Running into an issue, On my Deadpool (Spike2) I'm finding the left flipper coil is getting really hot (plunger too). Like burn your finger if you hold it too long hot. Right flipper just seems warm after play.

I checked out the coil stops and they look ok, swapped the coil sleeves (no apparent wear or anything really), checked movement up and down which seemed ok, and checked the EOS is registering in the switch test. Flippers seem strong at least initially. I checked for any apparent shorts too, and couldn't see any wires that look problematic.

What can cause this heat build up? Any tips on what to check next?

There are two different coils in Deadpool
Left flipper part number: 090-5020-20-ND
Right flipper part number: 090-5032-ND

I'd post this as a separate thread, as most of the conversation here is on older SS machines not modern ones. There are a couple of threads out there already including someone that was putting together fan assemblies to reduce the temp.

Search for Pinmonk or - https://pinmonk.com/collections/tmnt-stern/products/tibetan-breeze-2-flipper-coil-cooling-kit

BTW, I had the same issue with my BKSOR Premium not making it up the center ramp after extended play. I think this is an issue with a number of Spike machines.

Noob here please go easy on me. I recently picked up a Williams Laser Ball. Flippers need work and I'm thinking of using this modern style upgrade. Old post I know but does anyone know if this will work with Laser Ball as it has a double EOS switch on the right flipper, which works the single flipper on the upper right?

20201021_191129 (resized).jpg

I don’t think your issue will be the EOS stack, but the size of the new base bracket. It is much larger than the 2 piece setup on that machine.

I would wait in confirmation from someone who has tried it before ordering parts. I can also take measurements if you need.

I happen to have my Laser Ball playfield up right now doing a general rebuild/refurb and looked at the spacing around the 3 flippers, there's plenty of room to put the newer style plates in all 3 locations. I use the system 11 style (full stroke) when I do this kind of mod. I did it to Time Warp, Tri Zone, and Flash a long time ago and the only one that required modification was the upper right flipper on flash.

Looks like the site is no more...I'm assuming that means that these are long gone / dead / no more, and thus the only real option is to just 'downgrade'?

I'm waiting on a response from PBR so I can order the parts, which I hope they have in stock..but barring that I may have to live with linear flippers for a bit I'm afraid, unless the button is available somewhere else (doubtful).

It appears Tom Callahan's pin-logic website is gone.

I vote for the new classic kit!!

I had requested all the parts from PBR to "downgrade" away from linear and it sounds like like they were all in stock, so no issue. My worry was that they might be out of stock and I might end up having to deal with linear for a bit.

Can't wait for my Eight Ball Deluxe to be properly downgraded!

Yeah, I pinned all my hopes to PBR and placed my $340 PBL order (love those guys!) on the 29th, not that I couldn't place another order after the fact. I followed instructions and ordered expansion springs and williams switches as well, individually piecing together the rest of the 3-flipper kit from PBR.

Thanks again for this thread and for all your guides here. You are very much appreciated!

So question. When adjusting the eos switch, are you doing 1/8” between the contacts or the leafs?

Thank you sir. That is what I thought.

I’m working on a Captain Fantastic for a friend, and he wants modern flippers in it. I am going to struggle to get them to fit on the playfield. Perhaps I should try to move the modern parts onto the old base plates. I also expect to struggle with the power on these. He is asking to run a separate power supply for the big coils. I’m very apprehensive about all of this. I think he is going to smash the plastics and targets. I could really use some advice from anyone who has done this mod.

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I wouldn't spend any time on all that modification. Why not rebuild original flippers with all new parts? If he wants more power, change coils.

Hey Vid - wondering if you have a suggestion for replacing this EoS?
Fathom/Flash Gordon linear flippers: rebuilding with the older kit.
They are the staged EoS on the right flipper for each game.

elsw-0023 (resized).jpg

Just pick these up and replace, or is there an upgrade I should nab?
Capture (resized).PNG

You should be able to use the same switches.

Just stack and gap these accordingly? Not sure I understand what you mean by 'same switches.'
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-closed.html

You can't use the 03-7811.

Your first picture showing all the switches together, thats what you want, even if you have to combine 2 others to do it. "Same switches" just means whatever the linear has for switches, the earlier bakelite style will use the same switches.

They aren't cheap are they.... I usually just put new contacts on the old blades, or just build new blades with new contacts instead.

Thanks yeah I was confused what you meant by same switches. I was wondering how tf I could use the Williams in a stack, lol.

ASW-A20-34 and ASW-A10-45 are what I use. In fact, I'm using them to replace a burnt to hell switch assembly on the lower right flipper of an Eight Ball Champ today. They are a bit pricey, but remember, they are high current tungsten contacts too.

40 cents each at pinball resource.... gold ones are 36 cents each. This is why I usually replace or build the switches myself. I'm a cheap-ass!!

So I read through the section on upgrading and whatnot... I’m a bit lost...

My Bally Wizard! Needs some flipper help. One side is OK, the other is shot, and all sloppy, you can tell one side was rebuilt...

Am I reading correctly that I can modernize this game with a flipper that will be cheaper to repair in the future for roughly the same price as buying a full repair kit for the originals? The Williams WPC swap?

The links from the many year old page Vid1900 did aren’t quite active, i went to missing pages. I don’t mind spending money, I don’t want to spend it twice!

