(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

7 years ago



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#1801 2 years ago

Question about what to buy.

Was playing a game on my Big Deal (1977) when the right flipper just went to mush. I noticed that a little bit of the tip of the flipper bat had broken off as well. Took the bat out and huh. Not sure it could break in more ways at once.
busted (resized).jpg

I was just going to buy a new bat, but read your post that mentioned not to put a new style flipper shaft into an older pawl since it wouldn't come back out due to the lack of a keyway. Checked a few places, but wasn't finding the older style online.

Prior to my picking it up and getting it running a few months ago, the machine had sat unused for who knows how long, so I'm thinking I should just rebuild the flippers and be done with it.

If I get a couple of these kits
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=1159

As well as two new bats/shafts:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=915

Will I have to worry about not being able to ever remove them if needed? I would assume that the rebuild kits include the older style pawl - sure looks like it in the photo.

#1802 2 years ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

but read your post that mentioned not to put a new style flipper shaft into an older pawl since it wouldn't come back out due to the lack of a keyway

Can you link to this? Curious

#1804 2 years ago

Don't own a Dremel, and wouldn't trust myself to get it right.

Gonna look some more for a source on the old style shafts.

#1806 2 years ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Don't own a Dremel, and wouldn't trust myself to get it right.

You could put a new flipper shaft into the game, **just slightly** tighten down the set screws to leave a mark, then use a file to flatten a slot where the 2 marks were made.

Now when the metal rises up around the set screw, the metal wont rise above the slot.

#1807 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You could put a new flipper shaft into the game, **just slightly** tighten down the set screws to leave a mark, then use a file to flatten a slot where the 2 marks were made.
Now when the metal rises up around the set screw, the metal wont rise above the slot.

Seems a bit easier and cheaper to try. Thinks for the suggestion.

Odd/Annoying that they're not readily available. Surely there's a need out there.

#1808 2 years ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Seems a bit easier and cheaper to try. Thinks for the suggestion.
Odd/Annoying that they're not readily available. Surely there's a need out there.

They were still available until about 4 years ago.

Nobody has actually made them in 45 years, so it's understandable that the supply would one day run out.

1 week later
#1809 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

UPDATING OLD SS FLIPPERS:
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Ok, so you've got an old game like Disco Fever and you want to update to the modern style flipper mechs. This will REALLY tighten up the feel of the game and eliminate that 'bounce back' feel.
First label your wires so you know where your 28v and ground is.

Just an FYI. I bought these to upgrade my 1978 Williams World Cup flippers.

Won't work. There's no room. No matter how you spin them there's just to many lights and switches in the way.

#1810 2 years ago
Quoted from hailrazer:

Just an FYI. I bought these to upgrade my 1978 Williams World Cup flippers.
Won't work. There's no room. No matter how you spin them there's just to many lights and switches in the way.

Yeah, World Cup has that strange bottom layout.

But, you should be able to still do it.

Using Flexi LEDs and Laydown lamp sockets, you poke the LED under the flipper baseplate (put some tape on the back of the baseplate, so that it does not short out the LED.

You might have to move a few wires.

Spin the baseplate until you find the spot that requires the least amount of BS.

Post some clear pics of the underside if you need suggestions.

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#1811 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yeah, World Cup has that strange bottom layout.
But, you should be able to still do it.
Using Flexi LEDs and Laydown lamp sockets, you poke the LED under the flipper baseplate (put some tape on the back of the baseplate, so that it does not short out the LED.
You might have to move a few wires.
Spin the baseplate until you find the spot that requires the least amount of BS.
Post some clear pics of the underside if you need suggestions.

No it won't work. It's not just lights. There's also the switches and rollovers and kickers for the 2 holes next to the flippers. Believe me I tried everything including using parts from other machines. I stripped everything out and still wasn't even enough room for the 2 new flipper assemblies to go in. It just won't work.

#1812 2 years ago
Quoted from hailrazer:

No it won't work. It's not just lights. There's also the switches and rollovers and kickers for the 2 holes next to the flippers. Believe me I tried everything including using parts from other machines. I stripped everything out and still wasn't even enough room for the 2 new flipper assemblies to go in. It just won't work.

