People just don't give a shit about intellectual property do they... I'm not talking about the table creators in the VP scene, the righteousness they feel towards their own abuse of IP is one thing, I'm talking about ripping off Stern and AC/DC! At least the VP creators aren't profiting from their work. It is one fine looking VP though, no half way about it... but man... the blatant disregard for other people's IP never ceases to amaze me.

I can't speak for AC/DC, but I had heard Stern supports virtual pinball and actually supplies them files? I thought I heard Lymon was involved. They are more than happy to having there games digitized. I am not going to be surprised if this is the way they may be going. Gurantee Gomez has looked into it in order to stay ahead in the industry.

They licensed with FarSight Studios. Even that software is older now. These machines though, they are most certainly not at all approved by or associated with Stern in any way.

I would not be surprised to see another set of console/pc/mobile versions of some Stern games though.

This is the licensed version of stern pinball games on steam.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/564010/Stern_Pinball_Arcade/

I met Gary Stern at PHOF about 7 years ago and asked him what he thought about virtual pinball. He said he though it sold more "real" pinball. No problem... but maybe things have changed.

playing pinball on my ipad was step 1 for me. Step 2 was buying real pinball machines so in my case, yes, there was a connection. And now, full circle, I have built a virtual cabinet, thus prooving the inverse is also true.

I like Virtual pinball for learning the table rules. But it's a video game and still fun. I own real pinball for pinball. There is no substitute.

you could probably argue, though, that with increasing resources put into video graphics and complex rules that pinball is trying to be more and more like video gaming. Rather than a joystick, you have flipper fingers and a playfield.

You have real physics and the random shit that goes with it. This will always make it different from video gaming.

Totally agree. I have my virtual pin for learning rules and such, plus it's great to have these unobtainable games to look at. But for learning pinball, nudging, ball control, flipper skills etc, you need a real pin. Virtual is a video game.

I like Virtual Pinball due to the fact that it's less maintenance being in the hobby of pinball. I have 15 machines which can be quite expensive for parts and upkeep. and no fun lifting and moving them around. and like you said Teahaus with Virtual you can play alot of pinball tables that you wouldn't be able to obtain. iam Hoping that Stern would get into the Virtual market and put out their own machine with all the classic titles. there was rumor of it but that's probally about it. iam in the market for a new Virtual . this is the style of machine I want. anyone out there building something like this . let me know.

Not sure how old yours is but I have nudging? Now how accurate it is and flipper control to real life is up to debate. Maybe not exact but close enough.
Virtual can now do everything real pinball does plus many more things. It just doesn't convey depth as good,which they will figure out eventually. Its just like electric cars right now on the road. Just need to get people to test drive one thats come out recently to see the benifits. Like any technology the older versions are becoming dated and tired.

Is VP Cabs the top dog in the US market? Looking for a quality built cabinet with all the features that emulate the real feel and sounds of a pin.

Apples to oranges!

I love how versatile these virtual pins can be. I had this mini 1/4 scale Black Knight 2K themed machine built by Facebook builder Scott Sloan, the craftsmanship is amazing! It has a coin door that opens and working virtual plunger, runs off a NUC 8i5. For those times when you need to take your pinball with you!

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For those that are utilizing the pinball download site, how are you actually downloading the tables? It seems like you're forced to use 'mega', which has been a pain in the ass for me to try and work around without signing up and paying a subscription, etc.

what pinball site? I never use mega for vpin downloads (well maybe there was one giant pup table addon but thats rare).
these are the main sites with the visual pinball tables.
vpforums.com
vpuniverse.com

correction vpforums.org

But yeah there are a few other sites to trust (I can't remember the names) however none of them have mega downloads. There are a few scammer sites out there flogging these downloads

I was looking at www.virtualpinballdownload.com. I was under the impression vpforums had been taken down, and I always had issues finding roms there anyway.

Same here as I'm looking to jump into a Virtual Pin and would love some suggestions on what others recommend. Though guess I could read the first 53 pages of this thread.

