Black Knight
Williams, 1980
Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure
Williams, 1993You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider coyote.
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Quoted from n0s4atu:Aw crap... am I going to have to join the "hacks" thread? Is this an easy fix if it's not supposed to be this way? And by easy I mean, can the parts be purchased and soldered in? And is there a thread to show me what wires to attach where? I hate to clog up this thread with this.
rightswitch.jpg 266 KB
leftswitch.jpg 299 KB
Yeah, that's been hacked. You can even see the original opto board screw mounts. 
Quoted from n0s4atu:Yeah, that seems about right on this machine. lol
I'm guessing the connector seen in the shot of the right flipper plugged into something related to the real flipper button?
Well, if parts are available, I might as well try to make it right. Got the flipper rebuild kit, didn't know I'd have to rebuild the buttons too. lol
Uh.. actually, no. I have no clue what that connector is. It *should* be a .. 6-pin (maybe 7 with key? Going off of memory here..) IDC .100" connector. For both sides.
Keep in mind that (normally), signals to the other flipper board (the right one) run THROUGH the left one. Hence why there's two grounds, and two 12vdcs.
Quoted from RampShot11:Hey Vid, could you step me how to test the voltage at the flipper coils? I tried with my multi meter but I am getting wierd readings and am not sure if I have it set right. Should I be pressing the flipper button once the meter is clipped onto the lugs? Thanks in advance. Here's a pic of my meter and the test clips I rigged up for it.
image.jpg
If you look at the scematics, the Red wires (Red-Blu and Red-Gry) carry voltage. Test between those wires and ground.
Okay, question -
Why would anyone use the newer coil stops (A-12390) instead of the older A-12111?
As a sample game, my TZ was originally built with the A-12111 pieces. During the recently rebuild, I decided to go ahead and put in the A-12390's.
The travel in the flipper bat is SO limited, I couldn't stand it. Impossible to even catch a ball. I put in new A-12111's, I couldn't stand it. Why go for these 12390 pieces?
Okay, styoopid question..
What's the difference between these two:
Quoted from vid1900:UDATE OLD SOLID STATE FLIPPERS INTO FLIPTRONIC STYLE (p3)
INSTALLING WILLIAMS WPC FLIPPERS IN A CLASSIC BALLY or CLASSIC STERN (p27)
The first says to use new flipper bats, using the pre-made kit from PL (though asking Terry to swap out high-voltage EOS switch and using a SFL 19/400 - 30/750 coil. The second says to use F-11630 coils.
Which years should each coil be used for?
Okay, one last followup that I didn't see mentioned anywhere (nor talked about).. the double-flipper.
Example - on Meteor, there's two right flippers. The upper one is wired through a secondary switch on the EOS switch. With the new coils, is it safe to power both at the same time, removing the second-stacked switch?
Quoted from Lysurgeon:Can the meteor flippers be upgraded to the new Williams style flip also?
Look in the Meteor owner's thread. I just did this to my game. Needed some easy small modifications.
Quoted from vid1900:Or maybe you blew the driver transistor?
Old Sterns didn't have driver transistors.
Quoted from Lysurgeon:Ok, so I've followed this guide trying the left flipper first and must have connected the wires wrong, because when I tried to flip, the solenoid fuse blew. I put in a breaker fuse to troubleshoot. I changed up the wires and am pretty sure it is wired correctly now, but nothing happens when I press the flipper button. Could I have blown a coil diode? That is what I will be checking next. I also need to replace the flipper shafts for longer ones because the old sterns don't reach the Williams flipper pawls. Can anyone provide a link to purchase the longer shafts for part number A-193?
Order the old classic Bally flippers from Marco, that's what I had to do. I may, however, jump up to newer WPC flipper bats, as the old Bally bats were thicker than the old Sterns.
Quoted from vid1900:Doesn't Q15 drive the flipper relay? (I'm on my phone, I can't look it up).
Yeah, but hell... that would have been one hell of a relay miswiring. Or even one messed up relay.
A bad diode won't cause the flipper to *stop* activating at all. The flippers are wired before the fuse on the flayfield, so by 'blew the fuse', I'm assuming you mean the one on the rectifier board. Likely the high current fried/melted/burnt the cabinet switch. Check voltage at the flipper coil against a good working ground, and the ground against a good working voltage. Check the fuse on the playfield as well. (I mean, the voltage from the pre-terminal on the fuse, see if the fuse is even getting power.)
Quoted from vid1900:I was not thinking that the relay necessarily blew up anything, just that when people are messing around, they tend to "somehow" kill the driver transistors.
I assumed that both flippers were dead.....
Oh, no sweat! I just got a chuckle out of how hacked up the wiring would have to be to have a relay blow a transistor. 