That sucks!

I wish I had access to one of those games to see if I could outsmart Tomaszewski (or however you spell him).

How 'bout raising the flipper mech and using a long shaft flipper, a la No Fear?

You will need a Nylon standoff to **extend** the existing flipper bushing.

If you have to hacksaw off a base leg, use the same size Nylon standoff to secure it by drilling straight through the baseplate.

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#1813 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That sucks!
I wish I had access to one of those games to see if I could outsmart Tomaszewski (or however you spell him).
How 'bout raising the flipper mech and using a long shaft flipper, a la No Fear?
You will need a Nylon standoff to **extend** the existing flipper bushing.
If you have to hacksaw off a base leg, use the same size Nylon standoff to secure it by drilling straight through the baseplate.

Yes that would work. A longer flipper shaft and one base leg off each one. And then one bendie light. I just wound up rebuilding the old ones and they are "good enough".

#1814 2 years ago

Does anyone know if game plan coils (21-50002) can be replaced with anything else? I'm gonna order the right one, but I have a few other coils I can fire in to get it up and running quickly if I can.

#1815 2 years ago

According to Clay's guide you can use Bally AQ-25-500:

http://www.pinrepair.com/gp/index.htm

#1816 2 years ago

Thank you sir!

#1817 2 years ago

In case anyone is curious, the 25-500 works great, but the diodes need to be reversed. Slightly more powerful, but much needed in my opinion. Would be a great upgrade in any of these games imho.

Cheers

1 week later
#1818 2 years ago

Hey guys. This is my first flipper rebuild. Flippers are weak and stick fairly often. If left flipper sticks in up position flipping right flipper helps it release and Visa versa. Bought two flipper rebuild kits but may need to do all three. After reading this guide I inspected closer and I think one of my coils is incorrect. Also one flippers has an extra leaf switch and possibly extra wiring? Please help haha.

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#1819 2 years ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

lippers are weak and stick fairly often. If left flipper sticks in up position flipping right flipper helps it release and Visa versa.

If there is one thing Linear flippers are good for, it's sticking.

Crappy design that wears out into slop, fast.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/11#post-1855100

#1820 2 years ago

Okay. Thanks. What about this spare switch/wires that I have one? I can toss the switch easy enough but what about the wires?

#1821 2 years ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

Okay. Thanks. What about this spare switch/wires that I have one? I can toss the switch easy enough but what about the wires?

What spare wires are we referring to?

Usually any **extra** wires or switches control other functions in the game.

#1822 2 years ago

This flipper has two switches instead of one. The rebuild kits I got only have one switch so I am guessing the extra switch is trash and the wires that run to it need to be dealt with. I could be completely wrong. I'm new to this.

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#1823 2 years ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

This flipper has two switches instead of one.

The second switch activates another flipper somewhere on the playfield.

Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

The rebuild kits I got only have one switch

That's normal, because every machine needs at least one EOS Switch.

YOUR machine needs a 2nd switch, that you have to buy separately (or clean up the existing one).

#1824 2 years ago

Okay. That makes more sense. Thanks so much Vid. Sorry I'm such a n00b.

#1825 2 years ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

Okay. That makes more sense. Thanks so much Vid. Sorry I'm such a n00b.

Better to ask questions than f up the game

#1826 2 years ago

Any tips on removing a Flipper shaft stuck in the Flipper crank? It's caught on the bottom part of the shoulder.

Also is bally 1980-1991 still SFL-23-600/30-2600, A-12111, and 03-7811 Normally closed EOS?

This is specifically for a Special Force, currently has 24-570/34-3600. And if i wanted to use parallel it'd be FL-11630.

Edit: nevermind on the removal

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#1827 2 years ago

One last question and then I'll F**k off. Should I replace that orange coil and find one that matches the yellow ones. It looks like shit work to me but maybe I should just leave it alone?

#1828 2 years ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

One last question and then I'll F**k off. Should I replace that orange coil and find one that matches the yellow ones. It looks like shit work to me but maybe I should just leave it alone?

Just print out 2 new coil wrappers so the coils match.

