those who can.

Rob Berk’s collection in Ohio is insane. A fantastic group of very talented and capable techs. Plenty of rare games Tim doesn’t have and is opening next year...

I do hope things turn around. We used to go to vegas alot per covid and always would spend like half a day at the PHOF when we visited, but seeing the new location and so many experiences. Video tours on youtube also really paint a grim picture. I understand the situation, but it's not a sustainable one if this keeps up.

Did you go there to take pics or play pinball?

When pinball is off the table, pics are all he had left. Well, he might have been able to play T3.

Should of just continued down the strip, so many better pics.

Those pictures only tell small part of the story. They have over 400 games on site and 10% aren’t working. Over 350 working games there. A few of the above pictures also appear to be from the storage non working game area in the back corner.

Maybe those pics are coming later!

10%? When was the last time you were there? I was there recently and at least 60%- 70% were out of order.

Tim explained the issues he's facing in the main PHOF thread. Hopefully, things will improve in the future.

They are so busy they need a lot more staff and a dedicated walled off area to do service so the floor doesn't give this bad impression.
Vegas used to be a cheap trip but just eating 3 times a day will put you in the poor house now.

"Check back with me tomorrow"

I had to LOL at this. I think it should say "Check back with me in a couple years (maybe)"

I go to Vegas at least once a year and always stop at the PHOF. Their JM has been down for at least 5 years.

I was just there in August and the big WFT moment for me was all those boxes and bags stacked up.

Seeing that they are still there, I just SMH.

That’s an embarrassment. Why even bother with a place.

Well, working is an relative term, or at least it was last time I was there.

If by working you mean the ball is kicked out and the flippers work, then yeah. Otherwise...

Way too many games in really pitiful shape. And the bad part is too many people think this is how EMs play.

This is very true. I managed to visit next level in Oregon, dang! Over 400 machines, all immaculate, even modded, pretty crazy, 8 full time techs, if they had EM's it would be all over.
Ppm is amazing too, 100 games but they have an awesome crew of volunteer techs that are dedicated to keeping the games working right.
Too bad the PHOF is such a let down.
B

I was given a “first and final warning” because I lightly nudged a cab because of a ball that was stuck between a sling and a pop, which I would presume long term would have caused an issue. I tried to explain to the tech what I did, to which they said “talk to the hand” while showing me their palm.

After that incident I haven’t put another quarter in any of their pins and will never again and I go to Vegas 2-5 times a year

Was just there this last week. Such a disappointment. I think it’s gotten worse since I went to his old location. Best part of the place is the sign out front. I know why he’s doing it. I know it’s for charity. I know it’s been successful. Yep. I get all that. If you want the real PHOF though, go to Next Level in Portland. Somehow they can keep every one of their 400 machines (over half pinball) running in absolutely top notch condition. Tons of memorabilia too. Such a cool place. PHOF is a tourist money grab for a good cause. It’s not for Pinsiders who want to actually play fully working games.

Sounds like the techs are part of the problem. Good grief...

I love pinball and promote it when I can, but damn does PHOF make it hard to promote!

It really seems to have changed so much since it moved. Is there just too much more traffic in the new location, too many people playing and not techs to handle the flow?

Worst part was having three of these on the floor apparently.

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That coin door on Jokerz/ Popeye though….and the work to get all the carriage bolts in.

Funny you posted this…I didn’t take pictures but I was there yesterday Saturday 10/15….

Hell I bet 50% of the games were off….no Godzilla no Catus Canyon remake (old one yes)…

Of the games that were on played like shit, totally blown out, stuck balls, weak ass flippers. I am all for understanding the plight of someone who has to maintain hundred of machines but it looks like a junk pile. Block off an area to work on machines…take them off the play area. Put up a wall for a work area. Pay some staff to keep things going…he’ll charge more to keep shit up.

I have been to Next Level in Oregon and there machines and the whole atmosphere is amazing…I will spare myself the next visit to PHOF and just go to Next Level. Food trucks outside collector stuff all over. But to be fair I have heard Next Level is not self supporting from its operations, there is a lot of family wealth that went into it, they are a pinball distributor as well. They charge a very fair price and you don’t have to worry about quarters for each game.

Maybe PHOF should learn that lesson…I had a hard time spending $10 on machines (I don’t really play EM’s). My Uber cost more then I spent there on playing games…

It was disappointing and I contributed to the PHOF when he was using GoFundMe.

