(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

8 years ago



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There are 2494 posts in this topic. You are on page 47 of 50.
#2301 1 year ago
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#2302 1 year ago
Quoted from heni1977:

You should be able to drill a small hole in the EOS plate. And hook your spring there. What kits did you buy?

I had bought the ones that were listed as being for Funhouse - https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/WFLKIT (I didn't buy them from Marco as I'm in the UK).

I have managed to cancel the order though, so can buy whatever instead.

I guess what I need to know is, do I have to reinstall that yellow capacitor? Why is it needed on Funhouse but not on TAF, for example?

EDIT: Regarding drilling, thanks.. but to be honest the baseplates aren't that much to buy and the chances of me screwing it up are far greater.

#2303 1 year ago

Just realised it's not as simple as I thought because the newer rebuild kits have "normally open" EOS switches, and Funhouse uses a normally closed one. Basically creating a whole load of extra hassle for myself.

#2304 1 year ago

I know pinball life has the upgraded flipper kits and new brackets. I have not done a FH just space station and F-14. I would think it is still possible to do and maybe not that hard. Take a few pics of the assembly. As for the yellow cap you would only need to replace it if it was there to begin with

#2305 1 year ago

Hello! I Am replacing flippers coil stops on my Twilight Zone and noticed that those installed by the previous owner are still in nice shape. These are about 1mm longer than those bought from ministry of pinball shop (Part A-12111). Anyone know which one is the correct length and/or where the other should go?
Thanks!

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#2306 1 year ago

You can use either one. Sometimes people use the longer one to make trapping up harder. Use shorter one for making trapping up easier.

#2307 1 year ago

Usually one is correct, but I think TZ was the swapover game?

#2308 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Usually one is correct, but I think TZ was the swapover game?

Which swapover?
I have bought both PN A-12111 and A-12390 (for those pin that needs it) but they have the same length and shape! What should be the difference?

Do you know what is the PN for these longer coil stop?

#2309 1 year ago
Quoted from Pesmerga:

Which swapover?
I have bought both PN A-12111 and A-12390 (for those pin that needs it) but they have the same length and shape! What should be the difference?
Do you know what is the PN for these longer coil stop?

PBR has all three listed on their site with lengths: http://www.pbresource.com/KT-WFLIP05.html. I can't ever get the same measurements they do but good for comparison. My memory is a bit hazy on this, but some time in the 90s Williams swapped from medium to tall stops, making the flippers shallower, and I've heard it mentioned that midway through the TZ run was when this happened?

I'd probably just go with whatever part number is listed in the manual though, unless you have a play style preference. I had to put taller stops on my Funhouse because the shorter sys11 style ones were just too steep for me

1 week later
#2310 1 year ago
Quoted from TheNoTrashCougar:

Hey there,
The plastic spacer is for under the flipper bat. It is meant to raise the flipper away from the playfield slightly. Some early games needed this spacer to keep the flipper from dragging on the playfield.
More info here:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=4198
Thanks,
--Scott

I just used this technique on a Gottlieb EM game where one of the flippers was sitting a bit low and just about dragging on the playfield. There was already a light drag mark from the original parts, so this was an issue even before I put the new parts in.

I added a couple of 1/4" flat nylon washers to bring the flipper back up to the correct height.

I was able to find them locally: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-4-Count-1-4-in-Nylon-Standard-SAE-Flat-Washer/3013086

#2311 1 year ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I just used this technique on a Gottlieb EM game where one of the flippers was sitting a bit low and just about dragging on the playfield. There was already a light drag mark from the original parts, so this was an issue even before I put the new parts in.
I added a couple of 1/4" flat nylon washers to bring the flipper back up to the correct height.
I was able to find them locally: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-4-Count-1-4-in-Nylon-Standard-SAE-Flat-Washer/3013086

You reminded me of a problem I had on my Grand Prix EM. It too was dragging. The flippers bats were the old, 2 piece style with the plastic bat screwed to the metal post and arm. I simply removed the plastic bat, bent the arm up (it is a softer metal) and re-assembled. No more dragging flipper!

#2312 1 year ago

I ordered one of those flipper adjustment tools from Planetary (and because Marco was out) not so much because I feel like it’s necessary, but rather just because I think it’s cool.

It’s pretty funny though. The tool is $1 and shipping was over $7...

