(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

By vid1900

10 years ago

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Topic index (key posts)

15 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #6 Get the right EOS switch Posted by vid1900 (10 years ago)

Post #8 Make System 11 Flippers Feel Tight Like Fliptronic Posted by vid1900 (10 years ago)

Post #88 Replace Old Series Coils With New Parallel Coils Posted by vid1900 (10 years ago)

Post #140 Udate Old Solid State Flippers Into Fliptronic Style Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #292 List of games with longer/shorter flipper travel Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #294 Rebuilding 1967-1979 Flippers Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #390 Coil stop differences between system 11 and Fliptronic Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #520 Rebuilding Bally Linear Flippers Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

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#2238 4 years ago

pasted_image (resized).png

Vid, is your picture flipped or rotated?

Reason I ask is that I am having a heating issue with an upper flipper coil on my D&D machine. The coils on all three of my flippers are A-24-570/34-3600's. Not the PinCoil brand. I have never had to deal with the lower flippers. The upper flipper coil is new, installed a couple of months ago due to a similar over-heat issue, which at that time actually did blow the fuse (more on that a bit further down in this post). I suspect wiring, but as I look at it, oriented in the same manner as your picture shows, the bands are reversed on the diodes relative to your picture, as you can see here

208_0808 (resized).JPG

I'm trying not to overthink this, and I hope I am being somewhat clearer than mud but it is perplexing. And I am beginning to wonder whether it is wired properly, although color wise, the other two flippers and the respective wires are soldered to the coils in the same orientation as the upper flipper.

But only that upper flipper is getting hot. No other coil on the game, not one, even gets warm under extended play. Or if they do, by the time I lift the playfield to check them they have cooled off. The upper coil does not cool off quickly. It's almost as though there is a continuous current feed.

It got so hot last night that the game threw a fuse message on the display and stopped. After checking all of the fuses visually and with a DMM, not one fuse in the backbox or under the playfield was bad. Power off brought the game back up in a ready to play status.

Anyway, the thick/thin 43 volt tab looks like it's in the middle, the thin is definitely as your picture displays, and the thick wire is on the left. Does that sound right? I have looked and looked and looked, and I can not see any indication that the thick/thin wires on these coils are oriented as your picture shows.

Oh btw, disregard that chewed up wire, I did that last night (slipped with the iron in my hand) when I put a new switch in. It was getting late and I called it for the night. That wire is going to be replaced today.

#2241 4 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Is the eos switch supposed to be normally open? Looks like it’s not making contact in that pic.

It won't fire if it's closed. I thought the same thing. When I put that switch in last night, it was closed, it's a brand new switch. So I spaced it a bit, the old one was really spaced, and didn't even make contact when it fired :O

Anyway, here is a picture of the new wiring just completed. As I stated, all three flippers are wired the same way color-wise, save the replacement red wire I just put on.

208_0809 (resized).JPG

Here is a picture of another flipper coil I have. As you can see, it's the same configuration as the flippers in D&D
208_0810 (resized).JPG

#2242 4 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Looks like your diodes are reversed from the picture, and notice that your thin, thick, and dual wire terminals are not in the same location.

Indeed. And based on the configuration being the same as that spare pincoil picture I posted, the +43 terminal is at the thin wire on the right. And the thick and thin wire is on the middle lug :O

eta for Chuckwurt

As I understand upper flipper configurations, the EOS is normally closed, but my upper flipper will not fire if the switch is closed. So I'm really beginning to think: Houston, I have a situation

#2243 4 years ago

Just as an FYI, and with no intent to clog this thread with off-topic stuff, I am not ruling out an issue with my 6803 MPU board. I have another issue with XPIN's not displaying on this machine, except in test mode, while the original displays are working fine. I have not tracked down that problem, but maybe both issues originate somewhere from the backbox and not under the playfield. Or maybe not. I just don't know atm.

#2245 4 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

The EOS needs to be closed when the flipper is at rest. You must have something wired wrong. CPU can't effect the flippers.

I should have worded that last sentence a bit better than I did. Sorry about that. Anyway, after lifting the playfield and examining the lower flipper wiring, the upper flipper, as you stated, was wired incorrectly.

It's a double leaf setup on the lower flipper and I had the upper switch wired emulating the wrong leaf in the lower switch configuration. That's where I made my mistake.

It now works properly, that being the coil fires when it's in resting position, which is closed.

It still heated up though, but maybe that's normal. I'm just not sure why it would heat up as much as it did last night, and get a blown fuse warning, but not actually blow any fuse. As I said, when this same issue occurred last summer, I got that same message and it did blow the fuse. First thing I did then was to turn it off and then turn it back on. However, unlike last night, the fuse warning message did not go away nor would the game play.

That incident last summer also left a quite obvious electrical burning smell, which ended up being the old coil that this one replaced.

So, I am still not sure that I have resolved that particular issue, but at least the wiring is corrected.

#2247 4 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Can you post a picture of your new wiring?

I've got it locked down and closed now, sitting in attract mode. It makes a nice night light when not being played, in that room. I had planned to take shots of all three flipper setups tomorrow, so look for them then.


if you go back up a couple of posts, you'll see what the wiring looked like prior to the change I just made. That red wire runs to the middle leaf on the switch, and the orange wire in the background now runs to the 43 volt lug with the brown wire. Prior to that it was on the low/ground lug, on the left. It's not the best picture, but it will give you an idea of what I was talking about.

