I really wish they would offer a display upgrade or use a different monitor all together for the Ultra VP machine . That industrial grade (LG) 4K 60hz playfield monitor that comes with it is very low quality. It should be hanging on the wall of an airport lobby displaying CNN instead of being used in a upper spec Vpin. If I’m spending that much coin I’d expect the most important part of the machine to use the highest quality displays available, not the cheapest.

Why? Not if you pay for the software and someone else is doing all the work for you with game updates,fixing bugs, led lighting, adding new jukebox videos, figuring out online connectivity, adding non flipper games etc. I don't have to waist my time which is the way it should be and if they want virtual to get off the ground thats the direction a company needs to go. All the time you spend doing updates etc only benefits you and your game. Why shouldn't it be a service,do it once, and update thousands of other games as well? The people who don't play often and don't feel like spending hours with updates are the ones being left behind. I've seen it a hundred times.

For the guys looking for plug and play and not expecting to know anything about how this all works, something is going to break and will lead to frustration. Nature of pc. Just be aware of that.

Also this ultra vp machine it’s so over priced it’s ridiculous. I know many who are buying have no idea how this all comes together but for someone who does, man that is a killing for them.

What bothers me is like someone said - the pf tv on this is garbage and still costs a ton. Everyone - you need a monitor that is 120hz. It’s required to make the game feel smooth.

Forget virtual pinball builds that take up a a lot of space and are 2d. Go with virtual reality vive index with vp vr. Basically Vpx in 3d

Isn‘t this exactly what the Visual Pinball community is complaining about ? - commercial vendors of virtual pinball devices taking the software of the developers without permission and selling them with their hardware?

I question this a bit - playfield size 4k and >60hz monitors are still pretty exotic. And to drive 4k and for instance 144hz properly you will need a monster graphic card…Sure, bigger is always better, but can the eye really discern more than 60hz?

It would be good if there would be some better option for people to watch the gameplay when one plays in VR. The VR-image on the screen hovers around, so its not that usable. Best option would be VR for the player and the regular cabinet for the other people to watch the gameplay...

Briks-707 if you think the playfield monitor is poor quality than you should take it up with the seller at Rec Room World and suggest what monitor he should use. you can complain about the cost. I agree it's alot of money for a machine. but if you don't have the skill or know how on the electronics to build one and setting up the software then this is well worth it. the machine I had custom built I wasted 5 years on and havent been able to figure out the front end software or pup packs.. just to figure out loading tables was tedious enough. so this Ultra vp is perfect for me. . you wanna talk about cheap components look at VpCabs. hes been selling the same machine for how many years. nothing has improved or updated. the UltraVp blows the doors off the competition. Ultra Vp doesnt sell the software or tables it's handled through a third party vendor.

This makes perfect sense for the casual vpinball fan (which I realize is the majority of users), but what those casual people don’t realize is the only reason why this entire hobby exists at all is because of all of the tables (and backglasses, alt sound/altcolor packages, front end art etc. ) that are painstakingly recreated by very talented table authors and are available to download for free from a few key sites. Obviously you have things like Pinball FX3 with fully licensed real and fantasy tables, but the hundreds and hundreds of free other tables are what really drives the innovation of the hobby. Due to these commercial vendors who often bulk scrape sites and are more than happy to pass the support strain off to others, you have started seeing key sites shut down and some amazing authors stop making tables (or they have gone further underground and are only sharing it with a few trusted folks, if any at all). Such is the nature when hobbies typically turn into a more commercial enterprise for some, but I think it’s important to realize the future and lifeblood of the hobby are those content creators whose simple ask of NOT being included in commercial products is being ignored. Whatever people’s opinion are on these types of things, biting the hand that feeds is rarely a good idea.

I am a professional cgi artist myself and I plan to create tables in the future. I will go into it knowingly that it will be copied and stolen just like all games are for playstation etc. I'm going to do it for the love and hobby and hope these artist are as well. If they are going into it thinking they can make a living at it independently, stealing the sounds and clips from Hollywood without paying for the license themselves would not be a smart career.

I'd play about 15.

That is great news. Talented individuals like you are why these tables are getting better and better. And you are right, if folks are getting into this for reasons other than the love of the pinball, then its probably the wrong reason as people will continue to do what they do. And to be clear, none of the table artists (that I know of) make money from their work as all the reputable VP sites are free. Some site donations are needed to help with site costs but the money being made is from the commercial sellers who shouldn’t be packaging all the tables IMO.

yes - your eyes can def discern more than 60hz. In the PC gaming world, it goes to 240+. No doubt for pinball, 60 is barely acceptable and for this price, this company is really gauging. My eyeballs can confirm this with VPX haha.