Oh well

#2313 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

You reminded me of a problem I had on my Grand Prix EM. It too was dragging. The flippers bats were the old, 2 piece style with the plastic bat screwed to the metal post and arm. I simply removed the plastic bat, bent the arm up (it is a softer metal) and re-assembled. No more dragging flipper!

I always replace em bat's with newer single piece ones. I've seen many older ones that have sagged. Plus the new ones are lighter

#2314 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I always replace em bat's with newer single piece ones. I've seen many older ones that have sagged. Plus the new ones are lighter

How do you handle the set screw? If you use a modern flipper bat without the recess on the shaft, the mushrooming of the shaft from the pointed set screw makes it impossible to remove.

#2315 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

How do you handle the set screw? If you use a modern flipper bat without the recess on the shaft, the mushrooming of the shaft from the pointed set screw makes it impossible to remove.

You have to use and old bat as a sample and carefully dremel out the notch in the same place.

Its actually pretty easy.

I have chucked the bat into my drill motor and spun it on a file also, takes awhile.

#2316 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

How do you handle the set screw? If you use a modern flipper bat without the recess on the shaft, the mushrooming of the shaft from the pointed set screw makes it impossible to remove.

Never had that problem somehow

#2317 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Never had that problem somehow

It can happen, but Vid mentioned it early on, and to cut a shallow notch is fast and easy.
Just tape it off and make a little cut all around the shaft, it doesnt have to be deep at all.

#2318 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

You have to use and old bat as a sample and carefully dremel out the notch in the same place.
Its actually pretty easy.
I have chucked the bat into my drill motor and spun it on a file also, takes awhile.

Thanks! I'll give that a try! Last game I had with that flipper bat style, I replaced the flipper shaft clamp with a modern part. That worked pretty good too.

#2319 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

How do you handle the set screw? If you use a modern flipper bat without the recess on the shaft, the mushrooming of the shaft from the pointed set screw makes it impossible to remove.

Not true. Just have to get the hammer out. Haha. I’ve used them in most of my older games. With those, once you rebuild you won’t have to touch them again.

#2320 1 year ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

Thanks! I'll give that a try! Last game I had with that flipper bat style, I replaced the flipper shaft clamp with a modern part. That worked pretty good too.

Yeah this is a good idea too.

#2321 1 year ago

Question guys..

My main left and right flippers on my JJP POTC:

The right flipper is absolutely "perfect." Like, it's hard to put into words, but the resistance and the spring back is I think everything and more that you would want in a flipper.

The left flipper is not. Yea, it's tight. Yea, it doesn't matter because it's not slipping between games and all this. I get all that...BUT I still want to know "why" it's not as amazing as the right flipper...

I can't really figure it out. I don't know if it's the spring. I don't know if it's the way that flipper is sitting in the flipper bushing or what.

It's just interesting...to me.

Thanks!

#2322 1 year ago

Guys,

Question.

The coil rod (that's what I'm calling it. The thing that feeds into the coil) is coming up slower on one flipper than the other. They both pretty much have the same clearance so it's not binding, but it kinda bothers me.

Has anyone seen this happen before?

#2323 1 year ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

Guys,
Question.
The coil rod (that's what I'm calling it. The thing that feeds into the coil) is coming up slower on one flipper than the other. They both pretty much have the same clearance so it's not binding, but it kinda bothers me.
Has anyone seen this happen before?

Yep. Something is causing it to bind. Dirty coil sleeve, mushroomed plunger (coil rod), flipper bat not gapped properly and is too tight to the flipper bushing. Could be any of those. Or something else. Haha

1 week later
#2324 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Or something else. Haha

Different return springs?

#2325 1 year ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

Different return springs?

Unless the return springs break off, they are usually okay. Especially on a brand new game.

#2326 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Yep. Something is causing it to bind. Dirty coil sleeve, mushroomed plunger (coil rod), flipper bat not gapped properly and is too tight to the flipper bushing. Could be any of those. Or something else. Haha

This video better highlights what I'm trying to explain.

The right flipper - perfect
The left flipper - not perfect

I'ts not necessarily as drastic as I thought it was initially and it might be the OCD in me, but I appreciate any expert advise all the same...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kY_9NglIM5gbAlhIjVk3T9YX-7B1DqFjfROYp5idDvrZc17XlVRZEF51Z7QgEy6BgdQAws2g5Kp-rQ=m18

#2327 1 year ago

Coil sleeve, coil stop, coil not sitting straight, plunger mushroomed. Take off the coil stop, make sure it’s not mushroomed or broken, replace coil sleeve. Inspect the plunger to see if it’s mushroomed. The first couple pages of this guide covers all this. Good luck.

