(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

By vid1900

9 years ago


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Revised flipper wiring.pdf (PDF preview)

Topic index (key posts)

15 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #6 Get the right EOS switch Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #8 Make System 11 Flippers Feel Tight Like Fliptronic Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #88 Replace Old Series Coils With New Parallel Coils Posted by vid1900 (9 years ago)

Post #140 Udate Old Solid State Flippers Into Fliptronic Style Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

Post #292 List of games with longer/shorter flipper travel Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

Post #294 Rebuilding 1967-1979 Flippers Posted by vid1900 (8 years ago)

Post #390 Coil stop differences between system 11 and Fliptronic Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)

Post #520 Rebuilding Bally Linear Flippers Posted by vid1900 (7 years ago)


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#530 7 years ago

Post #6 has the links to one supplier. You can try putting those part numbers in the search engines of other suppliers if you want to shop around a bit. Good luck!

5 months later
#690 6 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Newer rebuild kits from Marco include zipties and new capacitors, as well as both types of return spring, interestingly enough.

That is interesting. Do they include the spring mounting tab too?

#739 6 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I can't figure out what in the world could be making that difference. The correct coils are in the game. I've tightened the flipper bats in the prescribed manner, using a cut out credit card as a spacer. What gives?

Could the flipper cabinet switches be burned and crusted a bit causing some resistance resulting in the loss of power?

1 week later
#757 6 years ago
Quoted from chrisram22:

Does anyone know what the correct size screws that should be used to mount the bushings to the plate?

They are 6-32 and the threaded part of the screw appears to be 3/8"

1 month later
#813 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yes, it was an easy way to make the games earn more money.

That's interesting, and it also sucks if the vendors are using those coil stops in the kits made for system 11's. I too like the farther flipper travel of the shorter stops.

1 week later
#820 6 years ago

Recently I had shopped out my Mousin' Around. I went whole hog on the flipper rebuild on this one. It seemed a little under powered especially when you "head for the hole". I have been dying to try some 15411 coils, so this was my candidate. I custom order my kits specced out for system 11's, without "comical" springs from Pinball Life. I keep plenty of "vid springs" as I call them and spring brackets on hand. This gets me a new capacitor and the proper coil stops for system 11's. Of course there are new bats and bushings as well, and what flipper rebuild is complete without new cabinet switches.

Now for the result. Initially I had finished off this rebuild with a pair of superbands on the bats. I felt the power was to a point where damage could possibly occur to plastics. I didn't want to blow the boxes off my cheese traps, so I pulled the superbands and went with the red rubber that came with the rubber kit. That de-tuned them to what I feel is the perfect level. Now they are nice and hot, but I do not think dangerous anymore. I would stick with the stock coils on most of my games, but in my opinion, orange coils were a great upgrade for my Mousin.

DSCF4779.JPG DSCF4782.JPG
#824 6 years ago

Thanks! I think it was a post that mof did, where I got that idea from though. It really made sense to me to molex the wires, then rebuild the flipper mech at the bench.

I would recommend using a very good quality crimping tool to anyone who wanted to do this. You don't want to create a failure prone connection because of a cheap crimping tool that does a lousy job. This is the one I got from GPE. Part Number: 3132-CT. It's not cheap, but it does a very good crimp. There are other good ones too I imagine.

6 months later
#1092 6 years ago

It's hard to tell from a pic, but that 1 coil wire going to the EOS switch has a sharp kink in it. Could it be open there by chance?

1 month later
#1175 5 years ago

Vid,
I have 2 questions in regards to converting Bally linear flippers to the previous design. (post #520) First off, this is for a Vector and all 4 flippers. All of the part numbers used will be Pinball Resource numbers.
You recommend Williams #03-7811 EOS switches, but I am concerned that they may not actuate the EOS "form a switch" BLY-ASWA1045+ properly because you have to bend then so much at the end to get 1/8" gap. Would the Bally EOS switch BLY-ASWA2034+ be a better choice in this case, as it appears to have the tentioning leaf and says it is "high current"
Secondly, could you help me out with a few dimensions on the "L" bracket you use for the extension spring. Length of both sides of the L and metal thickness, as well as width would be very helpful. The bend of the bottom of the L should be easy enough for me to figure out. Thanks Vid!

#1177 5 years ago

Thanks a bunch Vid, order placed today. If that gentleman chimes in on the L bracket that would be great. Otherwise I should be able to do fine off the pic.

1 week later
#1188 5 years ago

Steve1515, I have bought a brand new flipper rebuild kit before where the bushing was not installed in that pivot point. You may want to make sure it is in there. You should be able to snug up that nut and still pivot it freely because that is the bushings job.

#1190 5 years ago

If you still have your old pawl and link, take out that bolt and pull it apart. You will find the bushing in the plastic.