(I know, crazier things have happened.. especially with operators hacking games just to keep them in-service..!)
Quoted from Lysurgeon:The coil seems fine and appears to be getting power. The underplayfield fuae is working. What should I check next?
Cabinet switch.
Quoted from Lysurgeon:How would I go about this?
Same way you check every other switch. Check continuity between the two leafs, and then check that IT'S getting voltage (or ground; I can't recall at the moment and I don't have manual in front of me).
Quoted from chuckwurt:Also, if I press the button and manually hold the flipper up, then slowly let go, the flipper falls until the EOS make contact again then it fires right back up. Is there an issue with the coil in the part that is supposed to hold the flipper up?
Yes - this means that the HOLD coil is dead, or a wire from the coil wire is broken. A new coil would fix the problem, or check the small red wires to the terminals and see if one is broken.
Quoted from TheRingMaster:Hm.. guess its my call on the loctite then. I think, if the screws don't come off it will do without it. I'd rather be able to replace parts easily.
Anyone knows about the coil stop? If A-12111 is generally a good choice for system 11s? As I understand it it's the shorter of the two main ones.
IMHO, use 12111's in ALL your games.
Quoted from ForceFlow:From what I understood, 12111 was .370" (longer stop, shorter flipper travel) and 12390 was .330" (shorter stop, longer flipper travel). 12390 appears to have been used used starting in 1993.
However--the non-fliptronic rebuild kits seem to include 12390 instead of 12111.
[edit]: scratch that, I misread the part numbers.
Ah - that's good to know, actually. I wasn't aware the 10821 ones would fit on WPC flippers. May have to try those, for kicks. My TZ was shipped with 12111's, but there was an addendum in my manual saying 'they were changed to 12390s'.
No, use the "92/93" (the years, I assume that is? As opposed to 1993-1998?) If I'm right, use the older one. Shorter coil stops, give you greater flipper travel.
Those look like high-current switches, which - if they are - could give bad connectivity with lower current digital signals, IMHO..
Quoted from chuckwurt:Well that could've very well been my issue. These work fine on every one of my games except GOT. I guess the same current is not running through the new EOS switches.
Also, don't take my word for it - let someone else chime in. I'm just going by memory from a long, long time ago.
Don't believe those are the right coils there. WPC coils should have two diodes, and the SFL nomenclature isn't right either, AFAIK.
Quoted from superJackpot:(the new silver ones are crap)
Oh, thank god. I feel SO MUCH BETTER now. For the last x years, I thought I was going crazy, snapping or stripping these things, and thinking I completely mis-remembered being able to tighten them very snugly in the past. Same for the new Williams ones.
Glad it's not just me now.
Quoted from wxforecaster:What's left? In my mind I should have perfectly snappy flippers like the TZ I play nearby on location. Is this a possible bridge rectifier issue? I'm out of ideas.
Since you ruled out the opto boards (flipper opto boards), then likely your Fliptronics board needs work. Caps, transistors, resistors..
Quoted from jlbintn:[quoted image]
Vid, is your picture flipped or rotated?
Reason I ask is that I am having a heating issue with an upper flipper coil on my D&D machine. The coils on all three of my flippers are A-24-570/34-3600's. Not the PinCoil brand. I have never had to deal with the lower flippers. The upper flipper coil is new, installed a couple of months ago due to a similar over-heat issue, which at that time actually did blow the fuse (more on that a bit further down in this post). I suspect wiring, but as I look at it, oriented in the same manner as your picture shows, the bands are reversed on the diodes relative to your picture, as you can see here
[quoted image]
I'm trying not to overthink this, and I hope I am being somewhat clearer than mud but it is perplexing. And I am beginning to wonder whether it is wired properly, although color wise, the other two flippers and the respective wires are soldered to the coils in the same orientation as the upper flipper.
But only that upper flipper is getting hot. No other coil on the game, not one, even gets warm under extended play. Or if they do, by the time I lift the playfield to check them they have cooled off. The upper coil does not cool off quickly. It's almost as though there is a continuous current feed.
It got so hot last night that the game threw a fuse message on the display and stopped. After checking all of the fuses visually and with a DMM, not one fuse in the backbox or under the playfield was bad. Power off brought the game back up in a ready to play status.
Anyway, the thick/thin 43 volt tab looks like it's in the middle, the thin is definitely as your picture displays, and the thick wire is on the left. Does that sound right? I have looked and looked and looked, and I can not see any indication that the thick/thin wires on these coils are oriented as your picture shows.
Oh btw, disregard that chewed up wire, I did that last night (slipped with the iron in my hand) when I put a new switch in. It was getting late and I called it for the night. That wire is going to be replaced today.
Looks like your diodes are reversed from the picture, and notice that your thin, thick, and dual wire terminals are not in the same location.
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Wilmington, DE