(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

By vid1900

9 years ago


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  • Latest reply 17 days ago by Enochsmoken
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Topic index (key posts)

15 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 2,687 posts in this topic. You are on page 51 of 54.
#2501 1 year ago
Quoted from Gorgar666:

....I just noticed it last night. Comparing to another Pin of the same era...I am the 2nd owner. Every switch and coil is like new. It Was Covered and stored in A/C From day 1. Long story...a real HUO.

#2502 1 year ago

Running into an issue, On my Deadpool (Spike2) I'm finding the left flipper coil is getting really hot (plunger too). Like burn your finger if you hold it too long hot. Right flipper just seems warm after play.

I checked out the coil stops and they look ok, swapped the coil sleeves (no apparent wear or anything really), checked movement up and down which seemed ok, and checked the EOS is registering in the switch test. Flippers seem strong at least initially. I checked for any apparent shorts too, and couldn't see any wires that look problematic.

What can cause this heat build up? Any tips on what to check next?

There are two different coils in Deadpool
Left flipper part number: 090-5020-20-ND
Right flipper part number: 090-5032-ND

#2503 1 year ago
Quoted from Junglist:

On my Deadpool (Spike2)

I'd post this as a separate thread, as most of the conversation here is on older SS machines not modern ones. There are a couple of threads out there already including someone that was putting together fan assemblies to reduce the temp.

Search for Pinmonk or - https://pinmonk.com/collections/tmnt-stern/products/tibetan-breeze-2-flipper-coil-cooling-kit

BTW, I had the same issue with my BKSOR Premium not making it up the center ramp after extended play. I think this is an issue with a number of Spike machines.

#2504 1 year ago

Noob here please go easy on me. I recently picked up a Williams Laser Ball. Flippers need work and I'm thinking of using this modern style upgrade. Old post I know but does anyone know if this will work with Laser Ball as it has a double EOS switch on the right flipper, which works the single flipper on the upper right?

20201021_191129 (resized).jpg
#2505 1 year ago

I don’t think your issue will be the EOS stack, but the size of the new base bracket. It is much larger than the 2 piece setup on that machine.

I would wait in confirmation from someone who has tried it before ordering parts. I can also take measurements if you need.

#2506 1 year ago

I happen to have my Laser Ball playfield up right now doing a general rebuild/refurb and looked at the spacing around the 3 flippers, there's plenty of room to put the newer style plates in all 3 locations. I use the system 11 style (full stroke) when I do this kind of mod. I did it to Time Warp, Tri Zone, and Flash a long time ago and the only one that required modification was the upper right flipper on flash.

1 month later
#2507 12 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

[quoted image]
Since I always catch hell if I suggest doing a repair other than stock....
Pin-Logic sells a replacement button that you can put on the end of your crank.
http://pin-logic.com/black-bally-buttons.shtml
$4 is a quick way to get a sloppy set of flippers flipping again.
Is it as good as switching back to old style mechs? Nope.
But it's cheap, quick and it works!
30 years latter, we finally got our replaceable nylon button.

Looks like the site is no more...I'm assuming that means that these are long gone / dead / no more, and thus the only real option is to just 'downgrade'?

I'm waiting on a response from PBR so I can order the parts, which I hope they have in stock..but barring that I may have to live with linear flippers for a bit I'm afraid, unless the button is available somewhere else (doubtful).

#2508 12 months ago

It appears Tom Callahan's pin-logic website is gone.

#2509 12 months ago
Quoted from KSUWildcatFan:

Looks like the site is no more...I'm assuming that means that these are long gone / dead / no more, and thus the only real option is to just 'downgrade'?

Looks like it's gone for good
.

You can upgrade with a new classic kit:

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-BFLIP03

Or downgrade to a life of expensive maintenance and slow flips with a linear rebuild kit

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-BFLIP04

#2510 12 months ago

I vote for the new classic kit!!

#2511 12 months ago

I had requested all the parts from PBR to "downgrade" away from linear and it sounds like like they were all in stock, so no issue. My worry was that they might be out of stock and I might end up having to deal with linear for a bit.

Can't wait for my Eight Ball Deluxe to be properly downgraded!

