Has Pinball Arcade for PC updated to allow the DMD on a 2nd monitor yet?

BAM also helps with alot of the rendering and the physics settings, but the tables need to have the correct config file for it to work properly. If you aren't running BAM with FP, you're missing out. http://www.ravarcade.pl/

The head tracking is awesome but I've had some issues with the Kinect for xbox360 due to it's depth restrictions, supposedly Kinect for Windows works much better.

Unit3D Pinball is really where it's at though, even in their Alpha build. Development is slow right now but the dev's have been keeping in touch with the community and hope to have another update out in the next few months.
unit3dpinball.net

Tesla is my current favorite, and for whatever reason, I'm drawn to the Blade table, it's pretty fun. Every time I play Iron Man the vibration motors in my controller get locked on, so I haven't played that much(XBOX). I don't have the PC version yet.

In the TV's setting, you'll likely want to disable anything that says Dynamic or Automatic. Sometimes using the VGA port or component inputs can reduce lag, depends on the TV. When you install it in your cab, be mindful of the viewing angle, I see some people setting the head end lower and this makes the problem worse. I'll be mounting mine parallel to the glass, if you set the in game camera properly, it will look perfect. too many times I see where people zoom into the table and you can't see the sidewalls in the virtual game. This is what helps it look more real, but everyone has an opinion on it. It's like LED's vs Incandescent bulbs argument.

Thank you for that Roo. Good info!

How does the backglass work with Pinball FX (ZEN)?

I haven't used HyperPin in a while but PinballX is very easy to configure, loads fast, and is stable. From my understanding, Hyperpin is picky about file names, everything has to be exact, Once you configure PinballX, you just pick the table from a list.

Try both, they are free and can co-exist.

Yes, FP is 3D, Get BAM if you are using FP, it makes it so easy and if supports head tracking and 3D displays.

BAM - http://www.ravarcade.pl/

There are legal reason behind this due to the simulator licenses and the copyrights on the tables. If you found someone who builds them or owns one, you may be able to get a copy of the hard drive from them, but they shouldn't be sold with them loaded.

As far as building your own, you can start with a smaller one. I'm making a tabletop one right now with a 24 inch playfield screen and a old 17 inch square monitor for the backbox. Get the software working, wire up some flipper buttons and start button to and old game pad and you got something to play. After that it's just making it bigger and adding force feedback and more input options.

Another idea for an easy first VPin is don't try to house the computer inside, just run a USB hub, Video and a audio cable out to your normal PC and use it as a "controller" with screens.

I wish there was a Virtual Pinball or Pinball Simulator section here on the forums, it would be nice to see some build threads.

You can import your hyperpin config directly into PinballX
http://www.gameex.info/forums/topic/13736-pinballx-documentation/

Hold off until the next release of Unity Pinball (Unit3D Pinball) before you decide. It looks like it's going to be amazing.

I just got this email. Can't view the video's at work, but I expect it to be awesome.

"2 more tables to come with the BETA version"

Very.

You literally grab the screen and drag it to your backglass and resize.

You can do that now with the alpha version, give it a try.

It's really cool, did you custom make the lock down bar? I really need to get mine finished up. Do you have any force feedback? What are you using for nudge?

One questions, why did you tilt the screen back? I don't understand why people do this, you can tilt the virtual playfield in the game, all this does is increacses the viewing angle and makes the screen wash out.

You may just have the aspect set wrong also. Can you post a screenshot?

Any you can import your HyperPin config if you have one. It's a pretty slick interface and the setup application makes it real easy.

BAM for FP is awesome. You can even do head tracking. It makes setting up a cab for FP super easy.

Keep an eye out for U3D, It will make the rest of the simulators moot. Cab setup is as simple as dragging a window. Beta is supposed to be coming out soon.

http://www.unit3dpinball.net/index.php?pa=showcase&categ=0

It uses FP tables as the base, Unity as the graphics engine. It has DirectOutput support for LED's Flashers and Solenoids etc. You can run the cabinet and game sound on different adapters so you can simulate the force feedback sounds with a speaker inside the cab while the game audio comes out the speakers in the head. Also included is support for Oculus Rift VR and possibly head tracking with kinect or PSeye.

