(Topic ID: 107028)

Viper Night Drivin: now it is a club!

By Whysnow

7 years ago


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  • 258 posts
  • 40 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 hours ago by V8haha
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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There are 258 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 6.
#1 7 years ago

Just picked up a HUO Viper Night Drivin.
It is dirty (pf likely never been cleaned) but should clean up well.

I had a few questions and am hoping others may have some info.

1. Game currnetly has ROM v 1.0. I see that John Wart offers the 2.01 version but I can't find out what the updates are. Does anyone have a list of changes? Is it worth updating the ROM?

2. Cabinet is near perfect and NO flipper button cabinet wear currently. I would like to keep it that way. What is the best way to do this? Are there some sort of flipper button mylar teardrops? is my only option to switch out the side rails? Answered my own question >>> Pinball life sells clear mylar cab protectors. I assume these will work well.

3. It has the original globalls but they are pretty dingy. What is the best way to clean them up? I also have a set of the modmypin globalls and was wondering if they play different than the originals?

4. Any tips for a first time VND owner or tweaks I should make? I know tamoore mentioned that he made a ball trough UV light mod to help keep the balls glowing >> can anyone share the best way to do this?

Really fun game and should be cool to have next to my Predator when it arrives!

#2 7 years ago

I also have just purchased a VND and had similar questions. A pinside member named Viper is really into the game and answered mine. Hopefully he will see this thread or you can PM him. Look at the threads about the new glow balls as he has posts in there.

#3 7 years ago

I tried to search posts by all the pisiders named Viper and did nto see anything?
Can you link me his previous answers?

#4 7 years ago

Try viperrwk . That is his user name. He PM ed me and I don't know how to send that to you. Sorry.

#5 7 years ago

Viperrwk told me Treasure cove sells some decals for cab flipper area. I do not know the answers to your other questions but he should. Congrats and good luck.

#6 7 years ago

thanks, I sent him a message

#7 7 years ago

here is a thread that has some good info

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/thoughts-on-viper-night-rider

Quoted from viperrwk:

The v1 ROM for the game seemed to do some mode stacking. I didn't play it enough to see how well or how much you can do. They seemed to take this out in v2.

#8 7 years ago

thanks for the thread link. Good read!

Hope to get more details about all that changed form older code to newer. Sounds like older code may actually be better if you can stack?

#9 7 years ago

Mancoooooowwww!!!

#10 7 years ago

Congrats on the pickup and welcome to the club - that makes about 5 of us now...

Let me try and answer your questions.

Re ROMs: I have not looked at v 1.0 only 1.02 and even then did not try too much with it. The latter has bugs so I assume the former does as well. For example, you can start modes without the notepad being lit, so you don't know what mode is up next. Modes in 2.01 are changed with the ball hitting the pops. In v 1.02 you can stack modes so for example you can have Lights Out and Raccoons going and start multiball and those modes keep running. But given the speed and flow of the game and the value of the jackpots compared to the other shots in those modes, the running modes become more of a distraction. In version 2 when you get multiball, any running modes get suspended (save for double and triple scoring) and then are resumed when you get back down to 1 ball.

V2 is much more polished and doesn't have the bugs that V1 has. it's definitely worth the upgrade.

Display-wise, there's little difference, I think the match animation is the big thing but otherwise not much to worry about IIRC.

The TC decals are best for covering up existing cabinet wear. Since you don't have any I'd get the PBL protectors:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1870

I have a set from Mark Clayton that I put on years ago as his are removable but sadly not available anymore.

The original glos do get dirty. A good soaking in 409 and a polish in Novus 2 can get them clean but not do anything about the dings. I have not noticed a play difference between the Mod My Pin and regular glos except for the fact that on occasion the Mod My Pin balls when kicked into the shooter lane bounce back into the trough. This indicates to me that the covering is not quite the same hardness as the original glos. BUT in defense of the new balls, they glow really well in multiball. They almost seem like they are floating in multiball they are lit up so well. Unfortunately, as a result, they also show up dirt better. The downside to VND is that you really should clean the balls every 100 games or so (plus your rubbers and anything else the balls come in contact with...) to maintain the glow effect.