This is the best site IMO >>>>>>>> https://vpuniverse.com/forums/files/

Deaconblooze Vpinball.com is the site that closed up. The owner was upset that some people were downloading and selling the pinball tables . i respect all the authors that donate their time and energy building these tables and not profiting of it. then when some asswipe comes along and sells their work. they ruin it for the community. I notice since vpinball shut down. there has been alot of authors that don't share out any tables to the community.Vpinball was also really good site to get alot of the Stern tables that were forbidden on Vpforums. VPUniverse is another good site as well. I dont like the Mega download site either. only time I had to use that if a Author posts a PupPack to download. I don't care for Puppacks and don't bother with them. software is too complicated for me. I missed out playing some really good tables that require puppacks . Beatles and Munsters to name a few

Thanks, I'll check that out.

I've been a little fatigued in keeping up with my real machines lately. I started messing with the FX3 app on android a bit. I was pretty annoyed that there isn't a straightforward way to buy the williams tables. I like the fx3 physics overall, at least for a mobile experience. I decided to give the 'free' sessions a play to mess around. It's actually pretty fun, it feels like pingolf, and allows you to earn 'parts' toward the offline versions of the tables. I have basically everything I want now to the level2 (where you can play full games in offline mode) and bought points to purchase the pro physics (cost me about $5, which I would have happily paid for access to these tables in the first place). Overall it gives me a pretty casual experience while the wife and I are hanging out on a weeknight, etc.

Otherwise I'm trying to get a controller built to take advantage of VR. In some cases I think I'd rather just play on a monitor, but don't really want to dedicate the time/space to a dedicated cabinet. For now swiveling my monitor and playing at my desk seems like it will meet my needs. I just need to work on getting everything configured again..

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One other important note is that this is site is highly frowned upon by almost every original table author. Whether folks agree with that or not, their time and efforts should be more respected. Without them this hobby ceases to exist. The main site I use is vpuniverse as almost every top author (i.e. tables worth downloading IMO) posts there.

There have also been some incredible original tables that are super fun. The new Cheech & Chong table, Cuphead Pro, and any table by ScottyWic (Oribital Pinball) come to mind. For the recreations, check out any table by the VPW group and daphishbowl. Daphishbowl and that team essentially coded Batman 66 from scratch (since there is no emulation of the Spike) and it is incredible.

I have learned that too many tables is a bad thing as I was spending more time configuring than playing. Pick and choose some great authors, thank them, donate and follow them. There are still more than enough tables to enjoy IMO. I am no longer a digital hoarder lol.

Edit: I’m ashamed that I did not mention the grandmaster himself JPSalas (https://sofie40.no/jpsalas/) and the amazing SLAMT1LT (https://speak1970.wixsite.com/slamspinballemporium) who uses Future Pinball to make original tables but also takes real tables and updates their rules and even creates new modes. These guys are incredible.

I've done some searching but I'm not quite clear on a few things (at least not in 2021)...

- What front-end should I use?
---- I'm mostly interested in functionality and ease of use than anything else. I'll be playing in VR (any such front-end that supports that?) and a rotated desktop monitor.
---- I'd like to be able to click a desktop shortcut, rotate my monitor, and getting into a machine with as little hassle as possible. I'm fine with work up front to achieve that.

- What should I look for to get the most out of a single monitor setup?
---- I want to run in 'cabinet mode' but with just the playfield monitor. I would prefer to have a smaller version of the dmd/score display visible on that same monitor (ideally with the ability to move as needed between different tables)

If playing in VR then all the stuff about "regular" VP is not quite the same. The bulk of the info for VPX VR seems to be in the facebook groups dedicated to it.

He's right. I built my first virtual pin because it was a cheaper option. Just bought my first real Stern earlier this year!

Real pinball + vr pinball for all the old games= perfection.

With the exception of nudging these new version of tables in vr are unbelievable. If someone denies it they just haven’t tried it properly configured on a pc running 3090 in vr. Simple as that. No it won’t replace but def supplements

I figured I'd probably need to run through 2 different setups, but didn't want to figure out later that it wasn't necessary. Thanks, I'll check into it.