To power 120hz, the gpu needs to be good, not amazing. I haven't checked the PC specs but knowing what else the company is offering, I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't enough. Again - good on them for offering plug and play but for anyone to be happy with the pricing attached, is crazy. Price is insane.

The 60hz vs 120 or 144 or some other high number is a real improvement. For day to day tasks on a pc it doesn't matter. For gaming (vpin included) it is pretty awesome to see. The game gets so much smoother. The ball motion in particular is a significant improvement.

Why take it up with Roland….he is very aware he is using a sub par monitor for the playfield to maximize his profit margins. I’m letting other people know these displays are terrible for virtual pinball. No angle viewing is a complete deal breaker for a playfield display. These are monitors are used in dentists offices and airports, not a dedicated gaming machine. For that price you could have added a proper gaming monitor or at least have the option for 120hz upgrade. It is a must have for a high level spec Vpin, especially if you are paying NIB pinball prices. I don’t mind spending 8k on a pinball machine but I don’t like getting charged LE prices and getting a Pro level spec machine which is exactly what you are getting with the Ultra VP.

Very true not only do you get smoother ball movements with double the refresh rate(120hz) but you can also can do real pinball moves more reliably/repeatedly like live & drop catches, post & rolling passes etc. The smoother movements really make the virtual experience more realistic, at 60hz you tend to get a lot of ping pong action with the ball.

Thanks Briks-707 for the info. I was reading some reviews on Vpforums about 60hz vs 120hz. you definitely are right. I'll have to rethink about purchasing from Roland unless he will do an upgrade but doesn't want another $1,0000 haha

https://www.vpforums.org/index.php?showtopic=46591

I considered Plug & Play and may do it someday, but for now I just have the itch to tinker with building both VP and VR in my shop.

You say the playfield TV is garbage but, on their website, it says they are using LG monitors. Is LG not a good brand or am I misunderstanding?

LG is a good brand but the particular model they are using for the playfield is not suitable for this kind of application. It’s limited to 60hz which is not a deal breaker by itself but the fact that it doesn’t have angle viewing is. It only has a clear crisp image if you stand directly in front of the monitor, moving off center you get a nasty white haze across the screen. Meaning if your playing pinball and you have someone watching off to the left or right they are getting a ghosted out view of the playfield. It’s not something you’d want in a high spec Vpin.

You need a monitor. TVs, unless equipped with 120hz, will really cause a lot of ball stutter as many mentioned already. I'm just saying the price being charged here - you should either have a better tv or a proper monitor vs what they are giving.

Thank you for such a detailed response, which I now understand.

Apart from building a spec VP, based on your knowledge, are there any companies that you know of building a 'turnkey' VP that are using a 49" (I like this size) playfield monitor that has a higher specification, either 60hz or 120hz, that you yourself would be happy with. I bow to your knowledge.

Thanks again.

I'm considering this one: Asus ROG Strix XG438Q 43

https://www.amazon.com/XG438Q-Monitor-FreeSync-Displayhdr-Non-Glare/dp/B07WDLV344/ref=sr_1_3

EDIT: Just ordered !

RRW is the only company I know of offering an oversized 49” playfield monitor. I don’t believe there is any company making a 120hz in that size as of yet. The Asus ROG 120hz is the gold standard for gaming but the largest size I believe is 43” which is a few inches shorter than a real standard pinball playfield but very close to the correct width.

I update tables on my machine every 1-2 weeks to keep up with all the new releases or improved versions, takes all of maybe 10 minutes and I’m a complete novice when it comes to the software side. The reason to update your own tables is for personalization. Sometimes when a new modded version of a table comes out, you might prefer the older one or vice versa. By doing it yourself you can choose to keep both or delete the one you find inferior. I wouldn’t want to leave that choice in someone else’s hand, their preferences are going to be different than yours.

kinda curious why he uses 49" screen? isnt 43" the size of a playfield. I found this 48" 4k monitor 120hz wouldn't that work to replace his 49"?

https://www.lg.com/us/tvs/lg-oled48cxpub-oled-4k-tv

Can you please point us to what you consider the most valuable guides?

I have to say that I have searched and found guides but all of it seems very tedious and nebulous - also the guides seem to get out of date quickly with all the versions and revisions of various software and compatibility issues .

I must say that considering yourself a novice and having a depth of understanding you describe in this area does not compute......

