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Williams, 1980
Indiana Jones: The Pinball Adventure
Williams, 1993You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider vid1900.
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Quoted from Pinball_Nate:Vid, is this true for ALL coils and sleeves (slingshots, pops, etc???). Thanks!!
It's not practical to flip every coil (it can bring the tabs too close to other moving parts, GI, brackets), but on flippers that get 1000s of actuations per game, it's easy.
Quoted from mof:Can you explain why we cannot use newer brackets / tech / solenoids in that particular 1979 game?
You can update it to current tech:
Quoted from pinworthy:There are two thin "wavy" washers that I can't find on the old assemblies (or in this thread). I am assuming they go between the coil and the bracket
Wavy washer goes between the coil bracket and the coil (not the Coil Stop).
Quoted from pinworthy:he kits came with the wrong flipper bushing (I got late model) but at the same time I had ordered bushings for a Gottlieb which seem to match what came out of the Aztec... are the bushings the same so can I use them pending the correct replacements?
I would never assume that anything on an old pin is the correct part, lol.
Ops would use any part, from any brand machine, to get the game back up and earning. So often you have these Frankenstein assemblies.
Look in the manual for what the correct part is supposed to look like, or post some clear, well lit, focused pictures.
You can also make a quick pass over some coarse sandpaper on the bottom of the bracket to keep it from slipping while tightening.
You can elongate the mounting holes on the bracket a millimeter with a rat tail file, if the holes are slightly off.
Quoted from mof:I've done 17 flipper upgrades on 80's machines, and I've never installed a "spring washer" -- is this recommended for all coils/titles, or just the ones that had them to start (in my case, maybe 1 game), or...?
-mof
Just on games that had them originally.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Does that mean that the flipper travel distance is slightly shorter on Fliptronic games?
Yes, it was an easy way to make the games earn more money.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:I've been a little frustrated at what seemed like slightly weak action in general, but particularly with regard to the long ramp-to-cup shot in back of the game.
Try jumpering the EOS switch closed, do you have enough power now?
Quoted from sethbenjamin:So I assume that means I need to place (yet another) order to get myself a fresh set of EOS switches?
You can try burnishing them completely clean, then make the gap only 1/16" when the EOS is open (this gives just a tiny bit more power before the coil is un-powered).
If that does not do it, then get some new switches.
-
You guys can see why I always recommend jumpering the EOS when diagnosing weak flippers. One little test gives us a lot of information!
Quoted from Blu:. After removing the bracket (what an unexpected pain that was) I noticed some blackening on the coil. Does that need to be replaced too?
If the Nylon coil sleeve slides out of the coil easily, your coil is probably still good.
Post a pic if you want a more informed opinion.
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:Vid, do you have a guide for EM games?
Any time lately I've gone to fix an EM, I never have my work camera with me.
If I can ever get organized, I'll add in an EM section.
Until then, most of the "Classic Bally" section will get you 90% there.
Post pics if you get stuck.
Quoted from aobrien5:If jumpering the EOS closed fixes a super weak flipper, and the gaps look good, is the answer always to replace the switch (even if it's brand new)?
99% of the time that would mean that the switch is tensioned wrong.
So, you would bend the leaves so one leaf follows the other slightly when the flipper opens the gap.
The leaves should TIGHTLY close towards each other.
Also, a few sys11 games are made to use an even smaller gap than 1/8", consult your manual if it is one of them .
Quoted from jibmums:is there any common household item to use as a "sleeve" for the smaller bolt in the larger hole?
Nothing that might wear the same.
Just bite the bullet and drill out the hole with a 5/32" drill bit, and then tap it.
Make sure you use cooking or motor oil on your tap. Those small sizes will dull fast if you don't.
Quoted from jibmums:second question, looks like a sys9 lane change switch gets a diode, does it matter which side the banded end goes to?
Yes, very important you put the wires back on the correct side band of the diode.
Quoted from jibmums:I assume you meant a 5/32" bit
Yes, I fixed it 
Quoted from jibmums:I was afraid you'd say that. Previous owner left the flippers a shambles of mismatched and broken parts,
Most games are like that.
Whatever parts were in the bottom of the toolbox got installed "to keep the came earning".
Quoted from jibmums:I've been trying to piece together the correct setup from the manual and others' photos but t'aint easy.
It might be easier to just buy 2 brand new Fliptronic flipper mechs from PBL and have Terri substitute the HV EOS switch:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172
Quoted from jibmums:While I'm at it, according to your pics on pg. 2 of this guide, wiring to the three coil lugs (50V / EOS switch / EOS switch & power return) is the same whether the coils are serial or parallel? Previous owner has one of each, and I'm replacing them both with new serials.