So what are my options for 1 portrait screen and a frontend?

Yeah, I think claiming that virtual pinball will never place real pinball is maybe a little short-sighted. Things have advanced really quickly. I feel like the physics are pretty good even in the mainstream releases at this point. I know everyone likes to blame something when they drain, "bad physics" seems like it will be the cry about virtual pinball for quite a while.

Also if anyone can recall some helpful posts in the last 7(!) years (especially if they're relevant today), it would be pretty cool if you could just give me the post numbers or general page ranges and I'll link them as key posts.

this is, of course, good advice, but not possible until one has hoarded games himself/herself and come to that conclusion !

Ha! This is so true. For reference for those just starting out, I’m at around 300 and slowed waaaay down as they were coming too fast to keep up. I’m working on getting these setup to perfection and are planning to add only key tables from my favorite authors for a while. I have seen some YouTube videos that show over 1000 tables…that is another level of hoarding that my OCD mind sees no enjoyment in. Plus, odds are high that many of those setups came from bulk table downloads which (a) do not actually have the latest and greatest versions of the tables and (b) will have significant more config/setup issues.

I started in virtual pinball years ago since I couldn’t really afford any of the real machine(s) I wanted. And with all the bells and whistles to aid in the illusion, it has evolved into an amazing supplement to the few real machines I can now fit. The virtual machine will never replace the real thing but it lets me experience tables I know I will never get to play in real life, not to mention the amazing original tables. And as others have said, it is a great way to learn rules and strategies if you like digging in.

I love virtual pinball, play the latest with the best tools to do so.

It will NEVER replace real pinball.

I vastly prefer VPUniverse over VPForums, but I use both.

To add:

virtualpinballdownloads is a site that A) scraped a lot of content and posted it without permission, while trying to claim it's for preservation and B) has puppet accounts claiming to be the likes of people like Terry Red and others to try to add a veneer of legitimacy.

Like most, I'm still stinging a bit from vpinball closing down - yeah, I get the reasoning, but it did little but add a claim of legitimacy to the folks that caused the problem in the first place. There are some authors that refused to upload (for legitimate reasons) to vpforums, and vpuniverse was going through some pains, so vpinball was the place to be at the time, and some of them haven't migrated to vpuniverse, or worse, have just moved to Facebook, where I gather that they're at least in the position where they can yank files at any time if they feel the need, or can control the access a lot more. Most of the preferred Facebook groups will ban people if they're even giving even a hint they may be a Lazy Commercial Pincab Seller (my term of people selling virtual pinball machines commercially without dealing with the licensing correctly - which means no Visual Pinball because too many have gone through with just selling without asking and ruined that for everyone) or Scummy Scraper Reposter.

If you arent building one this is the best. Having no flipper lag is the key. They are located in the USA also. I've owned mine for 8 months and play it everyday. Incredible.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ultra-vp-club-virtualist-welcome

Totally agree!

JPSalas FTW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use Pinball Y. And for VR, you need to use VP launcher. No single front end supports both flat and VR.
Single display in portrait with DMD on same screen is totally doable. It will require a Rez file and another registry configuration file and also editing some tables in the table editor (simple to learn, but you will need some help getting started) See VPForums. Ask questions there to get started. I've done it but can't remember the process. Been out of it for a while.

It won't, simply because VR pinball is a single user experience! Swapping headsets is a PITA and not what I'd want to be doing with mine. How would leagues use VR? Also digital pinball is not real pinball! Apples to oranges comparison.

Virtual (Digital) Pinball will never = physical pinball, but it is damn fun, less expensive, gives people the opportunity to play tables that they would never be able to otherwise, takes up less space, etc. People say things like "the game is the same because the digital physics" but there is so much randomness in the physics engines that it isn't like playing Pac-Man back in the 80's where the ghosts were programmed to take the same paths and if you learned a pattern you could clear all of the levels. That said, programmed physics still is not real physical gravity and inertia physics either.

We all need to agree that they will never be the same, but at the same time, that should be OK too. The idea is to have fun, and with new machines with multiple variations costing around $10k a pop, that is just too much for most people.