#2513 12 months ago

Yeah, I pinned all my hopes to PBR and placed my $340 PBL order (love those guys!) on the 29th, not that I couldn't place another order after the fact. I followed instructions and ordered expansion springs and williams switches as well, individually piecing together the rest of the 3-flipper kit from PBR.

Thanks again for this thread and for all your guides here. You are very much appreciated!

#2514 12 months ago

So question. When adjusting the eos switch, are you doing 1/8” between the contacts or the leafs?

#2515 12 months ago
Quoted from Bax1:

So question. When adjusting the eos switch, are you doing 1/8” between the contacts or the leafs?

Contacts.

#2516 11 months ago

Thank you sir. That is what I thought.

2 weeks later
#2517 11 months ago

I’m working on a Captain Fantastic for a friend, and he wants modern flippers in it. I am going to struggle to get them to fit on the playfield. Perhaps I should try to move the modern parts onto the old base plates. I also expect to struggle with the power on these. He is asking to run a separate power supply for the big coils. I’m very apprehensive about all of this. I think he is going to smash the plastics and targets. I could really use some advice from anyone who has done this mod.

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#2518 11 months ago

I wouldn't spend any time on all that modification. Why not rebuild original flippers with all new parts? If he wants more power, change coils.

#2519 11 months ago
Quoted from FantasticPinball:

I’m working on a Captain Fantastic for a friend, and he wants modern flippers in it. I am going to struggle to get them to fit on the playfield.

I'd just rebuild the original flippers with a new kit from PBR

Adding more power supplies is going to make the game unserviceable for the next owner.

That's one of the best selling pins of all time, and no one has ever said it needed more power to the flippers

#2520 11 months ago

Hey Vid - wondering if you have a suggestion for replacing this EoS?
Fathom/Flash Gordon linear flippers: rebuilding with the older kit.
They are the staged EoS on the right flipper for each game.

elsw-0023 (resized).jpg

Just pick these up and replace, or is there an upgrade I should nab?
Capture (resized).PNG

#2521 11 months ago

You should be able to use the same switches.

#2522 11 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

You should be able to use the same switches.

Just stack and gap these accordingly? Not sure I understand what you mean by 'same switches.'
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-closed.html

#2523 11 months ago

You can't use the 03-7811.

Your first picture showing all the switches together, thats what you want, even if you have to combine 2 others to do it. "Same switches" just means whatever the linear has for switches, the earlier bakelite style will use the same switches.

They aren't cheap are they.... I usually just put new contacts on the old blades, or just build new blades with new contacts instead.

#2524 11 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

You can't use the 03-7811.
Your first picture showing all the switches together, thats what you want, even if you have to combine 2 others to do it. "Same switches" just means whatever the linear has for switches, the earlier bakelite style will use the same switches.
They aren't cheap are they.... I usually just put new contacts on the old blades, or just build new blades with new contacts instead.

Thanks yeah I was confused what you meant by same switches. I was wondering how tf I could use the Williams in a stack, lol.

#2525 11 months ago

ASW-A20-34 and ASW-A10-45 are what I use. In fact, I'm using them to replace a burnt to hell switch assembly on the lower right flipper of an Eight Ball Champ today. They are a bit pricey, but remember, they are high current tungsten contacts too.

#2526 11 months ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

They are a bit pricey, but remember, they are high current tungsten contacts too.

40 cents each at pinball resource.... gold ones are 36 cents each. This is why I usually replace or build the switches myself. I'm a cheap-ass!!

#2527 11 months ago

Yes, it's way cheaper to just rebuild the switch stack yourself with parts from PBR.

Because they are so cheap, buy a dozen of each style blade, and maybe some fishpaper to insulate.

Or you can stack already assembled switches. They won't look exactly like the Bally, but the function is the same

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1 week later
#2528 10 months ago

So I read through the section on upgrading and whatnot... I’m a bit lost...

My Bally Wizard! Needs some flipper help. One side is OK, the other is shot, and all sloppy, you can tell one side was rebuilt...

Am I reading correctly that I can modernize this game with a flipper that will be cheaper to repair in the future for roughly the same price as buying a full repair kit for the originals? The Williams WPC swap?

The links from the many year old page Vid1900 did aren’t quite active, i went to missing pages. I don’t mind spending money, I don’t want to spend it twice!

Thanks!

