VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

6 years ago



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  • 2,284 posts
  • 385 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 hours ago by chuckwurt
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There are 2284 posts in this topic. You are on page 46 of 46.
#2251 22 days ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Does it matter which eos wire goes to which lug as long as you have one wire going to the center lug and one to the power return lug?

Neither the EOS Switch, nor the Switch Capacitor (if used) have any polarity

#2252 22 days ago
Quoted from epeabs:

If I remove the wrappers from Flipper coils, or any coils for that matter, can I soak them in a cleaner?

Sure.

You can even put them in the Ultrasonic if they are crazy dirty.

I put the whole wiring harness, coils and all in the dishwasher.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-playfield-harnesses-vids-guide

#2253 22 days ago

Thanks Vid. That was my thought.

2 weeks later
#2254 8 days ago

What is the recommended gap between the bottom of the flipper bat and the playfield surface? Not sure if this is different from manufacturer to manufacturer, but I'm looking specifically at late Bally EMs and early SS Bally machines. I am planning to rebuild flipper mechs and replace flipper bats in this process. I would like to know what is correct as I reassemble.

Thanks

#2255 8 days ago
Quoted from Skidave:

What is the recommended gap between the bottom of the flipper bat and the playfield surface? Not sure if this is different from manufacturer to manufacturer, but I'm looking specifically at late Bally EMs and early SS Bally machines. I am planning to rebuild flipper mechs and replace flipper bats in this process. I would like to know what is correct as I reassemble.
Thanks

For a quick estimate, it is usually the thickness of a credit card or gift card.

#2256 8 days ago

Measure the gap between the bottom of the bat and the top of the nylon bushing. The bushing should protrude a bit above the playfield. After some experience you’ll be able to do it by feel, grabbing the bat to check for that up-down wiggle room. Not too much, not too little.

#2257 8 days ago
Quoted from Skidave:

What is the recommended gap between the bottom of the flipper bat and the playfield surface? Not sure if this is different from manufacturer to manufacturer, but I'm looking specifically at late Bally EMs and early SS Bally machines. I am planning to rebuild flipper mechs and replace flipper bats in this process. I would like to know what is correct as I reassemble.
Thanks

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers#post-284682

#2258 8 days ago

Thank you all for the reply and link.

#2259 8 days ago

The problem I face is that even with new parts, there is up down movement of the shaft inside the coil sleeve. When I do that method, and pull the spacer out..gravity pulls the flipper bat back flush with the bushing again.
These mechanisms are too sloppy for that kind of precision. Just adjust it so it doesnt bind and doesnt touch the playfield.

#2260 8 days ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

The problem I face is that even with new parts, there is up down movement of the shaft inside the coil sleeve. When I do that method, and pull the spacer out..gravity pulls the flipper bat back flush with the bushing again.
These mechanisms are too sloppy for that kind of precision. Just adjust it so it doesnt bind and doesnt touch the playfield.

When the flipper is energized, the flipper should rise up a bit. I always put my spacer below the bushing, between that and the crank, since that's how it'll sit anyway

#2261 7 days ago

Any problem with using a Williams bat in the place of a Gottleib (sys 3 with the heavy metal "shoe")??

The replacement Gottleibs are expensive and the Williams bats seem to be the exact same size of shaft.

Thanks!

#2262 5 days ago

So, in reference to posts I made earlier vis-a-vis the upper flipper coil heating up, my wife played an extended session a couple of days ago and the game played fine, but that coil was hot.

I'm wondering why that coil gets so hot, but no other coil on the game does so. While I need to verify this, I am almost certain that my upper flipper on Fireball II does not get hot like that.

Maybe I should re-work the wiring. Any thoughts?

I am in the process of finishing a brush-on clear of my Fireball II machine, and also trying to get a monitor issue with my Donkey Kong game resolved, so D&D is somewhat on the back-burner at the moment, but I am curious as to why that upper flipper coil gets so hot.