VR pinball is supposed to be pretty cool, but again, I see it as a 3rd way to enjoy it, not as THE way or a way that is better than others.

Pros and cons to everything for sure.

I sure hope that nobody seriously thinks that virtual (digital) pinball is the exact same as "real" pinball, but that is expected and a single computer based machine to play on is still fun and still increases interest in the hobby.

I have been a pinball fan since I was a kid in the early 80's. I bought my first pinball machine, a 1975 Gottlieb Atlantis pinball, around the same time when I was maybe 11 years old. I always wanted a room full of (real) pinball machines. I bought a Theatre of Magic back in 1998 that, due to space limitations, replaced the Gottlieb Atlantis. I still wanted more (real) pinball machines. I love going to barcades like 1-Up in Denver where there are a lot of (real) pinball machines to play. I just don't live there and options are super limited where I do live. I still seek out (real) pinball machines when traveling or if I see something by chance and have the time, I will stop and play it. That said, I only have room for 2 pinball machines due to other hobbies of mine, don't have the space, even in our 3800sqft house, for more. As such, I built a virtual (digital) pinball a couple of years ago and went all out on bells and whistles, processing power, and screens. It is a 1:1ish (3/8" wider) scale of a 90's era William's cabinet and sits right next to my Theatre of Magic that I still have and love. When I have both machines on and running and people come over to visit, there is always one person that gravitates towards the Theatre of Magic, but everyone else plays the virtual (digital) pinball machine significantly more. They like the choices in games, and the effects (lights, physical feedback, sound, etc) all are really good.

I do spend a good amount of time maintaining the virtual (digital) pinball machine though. People claim that it is less time than maintaining a physical machine, but I think it is different. A physical machine needing some repairs or restoration can be quite the undertaking, but once running, things should rarely break. With the virtual (digital) one, I find that I am regularly updating tables and software, tinkering with my POV, etc. It is just that I can also stop doing that and know that it will still run 100% perfect just like the last time it was touched without a soldering connection coming loose on a solenoid, or a 26+ year old circuit board is failing, etc.

So I think that both are great and both have merit. We just need to all agree that they are different and wonderful at the same time for different reasons. I will never sell my Theatre of Magic, but I also don't see me ever not having my virtual pinball machine right next to it either.

Yes, digital pinball is fun too. But it's a whole new thing really! Who could have imagined it back in the 80's! It would have been beyond my wildest dreams like the internet and all the new tech that exists today! May as well enjoy it! Real pinball is not only getting too expensive, but the build quality is going down. Even the old ones are stupid expensive now.

I have a maxed out VP Cab. They charge a premium price for sure. But the components they use and build quality are very good. And what you get is Plug in and play as long as you have no intentions of adding tables or updating it.

I got a custom Back to the Future Themed Wizard Model (not sold any more):
https://virtualpinball.com/products/wizard?variant=18403920327

I went for midnight blue powder coated trim, legs, and coin box (it's just a metal facade. no real coin mechs)
4k screen (But they had all the software and tables configured for 1080p!)
Laser Cut LED lit topper
RGB Undercab lighting
Strobe lighting in back
i7 cpu instead of an i5
Backup copy of the harddrive

The launcher software and OS is pretty out of date. Which can make adding tables tricky. They actually ask you not to update anything including the OS.

Building and setting up your own virtual cabinet is a ton of work. Great if it's something you want to do. But I bought the VP Cab as a shortcut to buying and piecing together all the hardware. I have no regrets. It's a solid base to expand upon. The sound system (speakers and sub) in this thing are ridiculous (good).

I have owned my VP Cab for just shy of 2 years and spent a considerable amount of time (many man-weeks) reverse engineering, reading, and experimenting.

If you plan to add tables or switch the launcher over to pinup popper, you will be all set hardware wise. But you will need to learn a ton about all the software and configuration. (Look for "Baller Installer" to get a head start.)