I'll post better pics tomorrow.

#2248 4 years ago

right flipper
208_0812 (resized).JPG

upper right flipper
208_0814 (resized).JPG

left flipper
208_0813 (resized).JPG

1 month later
#2262 4 years ago

So, in reference to posts I made earlier vis-a-vis the upper flipper coil heating up, my wife played an extended session a couple of days ago and the game played fine, but that coil was hot.

I'm wondering why that coil gets so hot, but no other coil on the game does so. While I need to verify this, I am almost certain that my upper flipper on Fireball II does not get hot like that.

Maybe I should re-work the wiring. Any thoughts?

I am in the process of finishing a brush-on clear of my Fireball II machine, and also trying to get a monitor issue with my Donkey Kong game resolved, so D&D is somewhat on the back-burner at the moment, but I am curious as to why that upper flipper coil gets so hot.

#2264 4 years ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

I would make 100% sure the EOS it opening. Lift the playfield and energize the flipper with the flipper button (don't just push the pawl with your finger) and watch the EOS open. Make sure you can visibly see a gap in the EOS when held.
If it is opening, I would turn my focus to the coil. Make sure you have the power coil and hold coil measure a correct resistance and are wired up properly with the EOS.

Thanks, and it is opening. I put a new coil and a new switch in, about the time I made my first post on this issue in this thread. In fact, it was another user who noted from my pictures that that switch should be closed. Imagine my shame LOL.

Prior to that, the old EOS was gapped ridiculously open all of the time.

I didn't set it that way, but I copied it with the new switch. Then I corrected that issue, setting it to normal which is closed when idle. Like I said, imagine my shame and I did it publicly LOLOL

Chasing "ghosts" I am learning, is half the fun with these things

#2266 4 years ago

I'm confused. Seriously, I am really confused. Something is not correct, but I'm not seeing it, even if it is staring right at me plain as day to others.

I modeled the wiring for the upper flipper off of the lower flipper NC switch, not the NO side of the switch. I can get that upper flipper to fire, with only the 43v and ground hooked up to the proper lugs. With no other wires connected to the middle/EOS lug or the switch leafs, that flipper will fire.

The only time I can not get the flipper to fire is if I model the upper flipper wiring to match the lower NO switch, which makes sense because it is, in effect, "shorting to ground", correct?

The picture enclosed, is not how the wiring is configured now. I tried this configuration, flipper will fire but the coil still gets hot.

Maybe it's normal, but it's awfully damn hot and I don't know how that is going to ensure a long coil life.

208_0854 (resized).JPG
#2268 4 years ago

Did that, the flipper won't fire unless I disconnect the wire from the middle-lug or open up the contacts on the switch.


thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. More than I can express.

for the time being I de-soldered the wire from the middle lug and the inner switch leaf, and will monitor it.

#2277 4 years ago
Quoted from PBaller22:

Junk Yard Flipper Question:
I encountered a problem where every time I hit the flipper button, the flipper would stop in a different position. It would go up slightly with each hit and stay there until it eventually it was stuck all the way up. So, I tried my first flipper rebuild today...bought a kit and swapped out the stuff in there (crank assembly, coil sleeve, EOS switch, spring) and it's doing the same thing. It does the same "stop in a different position," but now it even moves backwards (towards the player) and stops. Anyone ever encountered this?
I've tightened the bolt on the crank shaft to the point where I don't think the problem is that the flipper bat shaft is turning. There is some play for the flipper to move up and down. (Though I ballparked that based on the other flipper because I don't have a gauge.) How are flipper bats supposed to be attached to the shaft? I did have to push the bat back onto the shaft after I removed the flipper. Could the flipper itself be spinning while the shaft is not? Again, this is my first flipper rebuild, so I'm not super familiar with everything just yet.

I have had that happen, the way I fixed it was to just keep adjusting on the set screws until it stopped doing it. Sometimes I had to tighten one down, and back off the other. This is with brand new flipper rebuilds and older flippers. What I did - apologies if you have already tried this - is loosen both set screws until the flipper would easily move by rotating it with your hand. Then adjust down from there, til the flipper stayed in it's idle position after activation.

Hope that makes sense

#2282 4 years ago

My overheating coil problem is resolved. It ended up being one or both of the diodes on the coil. That was a new coil, too.

There were two 4004's on the coil, I replaced them with 4007's. Additionally, I had to rewire that coil, moving the outer leaf wire to the power lug. The ground is now soldered to the same lug by itself, with the middle lug connected to the inner leaf.

Also, something I did not mention before, was that upon activation with the original diodes, no matter how I had it wired, when the flipper fired it did not give what I like to term as the lightning blast seen with flipper activation. It now does that.

Once again, thanks to all who tried to help me resolve this issue.

eta as an fyi

before I replaced the diodes on that coil, I moved that coil to the bottom flipper and it overheated there as well

#2285 4 years ago

ok, thanks Chuckwurt, I didn't know that, but yes Pballer22 those are the screws I'm talking about

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