#2263 5 days ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

So, in reference to posts I made earlier vis-a-vis the upper flipper coil heating up, my wife played an extended session a couple of days ago and the game played fine, but that coil was hot.
I'm wondering why that coil gets so hot, but no other coil on the game does so. While I need to verify this, I am almost certain that my upper flipper on Fireball II does not get hot like that.
Maybe I should re-work the wiring. Any thoughts?
I am in the process of finishing a brush-on clear of my Fireball II machine, and also trying to get a monitor issue with my Donkey Kong game resolved, so D&D is somewhat on the back-burner at the moment, but I am curious as to why that upper flipper coil gets so hot.

I would make 100% sure the EOS it opening. Lift the playfield and energize the flipper with the flipper button (don't just push the pawl with your finger) and watch the EOS open. Make sure you can visibly see a gap in the EOS when held.

If it is opening, I would turn my focus to the coil. Make sure you have the power coil and hold coil measure a correct resistance and are wired up properly with the EOS.

#2264 4 days ago
Quoted from Schwaggs:

I would make 100% sure the EOS it opening. Lift the playfield and energize the flipper with the flipper button (don't just push the pawl with your finger) and watch the EOS open. Make sure you can visibly see a gap in the EOS when held.
If it is opening, I would turn my focus to the coil. Make sure you have the power coil and hold coil measure a correct resistance and are wired up properly with the EOS.

Thanks, and it is opening. I put a new coil and a new switch in, about the time I made my first post on this issue in this thread. In fact, it was another user who noted from my pictures that that switch should be closed. Imagine my shame LOL.

Prior to that, the old EOS was gapped ridiculously open all of the time.

I didn't set it that way, but I copied it with the new switch. Then I corrected that issue, setting it to normal which is closed when idle. Like I said, imagine my shame and I did it publicly LOLOL

Chasing "ghosts" I am learning, is half the fun with these things

#2265 4 days ago

Are you sure your EOS wires are connected to the correct lugs on the upper flipper? Compare the pics of your right and upper right flippers in post 2248. The EOS wires are not arranged the same.

In your lower right & left flippers, EOS is connected to center lug and the grey wire - the ground side.
In the upper right, EOS is connected to center and brown wire - the power side.

You asked about the arrangement post 2238, but did not switch your wires to account for your coil being constructed differently (flipped) than in vids pic.

#2266 3 days ago

I'm confused. Seriously, I am really confused. Something is not correct, but I'm not seeing it, even if it is staring right at me plain as day to others.

I modeled the wiring for the upper flipper off of the lower flipper NC switch, not the NO side of the switch. I can get that upper flipper to fire, with only the 43v and ground hooked up to the proper lugs. With no other wires connected to the middle/EOS lug or the switch leafs, that flipper will fire.

The only time I can not get the flipper to fire is if I model the upper flipper wiring to match the lower NO switch, which makes sense because it is, in effect, "shorting to ground", correct?

The picture enclosed, is not how the wiring is configured now. I tried this configuration, flipper will fire but the coil still gets hot.

Maybe it's normal, but it's awfully damn hot and I don't know how that is going to ensure a long coil life.

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#2267 3 days ago

The upper and lower should look the same. They are not.

Move the outside EOS wire to the other outside lug. Leave the power and ground where they are.

#2268 3 days ago

Did that, the flipper won't fire unless I disconnect the wire from the middle-lug or open up the contacts on the switch.

eta

thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. More than I can express.

for the time being I de-soldered the wire from the middle lug and the inner switch leaf, and will monitor it.

#2269 2 days ago

Junk Yard Flipper Question:

I encountered a problem where every time I hit the flipper button, the flipper would stop in a different position. It would go up slightly with each hit and stay there until it eventually it was stuck all the way up. So, I tried my first flipper rebuild today...bought a kit and swapped out the stuff in there (crank assembly, coil sleeve, EOS switch, spring) and it's doing the same thing. It does the same "stop in a different position," but now it even moves backwards (towards the player) and stops. Anyone ever encountered this?

