(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

By vid1900

9 years ago


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There are 2684 posts in this topic. You are on page 52 of 54.
#2551 9 months ago

I just swapped out my flippers to a different color on my Deadpool. I purchased the flippers from PBL. The issue I am having is that both of the flipper bat slowly begins to move upwards. After 20 bats in move up by about a mm.

I checked the new flipper bay shafts with a micrometer and they are same thickness as the stock ones.
When I installed them I put a gap tool under flipper to ensure same height for both, I tighten the hex screw. to lock flipper in place, I cant tighten them anymore as they are very snug and I don't want to bend or break the shaft. They are not clamped down so much that there is not a gap between each plate that holds the flipper.
What am I doing wrong? Ive replaced flipper bats on my other sterns and Williams machines with no issues. The machine itself only has 300 plays on it.

flip (resized).jpg
#2552 9 months ago

Take some fine sandpaper and degloss the shafts of The flipper bats

Make your sandpaper strokes all lengthwise to the shaft

#2553 9 months ago

Are there any physical differences between Bally coil stops:
A-613-127
A-613-67

or A-613-83 for that matter?

Are these interchangeable? I have some A-613-67s that I ordered for my Playboy and want to use them on some linear flippers.

#2554 9 months ago

Has anyone had the experience of trying to remove a flipper bat when one of the bolts holding it in was broken off? I've got one and the bolt is broken flush with the pawl. I'm thinking using a cutting wheel on a Dremel and trying to cut the pawl. Does that sound possible or is there another way?

pawl (resized).jpg
#2555 9 months ago
Quoted from JRC6000:

Has anyone had the experience of trying to remove a flipper bat when one of the bolts holding it in was broken off? I've got one and the bolt is broken flush with the pawl. I'm thinking using a cutting wheel on a Dremel and trying to cut the pawl. Does that sound possible or is there another way?
[quoted image]

I too would like to know if there is a way to do this.

#2556 9 months ago

I'm getting ready to rebuild the flippers on my Vector, and I considered replacing the linear flippers with WPC type but I was having trouble finding some of the parts. Namely the "high voltage" EOS switches. Some of your links from pinball life no longer work, including the one to the proper EOS switch. I was able to find the WPC flipper assemblies but I was at a loss for the proper EOS switch. I ended up just buying a stupid rebuild kit for the linear flippers. Do you have a current link or a part number for the proper EOS switch for classic bally to WPC flipper mech swap? Next time I rebuild I'll get the WPC stuff. Searching pinball life and other sites for "high voltage end of stroke" wasn't bringing me much luck.

#2557 9 months ago
Quoted from JRC6000:

I'm thinking using a cutting wheel on a Dremel and trying to cut the pawl

I think you are on the right track there. I might try Dremel cutting a flat head slot in the broken off screw and removing with a flat head screwdriver. Try and wet a small rag or something to catch the grindings.

#2558 9 months ago
Quoted from Haymaker:

Do you have a current link or a part number for the proper EOS switch for classic bally to WPC flipper mech swap? Next time I rebuild I'll get the WPC stuff. Searching pinball life and other sites for "high voltage end of stroke" wasn't bringing me much luck.

You need this; https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-closed.html

WMS/Bally part number 03-7811

#2559 9 months ago
Quoted from dozer1:

I think you are on the right track there. I might try Dremel cutting a flat head slot in the broken off screw and removing with a flat head screwdriver. Try and wet a small rag or something to catch the grindings.

Great idea. Unfortunately, making a slot didn't work. Turns out the metal wasn't too strong and I was able to cut it off. Not as bad as I had feared.

#2560 9 months ago
Quoted from JRC6000:

Has anyone had the experience of trying to remove a flipper bat when one of the bolts holding it in was broken off? I've got one and the bolt is broken flush with the pawl. I'm thinking using a cutting wheel on a Dremel and trying to cut the pawl. Does that sound possible or is there another way?
[quoted image]

Have you tried a screw extractor?