Just make them both Parallel, and wire like this:
48662-i.jpgThe 50v wiring I believe is a Blue wire to the left and a Gray to the right flipper.
The Return wire is Blue with Gray for left and Blue with Purple stripe for the right.
Check this for accuracy, cuz I don't have a schematic in front of me.
Quoted from Blu:So finished putting in new flippers on my Dara's NF, and we're having some creep on the flippers. Was really bad and we tightened the bolt the hold the flipper in, and while it reduced it, the flipper still creeps up and does not sit back where it started. And thoughts?
Quoted from vid1900:Q: NO MATTER HOW TIGHT I MAKE THE FLIPPER PAWL, THE FLIPPER SHAFT IS STILL LOOSE.
A: DREMEL OR FILE OUT SOME MATERIAL SO THAT THERE IS A GAP IN THE TIGHTENED PAWL.
---------------------------------
Remove the clamping bolt, and file off a little material.
It won't take much.
311873.jpgQuoted from jibmums:Just about done wiring up my Sorcerer flips, one last question: as long as I connect them to the middle lug and right (power return / non-banded side) lug, does it matter which wire goes to which blade of the EOS switches? Looking at numerous photos, it looks like it shouldn't matter, since it's basically just a power interrupt switch, right?
Either blade is fine.
Quoted from Ronnie1114:Upgraded the flippers on my Bally Hotdoggin' today and took apart one of the flippers and found this nice coil stop:
That is funny.
I just rebuilt some pops for a guy in Wolfsburg and one of them was like that with the free floating coil stop slug. Someone had tried to glue it at one point. I'm sure that lasted about about a hour, lol.
Quoted from RampShot11:I need Gottlieb System 3 flipper rebuild tips. I've rebuilt both flippers and they are still very weak, not sure why. Help please!!!
All the usual questions:
Did you leave the credit card thickness gap between the playfield bushing and the flipper?
Did you replace the playfield bushings?
Do the flippers move smoothly when you manually run through their range of motion?
Did you try jumpering the EOS Switch closed with a pair of alligator clips?
Quoted from nicoga3000:Before I start parsing 18 pages of information, is there a section on rebuilding Stern flippers? I already ordered the rebuild kit from PBL for my LOTR LE, but I was hoping there was a good primer on what I need to do.
I have not had any Stern service calls for flipper rebuilding lately.
If I do, I'll take lots of pics and make a guide.
Quoted from pinball_erie:Hi Vid, I am looking to rebuild the flippers on my recently acquired Sonic "Faces". I cant seem to be able to find parts ANYWHERE for this, will this part number from Bay Area Amusements work? FK-W1969-1979
It's listed as a Williams rebuild kit, and when I get under the hood on this Sonic everything looks like a Williams EM anyways!
As always, thanks for all you do for the community !!
Gonna need some good pics before that can be answered.
I often see parts from all different brands installed anywhere that kept the games going.
Quoted from RampShot11:What does jumpering the eos switch do?
Probably 90% of all "weak flipper" problems are the EOS Switch.
If you jumper it closed, you take it out of the circuit.
If the flipper now kicks like a mule, you know the switch is indeed the problem.
DO NOT HOLD THE FLIPPER BUTTON IN WHILE THE EOS IS JUMPERED - you will blow the fuse.
Quoted from hisokajp:Could I do that on my Segasa Cannes? the manual mention 24v and not 28v? I like original but the bounce back is killing me...
I assume it has Gotlieb flippers?
I can't remember the last time I saw inside of one....
The Bally were higher voltage, so you would probably want the 50v Williams FL-11630 (usually red in color), with the HV EOS switches.
If that coil has too much jism for the upper flipper, open up the EOS switch gap more, until you lower the strength to your liking.
You should probably keep the Bally sized flippers so you don't get ball hop on the inlanes.
Quoted from swinks:ound the original coil on Marco and the label states 43 volts and the FL-11630 which is stated at 50 volts - will the difference not matter at all?
Close enough.
That's why I was saying that the Bally were higher voltage than the 28v BK coils.
Quoted from swinks:with the switches it had a dual switch can I install a new one of this type.
You just need the switches to perform the same function, how they look is not important.
Carefully look at what your old switches actually accomplish when the flipper flips.
Quoted from j_m_:I know that this thread is dedicated to flippers, but wouldn't the orientation of the coil (not butting the diodes up against the coil) apply to all assemblies that contain coils with diodes?
