so you only changed the flipper bats? or also mech
please can you post a picture what you changed

i like to change my JP flippers

I commented in the Gottlieb System 3 club.. too much secrecy there, does anyone have a system 3 Gottlieb 90's game? I just need to see what you have for a bumper pad for your flipper mech.

I changed the entire mechs (and replaced the bats, as they were both cracked on the ends) but kept the OE coils (since they're single-winding with the driver doing the current-limiting while all of the Williams/Bally ones are double-wound.)

I had to make one small modification to the WMS baseplates in trimming off one of the mounting holes with a dremel on each side of the plate as the plates interfered (slightly) with the rollover lane switch channels and one feature light. Otherwise it was an easy retrofit and IMHO it has made a very-material difference in gameplay -- the "correct" Sega coilstops result in a very long throw for the flipper which you'd *think* would make play easier by making cradles trivial, but it doesn't work out that way in practice. In practice what happens is that near-SDTM saves become maddeningly difficult bordering on impossible because the "up" angle of the flipper is so great that you wind up tipping the ball *behind* the second flipper instead of successfully saving it. With the WMS/Bally mechs in there you still have excellent cradling/catch capability and yet that (very annoying!) characteristic of the Sega mechs when it comes to near-SDTM saves is gone.

I kept the old baseplates in case I ever sell the game and someone wants them but there's no way I'll ever put them back in as long as it's in my collection, and this is a game that's unlikely to leave. It's one of the toughest pins I've ever played in terms of being able to consistently score on it, and since I like challenges.....

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>>does anyone have a system 3 Gottlieb 90's game? I just need to see what you have for a bumper pad for your flipper mech.

I used the tiny rubber feet that were unused from a new modem, or you can peel an old one off a used one.

I hacked the tabs of some other design to get them to fit in the hole. Flippers are very nice now without the huge catching angle.

i awnsered there,
but
mine hasnt got grommets and previous owner said , never had them
but there holes in the mech, so i think its up 2 u if you want it?

I saw that thank you Forceflow very much. Pic below is what was there and it didn't feel right because the flipper travel obviously was compromised AND from a mechanical point of view lends itself to changing conditions over time.

Thank you guys for your excellent input as always

Spencer

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In the other thread, and according to PBResource, there are no bumpers or grommets in the flipper assembly.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-system-3-fan-club-haters-need-not-apply/page/5#post-3354707

But when you add bumpers (like I did on my SMB) you get a full travel that is a lot like games from other companies. Makes for a better game IMO.

I want to put the new Fliptronic style springs into my Taxi, but I'm not able to find anyone with a drill press to put a hole in the capacitor bracket. Could I buy something like this for each side? Would the screw holes line up?

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=catalog&mode=search&search_in=all&search_str=Williams%2FBally+Flipper+Base+Sub+Assembly

They should, worked for my firepower. Uses the same screw holes.

Those plates will work fine, but if you center punch it beforehand you should be able to drill without a press.

I don't have a punch tool, so I'd need to buy one. How exact do the measurements need to be? I'd hate for the spring to be too slack or tight because I screwed something up.

Could a flipper rebuild help with tap passing ability on old SS machines? Or is this more a matter of adjusting switch gaps?

I would think adjusting the cabinet switches would be your best bet.

I did my Big Guns conversion by hand with a good hand drill and fresh bit. It's doable.

At the beginning of the post (four years ago!), Vid says that "some coils were installed backwards at the factory". By that, he seems to mean that the diode-side-against-the-coil-stop configuration is wrong. His advice is to flip the coils and sleeve 180 degrees, and to cut off the little plastic nipple that's on the diode side if it's causing problems.

But that nipple goes right into the little groove on the coil stop. And all the manuals I've seen show that to be the correct configuration.

Now, I'm not doubting Vid. It makes sense that you'd want as little vibration as possible on the diode side, so you should flip the thing around. But is Vid suggesting that every pinball machine ever manufactured Did It Wrong when it came to designing and implementing how these coils were to be installed? Is that what he means by "backwards"?

Yep. It's not wrong, just less chance of having vibration cause issues if the coil is flipped around like vid suggests.

My 1980 Bally Skateball developed a problem a while back. when one holds the flipper switch the upper playfield flipper coil machine guns. I figured that it was one of the windings on the coil, specifically the hold winding. sure enough the hold winding was broken so I resoldered it. It broke again first time I tested it, I resoldered again and watching more carefully actually saw the winding melt in two at the connection.

Why is this happening and how do I solve this?

I had soldered it fairly taught, I noticed a wrap of tape around the terminal bracket holding those coil wires, does that help with maintaining the loop? I did scrape the lacquer

My latest attempt to resolder the coil seems to be working for now but I noticed the coil winding burning the coil wrapper just a bit. It doesn't seem right.

I don't have the System 11 flipper board in hand, wondering if you can replace the factory 100uf axial cap with a radial cap instead? I know the power board allows for either/or. Hoping the flipper board allows the same choice.

I was finally able to get back around to this. I have no voltage at the cabinet switch, so I tested J2 pins 1 and 2 on the SDB. Pin 1 reads 45v and pin 2 is under 1 volt so I'm guessing I blew something on the board. Which area should I look at next?