As for settings, these adapted from Goatdan (another one in the club):

Default game difficulty is "Moderate" (Adjustment 6.) Then change the
following:

05 - Extra ball limit - off
44 - Multiball restart - hard
46 - Multiball criterion - hard
50 - Mode start criterion - hard
52 - Steel balls installed - yes (even with the glo-balls)

This does three things - takes away Raccoons as something to shoot for (there are little points, dangerous shots that lead to draining and completing the mode only gets you an extra ball), makes multiball not so much of a gimme - you have to work for it. And increases the coil power so the game plays fast.

Personally, I don't get why you would want to charge the balls in the trough when the idea is that in certain modes the lights go out and the tubes come on to light up the glo balls. If you want the balls to glow all the time set the UV lights on the playfield to be on all the time (Adj 48). To each their own of course.

Once again congrats and enjoy! (And PM sent.)

VND.JPG

viperrwk

#11 7 years ago

Other than viperrwk, I'm the other guy that likes VND a TON. It's more or less tied as my second favorite game ever, with only Iron Man above it. Perhaps I can answer some questions:

1. Game currnetly has ROM v 1.0. I see that John Wart offers the 2.01 version but I can't find out what the updates are. Does anyone have a list of changes? Is it worth updating the ROM?

I haven't run ROM 1.0 personally, however the lack of mode stacking I actually *like* in Viper. It makes it quite strategic - for instance, you don't want to start a mode until you've lit the center post so you can pop it up during the mode if you need it. The modes are lucrative enough to usually be worth playing, and if you instead want to catch and cradle (which strategically is the right move in some cases), it's a very difficult thing to actually do, making timing out modes actually somewhat difficult. A lot of this stuff works together to make a good playing VND into a surprisingly awesome game once you know what's up with it, in my opinion...

2. Cabinet is near perfect and NO flipper button cabinet wear currently. I would like to keep it that way. What is the best way to do this? Are there some sort of flipper button mylar teardrops? is my only option to switch out the side rails? Answered my own question >>> Pinball life sells clear mylar cab protectors. I assume these will work well.

I personally hate those - with mine, I got one with no wear and have since put two nice, big ol' handprints on the side of mine, but that is what people use to protect them, yes.

3. It has the original globalls but they are pretty dingy. What is the best way to clean them up? I also have a set of the modmypin globalls and was wondering if they play different than the originals?

The modmypin GloBalls *are* definitely different than the originals, but you should be using them. They use a different covering, but are functionally identical all the way down to weight, and unlike the original GloBalls which actually do not glow in any way, the modmypin ones do. The weight to this game is key - the balls actually weigh the same as PowerBalls (which I would sometimes use in mine), but their size is ever so slightly smaller.

A lot of people complained about those balls not holding up as perfectly as their steel balls, but what they don't understand is that they are actually considerably better than the original GloBalls in VND. By the nature of having the outside of the ball a slightly softer material, they get dinged up. Once they do, the balls pick up bits of rubber from the slings and whatnot, and they start getting bouncy, and then the game sucks. Bad.

I believe that I use Formula 409 or something like that to clean my GloBalls. This is a key - if you are using the originals, you need to clean them probably once ever 25 games or so, or the gameplay will degrade quickly.

4. Any tips for a first time VND owner or tweaks I should make? I know tamoore mentioned that he made a ball trough UV light mod to help keep the balls glowing >> can anyone share the best way to do this?

The balls don't hold their glow for long, so I've never bothered. I put UV lights in my inlane guides years ago, and that works a little to give them light. Otherwise, unless you put your blacklights on all the time, the balls just simply won't glow for long, and I find that totally okay.

As for other tips...

DO NOT use anything but Glo Balls. Preferably as mentioned the modmypin ones.

DO change your game settings to STEEL BALLS. Sega made the game slightly weaker with everything if it is set to Glo Balls in an effort to make it play like it has regular balls in it. All they accomplished is making the game play like garbage. Set it to steel balls with Glo Balls in it, and you'll find guests drain after hitting a ramp that feeds the flipper because the ball returns so fast to the flipper that they can't believe they need to react already.

DO clean your balls often. Huh huh huh... But seriously, getting little pockmarks in the balls is common and unavoidable, but as soon as the balls pick up enough rubber to stop rolling and start bouncing, the game blows. Most people have played route examples with dirty balls, and the game is a complete dog then. It is a game that ONLY works in a home environment because of this.