Those coils are not as powerful as the flipper coils.
Classic Bally games are often assembled from the factory with the diode away from the coil stop.
Quoted from chuckwurt:When tightening flipper bats with my trusty Allen wrench, how tight do I want it? The reason I ask is because I bought a new flipper bat for my classic stern and I think I tightened it too much because it made a groove in the bat that was just so, and it caused the flipper to not swing freely eventually and the back of the linkage started to slip below the backstop of the flipper bracket. Hope that makes sense. Haha
You need to make them really tight or they will slip.
Bats and clamps are all standard wear/replacement parts.
Quoted from Plumonium:My only concern at this point, considering the information you gave above, is to have the same travel on both flippers.
There is no telling what someone else has done to the game over the last 30 years.
Worn parts, wrong parts, Gottlieb parts....it's usually a mess.
Just rebuild both flippers at the same time, with the same parts.
Thus travel with be identical.
Quoted from Keetur:-Should I just bite the bullet, and get new mounting plates? So as everything is new?
Yes, actually.
Your coil stop is so worn down that the plunger can not reach it.
That was a serious design flaw with the sys6&7 transition flipper plates.
BUT, you don't want to build the same junky system again!
This time order these plates (left and right):
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=259
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=260
Order 2 of these springs:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=306
Order 2 of these coil stops:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=273
Order 2 of these EOS Switches:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262
Order 4 of these screws:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=238
Order 4 of these washers:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=239
Now go back to page 1 and assemble yourself some great flippers (Spin your coil around too, it is backwards in your pic):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers
Quoted from sohchx:Ohhhhhh this is excellent!! So glad that I am following this post!! I too am planning to rebuild my Firepower flippers. Vid, any chance that you could give me a full list of links for every single part that you recommend I would need to order to do the full rebuild?? I thought of just buying one of the widely available rebuild kits, but I knew you would know what would work best for Firepower. Many, Many thanks in advance!!!
You actually have an easier job ordering, because you don't have any parts from the PBR kit to recycle.
When you get your mechs, remember to reverse the coils so the wire lugs are away from the coil stop, because PBL always puts them together backwards for some reason.
Quoted from pinballYeti:Question on my HS:
I have mismatched coils so I'm buying a fresh pair of coils for my flipper rebuild. PBL has these:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=155
The manual says the flipper coils are: FL 23/600-30/2600-50VDC. That link above says "SFL". What does the "S" mean and are they safe to use in my HS?
Unlike the last few questions where we needed to convert to a full sized 28v coil, you are already in the 50v big leagues.
You old coils are Series wound, so we want replace those with newer Parallel wound coils whenever they kick the bucket.
A new Parallel FL-11630 is the same power as your old Series FL-23/600 so get two of those:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=8
And because you are now Parallel, you can add the EOS Switch capacitor and make the switch last longer:
Quoted from Spyderturbo007:Does anyone know what I need to loosen so that I can align the flipper with the ball guide? The machine in question has new ball guides, so I know it's not that they are worn. I'm just not sure what I should loosen / remove so that I can align things.
When the ball travels down the left inlane, there is a bump where it transitions to the flipper from the guide.
What game is it?
Quoted from sohchx:I've never seen coil stop snapped before.
Millions of hits latter....
Often the bend in the metal breaks rather than just a chunk of the side.
Quoted from sohchx:why does the right mech have two leaf switches stacked and the left mech only one switch, and am I supposed to replicate the same leaf setup on the new PL mechs?
The extra, outside switch is the "lane change" switch.
Yes, you need to make sure this switch makes it over to the new mechs.
This is a LOW VOLTAGE switch, so make sure it stays insulated from the EOS, with that plastic insulator.
Quoted from sohchx:What plunger springs would you recommend for these? I was unaware that PL does not include them
See that tiny 1.25" spring hanging off the end of the pawl? That is the only spring you need with the new mechs! Go to page 1 of this guide to see how they are attached.
Quoted from sohchx:Do I need to order the capacitor that is pictured in your photo to the left?
Not for Firepower.
The cap can help in latter games (Sorcerer was the first to ship some models with caps installed, but F14 was the big turning point).
Quoted from sohchx:Being that the brand new EOS switch does not have the hole for the plastic spacer nor the plastic spacer in general, how can I replicate this leaf setup using the new EOS?
The plastic is installed on the lane change switch not the EOS, yes?
Quoted from boscokid:I have a Police Force where the coils appear to have both been swapped from originals to serial.