Upgrading my Sys4 to modern day mechs and it seems to be far more involved than I expected...

I made my spacers out of the old bushings and placed them under the new mounting plate. Great idea! However, I had to drill out the holes on the mounting plate from PBL in order to get the fin screws to fit through them. Now my EOS switch holes are much lower than they need to be on the mounting plate, and I feel like I'll need to drill two fresh holes to mount the EOS switch high enough to come into contact with the pawl.

Even after I get that done, it still looks like the pawl is going catch on the top of the fin screws if not PERFECTLY placed and tightened down on the flipper shaft.

@Vid1900, Did I miss something or overcomplicate this? I really hated to just remove/cut off the original fin screws. However, now I am thinking that route would have been MUCH easier. I had a bad experience removing a pop bumber nail once and have been gun shy with removing hardware like that unless I must ever since.

Thanks for your help and keeping me on the straight and narrow!

Having issues with my flippers on Tommy. Randomly during game play if I hold one flipper side up the other flipper side won't activate. This happens a lot during multiball, etc. or after rapidly activating the flippers.

The EOS switches on the flipper assemblies don't seem to be registering in test mode when I raise the bats by hand. Also if I activate flippers, hold and whack the flipper bat with my hand, it will drop. According to the manual this means the EOS switches aren't working.

Is is possible to wire an EOS switch backwards (brown and blue wire below)? These were rebuilt before I bought the game. I plan on swapping my SSFB board into my buddies GNR tonight to see if that is the problem. Board looks clean. Scratching my head on this one. Attached a pic. I plan on putting the proper screws into the EOS switches as they just zip tied them down.

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Here we go...

First image shows the basic setup...all purchased from PBL as outlined very early in the thread (all correct part numbers requested).

Second image shows (if you look closely) my old (and recycled) bushing which had the ends cut off (thank you, dremel), center drilled out, and was mounted under the base plate to keep it from being crushed upon re-installation of the lock nuts onto the threaded nails.

Third and fourth images reflect that the EOS switch mounting holes on the base plate are much too low for the switch to ever make contact with the pawl. Also, note that and that the tips of the threaded nails are going to catch on the pawl if not tightened to the flipper shaft with some kind of laser accuracy.

Question is, @vid1900, what is the recommended path from here? Clip the threaded nails? Remove them? Attempt to put it all together by drilling more holes to mount the EOS switch higher up and hope to get the pawl tightened to the shaft with enough precision to get adequate clearance to not catch the tips of the nails? Do I throw in the towel and just go back to the standard parts for that platform? I wanted to keep the game in a state that left it able to be reconfigured back to original specs as easy as possible and not risk damage to the playfield by removing the finned nails.

Personally, I hate the bouncy feel of System 3 & 4 flipper designs.

Did I over complicate this?

Thanks!

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Sigh...of course, AFTER previewing the photos in one sequence and authoring my post, Pinside reversed the order of photos when I officially submitted my content...but I think you'll get the gist.

No problem. I see the problem.

You need to swap the pawls left/right so that the tab with the black shrink-tube will operate the EOS switch.

Done.

Thanks Vid and @Balzofsteel... I figured out that EOS issue last night after seeing an earlier post of Vid's in which he attached an image. My pawls came mis-labeled in the packaging...

I am going to leave as is for the moment, with the fin nails in place and see if I can tighten down the bat shaft precisely enough to avoid any topside drap or fin nail snag. If not achievable, I will pull the fin nails... I just hate stressing the playfield when doing that.

Am I correct that the Sys 4 does NOT require installation of the EOS capacitors?

Hey Vid, I want to install the newer style return spring on my Pinbot flipper base plate but there is nowhere to attach it. The bracket is just big enough for the switches which are installed on both sides.

I may buy newer plates (I'd rather keep the one I have) but is there an alternative? Something that looks legit? Like adding a thin plate sandwiched between the switches where I'd attach the spring?

I'll try something with a thin sheet of aluminum and report back with picture if it works.

Aluminum might not wear very well. Try stainless like a piece cut out of an old ball guide.

Hey Vid. I'm having trouble keeping the flipper bats in position on my Kings of Steel. No matter how tight I think the screws in the lever assembly are, the bats seem to move after about 25 games or so. Any suggestions?

I have to the same mechs from kit KT-FLIP-04 installed currently. After reviewing this thread again, I guessing you'll recommend replacement? Maybe my question relates to the grip of the crank on the flipper bat. Are the two screw types featured in the Bally Linear flipper prone to bat movement?

That vintage does not require the EOS capacitor, but installing it does reduce the sparking considerably and extend the life of the EOS switch.

I just bought 4 of those last month to upgrade a Jungle Lord's flippers. The EOS switch bracket already came with holes drilled for the springs and tie wrap holes to secure a capacitor (if used). Also, if you order # 01-7695-1 flipper coil front bracket, it comes with the notch already in it so that you can turn the flipper coil away from the coil stop.

When upgrading old Bally Linear flippers to the non-linear older/better flippers, will I need to get a new base plate or will the one I currently have for my linear flippers work?

A problem plaguing those old Bally flipper pawls was the spot welds breaking or the press crimps working loose.

Agreed. So frustrating. I even had one pawl that I replaced with a new one and like 500 plays later the weld broke on that one. Urghh!!