Since I have a backup of how they originally had everything, I have taken many liberties and been quite successful at getting mine exactly where I want it:
* Upgraded to Windows 10
* Swapped out the GTX 1060 for an RTX Titan
* Replaced Pinball X launcher with Pinup Popper/Player

I also put the following on it:
* latest Visual Pinball with a handful of tables (Guardians, Ghostbusters, Batman 66, Cuphead, Shovel Knight, Stranger Things Stranger Edition)
* Arcooda and Xbox One Kinect for 3d head tracking support (gives me all the Pinball Arcade tables they made for Arcooda)
* Demons Tilt in cabinet mode
* Zaccaria and all tables
* I add new Zen tables as they release
* Timeshock - cabinet mode
* Pinball Wicked - cabinet mode

Know that if you go crazy making software changes like I did they will not support the stuff you changed from their out of box configuration. They will still honor their hardware warranty though.

Also. I recommend making a full drive backup every time you are successful with a particular change. I cannot exaggerate just how much time a "simple thing" can take. Like enabling 4k took me a week and I had to reconfigure every single app. Setting up all the apps in Popper took about a month of tweaking and tuning. Some things were a matter of reading the docs. Other things are a combination of googling and pure trial and error as the software itself (zen, arcooda, the launcher) is all still works in progress by the developers. So you are like to encounter bugs as well as your own user error.

Still, it can be a fun and rewarding experience.

Thanks Viggin900 for telling me about the Ultra Vp. from rec room.. I plan on getting a machine from them. exactly what iam looking for . i like the 15.6 dmd display and 4k playfield. and it's loaded with tables . no hassle with setting up the software for computer dummies like myself.

Sounds like this would be my best bet as well. I’ll check this site out closer along with the VP Cab mentioned. Thanks for everyone’s suggestions.

I checked both of those sites out and probably a bit too much out of my price range. Question can you add newer tables on the VP Vertigo cabinet pin? There’s a guy locally selling one at a decent price so I might look into that if you can add stuff to it.

Your welcome, I hear the wait list is getting long. Funny thing they are located not that far from VP cab in central OH. I saved some money by picking it up and knowing it will travel safely. It weighs a ton, great quality.

Viggin900 I forgot to ask you about your machine. Are you able to add more pinball tables to it? does it have PupPack software and tables installed that require the pupacks? there's some cool tables out. isnt there a shortage on Video Cards? wonder how long the wait will be? I agree it is a spendy machine would be cheaper to build your own. but when you consider the time and labor into the build and profit for the business. the cost will be up there. take this in consideration wouldn't you rather spend the 8 or 9 grand on a virtual that you can play hundreds of pinball games compared to spending the money on 1 real machine that you play awhile and get bored with it. some of the machines in my collection I don't even play very often I wanna keep them in nice collector condition. I have a DE Guns N Roses and Bally Kiss and T2 that I would rather play on Virtual and not wear out the real ones

They are just running Windows. You can plug in a mouse and keyboard and add tables. But it’s not a 5 minute thing.

I’m not entirely sure the vpin has/will save me money in the long run. I keep discovering tables I want to buy.

All the games come from a 3rd party developer and are preloaded. There 1186 tables. Trust me you will never need to add any tables that arent on there. They have gone through and have chosen the best quality ones so you arent waisting time sifting through crap. Updates to these games and software will be done remotely in the future but probably wont need to be for awhile. The only game I have come across thats not on there I wanted is Motordome. Just the top 50 games are worth the price even if it just came with those.

You can add tables to the vertigo. I highly recommend playing it for an hour or so to be sure it is what you want. It is nice the space it takes up and entertains guests when they are over. If it is for you who takes pinball seriously its like standing in front of a screen and you end up looking down most of the time at the flippers. I dont believe they have nudge or solenoids but depends what you are after. More of an arcade feel.

Who ever owns a visual pinball machine needs to learn how to add new tables and update these. If not, you will get left behind.

can't wait to oder a Ultra Vp machine . talked to the one of the workers . and he sent me a spreadsheet of all the tables installed. theres currently 1,260 tables installed. along with all the puppack tables . and 10.7 versions too. plus they offer support too with software if any failures they will get you back up and running