One looks like it has a newer EOS and the capacitor not there. The right side still has the capacitor.
Any harm in leaving it as is until i do a full rebuild? Both flippers work fine
You can leave it for now, but when you rebuild, add the cap back in.
Coils getting a warm can be normal.
Hot is bad.
Double check that you have the coil wires correct to the diodes. If the diodes/coil were replaced at some point, or you have moved the coil tabs away from the coil stop, your orientation may be off base.
If your right Comet coil is plenty strong enough the make the Corkscrew, then **slightly** open the EOS gap. Make sure you can still make the ramp.
Quoted from L_satan:could these mis-matched coils be an issue?
No, some games are designed to have "mismatched" flipper coils, right from the factory.
Comet is not one of them.
Actually, the 11630 is the correct Parallel coil to replace the older Serial coil (23-600/30-2600), so if you are rebuilding the flippers anyway, make both coils 11630.
By using parallel coils, you can add a 2.2uf capacitor and make the EOS switch last much longer.
Quoted from L_satan:Any thoughts on that Gottlieb coil heating up too much?
Get the schematic out and check each wire in relation to the coil tabs and diodes.
Try jumpering across the EOS switch and see if the flipper can then make the ramp lock.
Quoted from xsvtoys:NOTE: I HAVE JUST READ ALL 20 PAGES!!
Geeez, I feel sorry for you. Even I have not read all 20 pages...
Quoted from xsvtoys:Is there a good trick for measuring the 1/8" gap for the EOS switch?
A little less that 2 American quarters stacked (.25 cent).
Quoted from xsvtoys:3. The limit switch has been bent as you can see. Also, it appears that a small playfield rubber was put over the pivot rod that should trip the limit switch. I am presuming this should not be there and that it should look like the one on the right. I guess all of this was done by someone previously in an attempt to get the limit adjustment to work correctly. It does seem to work OK, but I would presume that this is not the right way to do it.
The mini post rubber is clever, but it won't last long.
There was supposed to be a nylon insulator on that stud. It may have worn through, and thus fell off.
Quoted from xsvtoys:I am looking at the rebuild kits now. The main thing I am worried about is if I will run into problems that would be related to what triggered these mods.
They are not even "mods" just plain ol' hacks.
Rebuild everything with a PBR kit and know that you are 100% good.
Quoted from xsvtoys:Also, it looks like I should probably change at least the left switch stack, although maybe it can be bent back into shape?
Just use the new switch in the kit and forget about trying to mess with those crappy ones.
The EOS switch is the cause of 99% of all "my flippers are weak" problems.
You want brand new switches for max power.
Quoted from hisokajp:Venturing rebuilding my Surf Champ, first Goetlieb EM rebuild BUT I hammered the pin out of the old assembly, and trying to rebuild it with the new plunger but I cannot for the life of me hammer the pin back in...? Is there some kind of technic? Can I use grease or oil to make this easier?
No grease or oil.
Take a pair of needle nose Vise-Grips and squeeze the leading edge gap in the pin together.
Don't grip it too hard, just enough to close the gap.
Now tap it in about 1/8", and remove the Vise-Grips. Tap it the rest of the way.
Quoted from Elicash:Vid, getting ready for my second rebuild (Johnny Mnemonic). I saw a thread debating the quality of different flipper parts suppliers. On my recent WH20 rebuild, the threaded shaft of the pawl snapped when I was tightening the bat down. May have just been a fluke, but-
My question: who do recommend for parts on WPC rebuilds? Specifically, does someone like PBR produce a better quality? I don't mind paying a little more if there is any difference.
Thanks for the help.
PBR is probably the best, PBL is good too.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Looking at marco's kit for my Fire!. the EOS switches look to be standard and don't have the extra arm stabilizing the one leaf. Can anyone confirm that these EOS switches do or do not have the extra arm?
1/2 the time they give you the sucky EOS switches that don't have the extra spring leaf.
Just replace with a good switch.
Quoted from xsvtoys:Having that spring washer in that position, as described in a post a few pages back, didn't seem to fit too well. This seemed to work a lot better.
I'd assemble in this order: coil stop, then the sleeve (the end of the sleeve with the bend), then the coil ( end without the solder tabs), then the wavy washer, then the coil bracket.
You want the sleeve to protrude through the coil bracket, so the spring does not scar up the plunger by getting trapped between the plunger and bracket.
Quoted from RampShot11:I just installed all new flipper parts on my WCS, also new coils, everything from the roota to the toota. I still am not gettiing that snap I feel I should get from new flipper parts and coils.