#1829 2 years ago
Quoted from SLCpunk2113:

One last question and then I'll F**k off. Should I replace that orange coil and find one that matches the yellow ones. It looks like shit work to me but maybe I should just leave it alone?

I'd clean up any crappy solder joints and replace any 1/2 assed diodes

#1830 2 years ago

Is there a trick to getting the spring put into the holes? I use needle nose pliers, but it's near impossible to not bend the ends and occasionally have the spring hanging precariously.

#1831 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Is there a trick to getting the spring put into the holes? I use needle nose pliers, but it's near impossible to not bend the ends and occasionally have the spring hanging precariously.

Hemostats are pretty handy for installing springs.

#1832 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Is there a trick to getting the spring put into the holes? I use needle nose pliers, but it's near impossible to not bend the ends and occasionally have the spring hanging precariously.

If it's got the kinda "doubled loop" ends:

Open the spring loop with an Xacto knife tip.

Slide the loop and the blade along until the open end of the loop clicks into the mounting hole .

Push forward then back to get the whole loop into the hole.

#1833 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Push forward then back to get the whole loop into the hole.

Sort of like a keychain?

#1834 2 years ago

Sorcerer rebuild. I cannot for the life of me get the paw to grip the bat tight enough. After two or three games the bat starts working it's way up off the alignment hole. I tightened that bolt on the pawl with a wrench crazy tight and it doesn't hold well. Any tips?

#1835 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Sorcerer rebuild. I cannot for the life of me get the paw to grip the bat tight enough. After two or three games the bat starts working it's way up off the alignment hole. I tightened that bolt on the pawl with a wrench crazy tight and it doesn't hold well. Any tips?

Get out your Dremel, or a thin file and remove some material.

You might have to open up the pawl with standard screwdriver, if it's totally crushed:

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#1836 2 years ago

Okay and what does the filing do exactly? Just trying to understand the theory behind it.

#1837 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay and what does the filing do exactly? Just trying to understand the theory behind it.

The assumption being you can't make it tighter because the two sides have already 'met', so if you file them back you can close it a bit further, gripping the shaft tighter.

#1838 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

The assumption being you can't make it tighter because the two sides have already 'met', so if you file them back you can close it a bit further, gripping the shaft tighter.

Oh that makes perfect sense. Thanks so much.

#1839 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

Okay and what does the filing do exactly? Just trying to understand the theory behind it.

Quoted from zacaj:

The assumption being you can't make it tighter because the two sides have already 'met', so if you file them back you can close it a bit further, gripping the shaft tighter.

Correct. From an engineering perspective, the pawl that grips the flipper shaft relies on elastic deformation, and that is only possible with a gap between the ends to allow the metal in the pawl to bend under force (i.e., the bolt is tightened). Once the force is released (i.e., the bolt is loosened), the metal returns to its original shape, allowing the shaft to be removed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deformation_(engineering)

1 month later
#1840 2 years ago

Here's a super newb question... When using a toothpick to line up the flippers, the toothpick is not tight in the hole so it moves around. When you push the flipper against the toothpick, it moves around as you tighten. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to line it up accurately?

I generally use the toothpicks as a guide, eyeball it, and then use a digital inclinometer to see that it's roughly in line with the ball guide, but there must be a better way!

#1841 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Here's a super newb question... When using a toothpick to line up the flippers, the toothpick is not tight in the hole so it moves around. When you push the flipper against the toothpick, it moves around as you tighten. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to line it up accurately?
I generally use the toothpicks as a guide, eyeball it, and then use a digital inclinometer to see that it's roughly in line with the ball guide, but there must be a better way!

Thicker toothpick?

#1842 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Thicker toothpick?

Hahaha yes I tried that too. But toothpick still seems to wobble around a little bit. Seems the whole is not deep enough to hold it firmly. Is it just my game perhaps? Do you guys find that the toothpick holds in well enough to apply pressure and it doesn't move?

#1843 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Hahaha yes I tried that too. But toothpick still seems to wobble around a little bit. Seems the whole is not deep enough to hold it firmly. Is it just my game perhaps? Do you guys find that the toothpick holds in well enough to apply pressure and it doesn't move?

Shouldn't it go all the way through?