Thanks!

Get a rebuild kit from PBR. Your stuff is just worn out. The same original style replacement parts are available for now and will be for a long time. You could even get new base plates from Pinball Life. If you have a weak coil, do them when you rebuild. It is a night and day difference once both are rebuilt properly with new parts. https://www.pinballlife.com/classic-bally-flipper-base.html

If I got a machine with some modified flippers, I'd remove and go back to original. Just my preference.

Thanks guys! Items getting ordered! Looks like the kit from Pinball Life has everything I need, except bats and rubbers. My bats don’t match, so I’ll add those in. Anything else?

HI, I'm working in a '74 Williams Triple Action and feel like the flippers are a little weak. I appreciate this thread, it's helped me realize I need to rebuild and I'm ready to give it a go. I'm planning on keeping with the original style (I like things as vintage as possible). I thought I'd check the coils and have a question. The flippers right now have FL21-375/28-400. However the manual states it should be FL20-300/28-400. As far as I can tell, I think the coils are working, but don't think they are the right ones.

Should I order new FL20-300/28-400 or keep the ones in there? What would be the difference? Could the wrong coil be causing the flippers to feel a little weak?

Thanks.

The correct flipper coils would be slightly stronger. If they haven't been rebuilt though, do that first. That's more where your strength gets robbed, from worn/dirty/sticking parts.

I've had the same thing.. There's a noticeable difference between the coil strengths, I'd definitely recommend swapping to the stronger ones

Thanks! I did a small order from them today to establish an account, bigger one when I get this paid. Not used to doing business like it is 1985... I even used the telephone!

Steve is a good guy. Very nostalgic to pay after you receive your parts.

I'm finally getting a Pinbot again and want to go with the WPC-like flippers. After going through the thread, I'm trying to determine what is the best option and would appreciate any feedback based on experience. Thanks in advance!

Full Flipper Assembly, w/FL-11630(Parallel), A-10821 Stop, 03-7811 EOS
https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html

or

Full Flipper Assembly, w/SFL-23-600/30-2600, A-10821 Stop, 03-7811 EOS
https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html

or

A-13524-8 Rebuild Kit:
https://www.pinballlife.com/flipper-rebuild-kit-williamsbally-081993-101998-spooky-2014-present-jjp-2012-present.html

03-7811 EOS:
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-end-of-stroke-switch-normally-closed.html

03-7568 Nylon Flipper Bushing:
https://www.pinballlife.com/williamsbally-nylon-flipper-bushing.html

Spring modification:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers#post-284661

I just installed the Parallel WPC style setup on my #HS. I ordered the parts from Marco however looks like Pinball life are $10 cheaper than Marco.

Do not forget the Capacitor that parallels the EOS switch.

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/C2.2M250VA-NP

-or-

https://www.pinballlife.com/22uf-250v-axial-capacitor.html

Replace the OEM serial coil FL23/600-30/2600 50V with Parallel FL11630 50V coil. Install a Capacitor to prevent large EOS spark making the switch last a lot longer.

Cool. So it looks like I'm going with option 1 and the capacitor.

Full Flipper Assembly, w/FL-11630(Parallel), A-10821 Stop, 03-7811 EOS
https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-021992-to-101998.html

2.2uf 250v Axial Capacitor
https://www.pinballlife.com/22uf-250v-axial-capacitor.html

Check this link out: https://www.pinballlife.com/full-flipper-assembly-for-williamsbally-machines-from-031987-to-111991.html

This may be what you need and includes the CAP.

Thats a good direct replacement, but I'm leaning towards the newer WPC style setup.

Oh, Yea, My bad. I did not look close enough!

How do you determine the correct tightness of the flipper pawl on the shaft? If you tighten too much the pawl bends and doesn’t hold. If you tighten too little it doesn’t hold. Any suggestions on how to get it right.

With help from this thread, I rebuilt my flippers and replaced the coils. The coils that were on my machine were weaker than standard. One side works great, but the other won't fire. When I push the flipper button, I hear a noise but it doesn't move. I've already re-soldered everything just to be sure, so I'm pretty confident that it isn't a problem there. Interestingly enough, if I hold the button and manually move the coil, it will hold on. It just won't fire when I push the button (just make a weak noise). Is it possible I just got a bad coil? Any other thoughts?

Did you change the EOS switches too? If so, double check the gap, soldering, and also new ones like to be cleaned before installing because they may have some protective film (oil)on the contacts.

Thanks, I actually thought of the EOS switch. I originally didn't change it, but decided to when I did the second round of soldering. So, the situation is the same with both the old and new switch (although I did run a flexstone through the new one based on the suggestion just in case).

Attached are some pictures. I had to solder on some extra wire because everything was really short and I'm new to soldering, so I know it's not real neat. But that's what it looks like now.

Also, here is a video of what's happening. I'm pretty sure I put the outer wires on the same sides they were. Would this happen if I accidentally inverted them?

This is a '74 Williams Triple Action. Thanks!

IMG_0904 (resized).JPG

IMG_0906 (resized).JPG

Well I just learned a lesson in taking better pictures before moving anything. Turns out I reversed the two outer lugs. I switched the wires and now it's working. Thanks for the input.