I believe there would be many more VR pinball enthusiasts if they could clear the vexing software hurdles

I can give you about 700 reasons why. That 48” 4K monitor looks up to spec for a 60hz display. At least it has a gaming mode (G-SYNC) and unlimited contrast (angle viewing).

I would use the Baller Installer guide. It’s an all in one solution instead of having to download and configure multiple programs. I have a firm understanding of the hardware and cabinet construction involved but the software can be daunting depending on which front end you select. Once you have it set up correctly tho adding new tables is easy and not very time consuming at all. I have probably 1500 tables I maintain on my full sized Vpin.

I'm running at 4k 60hz with a TCL 43 inch TV in the cabinet I built and see zero ball stutter with visual pinball. Running in game mode on that TV the input lag is about as low as it can theoretically get with 60hz. If you get any stuttering at 60hz then it is probably something with your settings - vsync, exclusive fullscreen vs. windowed, and other quality settings in visual pinball that exceed the capabilities of your video card. Yes, 120hz is better and would reduce flipper lag, but when I built my cabinet a couple years ago a 43 inch gaming monitor was just a little more expensive than the TV.

Sorry but you need to see a setup with 120 and you will instantly see what I mean. 60hz vs 120hz when it comes to vpx is important. It’s just a fact.

I play at 144hz on my desktop too. Almost identical hardware to what is in my cabinet. I know exactly what I'm missing.

This is the monitor I ended up getting. My justification was that this is the most important part of the machine. My video card is a 2070super that I purchased several Black Fridays ago. It goes without saying that going from 1080p 60Hz to 4K 120Hz was night and day.

For beginners, start with the baller installer and simply get one or two tables working (.vpx file is the table, .directB2S file is the backglass, and the .zip file is the ROM). Those are the 3 core files that make up most tables. Don’t worry about all the bells and whistles just yet or be distracted by things like DOF or other funny acronyms. Once you know how one or two work and certain variations, it’s just a matter of knowing which folder to put certain files. It sounds daunting but I can say that now I know how it works, I know that I have actually saved a ton time as I’m pretty self-sufficient with troubleshooting. I would be 10x more frustrated if I was wholly dependent on others for support for everything and/or knowing I wasn’t getting the best experience or latest tables.

I would like to add to this discussion that just looking at the Hz of a TV is not enough. Even more important is the input lag. The input lag is the time it takes for an action you perform (pressing the flipper button) to be made in the game and shown on the screen. Most TV's do not have great input lag exceeding 30ms and even up to 70ms.

I had a very good Sony TV, with the lowest input lag possible on a TV but it was (for me) unplayable. Too much lag. With the mentioned Asus 43" there is absolutely no lag, in none of the tables. In my testing I found that an GTX 1660 Super was enough even for the most taxing tables. I tested with Tales of the Arabian Nights 4K, Cirques Voltaire 4K and Batman 66.

Part of why everybody is so hating against vpin's is that the so called high-end machines are really not high-end. Just the price tag is. Only way to get a really good vpin is to make it or have it made by an enthousiast, not a commercial business. They just cannot make a really good vpin for reasonable money. Way too much work. And selling it with the tables installed is just immoral. I tend to agree that the makers of the tables also infringe on the IP of the manufacturers, but they do not get paid for it. If you sell a vpin with the tables and software installed that is for many people the main reason to buy them, even if the business that sells it claims they do not charge for it.

Also, if you do not want to make the effort of maintaining the system, you will get behind in updates and so on, even taking more away from a good experience. My advise when you dop not want to invest in the knowledge needed for a vpin would be: buy a real pinball machine.

After reading my previous post I feel I need to expand a little on the testing. The GTX1660 super managed to perform almost perfectly with the 4K Asus monitor, a Full HD backglass and a Full HD DMD screen. Average FPS was 116 FPS, which was very nicely smoothed with Gsync on, so no stuttering at all.

Adding a topper screen was too much for the 1660, that needed a RTX 2070 to keep everything smooth. I myself use a 3060 TI now as I could get one near msrp and wanted the headroom. A more expensive grapics card is not needed for the current and in the foreseeable future upcoming tables.

I also tested VR (Visual Pinball) and that does need a beefy card. Only from a RTX 3080 or a RTX 2080 TI you will have good results with VR and a Quest 2 or Reverb G2. That said, playing in VR does not give me the same experience as on my vpin, as you are missing the real nudging, real tilt, real plunger, surround feedback, interaction with other players etc.