What are you comparing the "snap" to?
When you manually move the flippers through their range of motion, are they smooth and not binding against anything?
When you manually lift up on the flippers, is there about a credit card's thickness of play?
Quoted from RampShot11:Was I supposed to tighten the flipper piston and link to the pawl also?
No, that should be loose
Quoted from RampShot11:When I manually move them they feel perfect, also I used the gap tool when I tightened down the flipper bats so the gap seems good. I'm not sure what else to check.
Check that you have proper voltage at the coils.
Like xsvtoys says, check your wiring.
Quoted from RampShot11:Does anyone have a pic of how the wiring goes to the flipper coils on WCS ? I can't find a clear pic anywhere and the manual does not have any diagram of the wiring to the flipper coils.
Quoted from slgerber:Ok Vid, here we go. Need advice on rebuilding or replacing my sharpshooter flippers. The left flipper burnt up and the right one is on it's last leg. I know coils are available but I don't know think th coil stops are.
First, I'd call PBR and see what parts are actually still available:
If no parts are around, you could install a complete Classic Stern flipper mech and just put in the proper coil. This would look the most stock :
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2411
Or if you don't care about how "stock" it looks, you could do a WPC flipper mech :
Quoted from mof:I'm wondering what's going on here. Is the switch too short?
There is probably a little play to move the switch up a little.
The "rubber" boot, was it really rubber? Shrink tubing is usually kind of slippery, rubber kind of sticky.....
Quoted from chuckwurt:What happens of i put the coil sleeve in backwards?
The coil works in either direction, so if you put the sleeve in backwards, you flip the coil too.
The flanged part of the sleeve goes around the coil stop.
Quoted from slgerber:One question though, is the SFL-19-400/30-750 coil series? This would mean the EOS switch needs to be N.O. right? Thanks.
You need a Normally Closed, High Voltage EOS Switch.
Quoted from vid1900:Terry at PL will actually make the entire assembly for you for only $36:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172
Make sure you email him and tell him you need the SFL 19/400 - 30/750 coil and a high voltage EOS switch, as they are not a standard pull down menu choice.
Quoted from slgerber:Yes I ordered these yesterday. I was asking because of what I read on Marcos site.
Strange, I'm not sure where they copied all that from.
You want Normally Closed, High Voltage (big silver tungsten contacts), EOS Switch.
Quoted from Crash:I've noticed many Data East games don't use lock nuts on the back side of the flipper plates. Have you seen any negative effects from this? Ironically the only trouble I've had with bushing screws falling out is on Williams games.
The threading tolerance was pretty loose with those Williams.
I'd just put the backing nuts on the DE anyway - cheaper than a playfield repair.
-
Classic Bally coil stops also were threaded poorly and often loosen or strip out completely. Backer nuts or even a plate for those.
Quoted from chuckwurt:My coil has this tab that will not let me install the coil as you suggested. Should I just get it the way it came factory, or is it that big of a deal that I need a new could that I can flip around per your instructions?
Use a Dremel or rat-tail file and make a quick notch in the coil bracket.
If you have neither, just cut the nylon pin off.
Quoted from Elicash:I just picked up a Taxi with the modern return spring but it is hooked around the zip tie holding resistor. Is this right / wrong / good / bad?
That is a lazy way to do it, but it's better than nothing.
It probably is putting a little more tension on the spring, by stretching it farther; so you may get just a little less flipper power.
Quoted from Elicash:Assuming it is ideal to drill the small hole and make it permanent. But is this better than conical spring?
Yes, conical springs break and scar the plunger.
Quoted from Elicash:I'm a little nervous to try to drill (I'm still pretty new to all this). Do I just want to use a metal-specific bit and clamp the piece down in a vice? Any specific bit that works?
The bracket metal is very soft.
Any sharp drill bit will bore through it in seconds.
Don't slip and drill through the coil!
Quoted from aobrien5:how do you determine if this type of crank needs to be replaced (Harlem Globetrotters)? They look ok without knowing what to look for.
Kinda like when you buy a used car, the first thing you do is change the oil......many collectors rebuild the flippers before they do anything else.
You can measure the length of the plunger and the coil stop with a pair of calipers. (somewhere I posted many of the lengths when new, but I can't find it).
You can manually grab the flipper bat and check for slop or play in the link.
On an old Bally, usually the fiber links have a ton of play because the holes have elongated. The cranks will outlast 5 sets of links.
I've got a box of 200 those sleeves, so I can try a few.
Naturally there is some variation and I can usually find a fit in just a few tries.