I've tightened the bolt on the crank shaft to the point where I don't think the problem is that the flipper bat shaft is turning. There is some play for the flipper to move up and down. (Though I ballparked that based on the other flipper because I don't have a gauge.) How are flipper bats supposed to be attached to the shaft? I did have to push the bat back onto the shaft after I removed the flipper. Could the flipper itself be spinning while the shaft is not? Again, this is my first flipper rebuild, so I'm not super familiar with everything just yet.

Thanks!

#2270 1 day ago
Quoted from PBaller22:

Junk Yard Flipper Question:
I encountered a problem where every time I hit the flipper button, the flipper would stop in a different position. It would go up slightly with each hit and stay there until it eventually it was stuck all the way up. So, I tried my first flipper rebuild today...bought a kit and swapped out the stuff in there (crank assembly, coil sleeve, EOS switch, spring) and it's doing the same thing. It does the same "stop in a different position," but now it even moves backwards (towards the player) and stops. Anyone ever encountered this?
I've tightened the bolt on the crank shaft to the point where I don't think the problem is that the flipper bat shaft is turning. There is some play for the flipper to move up and down. (Though I ballparked that based on the other flipper because I don't have a gauge.) How are flipper bats supposed to be attached to the shaft? I did have to push the bat back onto the shaft after I removed the flipper. Could the flipper itself be spinning while the shaft is not? Again, this is my first flipper rebuild, so I'm not super familiar with everything just yet.
Thanks!

I had a MB that did that. Turned out to be a broken flipper bat. The plastic head on the underside allowed the shaft to spin a bit. I too cranked down on the shaft to no avail, replaced the bat with another, and that solved my problem.

#2271 1 day ago
Quoted from PBaller22:

Junk Yard Flipper Question:
I encountered a problem where every time I hit the flipper button, the flipper would stop in a different position. It would go up slightly with each hit and stay there until it eventually it was stuck all the way up. So, I tried my first flipper rebuild today...bought a kit and swapped out the stuff in there (crank assembly, coil sleeve, EOS switch, spring) and it's doing the same thing. It does the same "stop in a different position," but now it even moves backwards (towards the player) and stops. Anyone ever encountered this?
I've tightened the bolt on the crank shaft to the point where I don't think the problem is that the flipper bat shaft is turning. There is some play for the flipper to move up and down. (Though I ballparked that based on the other flipper because I don't have a gauge.) How are flipper bats supposed to be attached to the shaft? I did have to push the bat back onto the shaft after I removed the flipper. Could the flipper itself be spinning while the shaft is not? Again, this is my first flipper rebuild, so I'm not super familiar with everything just yet.
Thanks!

Just see if you can move the flipper bat with your hands and watch the shaft in the mech at the same time. If the head is moving and not the shaft, that’s your issue. Replace the flipper bat and shaft. If the shaft moves too, you don’t have the pawl tightened on the shaft enough.

#2272 1 day ago

Hello, I am flipping through (pun slightly intended) this amazing thread trying to see if my question is already answered but so far havent had any luck.

Basically I bought a brand new flipper assembly from pinball life and the crank shaft seems to just barely make contact with the EOS switch. I have seen the term "adjust the eos" come up and I want to make sure whats the best technique in having the leaves closer to the crank shaft (I dont want to make a noobie mistake and have to buy a new switch). Should I gently use a plier and move the leaves closer while not bending them?

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#2273 1 day ago

Just push the switch blades closer to the actuator so it opens up the eos at the end of the flipper stroke.

#2274 1 day ago

On my Mata Hari I was testing a new EOS switch with a jumper and blew a 5 amp fuse on the rectifier board. Oops! I still can’t figure out why my left flipper is still a little weaker than the right one.

#2275 1 day ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

On my Mata Hari I was testing a new EOS switch with a jumper and blew a 5 amp fuse on the rectifier board. Oops! I still can’t figure out why my left flipper is still a little weaker than the right one.

Correct coil? Take a picture and post here what the eos switch looks like when the flipper is engaged.

#2276 1 day ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Correct coil? Take a picture and post here what the eos switch looks like when the flipper is engaged.