DO change the adult mode to OFF. It is embarrassing. The only things that it changes are that when you score a multiball jackpot, the "girl narrator" doesn't have a fake orgasm which is just straight uncomfortable, and Mancow doesn't make some comment about running over a Raccoon and wishing it was Stern. Perhaps ironic considering that Sega was about to become Stern, but he's referring to the shock jock, not Gary.

DO set it up ultra steep, and open up the outlanes all the way. If the game is easy to control in *any* way, it makes the whole thing not work. If it is nasty as it can be, you end up with it having so much strategy it's ridiculous.

I've owned mine now for years, and I only own one of the high scores on the machine, and I've used it in the Midwest Gaming Classic tournament once. That's the way to do it

Oh, and it looks great with LEDs, I would suggest cool white for GI. It looks so good in fact, I paid nearly $3 / bulb when they first came out to do it.

Hope that helps somewhat. I could literally discuss VND strategy for an hour with people because it is so surprisingly complex because of how it goes.

The final thing I'll tell you is this - there is an insert on the playfield called Alien Abduction. There is almost no documentation of what it does. I think I have documented how to start it in other threads. In the about 6 years of ownership for me, with it being one of the most played machines I own and with me knowing how to start it, I have started it about three times and completed it once. It's not mind blowing amazing, but it's really neat that it's hidden in there.

#12 7 years ago

Haha! Damn, 1 minute 26 seconds apart with our posts...

Quoted from viperrwk:

As for settings, these adapted from Goatdan (another one in the club):
Default game difficulty is "Moderate" (Adjustment 6.) Then change the
following:
05 - Extra ball limit - off
44 - Multiball restart - hard
46 - Multiball criterion - hard
50 - Mode start criterion - hard
52 - Steel balls installed - yes (even with the glo-balls)
This does three things - takes away Raccoons as something to shoot for (there are little points, dangerous shots that lead to draining and completing the mode only gets you an extra ball), makes multiball not so much of a gimme - you have to work for it. And increases the coil power so the game plays fast.

Aha! You found that! Was trying to dig it up myself... The one thing that I would argue is leave the 'coons as something to shoot for. They are STUPID dangerous to shoot for, but the game does raise the center post for a second when you hit one, but if you start the Raccoons mode, you have the opportunity to hit both three times to light extra ball. Potentially worth the risk, and a strategic thing for sure too.

Also, Raccoons keeps running during multiball, although other than sound the game doesn't tell you this. The correct strategy is to essentially 'accidentally' start the mode and then purposely quickly start a multi so you can smack them each (remembering how many times you did) as the balls are being kicked in and the ball saver is on, lighting Extra Ball. I'm a supporter of them

I don't remember if I've actually changed the mode start criterion on mine, but the two multiball ones are important. The game is sort of known for having an easy-to-start multiball, and changing those two things makes it harder. As I recall, the 'hard' criterion makes the first one that you need to light and then lock the balls, and then the second one you need three saucer shots to light them. Also, you don't just want the restart to be easy because the game almost forces you to get a small jackpot (seriously, the ball save is like 30 seconds long, and unadjustable), so if you drain out, you don't want the game to basically immediately restart your multiball.

Otherwise... yeah

#13 7 years ago

Oh yeah, and final thing - seems most people don't know this - if you hit one of the side targets, you will light the center post. You can push the ball launch button when it is lit to raise the center post. This is huge for if you rattle a center shot and it is going SDTM, but you have to time it right - not just are you taking your hands off the flippers, you also need to raise it right before it hits because you only have about a second to put it up.

It's an amazing piece of strategy in the game once you know it's there.

#14 7 years ago

I liked the game, just not enough to put it amongst my keepers. Everything Goatdan said is truth. I hope MJW enjoys his new VND!!!

#15 7 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

the lack of mode stacking I actually *like* in Viper

I completely agree with this but for a different reason. Even if you make every shot in a mode or complete Raccoons, the points you get are nothing compared to running the jackpots. Completing any one mode is worth at most 10m points. If you run the jackpot, double jackpot and both supers that's 35m plus you can start banging on the center ramp after that for 5m each as long as you keep the multiball going. The modes and Raccoons start to pale in comparison.