#2561 9 months ago
Quoted from RDBowers:

Have you tried a save extractor?

Great minds think alike! I did try those, but couldn't get any bite into the screw.

3 weeks later
#2562 8 months ago

Well I tried to rebuild the lower right flipper today and It was a fail. The cap exploded after playing just a few min. I went from the blue FL23/600 to the proper FL-11630. The cap that was on there was not the larger yellow cap that you normal see used. I did not change out this cap as it came this way. The cap is attached across the EOS switch. And was not touching any other metal piece. As you can tell by the contacts it was past time to upgrade this flipper.

The lower left flipper also has a small cap instead of the yellow one that someone else had switched. I have not rebuild the left side yet.
Any ideas why this happened.IMG_5955 (resized).JPGIMG_5957 (resized).JPGIMG_5956 (resized).JPG

#2563 8 months ago
Quoted from lightingnut:

The cap exploded after playing just a few min.

you need a cap that is NOT polarized

#2564 8 months ago

How do you tell if a cap is polarized or non-polarized?

#2565 8 months ago
Quoted from lightingnut:

How do you tell if a cap is polarized or non-polarized?

Polarized caps have a stripe with a bunch of "- - - - -" showing one leg as being the Negative lead

#2566 8 months ago
Quoted from lightingnut:

How do you tell if a cap is polarized or non-polarized?

You need this cap.

https://www.pinballlife.com/22uf-250v-axial-capacitor.html

#2567 8 months ago

Thanks for your help I will place an order and replace both caps on the lower flippers. The other side has the same type.
Will it hurt anything to play the game with the cap missing?

#2568 8 months ago
Quoted from lightingnut:

Will it hurt anything to play the game with the cap missing?

Not in the short term.

1 week later
#2569 7 months ago

Well I was able to get both of the lower F-14 Tomcat flippers upgraded to the better version. Does make a difference in play. Worth the money but a pain to solder the wires on.

Now on to my flight 2000. Is there an upgrade kit for it's flippers? I have an issue with the wood screws have come loose that attach the flipper bracket to the bottom of the playfield. How do I go about fixing this? Looks to need new holes drilled to hold the bracket to the playfield or maybe plug the old holes and then put in new screws.

#2570 7 months ago
Quoted from lightingnut:

How do I go about fixing this? Looks to need new holes drilled
....

Naw much easier. Get a toothpick or 2 (chopstick, skewer), wood glue/gorilla, dip in glue, stick in hole, snap off or let dry then snap/cut off wood sticking out of hole.
Ready to go after that

#2571 7 months ago

Yep, stick a bamboo skewer in the hole after dipping it in wood glue. Snip it off flush with your wire cutters.

bamboo is harder than maple, so it will be a very good repair.

No need to even let the glue dry, run you screws in and get the game back running.

1 week later
#2572 7 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Now when the flipper is energized (the plunger all the way into the coil), we need the EOS Switch to open or the coil will overheat.
Press the plunger down all the way till it stops with your finger, and make sure the switch gap opens to EXACTLY 1/8" (3.2 mm). Not more, not less. (there are a few System11 games that want less than a 1/8" gap, check your manual)
You may have to fiddle with the leafs to get them touching when relaxed and 1/8" gap when plunged, but it is a lot easier to do on the bench than installed in the game. You will get the hang of it, take your time and get this exactly right.
A Leaf Adjuster tool makes setting switch gaps and tension a breeze. If you own a pinball game, you should have one in your tool box:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1518&parent=0
[quoted image]

I just re did the flippers in my T2 and the flippers are on the weak side now, I think the EOS is dis-engaging too soon.

As per the picture in this post, the gap looks like 1/16" and not 1/8". I have the leaf adjusters, for me to achieve the 1/8" I have to make the Eos disengage at around 3/4 or a hair less of the primary coil, so I think I am loosing power there... If I make the gap smaller, I can make it engage later....