It is worse in the new space. I only comment to hope it improves not to trash the place, because if things don’t change no one will go to a place where nothing is working.

Going to be there next weekend, I also contributed to the gofundme. Sounds like I will be disappointed!

At least he has his printer working. That’s always the hardest part for me.

Wasn't *that* bad when I visited earlier this year but I remember the distinct feeling that I would have a lot more fun there if I had my repair bag.

The last couple of times I've gone practically every game I wanted to play was broken. It definitely went even further downhill after they moved. Not that the old location was amazing either; it constantly had tons of broken games then too.

I go to Vegas constantly for work and haven't bothered to make my way to the HOF on my recent trips.

Hey wamonkey,
Where did you get the info on next level being supported by a wealthy family? I was told it was owned by a mailman, not a rich guy. It's a co-op correct? Techs are part owners right? Or do you have different info?
B

Earlier in the year it was pretty good. I'd guess 60% of the machines were working.

I visit once to twice a month and the last few months has been entirely different, unfortunately.

Wonder if they need to consider like, closing down for a week or two to really just focus on cleaning up the place and working on the machines. Really the more that breaks down, the worse it gets as more is just going to fail and the people who go are going to be stuck all playing the same machines that are working till they do break. Seems like they will just keep breaking faster than they get fixed.

Ouch. This thread makes me sad

I heard the family owns a construction company or something and helped them get set up. I don't recall who told me that someone I bought a machine from in PDX. Big pinball culture in Portland I figure they ought to know.

I have been to Next Level multiple times and never seems packed it is a large place with a ton of VERY well maintained machines. Seems like a bit of a hobby company to me, meaning if it breaks even on utilities and monthly expenses excluding the facility that is likely a win. I recall I only paid $20-25 or something to get in, maybe 50-75 people in the this huge place on a weekend.... you tell me.... does that seem like a money maker? The parking lot is not huge....you make a couple grand a weekend...you pay staff, electricity, rent, taxes, maintenance on all the machines. Maybe a bunch of people loaned machines and they get a lot help comp'ed but if the place was heavy volume it would not look that good.

My original comment on PHOF was I had a hard time spending $10 and played for an hour maybe a little more. AN Uber cost more....how does a place cover expenses and repair machines if you cannot spend much money there. LED's even bough in bulk cost on the low end what $0.30-70 each, rubbers maybe the same and you take in only $10-20 for the average customer, ok you need a new coil for a machine all the money I spent is gone....how many people come through the door? The more that come through the door and play, the more you need to maintain and invest in machines.

This is not routing games at some bar and charging $1 a play this is 400 machines under one roof, many older ones. People I know who route games say they prefer modern games because the uptime is better, they do not want any older BW games, only modern Sterns to just take the cash and then replace the game over time.

I'm sorry, but I can't help laughing every time I read this post. I can just see Joe Pesci doing that in Lethal Weapon.

Every time I go to Vegas, I’ll definitely stop by the PHOF. Better to spend $20 for hours of play than to lose it in a slot machine in a few minutes. That being said, I do agree that many of the games need to be serviced more. Simple shit like making sure the flippers are correctly lined and working right would go a long way. I also agree that the games that are torn down and look like junk should be placed in a separate work area so it doesn’t look like such an eyesore in the main area. Hire more people to service the games!!!

For the past 15 years (or longer) people have been complaining about the way Tim runs his business. Yet somehow he has managed to give hundreds of thousands of dollars to charity and has now built a multi million dollar building with a half million dollar sign out front and has little to no debt.

As I have said before - if you don't like the place just go somewhere else!

PHoF is not going to change as long as Tim is in charge. And once Tim is no longer doing it I doubt PHoF will exist long term.

So in the end you have one of two choices: either go and enjoy the machines that are working or just don't go at all. I am sure Tim would be just as glad if you didn't show up if all you can do is post negative stuff about the place.

$175k is a nice help. 370AFBA3-2BAF-4D68-8F74-942BD5E22C49 (resized).jpeg

I think at this point, Skip just copy/pastes his response.

I think the more important point is the impression that will be left on all the newbies who experience pinball for the first time at PHOF. If the games are not in good working order then they will be frustrated and not want to play again, and pinball will leave a bad taste in their mouth. We’re trying to grow this hobby and spread the word how great pinball is.