And yes, Raccoons keeps running in multiball. I forgot because I don't care anymore...

Other than that, and turning off extra balls, I'm pretty much in agreement with Dan.

Enjoy the music.

viperrwk

#16 7 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

I completely agree with this but for a different reason. Even if you make every shot in a mode or complete Raccoons, the points you get are nothing compared to running the jackpots. Completing any one mode is worth at most 10m points. If you run the jackpot, double jackpot and both supers that's 35m plus you can start banging on the center ramp after that for 5m each as long as you keep the multiball going. The modes and Raccoons start to pale in comparison.
And yes, Raccoons keeps running in multiball. I forgot because I don't care anymore...
Other than that, and turning off extra balls, I'm pretty much in agreement with Dan.

I'm usually all about turning off extra balls, I just realized that it is sort of funny I don't on VND. I think I only have gotten it like five times though, so there is that...

And modes are worth closer to 20M I think - if you do the race video mode one, does it give you 10M for getting to the end and 10M for completing it? Loops in Invitational are worth 5M apiece I thought? Regardless, it's less than multiball, but you don't want to do multiball 100% of the time.

Finally, the center ramp is only worth 5M for I believe four shots or a certain amount of time, or something. It will eventually stop, and then you have to do both side locks again. Which, by the way, is genius and dangerous. While multiball is the most lucrative thing in the game, a decent multiball will get you 30M perhaps, and then it is dangerous to restart (hitting a locked ball sends the ball SDTM).

Hell Viper, me and you should spend an hour talking strategy. Looks like you play yours slightly different than mine - I play certain modes, but need certain things to be set right before I do... like having the center post enabled.

#17 7 years ago

Modes are only worth a total of 10m each. For example in drag race, you get a max of 5m + another 5m for winning. Here's a YT of someone who just won the race (@ 1:22):

I just played mine and completed Lights Out mode - "Awesome man!" - again 10m total. And also did Drag Race for another 10m. Was going mainly for modes also got Hitchhikers (did not complete) and two multiball jackpots (wasn't really trying for multiball, wanted modes) - got 50m.

Of course your high score is higher than mine which is 184m (though that's with no extra balls) so perhaps there is something to your strategy...

viperrwk

#18 7 years ago

I just got one of these a few weeks ago as well. It actually was the last of the Sega Showcase cab for me, I now have all six!

They look pretty cool all in a row.

I really like the game..so glad i found a good deal on one.

And, it was already LED'd too! I got some of the modmypin glo balls and it plays awesome. Needs a cleaning, but I will get to that

#19 7 years ago

296628.jpg
#20 7 years ago

Impressive! Nice row!

#21 7 years ago

WOW, thanks for all the great info and responses!!!!

I have an original set of modmypin globalls and will put those in after I do a full tear down and shop job on this.

looking forward to really digging into this!

I was going to buy tamoore's VND but then there was no way to get it to expo for me to pick up last friday. Low and behold Saturday morning I got a call back on this local HUO. I may have paid a bit too much but it sure is nice and only my second HUO game.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from twitami:

296628.jpg 202 KB

I <3 Sega

#23 7 years ago

Hey Todd,

Can you explain how you wired in the added UV lighting? Is there a way to hook it up so it only comes on during the black light modes?

#24 7 years ago

also, what lighting did you use?
I was thinking Comet may have something good but have not looked yet

#25 7 years ago

There is a setting for when the blacklights come on in feature settings....
It comes all pre-wired, and ready to rock.

I used the stock cointaker GI kit, and I liked it OK. It puts red LED's under the ramps, and a couple of purples here and there under plastics that make sense for them.

#26 7 years ago

I thought you wired some sort of ball trough UV light that comes on at the same time as the blacklights?

Can you tie in directly to the blacklights for this sort of add -on?

#27 7 years ago

Oh...
Sorry. I did wire one of them in. It's not a UV lamp. It's a regular super bright LED that is wired to the GI. You can't see it, as it's under the apron. You want it on all the time, as you want the balls to be getting charged while they're sitting in there.