#2529 10 months ago
Quoted from Jstrube:

So I read through the section on upgrading and whatnot... I’m a bit lost...
My Bally Wizard! Needs some flipper help. One side is OK, the other is shot, and all sloppy, you can tell one side was rebuilt...
Am I reading correctly that I can modernize this game with a flipper that will be cheaper to repair in the future for roughly the same price as buying a full repair kit for the originals? The Williams WPC swap?
The links from the many year old page Vid1900 did aren’t quite active, i went to missing pages. I don’t mind spending money, I don’t want to spend it twice!
Thanks!

Get a rebuild kit from PBR. Your stuff is just worn out. The same original style replacement parts are available for now and will be for a long time. You could even get new base plates from Pinball Life. If you have a weak coil, do them when you rebuild. It is a night and day difference once both are rebuilt properly with new parts. https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-bally-flipper-base.html

If I got a machine with some modified flippers, I'd remove and go back to original. Just my preference.

#2530 10 months ago
Quoted from Jstrube:

Am I reading correctly that I can modernize this game with a flipper that will be cheaper to repair in the future for roughly the same price as buying a full repair kit for the originals? The Williams WPC swap?

There are more choices available today, including new baseplates and such.

Just rebuild the ones you have, both at the same time.

#2531 10 months ago

Thanks guys! Items getting ordered! Looks like the kit from Pinball Life has everything I need, except bats and rubbers. My bats don’t match, so I’ll add those in. Anything else?

#2532 10 months ago
Quoted from Jstrube:

Thanks guys! Items getting ordered! Looks like the kit from Pinball Life has everything I need, except bats and rubbers. My bats don’t match, so I’ll add those in. Anything else?

It's cheaper from PBR, especially shipping

http://www.pbresource.com

#2533 10 months ago

HI, I'm working in a '74 Williams Triple Action and feel like the flippers are a little weak. I appreciate this thread, it's helped me realize I need to rebuild and I'm ready to give it a go. I'm planning on keeping with the original style (I like things as vintage as possible). I thought I'd check the coils and have a question. The flippers right now have FL21-375/28-400. However the manual states it should be FL20-300/28-400. As far as I can tell, I think the coils are working, but don't think they are the right ones.

Should I order new FL20-300/28-400 or keep the ones in there? What would be the difference? Could the wrong coil be causing the flippers to feel a little weak?

Thanks.

#2534 10 months ago

The correct flipper coils would be slightly stronger. If they haven't been rebuilt though, do that first. That's more where your strength gets robbed, from worn/dirty/sticking parts.

#2535 10 months ago

I've had the same thing.. There's a noticeable difference between the coil strengths, I'd definitely recommend swapping to the stronger ones

#2536 10 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's cheaper from PBR, especially shipping
http://www.pbresource.com

Thanks! I did a small order from them today to establish an account, bigger one when I get this paid. Not used to doing business like it is 1985... I even used the telephone!

#2537 10 months ago
Quoted from Jstrube:

Thanks! I did a small order from them today to establish an account, bigger one when I get this paid. Not used to doing business like it is 1985... I even used the telephone!

Steve is a good guy. Very nostalgic to pay after you receive your parts.

#2538 10 months ago

I'm finally getting a Pinbot again and want to go with the WPC-like flippers. After going through the thread, I'm trying to determine what is the best option and would appreciate any feedback based on experience. Thanks in advance!

Full Flipper Assembly, w/FL-11630(Parallel), A-10821 Stop, 03-7811 EOS
https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html

or

Full Flipper Assembly, w/SFL-23-600/30-2600, A-10821 Stop, 03-7811 EOS
https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html

or

A-13524-8 Rebuild Kit:
https://www.pinballlife.com/flipper-rebuild-kit-williamsbally-081993-101998-spooky-2014-present-jjp-2012-present.html

03-7811 EOS:
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-closed.html

03-7568 Nylon Flipper Bushing:
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-nylon-flipper-bushing.html

Spring modification:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers#post-284661

#2539 10 months ago

I just installed the Parallel WPC style setup on my #HS. I ordered the parts from Marco however looks like Pinball life are $10 cheaper than Marco.