1 month later
#1234 5 years ago

OK, To get anyone that is interested up to speed, I had PM'ed this to Vid--

After may successful williams flipper rebuilds, these old bally flippers aren't cooperating with me. I had converted them from linears to the previous generation flipper. I confess that I got lazy and didn't go to an extension spring at first. Just used the compression spring on the plunger that came with the kit.
Well I have softer , spungy flippers that even when the ball comes down a little hard, it will break their hold and then they snap back up. Something is not right as my friend has an Electra with fresh linears and they are much more snappy and strong. I took the right hand bottom one off today and put a new coil on it, as well as an extension spring and fabbed up a bracket. If anything I lost a little more ground on that side. My vector scan # is now around 670 and it used to be about 730 with the old coil and compression spring. Could be because the extension spring is putting up more resistance?
I don't think it has anything to do with the springs, but I am at a loss. Could my voltage be too low at the coils or something? I am somewhat stumped. FYI all 4 flippers are molex plug equipped which makes it easier to pull one out and work on it. I have done this a bunch of times with no ill effects.

Vid responded with this--

Post some good pics on the flipper thread.

Most likely your EOS is maladjusted or the wavy washer is on the coil stop end of the coil.

I can easily take more pics if needed Vid. Just ask what area you need. Thanks!

DSCF5409_(resized).JPG

#1235 5 years ago

Right away I will add that the wavy washer is on the coil bracket side , not the coil stop side..Now when I put the new coil on the one flipper, there was no room for a wavy washer, therefore there is no wavy washer on that one. The coil fits snug in there, but you can still twist it a little with some resistance.

#1237 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Like always with an "underpowered flipper", start by jumpering the EOS switch closed with alligator clips and now test for power.
Don't hold the flipper button, just tap it.
Flipper should kick like a mule.

Indeed it is much better. I did know that this was Vid rule #1 and tried this awhile back too. Something very noteworthy is that without the jumpers, you can push on the bat with your hand and move the bat, as it hums away trying to fight you. With the jumpers on, you cannot move the bat. (I do this for the shortest amount of time possible)

Soooooooooo these are new EOS switches and they have the tensioning leaf, I understand the concept of tension being on the contact point after adjusting and it has some. What am I overlooking here.

Is it the white coil that does not look square Vid? There is no moving the coil stop or bracket with this coil. It is sandwiched in there with no adjustment left to either. To me it appears square when looking directly at it. Maybe the pic angle makes it look off a little?

1 week later
#1245 5 years ago

Thanks for posting neurokinetik. Since the pic was posted, I have converted the left flipper to the extension spring too. While out on the bench, These 2 mechs got a EOS fine tuning and cleaning. I use a dummy flipper with a ground down bat for bench setting my mechs. I have not resistance tested the switches and that sounds like a good thing to do in this case.

For the moment I have been accepting how these flippers work now, as they are plenty good for the demands of Vector. I do not believe they are performing perfectly though. They seem to weaken some after they warm up, and it doesn't take too long.

4 weeks later
#1294 5 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

What are the black "bent" washers in this pic?

They are spring washers that are used on the plunger side of the coil (not the coil stop side) in some apps. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but they are not ever used on any system 11 flippers that I know of.

2 months later
#1423 5 years ago

Coils should be flipped around ideally. Stack switch looks upside down on first? Stack switch on the 2nd one may be set closed, when it should be normally open? Hard to tell for sure.
It would be best if they both had extension springs instead of conical. Also best if first one had tensioning leaf on EOS. They both just need a good Vid approved rebuild!

2 months later
#1503 5 years ago
Quoted from TheRingMaster:is it a bad idea to add locktite

Well, I like it on the flipper bushing screws and the nuts on the back of the plate as well. That seems to be the way the factory done it, and they usually are still in place and holding well. Easily defeated with a hot soldering iron.

4 months later
#1626 4 years ago

Can someone tell me the proper ceramic disk capacitor that goes across the lugs on the flipper button switches on system 11 games? I am shopping out my Dr. Dude after putting it off for over a year. Someone put the big yellow caps down there instead of on the flipper mechs where they belong. Then they had no caps on the mechs.

3 weeks later
#1651 4 years ago

The switch closest to the coil is the End of Stroke (EOS) switch. This one opens up when the flipper is hit and cuts the power to the coils high power winding. The low power winding is what hold the flipper up at the end of the stroke. The other switch is the lane changing switch . That closes at the end of stroke and does your lane changing on the top of the playfield. I usually just clean that up a little and not replace it, but that depends on condition. As far as adjusting the switches, Vid does a great job of explaining how pretty early in this thread.
It's best to order and replace the flipper bushings when doing a rebuild. They usually don't come with the kit.

3 weeks later
#1678 4 years ago

Could the EOS be breaking the low power windings instead of the high power windings? To me, it sounds like the games worked like they had no functioning EOS switch at all.

1 week later
#1701 4 years ago
Quoted from johnjones:

Is there any trick for getting the flippers lined up correctly when tightening the allen screws on the flipper clamps under the playfield?

If you are talking about the kind of mech where the allen screw pushes directly on the flipper bat shaft, you might want to consider starting with a fresh bat. They get an imprint in the shaft and the allen screw will find that spot again when tightened. If that spot isn't exactly right, it can be frustrating. If you have a new bat with no "memory" mark on the shaft, I just tighten a little, then check, tighten a little more, check. Make the memory spot in the right spot that way.