The alpha version might be tricky to get going but it's already ahead of FP.

The screen should be parallel with the glass. You want to leave a little room for airflow. If the viewing angle on your display looks washed out, you may need to have it tilted slightly toward the player.

I still haven't figured out why people angle them like that, I'm sure there is a reason, I just don't know what it is. Maybe to fit some lights below the glass in the back?

You have to take perspective into account. You aren't replicating a playfield on the screen, you are replicating the view through the glass. You should be able to see the sides and back of the cabinet ON THE SCREEN. Putting the screen where the playfield is makes everything look flat because your brain is expecting them to be higher than the plane of the screen(playfield) where when you put the screen at the top, everything can go deeper into the cabinet(not physically just from your perspective).

Unfortunately some of the simulators don't allow you to adjust for perspective such as VP as it's a 2D simulator. You can do this with FP and if you run BAM with it, you can have it automaticly adjust the perspective with head tracking. This is why I'm so excited for Unit3D Pinball, it plays better than FP but is still an actual 3D simulation that you can move the camera around in.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, it's hard to explain without seeing it in person.

Think of it this way. Imagine if they took the PAPA overhead camera and output the video into a virtual cabinet's playfield screen and then connected the buttons from the virtual pin cabinet to the real pinball machine's flipper buttons that has the camera over it. You could play it, but it would look wrong. Your brain knows that the way things are shaped and what you can and can't see isn't what you would expect. This is Visual Pinball.

Now imagine you moved the overhead camera to be right where your head would be when you are playing and the camera angle adjusted so it's looking down at the playfield just as it would be when you are playing. If you stood in front of the real machine and the VPin the playfield would look the same. This is FP/UP

Now imagine you put motion sensors on your head and whenever you moved your head in front of this "virtual pinball" screen the camera on the real pinball machine moved to match. It would look very much like you are playing an actual pinball machine. It would be similar to playing a real pinball machine with one eye closed because while you have the correct perspective you wouldn't have the stereoscopic depth. This is FP+BAM and hopefully UP in the future.

I wish I could explain it better. Here's a BAM video, it shows head tracking but it demonstrates why the screen looks better at the top of the cab rather than where the playfield would reside.

What I was saying (if this was directed at my comments) is that having the TV at the proper height in the cab helps to create the illusion that there is a playfield in the cabinet. You are correct that the VP won't look different because you can't move the camera and depth in VP (though you may be able to now, I haven't used VP since 9 came out).

I agree that FP physics suck, but what is good about FP is that all the mechanisms and models in the game are 3d models and as such, you can rotate the camera around them to adjust for the players perspective

This is not entirely true, there are a couple different display technologies and some have far better side viewing angles than others.

https://pcmonitors.info/articles/lcd-panel-types-explored/

I'm not talking about viewing angle, I only mentioned it because on a modern cabinet the glass is at a steeper angle than the playfield (where early SS and EM era were parallel). The point I was trying to make that I clearly did not explain well is that having the monitor closer to the glass allows for creating a more realistic illusion of an actual playfield being in the cabinet.

To each their own, as the new versions of these simulators are released with these advanced options you will understand what I mean. The display doesn't represent the playfield, it represents the top of the cabinet that you are looking through.

Granted it's purely aesthetics and personal preference but when you see the effect in person you will get what I'm talking about.

Regardless, I'm glad this thread was a debate about screens and perspective and stuff and not "It's not real pinball".

Have a nice weekend everyone!

85Vett hit the nail on the head there.

Most all the tables in VP and FP are unlicensed so the cabinet manufactures can't sell them with licensed tables installed. They will usually have the software loaded and configured but any unauthorized fan made tables will have to be loaded by you.

Zen pinball has a cabinet mode but does not have real tables, but the fantasy tables they have are well done and for the most part play like a real table. On PC it's called Pinball FX2 and comes with 1 or 2 free tables. Only supports force feedback in the form of controller vibration.