#1844 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Hahaha yes I tried that too. But toothpick still seems to wobble around a little bit. Seems the whole is not deep enough to hold it firmly. Is it just my game perhaps? Do you guys find that the toothpick holds in well enough to apply pressure and it doesn't move?

I use a small drill bit into the hole then under the rubber, it holds pretty well for that type of setting.
But on a lot of games I just line up the flipper to the lane guide with a 6" metal ruler.
It really depends on game play as to how I set them.

#1845 2 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Shouldn't it go all the way through?

Doesn't seem to. I'll trying finding a drill bit that fits and see if that holds it in place better. But when you start tightening underneath, the flipper will move with each rotation. What do you guys do to keep it in place where you've set it?

#1846 2 years ago

Drill bit or small allen wrench is what most people use.

A toothpick is conical or wedge shaped.

#1847 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Doesn't seem to. I'll trying finding a drill bit that fits and see if that holds it in place better. But when you start tightening underneath, the flipper will move with each rotation. What do you guys do to keep it in place where you've set it?

I hold it in place by hand and tighten the pawl until there is some grip but I can still position the flipper bat.
At that time you an either "eye-ball" it, or use the hole in the playfield with a small drill bit under the rubber to get factory settings.

I tend to set the flippers above the hole in the playfield by 3/64" more or less to allow for better backhand shots on some games.

Check that the flipper is not riding on the bushing, it should have a little more than 1/32" of gap (thickness of a heavy business card)
Check that plunger is more or less straight coming out of the coil and not binding when its at rest.
With the return spring disconnected the flipper should have little or no resistance (other than the EOS switch pressure) at all and feel loose.

If the flipper is where you want it, tighten the flipper pawl until the bat is locked in place.
The flipper bat might move a tiny bit so just adjust it as you go. Its not an exact thing thats clamped down for assembly.
When done it should be very tight but dont break off the bolt. I use a 3/8" socket wrench for this.

If the flipper moves during a game, you didnt tighten it enough.

#1848 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I hold it in place by hand and tighten the pawl until there is some grip but I can still position the flipper bat.
At that time you an either "eye-ball" it, or use the hole in the playfield with a small drill bit under the rubber to get factory settings.
I tend to set the flippers above the hole in the playfield by 3/64" more or less to allow for better backhand shots on some games.
Check that the flipper is not riding on the bushing, it should have a little more than 1/32" of gap (thickness of a heavy business card)
Check that plunger is more or less straight coming out of the coil and not binding when its at rest.
With the return spring disconnected the flipper should have little or no resistance (other than the EOS switch pressure) at all and feel loose.
If the flipper is where you want it, tighten the flipper pawl until the bat is locked in place.
The flipper bat might move a tiny bit so just adjust it as you go. Its not an exact thing thats clamped down for assembly.
When done it should be very tight but dont break off the bolt. I use a 3/8" socket wrench for this.
If the flipper moves during a game, you didnt tighten it enough.

Sounds like what I do. Thanks for taking the time to write that all out

I use the spacer tool in between the flipper bat and bushing. But under the pf, there is usually a space between the pawl and the bushing as you tight it to the shaft. Do you push the pawl upward to close that gap?

#1849 2 years ago

Replaced the pawl, link and plunger on my GOT Pro right flipper. All was well until I noticed the flipper would get caught up sometimes. Brand new parts. I opened up the game and noticed that the pin that holds the plunger to the link was sliding through due to vibration and catching the flipper base plate when it would actuate. Weird.

So I hammered it back through, but 50-100 plays later it worked its what through again. I am trying to think of a way to mess with that pin to not let it slide through anymore. I thought about taking pliers or a wrench to bend it up so it cannot slide through, or try and bang it with a hammer to bend it in a way that wont let it slide through anymore.

Thoughts? Don't have time to order a new one.

#1850 2 years ago
Quoted from Damien:

Sounds like what I do. Thanks for taking the time to write that all out
I use the spacer tool in between the flipper bat and bushing. But under the pf, there is usually a space between the pawl and the bushing as you tight it to the shaft. Do you push the pawl upward to close that gap?

The pawl should end up more or less inline with the plunger.
The plunger and pawl assembly should follow a center line thru the coil.

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