Thanks. I’ll post one tonight when I get home.

#2277 1 day ago
Quoted from PBaller22:

Junk Yard Flipper Question:
I encountered a problem where every time I hit the flipper button, the flipper would stop in a different position. It would go up slightly with each hit and stay there until it eventually it was stuck all the way up. So, I tried my first flipper rebuild today...bought a kit and swapped out the stuff in there (crank assembly, coil sleeve, EOS switch, spring) and it's doing the same thing. It does the same "stop in a different position," but now it even moves backwards (towards the player) and stops. Anyone ever encountered this?
I've tightened the bolt on the crank shaft to the point where I don't think the problem is that the flipper bat shaft is turning. There is some play for the flipper to move up and down. (Though I ballparked that based on the other flipper because I don't have a gauge.) How are flipper bats supposed to be attached to the shaft? I did have to push the bat back onto the shaft after I removed the flipper. Could the flipper itself be spinning while the shaft is not? Again, this is my first flipper rebuild, so I'm not super familiar with everything just yet.
Thanks!

I have had that happen, the way I fixed it was to just keep adjusting on the set screws until it stopped doing it. Sometimes I had to tighten one down, and back off the other. This is with brand new flipper rebuilds and older flippers. What I did - apologies if you have already tried this - is loosen both set screws until the flipper would easily move by rotating it with your hand. Then adjust down from there, til the flipper stayed in it's idle position after activation.

Hope that makes sense

#2278 1 day ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Correct coil? Take a picture and post here what the eos switch looks like when the flipper is engaged.

Here’s the pictures. First is the weaker one. Just for the heck of it I measured resistance across the switches while in circuit. Around .4 ohms on the stronger one, 1.4 ohms on the weaker one. Coils are Bally originals and are both the same.

CD8ECE3A-0E62-4D83-9E25-67362785AB0E (resized).jpegB8C280C4-F608-43EB-A15B-A34E04C12F7D (resized).jpeg
#2279 1 day ago

Looks properly adjusted to me. Not sure why you had a fuse blow when you jumpered the eos. My only other suggestion is making sure the eos is getting consistent continuity. After that I’m out of ideas. Haha

#2280 1 day ago
Quoted from phillyfan64:

Just for the heck of it I measured resistance across the switches while in circuit. Around .4 ohms on the stronger one, 1.4 ohms on the weaker one

Desolder one lug of the switches and measure again

#2281 1 day ago

Thanks. It might be a few days before I can unsolder it. I’ll report back. As for the fuse, I think the alligator clip might have touched something metal other than the lugs. It’s not a big difference but I think there is a slight difference in power.

#2282 16 hours ago

My overheating coil problem is resolved. It ended up being one or both of the diodes on the coil. That was a new coil, too.

There were two 4004's on the coil, I replaced them with 4007's. Additionally, I had to rewire that coil, moving the outer leaf wire to the power lug. The ground is now soldered to the same lug by itself, with the middle lug connected to the inner leaf.

Also, something I did not mention before, was that upon activation with the original diodes, no matter how I had it wired, when the flipper fired it did not give what I like to term as the lightning blast seen with flipper activation. It now does that.

Once again, thanks to all who tried to help me resolve this issue.

#2283 6 hours ago
Quoted from jlbintn:

I have had that happen, the way I fixed it was to just keep adjusting on the set screws until it stopped doing it. Sometimes I had to tighten one down, and back off the other. This is with brand new flipper rebuilds and older flippers. What I did - apologies if you have already tried this - is loosen both set screws until the flipper would easily move by rotating it with your hand. Then adjust down from there, til the flipper stayed in it's idle position after activation.
Hope that makes sense

Sort of...what do you mean by set screws? The bolt on the plunger and crank assembly?

#2284 6 hours ago
Quoted from PBaller22:

Sort of...what do you mean by set screws? The bolt on the plunger and crank assembly?

Junkyard doesn’t have set screws. Don’t worry about it. Those are only in older flipper mechs. Yours just hase a bolt or nut that tightens the crank/pawl.

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