Pinball Arcade has licensed tables and TotAN comes with it for free. It has a portrait mode but currently has no backbox support and you can't move the DMD off of the playfield screen. Only supports force feedback in the form of controller vibration.

If you are looking to get a cabinet I would recommend getting VP and FP running on a desktop PC in their current versions. Learn how to configure multiple monitors, the front end (menu system, either PinballX or HyperPin) and add tables etc. If you can do it on a desktop, it's the same on the cabinet with the exception of monitor rotation etc.

There are a few bits of hardware that would be in a purchased cab that you wouldn't have for the desktop unless you were building one. These are:

IPAC - Keyboard emulator board for buttons
LEDWiz - Output controller for force feedback and lighting, shaker motor etc.
Some form of nudge/accelerometer device, sometimes these are built into the plunger unit. Others use videogame controllers like a microsoft sidewinder or Wii Remote.

The VP forums are the best resourse, in addidion, the following site would be helpfull
VPfourms.org
http://www.gopinball.com/forum/
http://vpuniverse.com/index.php/index.html

This isn't really an accurate comparison, Projectors theoretically have a 180 degree viewing angle. An LCD television uses a completely different display technology than a projector.

There isn't really a right or wrong way to have your Vpin. If you like it and are happy with it, that's all that matters.

PM Sent

I'll say it one last time. The stuff I was talking about didn't have to do with viewing angle. I'm talking about creating the illusion of an actual playfield inside the cabinet and it cannot be achieved with the screen down in the cabinet. The viewing angle is irrelevant to what I was talking about.

I think the point I'm trying to make is getting lost in the shuffle of viewing angles. When I build another cab I'll take some pics and video and try to explain it better. Sorry for any confusion.

I never said that! If this is an attempt to troll me then you win. If it's not then you misunderstood the point I was making, please try reading it again.

I have also used a (wired) gamepad instead of the ipac. Most times you can decase the controller and solder right to the pads on the board, you can also use the analog pots for your plunger controls and nudge. I prefer the gamepad over the ipac because of the keyboard repeat, like if you hold down a key, the computer interrupts the signal and repeats, just like if you hold the 'Q' key on your keyboard you get QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ. I believe this causes input latency if not properly configured in your keyboard driver (Repeat rate off or 0 ).

I know a few people with the iPac that don't have any issue with it, this is just my preference and it seems I always have a broken controller around.

For the cabinet, if you aren't going full size you can repurpose an old bookcase or kitchen cabinet. I've done it, but in the end it would have been just as much effort to build a cab from scratch than modifying an existing box but it did come out nice.

I look forward to seeing the VPins in person at Allentown. only 1 week away!

You can run it in portrait mode but as stated, the DMD is stuck on the playfield screen.

There was a press release last year the Farsight was working to create a coin-op version of TPA, I believe this is why we will never see the promised cabinet mode from them.

Unity Pinball Beta is out!
http://www.unit3dpinball.net/

http://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=31874

It was mention in the thread above that they are looking to add head tracking if that's what you meant by BAM. most of the other setting BAM has can be adjusted in the options or table settings. I hope now that it's Beta, they will update it more frequently. It has so much potential, and they added the ACD table that made me fall in love with that game.

I'm having some issues running it. It played better for me in the alpha but I'm pretty sure it's a problem on my computer. I'm only getting about 20-40FPS where I was getting 50-90 in the alpha.

To increase performance turn off Vsync and set the ball reflection to low. I don't use any anti-aliasing either.

I'm not sure if it would give you the same effect. The head tracking really is amazing when you see it in person, it looks like there is a real playfield under the glass with the glass being the plane of the screen(that's why I like my screen close to the real glass). Have you tried the head tracking on BAM?

Do you think they will ever give Virtual Pinball it's own forum section, with Zen, TPA, VP, FP, UP etc? It seems, at least from talking to other players and listening to podcasts that many pinball players also enjoy Virtual Pinball (I prefer pinball simulator). I think (hope) we are past the whole 'it's not as good as the real thing' argument.

Maybe Someday..

I don't know. I think maybe FP or one of the other sims had ball following. seems like it would look weird.