1 month later
#1743 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Also added a cap as i had it. Just soldered it to either side of the eos switch. No polarity correct ?

Correct,
One thing I would like to see on your setup there SUPERBEE is insulation on those cap legs like the factory did it. I use some small heat shrink if the factory red insulation is missing or no good.

4 weeks later
#1773 4 years ago

Vids extension spring upgrade applied to my storm door handle. It is in fact a small compression spring inside that had broke and failed. For the time being I did this and it works better then it ever did. I think it's cool looking too. Another temporary fix gone permanent.

DSCF6135 (resized).JPG

9 months later
#1984 3 years ago

This has been discussed before, but I have no idea where in the thread. Here is my question.

Is there any benefit to using the 2.2 uf caps on the series coils? is it safe to do? My High Speed has FL23/600-30 coils that seem to be healthy yet. I did rebuild the upper flipper with a 11630 coil. I know the caps are used with parallel coils. Series too?

#1985 3 years ago

So I started reading the thread from the beginning and only had to go to post #60 to answer my question. The caps will NOT be used with my 2 remaining series coils.

Quoted from vid1900:The games that use series wound coils did not have the caps. I think the first game that used caps and parallel coils was F-14 Tomcat (1987), but don't quote me on that.

So, no need for caps on your game. If you ever burn up a coil (or it overheated and you can't remove the Coil Sleeve), you can flip the wiring and use a Parallel coil. This will make your EOS Switch last longer, and you will then add the cap.

#1987 3 years ago

Posting just because I thought this was a cool flipper rebuild. It's my High Speed, which comes with series coils and conical springs. In order to use an extension spring and have a place to mount the big yellow cap associated with parallel coils, I had to ditch the original bases and go with these. They were from my parts Transporter PF. It got a little busy in there with the large switch stack, big cap, extention spring, but just taking my time it came out good. Looking forward to trying this out soon.

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1 year later
#2361 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

It won't really be a locking nut then though?

Use some medium strength loctite, like the factory did. Won't matter if you have a starwasher nut or not.

#2362 2 years ago

^^guess that was already covered.

2 weeks later
#2366 2 years ago

I remember asking vid1900 this very question a few years ago. He said to go with what the manual says to do. My question was about a later system 11, I forget which one. Probably the same flipper mech as Funhouse has.
What I have adopted to use is nice, cleaned 1/8" and a 1/16" drill bits for feeler gauges. the 1/16" slides through the gap unrestricted, while the 1/8" does not fit through the gap.

#2367 2 years ago

This was Vid's and my PM exchange on this question.

Dozer1 ---- Vid, you always say that an EOS switch needs to be set to have 1/8" gap. That is .125". My system 11 manuals say to shoot for .062 which would be right at 1/`16". I know you have tons of experience with this stuff, so did you find it works better at 1/8" then the recommended 1/16"?

Vid1900 --- The 1/8 works good for most games, the sys11 you can indeed go 1/16.

5 months later
#2404 1 year ago

Is there a compression style spring on the plunger? I suspect it is fully compressing it and bottoming out on it. If that is happening, the plunger doesn't hit the coil stop. That would make it act like you described. If that's it, I would try to rig up extension springs.

#2418 1 year ago
Quoted from trk12fire:

If you adjust your flippers parallel with the out lanes without your grommet, it'll give you higher flipper travel on the swing.

I can see this, but wouldn't do it. just would have the rubber bumper in there where it belongs.

PIC REQUEST
Just like your pic on post #2401 except lower so I can see the spring in the compressed position. Thx

#2425 1 year ago

That is spring in uncompressed position. Please, a pic in the compressed position.

#2429 1 year ago

So there you go. It bottoms out on the spring, your not hitting the coil stop.

#2432 1 year ago

What I would do is this.. Remove the compression spring and re assemble. If you can then feel it smacking the coil stop nicely when you push it up like that, proceed to install extension springs somehow.

#2433 1 year ago

I could take a pic of a game that I have, where I installed extension springs with that type of base. (which doesn't have a place on it to drill a hole for the extension springs)

#2435 1 year ago

Cool, basically do what you gotta do to not be bottoming out on the spring. Good luck.

#2441 1 year ago

This is what the tapered link looks like that KenLayton is referring to. Anytime compression springs are used, make sure you have this link. Also Ken mentioned it should be a conical spring instead of a pop bumper spring. Absolutely. (If you must defy Vid and use compression springs .lol)
detail (resized).jpg

I should clarify. I am talking only about Williams applications where conical springs are used.

9 months later
#2547 10 months ago
Quoted from JRC6000:

It just won't fire when I push the button (just make a weak noise)

Did you change the EOS switches too? If so, double check the gap, soldering, and also new ones like to be cleaned before installing because they may have some protective film (oil)on the contacts.

1 week later
#2557 10 months ago
Quoted from JRC6000:

I'm thinking using a cutting wheel on a Dremel and trying to cut the pawl

I think you are on the right track there. I might try Dremel cutting a flat head slot in the broken off screw and removing with a flat head screwdriver. Try and wet a small rag or something to catch the grindings.

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