You should be using the GID bulbs, not the regular UV reactive ones. They just kick ass once charged, and under the blacklights.

#28 7 years ago

If you look for the Glo-Ball release announcement thread, I put pictures in there. Maybe I'll look for it later on if you can't find it.

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

I thought you wired some sort of ball trough UV light that comes on at the same time as the blacklights?
Can you tie in directly to the blacklights for this sort of add -on?

If you do that, you want it on all the time. If it's only during the time the Blacklights are on, they will mostly turn on right before firing the balls into play for multiball, which won't charge them much.

#30 7 years ago

cool.

If I come up with something I will be sure to post it up.

#32 7 years ago

awesome! thanks!

#33 7 years ago

There should be a Viper Night Drivin Club, as I just picked one up as well. Awesome info here for sure.

#34 7 years ago

Most of the people who care and have the game are in here already. Here's one for the club:

ebay.com link: Viper Night Drivin Pinball Alternate Translite

Not sure these are much better than the stock translite which was ruined with the late addition of Mancow...

viperrwk

#35 7 years ago

My guess it that many of the more rare games (1100 made? and half that stayed stateside?) were not really played much so mnay people have no idea how they really play.

As Dan has said, they suffered more on route since late 90s pinball was basically dead and then you toss in some new balls to mess with a fickle customer base.

I played for 4 hours last night with a buddy and we had a blast. We are currently on v1.01 and am looking forward to upgrading to the newest code to see what is new. I was reading the manual and really cool that there is a "wizard" play by holding right flipper before starting a game. Gonna have to try that also.

I plan to tear mine down and do a full cleaning starting this weekend. Really looking forward to how it plays once super clean!

#36 7 years ago

Can't be a club unless this thread is moved to the club subforum...

viperrwk

#37 7 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

My guess it that many of the more rare games (1100 made? and half that stayed stateside?) were not really played much so mnay people have no idea how they really play.
As Dan has said, they suffered more on route since late 90s pinball was basically dead and then you toss in some new balls to mess with a fickle customer base.

Like I said, it wasn't JUST tossing in some new balls - the ball coating collects the rubber from the playfield, and you quickly have a bunch of balls that move around the machine like superballs. And that SUCKS.

I don't think I said it in this thread, but if you find my review on it on IPDB, I used to work at an arcade where we had one and it was the only decently working pin, and I would close up and head to other locations to play for pay instead of playing for free because I hated the thing so badly. It wasn't until I half-jokingly apologized to a friend who was dragging one into the 2006 MGC to sell that it was the worst game ever. He said then you haven't played one working the way it should, because when it is working, it's amazing. He told me I had to try it, and that he was putting a high price on it at the show to hopefully not sell it.

I didn't get a chance to there, but it left me intrigued. Saw him at an auction a couple months later and he told me to definitely play the VND there as it was set up right. ONE play on a nicely working game made me realize that he was right. I bought my machine a few months later.

If the game had PowerBalls in it stock, I think it would have a totally different reception.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I played for 4 hours last night with a buddy and we had a blast. We are currently on v1.01 and am looking forward to upgrading to the newest code to see what is new. I was reading the manual and really cool that there is a "wizard" play by holding right flipper before starting a game. Gonna have to try that also.

Whaaaaaaa???!!! How have I not heard of this?!

Quoted from viperrwk:

Not sure these are much better than the stock translite which was ruined with the late addition of Mancow...

Nothing personal to whomever made that, but no, it's not. Mancow doesn't bother me - I mean, I don't love him and I never really listened to his show, and I get why people think he's an idiot, but he only really serves as a narrator on the machine. If anything, it gives the game a little more personality.

Since this is a club, I'll also just toss this out there...

Viper as a theme went a lot of places before VND was made. The first try was a mini-machine, which is in my opinion the best mini-machine that has ever been made. Of course, there is only one and I have no idea who owns it now, but it was fun to play the one chance I got.

There was then a second version of the game that I would still love to get pictures of - you can find the playfields for this version - I heard they ran about 100 samples before redoing it. The ramps are identical, but the rest of the game is FAAAAAR different and honestly looks like it would play like complete garbage. I would love to find and play one of these some day to see what it is like. Anyone know where that game is? Heck, I'd be happy with just a bunch of pictures of it. Rumor was they had 4 or 5 at Expo in 1997, I believe it was.