#2328 1 year ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

This video better highlights what I'm trying to explain.
The right flipper - perfect
The left flipper - not perfect
I'ts not necessarily as drastic as I thought it was initially and it might be the OCD in me, but I appreciate any expert advise all the same...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kY_9NglIM5gbAlhIjVk3T9YX-7B1DqFjfROYp5idDvrZc17XlVRZEF51Z7QgEy6BgdQAws2g5Kp-rQ=m18

I actually just had an issue rebuilding the flippers on my Spectrum. Everything brand new down to the brackets. Left flipper perfect, right flipper was binding on something. Loosened up screws, it would work great. Narrowed it down to the coil bracket in the middle. I had to put a washer inbetween the bracket and base to space it up so that it would make the entire flipper nice and free. I would loosen your brackets just a touch and see if it stops binding.

#2329 1 year ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

I actually just had an issue rebuilding the flippers on my Spectrum. Everything brand new down to the brackets. Left flipper perfect, right flipper was binding on something. Loosened up screws, it would work great. Narrowed it down to the coil bracket in the middle. I had to put a washer inbetween the bracket and base to space it up so that it would make the entire flipper nice and free. I would loosen your brackets just a touch and see if it stops binding.

The coil should be exactly parallel to the flipper base plate when assembled.

The coil should be firmly mounted between the bracket and coil stop, with no lateral movement at all.

If the coil is loose after assembly, bend the coil stop slightly until it holds the coil firmly with zero gap between the stop and coil.

Loose coils rob the plunger of power.

#2330 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

The coil should be exactly parallel to the flipper base plate when assembled.
The coil should be firmly mounted between the bracket and coil stop, with no lateral movement at all.
If the coil is loose after assembly, bend the coil stop slightly until it holds the coil firmly with zero gap between the stop and coil.
Loose coils rob the plunger from power.

Correct, mine didn't have movement, but the center bracket was pulling the plunger down, causing it to bind inside the coil sleeve. Once spaced up, it was smooth as butter.

#2331 1 year ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

Correct, mine didn't have movement, but the center bracket was pulling the plunger down, causing it to bind inside the coil sleeve. Once spaced up, it was smooth as butter.

Sounds like your crank is too low on the flipper

#2332 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Sounds like your crank is too low on the flipper

That is a possibility, was scrambling to get it all back together for the party.

#2333 1 year ago

Thanks guys!

I’ll keep working on it!

#2334 1 year ago

I will add that it's NOT mushrooming. I mean, I'm 99.9% sure it isn't. It's brand new!

#2335 1 year ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

I will add that it's NOT mushrooming. I mean, I'm 99.9% sure it isn't. It's brand new!

You’d be surprised. I’ve had to rebuild stern flippers with less than 500 plays. You’re binding for sure. Just needs a slight adjustment and you’ll be set.

#2336 1 year ago

Yea and in fairness I actually rebuilt this flipper myself so I 100% blame myself for it not being correct.

First pin, first flipper rebuild...

I'm trying to get there!

#2337 1 year ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

Yea and in fairness I actually rebuilt this flipper myself so I 100% blame myself for it not being correct.
First pin, first flipper rebuild...
I'm trying to get there!

Yep. It’s easy to replace all the parts, just needs a bit more tweaking and you’ll have it. Play around with the crank that tightens to the shaft too. If that’s up too far or down too low on the flipper shaft it will cause binding too.

#2338 1 year ago

I’m definitely not arguing because I don’t know enough to know what I would be arguing about...

The flippers “seem” to have the same clearance, but it definitely feels like it’s binding.

My first step was to basically remove the flipper bat entirely and see if the binding continues. If it does not, then I guess the flipper WAS binding..

#2339 1 year ago
Quoted from joseph5185:

I’m definitely not arguing because I don’t know enough to know what I would be arguing about...
The flippers “seem” to have the same clearance, but it definitely feels like it’s binding.
My first step was to basically remove the flipper bat entirely and see if the binding continues. If it does not, then I guess the flipper WAS binding..

If that’s not it, the way the could stop is positioned it could be pulling the coil ever so slightly to one side causing the binding too.