On the road I obviously can't take 200 sleeves with me, so I have a drill bit in my kit that **just** barely reams out the solenoids so any sleeve slides right in.
Quoted from Plumonium:What is the replacement to a PinBot AE-23-800-04 for the newer Williams parallel coil?
I'm guessing FL-11630
The factory flipper coil was actually a FL- 23/600-30/2600 so the Parallel coil would be FL-11630
Quoted from chuckwurt:Not sure why, but might bottom right flipper is a lot weaker than the bottom left. Same coil, all new parts. Any ideas what my issue is?
I'll guess EOS switch.
Using a set of allagator clips, jumper the EOS switch closed.
Don't hold the flipper too long, just test if it now has full strength.
Quoted from chuckwurt:Okay. I did this, turned the game on, nothing happened.
image.jpeg
Move the left hand clip upwards (behind the tungsten contact point), otherwise it is going to get whacked by the pawl arm.
Start a game, see if the flipper is strong.
Quoted from aobrien5:Rebuilding the HGT seen above now. I got capacitors to add to them to prevent arcing, but now I can't find if that was actually recommended here or not. I thought I read it somewhere...
I don't think HGT came with arc suppression caps, so you can leave them off.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:The lower flippers have a dual switch. The upper flippers have the single EOS switch. The lower EOS switch is 'coupled' with a switch that closes at the end of the stroke. I want to upgrade to the WPC style flippers, but not sure what to do with this double switch as the rebuild kits only come with the 'one-way' EOS switch.
As you noticed, there are two switches stacked together.
Note also that there is a white plastic insulator that separates the high voltage flipper circuit, from the low voltage switch matrix circuit.
When you rebuild the flipper, you will save the low voltage switch (the one with the diode attached), and the plastic insulator. You will only replace the high voltage EOS Switch.
It is mega important that the high voltage circuit does not touch the low voltage one - or you will blow up the switch matrix.
Quoted from Dawson:Right now , the coils are 25-949's I don't believe those are the right ones..sluggish , non snappy and weak , come to mind .. Hitting the ramp is next to impossible ...vid1900 what's a better coil for this machine ?
The proper coil is printed underneath the playfield next to the flippers ( In this case, it's A-25959)
Call PRB and get the proper coils, and a flipper rebuild kit.
Remember you get 10% discount for $100, so look for a few other things to pad the bill.
Quoted from Dawson:Do people think the flippers on Cue Ball Wizard are generally underpowered..
I've played a couple besides mine and they all seemed weak ...
Might be just bad CBW luck ..
Most flippers on old games suck.
Only the cool kids rebuild them for top performance.
Quoted from Dawson:What do you think ? Would a Williams/Bally full flipper kit with base from pinball life work in CBW?
Quoted from BriPin:I would like to do this as well. I replaced all of my CBW's parts including using the shorter System 1 coil stops but I still don't get that Williams flipper feel.
The Gottlieb A-25959 coil is slightly stronger than Williams strongest flipper coil FL11629, so you would take a small strength hit, but gain the Williams snap and cheap replacement parts.
Quoted from aobrien5:. I put the spacer in and tighten the shaft down and it's pulling the flipper down so tight I can barely get the spacer out. When it's done, the flipper is nearly dragging on the playfield.
That's a known problem with Classic Bally, once the flipper shaft gets a "memory" you are usually stuck with it.
I'd just get some new shafts from PBR (yes, I know that sucks, lol).
Quoted from Dawson:I would love to be able to put some got snappy will/ball flip in the ol' CBW, I just think the flipper bases might be too big ? Covering up inserts and wires that can't be moved...
Wires can usually be moved, even 3/4 covered inserts can be lit by LED flexis.
Make a paper template from one of your other games, and try moving them around and see if they fit (and by fitting, they might not necessarily be symmetrical).
Quoted from Dawson:Steve told me that gottlieb has a more powerful flipper coil.. The 29876..
I'm sure the correct coils are good enough with a rebuilt flipper. Usually when you put stronger than designed for coils in, plastics and ramps usually start to break.....
Assuming you have the correct coil, you probably have the coil stop cocked slightly.
Loosen it, make sure there are lock washers under the screws, and tighten it down squarely.
If the base plate threads are starting to strip and won't stay tight, they use longer bolts, lock washers and backing nuts.
Quoted from Crash:Vid what is your opinion on Data East flipper coils and replacing sleeves? It seems I have always had issues with these coils being tight and causing sleeves to get stuck. Today I tried two different coils with new sleeves. I had a heck of a time getting them in and once I got them fitted the plunger, which is new, kept getting stuck in a ridge that had formed in the sleeve. These are the ones with two narrow labels on top and bottom. Do you think these are original or replacement coils? Mine were several years old sitting in a box.