#38 7 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

Whaaaaaaa???!!! How have I not heard of this?!

Page 3 of the manual - hold right flipper button when hitting the start button.

I believe this is akin to instantly putting the game into "Extra Hard" mode (Adj 6 - Game Difficulty) along with disabling auto-percentaging and putting mystery features in a set order. This is a little harder than the settings referenced above which is harder than the default. Since I also run IFPA settings at home in addition to the settings above, I don't use Wizard Mode. Making the "Miles" criteria even harder is NOT necessary!

Edit:

As for the Mancow addition - the problem I have with his addition was the billboard that was put on the translite which required *squishing* the Viper word art making it look stupid and out of proportion. I have no issues with his callouts and cackles on the game. It just would have been nice if it didn't screw up the art.

viperrwk

#39 7 years ago

Ha! Yeah, I use the IFPA settings too, and that mileage thing is a beast. I'll sometimes play games of VND just trying to drive more than 80 miles, and I've been close, but never made it.

I'll try it tonight hopefully

#40 7 years ago

I've never played this game as I don't think I've ever seen one face 2 face on location.

#41 7 years ago
Quoted from viperrwk:

As for the Mancow addition - the problem I have with his addition was the billboard that was put on the translite which required *squishing* the Viper word art making it look stupid and out of proportion. I have no issues with his callouts and cackles on the game. It just would have been nice if it didn't screw up the art.
viperrwk

Just looked at it, I don't know much of the logo, so it doesn't bother me I guess. Honestly I think the translate has a bunch of other stupid crap on it before that - like the raccoon that is bigger than the yellow Viper it's next too.

The cabinet art is great, the translite... ugh. Oh, and the playfield... ugh.

Also, last random fact for a while, I would LOVE someone to repro the mylar covering on the game. When the blacklights turned on, before the paint faded away to nothing, the "headlights" to the cars would turn on and you would have these little awesome looking beams of light shining forward. I can still sort of see it on my mylar, but it has long since faded to nothing

#42 7 years ago

my mylar still has that

#43 7 years ago

Does it actually glow? If so, PLEASE light it up and take some pics. I've been trying to figure out how to get something that works, and I'd love to see a still functional mylar in pictures for if that ever happens.

So, you know, the three of us in the club can get a replacement.

#44 7 years ago
Quoted from goatdan:

The first try was a mini-machine, which is in my opinion the best mini-machine that has ever been made. Of course, there is only one and I have no idea who owns it now, but it was fun to play the one chance I got.

https://pinside.com/pinball/community/pinsiders/sebastian

Quoted from goatdan:

Heck, I'd be happy with just a bunch of pictures of it. Rumor was they had 4 or 5 at Expo in 1997, I believe it was.

Lloyd is selling the proto version of the playfield for $900:

http://www.ssbilliards.com/forsale/images/playfields/depsegastern/pf-nos-vipernd-proto-front.jpg

Pinball News story about it:

http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/expo2001/index3.html

I'd love to see and play the proto as well but I imagine they were all probably destroyed.

viperrwk

#45 7 years ago

LOL.

I will take pics of it. Top cars and bottom cars (which are further from lights) all glow with headlights very nice!

#46 7 years ago

totally different proto pf. Would love to see/hear what it looked like when all together

#47 7 years ago

Check IPDB, they have a pic of one together. Same ramps, but looks like an amazingly crappy layout.

#48 7 years ago

Oh, and sweet! That Pinball News article has the full playfield! It's all crappy in image, but...

I played Mini-Viper when Bakula had it. I should ask him about full sized Viper. I heard through the grapevine that there are two people with them still, but I've never confirmed it. It would definitely be a cool thing to see, but honestly it's one of those things that I bet that like 10 people would really want to try, and honestly I can't imagine playing the proto more than three times and wanting to play again. The layout looks absolutely miserable.

#49 7 years ago

Wonder where Trudeau got the idea for the Mustang turntable from?

viperrwk

#50 7 years ago

So what are the rules of this table? I was intrigued by this thread and the table looks awesome with the Glo-Balls and black lights. Depending on whether I can find one at Pintastic this might as well be my next machine.

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