I need practice setting this up, I am just wondering why does this need to be 1/8 and not 1/16 to optimize the power before the coil changes to low power.

What am I missing? Thanks
vid1900

#2573 7 months ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

As per the picture in this post, the gap looks like 1/16" and not 1/8". I have the leaf adjusters, for me to achieve the 1/8" I have to make the Eos disengage at around 3/4 or a hair less of the primary coil, so I think I am loosing power there... If I make the gap smaller, I can make it engage later....

I need practice setting this up, I am just wondering why does this need to be 1/8 and not 1/16 to optimize the power before the coil changes to low power.

It's impossible to make a **universal guide** to every single machine.

As per the manual, T2 indeed needs a 1/16" gap:
t2 (resized).png

#2574 7 months ago

thanks I missed this in the manual, appreciate the help, cheers.

#2575 7 months ago

Hi
When we are dealing with new Stern models, Is there a number of plays when the flippers start to get weak and worn out and would be better to rebuilt the flipper kit?
I have a spike 2 Iron Maiden but I’m not the 1st owner, so don’t know how it was like playing with the mechanism like new.
So don’t have a clue about the weakness of the flippers during the game. It is playing well but maybe it would be better and easier to get some shots with strong flippers
Like with a car, there are several parts with so much use that we must change before it stars to not work properly, from x miles to x miles.
All the best!

#2576 7 months ago
Quoted from mbarreira:

When we are dealing with new Stern models, Is there a number of plays when the flippers start to get weak and worn out and would be better to rebuilt the flipper kit?

You could look in the audits and see how many flips have been fired if it were on location.

If it came from a home use environment, you've got many years to go (unless gold dust is falling from a bad batch of coil stops, lol)

#2577 7 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You could look in the audits and see how many flips have been fired if it were on location.
If it came from a home use environment, you've got many years to go (unless gold dust is falling from a bad batch of coil stops, lol)

Yes, gold dust from the coil stop was the first sign that I noticed that maybe there were lots of games.
Then I changed coil stops and solve the issue.
Btw, what do you think about this audits? Time to rebuilt the flipper kit?
Thank you for your time.

0AAAB754-E0A6-4D32-9DDE-62EE7B61C123 (resized).png0E47586F-CEF7-4288-B9F2-1C640D397364 (resized).png51855537-DDF0-49DA-9402-3626E77EC2C9 (resized).png
#2578 7 months ago

^ that's still very low plays

#2579 7 months ago

Stern recommends considering a flipper rebuilt every 5000 games per the manual

#2580 7 months ago

On my gottlieb genesis, my left flipper acts a bit funky; only after holding it up for several (over 10) seconds, there develops a delay between when I press the flipper button, and when the bat flips. Also, with the flipper button held, and the bat up, I can force the bat down, and it takes a good 1/2 second for the primary coil to re-engage, which is very perplexing because the EOS switch on the flipper mech is normally open. So forcing the bat down immediately opens the EOS, so I don't think it's an oxidation problem with the EOS switch. It looks like it's in the correct position too. I'm thinking maybe a bad coil?

#2581 7 months ago
Quoted from djd9617:

On my gottlieb genesis, my left flipper acts a bit funky; only after holding it up for several (over 10) seconds, there develops a delay between when I press the flipper button, and when the bat flips. Also, with the flipper button held, and the bat up, I can force the bat down, and it takes a good 1/2 second for the primary coil to re-engage, which is very perplexing because the EOS switch on the flipper mech is normally open. So forcing the bat down immediately opens the EOS, so I don't think it's an oxidation problem with the EOS switch. It looks like it's in the correct position too. I'm thinking maybe a bad coil?

the eos should be normally closed at rest? if you push the bat down it closes again which gives it the extra power to stay up

#2582 7 months ago
Quoted from djd9617:

On my gottlieb genesis, my left flipper acts a bit funky; only after holding it up for several (over 10) seconds, there develops a delay between when I press the flipper button, and when the bat flips. Also, with the flipper button held, and the bat up, I can force the bat down, and it takes a good 1/2 second for the primary coil to re-engage, which is very perplexing because the EOS switch on the flipper mech is normally open. So forcing the bat down immediately opens the EOS, so I don't think it's an oxidation problem with the EOS switch. It looks like it's in the correct position too. I'm thinking maybe a bad coil?