Do not forget the Capacitor that parallels the EOS switch.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C2.2M250VA-NP

-or-

https://www.pinballlife.com/22uf-250v-axial-capacitor.html

Replace the OEM serial coil FL23/600-30/2600 50V with Parallel FL11630 50V coil. Install a Capacitor to prevent large EOS spark making the switch last a lot longer.

#2540 10 months ago
Quoted from Pin-Pilot:

I just installed the Parallel WPC style setup on my #HS. I ordered the parts from Marco however looks like Pinball life are $10 cheaper than Marco.
Do not forget the Capacitor that parallels the EOS switch.
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C2.2M250VA-NP
-or-
https://www.pinballlife.com/22uf-250v-axial-capacitor.html
Replace the OEM serial coil FL23/600-30/2600 50V with Parallel FL11630 50V coil. Install a Capacitor to prevent large EOS spark making the switch last a lot longer.

Cool. So it looks like I'm going with option 1 and the capacitor.

Full Flipper Assembly, w/FL-11630(Parallel), A-10821 Stop, 03-7811 EOS
https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html

2.2uf 250v Axial Capacitor
https://www.pinballlife.com/22uf-250v-axial-capacitor.html

#2542 10 months ago

Thats a good direct replacement, but I'm leaning towards the newer WPC style setup.

#2543 10 months ago
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:

Thats a good direct replacement, but I'm leaning towards the newer WPC style setup.

Oh, Yea, My bad. I did not look close enough!

#2544 10 months ago

How do you determine the correct tightness of the flipper pawl on the shaft? If you tighten too much the pawl bends and doesn’t hold. If you tighten too little it doesn’t hold. Any suggestions on how to get it right.

#2545 10 months ago
Quoted from OTRChief:

How do you determine the correct tightness of the flipper pawl on the shaft? If you tighten too much the pawl bends and doesn’t hold. If you tighten too little it doesn’t hold. Any suggestions on how to get it right.

I think they used to be set at 75 Inch Pounds on a torque wrench for 1960-80s

Remember that's Inch pounds, not Foot pounds - make sure you use the correct scale

For 90s, just snug it up, if it slips, give it a little more

I'll measure the next modern flipper rebuild I do and see how much torque it takes

#2546 10 months ago

With help from this thread, I rebuilt my flippers and replaced the coils. The coils that were on my machine were weaker than standard. One side works great, but the other won't fire. When I push the flipper button, I hear a noise but it doesn't move. I've already re-soldered everything just to be sure, so I'm pretty confident that it isn't a problem there. Interestingly enough, if I hold the button and manually move the coil, it will hold on. It just won't fire when I push the button (just make a weak noise). Is it possible I just got a bad coil? Any other thoughts?

#2547 10 months ago
Quoted from JRC6000:

It just won't fire when I push the button (just make a weak noise)

Did you change the EOS switches too? If so, double check the gap, soldering, and also new ones like to be cleaned before installing because they may have some protective film (oil)on the contacts.

#2548 10 months ago
Quoted from JRC6000:

With help from this thread, I rebuilt my flippers and replaced the coils. The coils that were on my machine were weaker than standard. One side works great, but the other won't fire. When I push the flipper button, I hear a noise but it doesn't move. I've already re-soldered everything just to be sure, so I'm pretty confident that it isn't a problem there. Interestingly enough, if I hold the button and manually move the coil, it will hold on. It just won't fire when I push the button (just make a weak noise). Is it possible I just got a bad coil? Any other thoughts?

You did not say what game you have, or post a pic; but I'd put money on with Dozer1 that your EOS is the problem

#2549 10 months ago

Thanks, I actually thought of the EOS switch. I originally didn't change it, but decided to when I did the second round of soldering. So, the situation is the same with both the old and new switch (although I did run a flexstone through the new one based on the suggestion just in case).

Attached are some pictures. I had to solder on some extra wire because everything was really short and I'm new to soldering, so I know it's not real neat. But that's what it looks like now.

Also, here is a video of what's happening. I'm pretty sure I put the outer wires on the same sides they were. Would this happen if I accidentally inverted them?

This is a '74 Williams Triple Action. Thanks!

IMG_0904 (resized).JPGIMG_0906 (resized).JPG
#2550 10 months ago

Well I just learned a lesson in taking better pictures before moving anything. Turns out I reversed the two outer lugs. I switched the wires and now it's working. Thanks for the input.

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