There seems to always be some variation in tolerance with those things, even in Williams parts.
If you have one of those 115 drill bit sets, there is a bit that will **just** ream out a hair of plastic making them fit. (I'm on the road, so I can't go look what bit it is).
Quoted from rwarren28806:Good deal. What should we check for?
Clean your flipper switch button contacts.
Adjust them so the flipper trigger in the first 1/3 of the stroke, the rest of the stroke depth will function as a "cleaning action"
Quoted from jibmums:The PBR unit on the right is noted on his site as "enhanced", and the cylinder looks to be assembled from several different parts. How well does this hold up over time
The enhanced stops are supposed to not magnetize or mushroom as easily. I use them all the time.
Quoted from jibmums:I also need to get new EOS switches for the four flips in Space Invaders. I see multiple switches in each stack but find no info or part numbers in the manual or Planetary's 1980 parts book. I'm sure you must have rebuilt an SI in the past, can you tell me what the part numbers are?
Those are stacks of switches. I'm not sure they ever sold the whole stack as a unit. You would just buy they switches you needed and swap them into the stack.
Quoted from jibmums:I also have two EOS switches left over from a Firepower rebuild kit, with the "helper" blade. I need to replace the EOS's in my Centaur also, are these the high voltage switches that you had previously mentioned using instead of the standard Bally switch?
If they are high voltage switches and have the helper leaf, you can swap those into a Bally.
Quoted from jibmums:Here are pix of both upper & lower switches. Right & left side were identical so I just took the two photos. I think I remember reading that the low voltage switch (with the smaller contacts) on the upper flippers triggers a "shot fired" sound effect, if so then that wouldn't necessarily need to be replaced, right?
No, don't replace the low voltage switch, just clean the contacts with a new $100 bill.
All you need to replace is the EOS Switch part. You can use a Williams one, or call PBR and get the exact Bally replacement.
Don't forget the plastic spacers are needed when you stack switches - you DON'T want to put high voltage down the switch bus.....
Quoted from Elicash:I noticed on my Taxi the buttons feel very stiff. Harder to depress them than my WPC games. Is there an easy way to address this? I like the softer feel of my other games and I don't know if there is a spring in the button housing I could change.
You never know what buttons or springs have been replaced over the years in a pinball machine.
If the buttons you have now are spring loaded, you can cut out part of the coil and make them weaker, or just replace the spring altogether.
Some buttons have a C-clip holding them together, and some you just press the back of the plunger on a table top.
You can take the switches apart and put the fish paper in the Williams style EOS Switch yourself.
Bally always instructed us to keep the high voltages off the frames
Quoted from Zora:When simply holding balls with one flipper finger (e.g. during multiballs) and/or bringing them into play again by sligthly pushing the flipper button (holding time perhaps 1 minute), it happened 3 times, that the transistor was damaged and the finger was not working any longer. Can this be an effect of holding the finger up for too long or even by the strong coil itself?
Quoted from Zora:I replaced the strong coils by weaker ones, but know, when holding the left finger up, the finger goes down a bit when a stronger ball hits the peak of the finger and then the finger reacts and shoots the ball back automatically (everything during holding the button pressed). What is going wrong here? The plunger and the coils should be o.k. Could it be the EOS switches (too wide open?)
The EOS switch should open 1/16" when the flipper is fully activated.
The CPU will give a continued pulse to the flipper coil if it detects a momentary closure of the switch from a rebounding ball.
Make sure the EOS switch contacts are clean and gaped correctly.
Quoted from SUPERBEE:Hey Vid, what is the proper EOS gap supposed to be on my WPC "the Getaway"? I'm sure it's probably in this thread somewhere but that's a lot of reading lol.
Getaway is a FliptronicII system, so the EOS switches are NORMALLY OPEN.
Make sure the switch closes when the flipper is extended.
Quoted from Ronnie1114:Hey Vid, have you ever done rebuilds on Gottlieb flippers? A guide for those would be great!
Last time I was out on a Gottlieb flipper repair, I did not have a low light camera with me and the bar was too dark.
Next time for sure.
Quoted from SUPERBEE:Yes, they are open. Just wondering if there should be a specific gap when they are open?
As long as the switch closes when the flipper is extended, it will work properly.
That is what was good about Flip2, it did not need any exact switch adjustment.