Might be the plunger sticking to the coil sleeve, might be a swollen coil or just a bad dirty sleeve.

1 week later
#2583 7 months ago

Ok so I bought a twilight zone and the right flipper got really weak after my first 20 games or so......based on what I am reading in the beginning of this thread I don’t understand the EOS switch setup, this appears to be installed backwards? All 4 flippers have a similar setup, open at rest and closed when coil engaged. I ordered rebuild kits but want to better understand the problem / setup here, appreciate any help you all can provide!

04778A64-331E-45FE-8C73-16EB4869C3D2 (resized).jpegDEB0678F-AAE0-4E82-A05B-30F6D3225238 (resized).jpeg
#2584 7 months ago

Twilight Zone is a fliptronics game. None of the talk here about gaps, etc matters for that. There should be a note stapled to your playfield saying that the EOS is backwards from older games technially.

Fliptronics games should have Normally Open EOS switches. They should close right near the end of the stroke, but if they don't it's not a big deal. The game will even work fine with no EOS.

#2585 7 months ago

If the flipper is getting weak over time, it's usually the optos on your flipper board - either a good cleaning, or they need to be replaced from age.

#2586 7 months ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Twilight Zone is a fliptronics game. None of the talk here about gaps, etc matters for that. There should be a note stapled to your playfield saying that the EOS is backwards from older games technially.
Fliptronics games should have Normally Open EOS switches. They should close right near the end of the stroke, but if they don't it's not a big deal. The game will even work fine with no EOS.

Great thanks, appreciate the quick response!

#2587 7 months ago
Quoted from Coyote:

If the flipper is getting weak over time, it's usually the optos on your flipper board - either a good cleaning, or they need to be replaced from age.

I probably stated my problem wrong, it is what I suspected, a cracked bushing.

Will keep this in mind though!

46FC650B-2344-4378-8FE4-6F9BEEF981A6 (resized).jpeg
#2588 7 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The first problem is that the old coils are shorter than the modern standard, AND they are 28v instead of 50v.
So we need a SFL 19/400 - 30/750 coil. Often used in games like Black Knight*, the coil is full size, 28v and has plenty of power. Exactly what we need.
You also need a base plate, flipper bushing and a high voltage EOS switch (don't reuse the old one that lacks the "helper" spring leaf).
Terry at PL will actually make the entire assembly for you for only $36:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172
Here are the options to choose:
[quoted image]
I know right now many of you are saying "Thirty Six Dollars??? To rebuild my flipper?", but look at it this way:
1. You are getting a completely new everything. Nothing to polish or clean.
2. You are getting that "snappy" Fliptronic feel - the best flipper design ever made.
3. Rebuild kits in the future will only be $21 (instead of $54 for the old style Williams one).
4. You can sell your old mechs and coil and get a few bucks back towards your new stuff.
5. You can use modern flipper bats, so you get all the cool colors, transparent, illuminated......
* Firepower II, LaserCue and Starlight were the first games to switch to 50v flippers.
[quoted image]

Hey Vid,
I bought a beat up flash about 5 years ago I was going to get operational, play for a while then sell. I was going through my stuff a few weeks ago and discovered 3 (one left & 2 right)of the WPC flipper mechs I must have bought to upgrade the 3 flippers. They have the right coils but they all have the same EOS switch. In the game the lower right flipper has a dual contact switch, I'm guessing to actuate the upper right flipper. I have pulled anything apart yet but that switch stack looks pretty fat and I might have a hard time fitting it on the mounting bracket if i want to swap it over while I wait for a new switch to come in from pinball life. This is what I think I want to order:

https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-flipper-leaf-switch-double-contact.html

I just want to confirm that is the right one and get some direction on how to ensure everything is going to fit on the plate where they single eos switch is now.