Does anyone know if there has been a 3D VP pinball game yet for non headsets? I would think someone could design a table for anyone using a 3d HD screen and you can wear the glasses. A pup pack retro creature of Black lagoon or TNA, using red/ blue anagalyptic glasses would work too. That would be so much fun and another reason VR rocks!

Yes 100%, you want the input lag to be as low as possible. It's good to hear that the Asus monitor works well for pinball. I thought I read somewhere that it was about 9-10ms, which isn't best for FPS games, but probably good enough for pinball. The TCL TV I have is somewhere between 13-15ms. I'd need to see the price drop well under $1000 to upgrade it. I'm running the playfield, DMD, backglass, and a topper off a RTX 2060 (which also mines ethereum when I'm not playing).

The prices on some of those pre-built ones are insane.

Looked into this, you can turn on 3D in Visual Pinball or Future Pinball like you mention, but a TV in portrait does not work with the 3D glasses (everything gets dark due to the polarised glasses and filters in the TV) and also tried red/blue but then the experience is just not the same. Resolution is bad and colors are all gone.

I'm still doing build research, but I believe I can create a high end machine for 4K - 4.5K. Not knocking the guys that want a turn key for 8K, I just want to create and control the end result myself.

My job is creating digital content everday for the web and have played this everyday for 6 months with no complaints. As long as the screen looks good when I'm playing thats all that matters. I'm a stickler for detail and I am happy with 60hz or whatever. I could care less what my friends and family who don't play pinball think standing to the sides. It's not that bad or worth complaining about,splitting hairs here. These are taken with a 5 year old phone and crunched for upload so it is better in real life.
Some say its overpriced equipment, especially if you have the know how and time to build one. The price of a new single pin just went up another $300 across the board. I say its a steal and worth more than what they are charging.

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You should be able to build one yourself for that amount or less easily. I started with a virtuapin widebody flat-pack for the cabinet, and ended up spending about 2.5K, but I already had a couple monitors, speakers, amps, external sub, wire, etc. The 2060 was only a little over 300 back then though, and they were in stock everywhere. The hardest part for me was figuring out the best way to mount the monitors.

Easier Said then done for building a virtual. someone like myself that isn't skilled in woodwork,wiring, mounting etc.. there are so many builds and differnt styles of Vp machines that people built. I would like something professionally done. anyone of you that say you build machines for cheaper. then how about you build me one ill pay for all the components and pay $1500 for labor. Thanks

Cool, thanks! Is it 3D enough with red/blue glasses? I can see the black and white table versions of Creature, Munsters, and Adams Family working? The old movies who used it at drive-ins were mostly black and white. Although I bet you need some color for the effect. Would love for someone to make a table with a 3d theme.

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Yep - I agree. You are definitely missing.

Yes you are exactly right. Input lag is also critical to be low. That’s why a monitor is perfect. They are typically the lowest you can find out there and pair that with 120 and it’s vpx bliss

Sorry, the easily part was referring to the cost if you have the skills to do it yourself. And if you've ever built your own PC and installed a car stereo you probably do. You don't really need woodworking experience, unless you count gluing/screwing boards together and drilling some holes for buttons. Even better if you can find an old gutted cabinet somewhere.

You said 4k60 has a lot of ball stutter. It doesn't with proper settings in vpx. It is less smooth than 120, which I'm not arguing.

I have 5 empty cabs with headboards 2 Williams Flash cabs and 2 bally Lost World and Bally Star Trek. I like more of a wide body cab like a TZ or DE Gnr . but like the newer Stern cabs more. my vp cab I have now was custom built on TZ dimensions. my machine is 6 years old . ready for new Vp. I'll sell mine cheap make an offer..

All this talk about lag... haha, if I wasn't older and twitchy, I might care about it.

Best Choice out there. I wouldn't even consider anything less!

I also use the asus xg438q. I started with with a Samsung 1080p before the fast flips code was a thing. There was too much lag at that point to make 4k worthwhile. I swear I had that machine set up like a month and had to upgrade everything to 4k. So I got a 43" Samsung that did 4k at 60hz. It was night and day difference and well worth the effort but that viewing angle thing always bothered me. Then they teased the asus xg438q and I waited months and months for the US release. I got it the first day it was available and I haven't looked back.

Trust those who say if you cheap out on your monitors you will be paying again when you realize how much nicer your machine can be. For the record it runs off an Asus rog strix 1080 card beautifully. Anything more than 43" is too big! Not scaled properly at all.

I've gone to some extremes to build mine as I see fit, but if your goal is a nice vp setup SPEND THE MONEY!

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