#2340 1 year ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

If that’s not it, the way the could stop is positioned it could be pulling the coil ever so slightly to one side causing the binding too.

Yea. Thanks so much man.

I'm definitely trying to address this tonight when I get a good opportunity and I'll report back.

#2341 1 year ago

For the record,

Here's a pic comparing the flipper on the left and the right.

I'll try to not flood this thread. I find pinsiders aren't a fan of this, but working on it now and removing the flipper bat.

My game is PLAYABLE once I get this sorted! =)

pasted_image (resized).png
#2342 1 year ago

I"m so FLIPPIN' happy!!!

I honestly for the life of me can't tell you "exactly" what it was.

I loosened the flipper pawl and immediately noticed it wasn't binding at all. So no need to take out the flipper bat entirely. I simply I guess realigned the flipper, tightened back down, and viola!!

It's like flipper porn!!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EY2Io4hnHJ-PqjEH7SneGqT6JqQSGC1C33uy4JDA-Nh1r4dnwUWM8FN15JgeuHLcDN3Xfh365VfTmQ=m18

#2344 1 year ago

Thanks.

I guess it’s just really that temperamental.

I feel like I have gone full circle at this point so I feel pretty good the next time this happens - which hopefully isn’t for a long time.

3 months later
#2345 11 months ago

Hey Vid,
Just wanted to say thanks for this ongoing guide. I have enjoyed and learned so much from reading all 47 pages!
I just upgraded my Black Knight flippers ordering the complete unit from Pinball Resource. Easy install and it definately helps to adjust switch and attach EOS wires while on my bench. For those interested in upgrading their Black Knight flippers, here is an additional link that shows how to do this: http://www.siegecraft.us/blackknight6.htm

Again...thanks VID and all those who post here. Haven't seen a post from VID1900 in awhile, so hopefully he is doing well!
Bryan

2 weeks later
#2346 10 months ago

I’m at a loss here. I’ve got a sorcerer where I upgraded the standard mechs to WPC. The right flipper worked before making the swap. After swap, left flippers are good. I initially wired the right flipper wrong and it blew the flipper power supply fuse when u pressed the flipper button a bunch. Replaced the fuse, thought I had it fixed, but still no right flipper. Lights dim when I press the flipper button so I assume it would blow the fuse again if I held the right flipper button in. See attached for the pics of my wiring:

Green highlight goes to the EOS and cabinet switch

Yellow highlight goes to the EOS

Red highlight goes to the flipper power supply board.

I have voltage at the coil. Diode is testing okay. Gives me the same reading as the other flippers.

428B72FB-0B49-4AD5-99C5-20BA8CAEEAFE (resized).jpegB1B9BAA1-96EE-4446-A146-2B6210F62D03 (resized).jpegE7026B47-F961-435C-BF5E-99A6AC3F55E0 (resized).jpegB2A06B20-4502-42B2-B5A5-5AA8647C0D21 (resized).jpeg
#2347 10 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I’m at a loss here. I’ve got a sorcerer where I upgraded the standard mechs to WPC. The right flipper worked before making the swap. After swap, left flippers are good. I initially wired the right flipper wrong and it blew the flipper power supply fuse when u pressed the flipper button a bunch. Replaced the fuse, thought I had it fixed, but still no right flipper. Lights dim when I press the flipper button so I assume it would blow the fuse again if I held the right flipper button in. See attached for the pics of my wiring:
Green highlight goes to the EOS and cabinet switch
Yellow highlight goes to the EOS
Red highlight goes to the flipper power supply board.
I have voltage at the coil. Diode is testing okay. Gives me the same reading as the other flippers.[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Did you check the flipper button switch? Wire to the switch?

If you have voltage at the coil and it doesn't switch on, or the switch does nothing, then it's a switching issue I think.

The game doesnt know that you pushed the switch.

a chip/transistor, driver board issue maybe.

#2348 10 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Did you check the flipper button switch? Wire to the switch?
If you have voltage at the coil and it doesn't switch on, or the switch does nothing, then it's a switching issue I think.
The game doesnt know that you pushed the switch.
a chip/transistor, driver board issue maybe.

I’m thinking the latter. Cab Switch has power.

#2349 10 months ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I’m thinking the latter. Cab Switch has power.

Yep, start checking the flipper switch path.

#2350 10 months ago

Turned out to be a bad diode on the coil.

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