Funny - I agree with you, I think Tim could care less if we played the games. Glad he is debit free and does what he does. But if the turth is negative it is negative. Maybe it is constructive criticsim, I think a place like this needs one day a week to be closed to service games and keep things organized. I personally think Tim likely lives there almost around the clock and it is a labor of love, clearly he works hard to keep it all going. But, people can work their asses off and still not get ahead. Sometimes people need help or need a plan. It is not good enough to be debt free running a business, you need steady income, solid cash flow, a desireable product or service, etc. Low expenses are great but strong revenues make up more then low expenses...you cannot save your way into prosperity.

If he wanted to run a warehouse with non-working games in it, he should have just leased a building and let people walk through it for $10 and take pictures. Like the Neon Museum.

I know Tim works hard, I have seen him there at all hours when I have went there inthe past and I supported his GoFundMe because I was unable to visit during the pandemic and would have spent $100 there if we would have visited. But, as a customer over time you can lose us if you do not work on your product. Should we lie and say everything is great instead?

But this isn't a problem for 15 years, this is all essentially what has started to happen since they moved to their new location. The PHOF always had machines down and it's ups and downs but it was pretty much fine for years. But since it moved to the new location and especially since COVID, it really seems the place is struggling to keep it's operation going smoothly. It NEVER was like this before and almost seems like its just getting worse the more it's brought to light here.

I know he's dealing with alot and their situation, but from a business perspective, having managed businesses most of my life and owner of a factory, it looks like way too much is going on with the evidence provided and that it's gonna reach a blowing over point possibly. The amount of down equipment seems to just keep growing, and with what Tim has said about how things are, it really feels like... "how are things going to get better?" When your customer traffic is being funneled to a smaller pool of machines, it's putting more stress on those machines and increasing the chance of their being breakage. The more machines down, the more pressure being put on the ones that are working. If machines are breaking down faster than they are getting repaired.... well you know that's not going to end well.

What can be done? Hire actual non volunteer techs? Put out open call for help from the community to come out and send help? As I mentioned before... consider shutting down for a while to focus on fixing and cleaning up the place to try and catch up. Cause Vegas is pretty crazy and can get waves of tourists, so your trying to fix machines while also dealing with paying customers at all long hours? This is not an easy situation. But doing what is being done currently is clearly not working

OK - Here is my issue with all of this. I'll try to keep it as short as possible and break in down into 5 main points.

First off Tim is by far the most successful arcade operator in the world so why would he change the way he does things?

Second - yes Tim did start a go-fund-me to raise a little extra money because of unforeseen issues Covid caused. But that $200,000 from the go-fund-me amounted to less than 1/2 of what the sign alone cost so it isn't like everyone "stepped up" and funded 1/2 the cost of the new building or anything like that.

Third - Tim devotes nearly 100 hours a week (for free & not even taking lunch money out of the PHoF budget) according to what the volunteers told me when I was talking to them on one of my visits. Any rational person would have retired at his age instead of taking on something like that new building but Tim loves to work and to give back to society so that is what he does.

Fourth - If you don't like what is going on at PHoF why not volunteer and help Tim get machines fixed instead of bitching about the place.

And lastly is the "definition of insanity" -- definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Basically everyone knows Tim isn't going to change so why keep beating a dead horse.

Now for why I always jump in and defend Tim. It isn't because I know him well in fact the two times I talked to him in person he was as abrasive as everyone says he is & maybe even a little worse. But he is human and I know I wouldn't like to keep reading negatives about what I was doing if I was working my ass off FOR FREE and I was doing all I could to keep improving things.

Again it is really pretty simple - either just accept PHoF for what it is / volunteer to help make it better / or just don't go at all. But bottom line is expecting things to change as long as Tim is running the place is a perfect example of insanity.

Have fun debating how things should be / what Tim should be doing / etc. Bottom line is it is what it is and it isn't going to change just because a few Pinsiders think it should.

This is a too simple way of looking at it though. Clearly there is a growing problem, how is this not evident? So your first point of Tim knows what he's doing.... is it really? Cause things don't seem to be looking too hot right now and seem to be getting worse.

Helping out... how? Many of us would be useless as we don't have tech experience so again, how are we gonna go help, especially if we don't live anywhere nearby. Perhaps theres a way to donate to help? Sure, why not, i'm sure some would be happy to, but it's not like we all have know how or bags of tools ready to go to vegas and work.

And not going... well that's a terrible solution that does no help to anyone. Folks love the PHOF and they are concerned cause they do. So instead of being concerned they should just F off? That helps no one