20210328_223946 (resized).jpg20210328_224019 (resized).jpg

#2589 7 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

I just want to confirm that is the right one

That is a cabinet double flipper switch. You need this instead.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/ASW-A10-45

#2590 6 months ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

That is a cabinet double flipper switch. You need this instead.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/ASW-A10-45

Thanks Grumpster! So just add that onto the existing stack on the new assy?

#2591 6 months ago

Thanks for all the help in this thread.

I'm wondering if it makes sense to add capacitors to the eos switches of a wpc?

#2592 6 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

So just add that onto the existing stack on the new assy?

Yep!

#2593 6 months ago
Quoted from Kjarkur:

I'm wondering if it makes sense to add capacitors to the eos switches of a wpc?

Are you using a fliptronic board, then no. But if you are using parallel wound coils on a WPC flipper bracket, then yes use a cap.

#2594 6 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

Hey Vid,
I bought a beat up flash about 5 years ago I was going to get operational, play for a while then sell. I was going through my stuff a few weeks ago and discovered 3 (one left & 2 right)of the WPC flipper mechs I must have bought to upgrade the 3 flippers. They have the right coils but they all have the same EOS switch. In the game the lower right flipper has a dual contact switch, I'm guessing to actuate the upper right flipper. I have pulled anything apart yet but that switch stack looks pretty fat and I might have a hard time fitting it on the mounting bracket if i want to swap it over while I wait for a new switch to come in from pinball life. This is what I think I want to order:
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-flipper-leaf-switch-double-contact.html
I just want to confirm that is the right one and get some direction on how to ensure everything is going to fit on the plate where they single eos switch is now.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Get rid of those crimp terminals too.

High vibration location, let alone the thin wire gauge

#2595 6 months ago

well would you look at that? after some more rummaging around I found my bin with the leftover EOS switches and low & behold....a nice fresh ASW-A10-45 from marco specialties. I think bolting on the backplane of the switch mount will work.

20210329_102842 (resized).jpg
#2596 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Get rid of those crimp terminals too.
High vibration location, let alone the thin wire gauge

yup good call Vid. I'll get rid of those b connectors. another question and i think you have covered it previously. Is the stock bushing that came on the assy from Terry suitable or do I need to change that?

#2597 6 months ago
Quoted from rcbrown316:

Is the stock bushing that came on the assy from Terry suitable or do I need to change that?

Yes, bushing is good; matches that baseplate

#2598 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yes, bushing is good; matches that baseplate

Thanks you sir. I will probably get on this project tomorrow night and update the thread on how it goes. Seems pretty straightforward from here.

#2599 6 months ago

I really do not know if ths is the right place to post this, but I watched a cool video from Jersey Jacks on flippers last week and can't find the thread.

I have 2 Addams family games and one played so much harder, I realized the flippers were pointing down the drain like 2 degrees compared to the other machine. Moved the flippers up so little you can hardly notice it and it is like a new game!

What is the best way to set the angle of flippers on a game?

#2600 6 months ago
Quoted from JohnTTwo:

I really do not know if ths is the right place to post this, but I watched a cool video from Jersey Jacks on flippers last week and can't find the thread.
I have 2 Addams family games and one played so much harder, I realized the flippers were pointing down the drain like 2 degrees compared to the other machine. Moved the flippers up so little you can hardly notice it and it is like a new game!
What is the best way to set the angle of flippers on a game?

Williams games have holes in the playfield that should be aligned to the back edge of the flipper bat. Usually that results in flippers whose front edges are parallel to the inlane guide, but not in all cases

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