Quoted from dozer1:Would the Bally EOS switch BLY-ASWA2034+ be a better choice in this case, as it appears to have the tentioning leaf and says it is "high current"
That is a fine choice.
Quoted from dozer1:Secondly, could you help me out with a few dimensions on the "L" bracket you use for the extension spring. Length of both sides of the L and metal thickness, as well as width would be very helpful. The bend of the bottom of the L should be easy enough for me to figure out.
I'm on the road, so I don't have the dimensions with me.
I just used the old linear Pawl and bent the metal so it matched the geometry.
A year ago I had a guy who what going to make a bunch of them in bulk. Maybe he will chime in with where he is on that project.
Quoted from sohchx:Vid, I'd like to get these for a Williams System 9 machine, Space Shuttle. Will I need new EOS switches for them, and if so which ones??
Thanks!!
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=3732
Nope, that's the wrong mech.
Read the first 4 pages of this guide if you want to know why, or just order the stuff below .
You need this mech (get one Left, one Right):
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172
With the A-12111 coil stop.
With the FL11630 Coil
With this EOS Switch:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262&parent=0 (email Terry to swap it into your mech, because there is no option in the menu).
You will also have to flip the coil around, because PBL mounts them backwards with the solder terminals next to the Coil Stop (a big no-no).
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Now your Comet will be in pinball flipper heaven.
Quoted from Crash:Vid is there anything you would suggest to prevent or reduce wear on Data East spring extension pawls?
That super soft stamped metal is worthless.
All you could do is weld over the hole, then re-drill it.
The weld metal will be 100x harder than the base.
Quoted from delt31:- is the yellow circle the thing I need to adjust to reposition/realign the angle of the flipper?
Yes.
Quoted from delt31:I believe to make the flipper weaker you need to space out the switch so it's not as tight as what's seen in this pic right? If not, how do I make it a little weaker?
To make the flipper weaker, have the EOS Switch gap open WIDER when the flipper is extended.
The sooner the EOS Switch is open, the weaker the flip.
A little bit makes a big difference, so go slow.
Quoted from delt31:thanks - so I can just bend the left side of the switch a little to the left so the two don't have a "closed" touch and the flipper will be weaker? The further the bend to the left the weaker correct?
Almost.
They MUST touch when the flipper is at rest, or the flipper wont have any jism at all.
But when the flipper is activated, the larger the final switch gap, the weaker the flipper will be.
Quoted from delt31:so I found the thing to turn to release the flipper to be repositioned BUT it's so stuck in that position - I feel like I'm going to break the hex nut to loosen it. It's not too big of a deal since it's upper flipper but I would like to move it just a tad. Don't want to break anything though as the hex nut is super tight on it. Any suggestions to loosen without breaking as the force of me trying to loosen it is putting stress on the total unit itself and feel like it could break
Someone before you may have Loctited it. Heat the nut with a micro torch (or really big soldering GUN).
If it's the old style bolt with the hex head on both ends, then use 2 wrenches and squeeze them towards each other (remember you want the nut to turn CCW if viewed face on). 2 wrenches will keep you from twisting the entire mech.
"Line Wrenches" have the extra jaw area to not slip or strip a nut.
If nothing will budge, then cut the bolt shaft in half with an abrasive disk on your dremmel.
Quoted from TZBen:How do I obtain the high sensitivity I see in vids where the flipper is in the hold position and the player can get it to twitch (both for stern and bally)
Do you want to "post pass" or "tap pass" (easier on older games) ?
Quoted from TZBen:Some of my pins have a high sensitivity to the vibrating tap and some are difficult to get it done on. What do I adjusted to add sensitivity to the flipper button?
What pin, some are electronic (like WPC) and some are regular switched circuits?
Quoted from sohchx:Vid, I'm looking for all new assemblies for a Whirlwind. Would this be sufficient equipped with a FL-11630 coil, and A-12111 coil stop?
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=717
Don't forget a high voltage EOS Switch.
Quoted from boscokid:Police Force popping F5; of course I check EOS first and see this. The game has been working fine for several months after I last adjusted the EOS gap. I 'may' have moved this more than normal to get the proper gap. Is this just bad luck and replace, or do I have something more nefarious going on?
Those switches get hammered 10000s of times per day, so they do sometimes break.
Make sure on the pawl that activates the switch, that you have the little piece of shrink tubing. This insulates the switch and helps prevent some metal on metal wear.
Quoted from boscokid:This is what I have to replace. The old one only had two arms, so this with three is better right?
That looks to be a high quality replacement.
Quoted from TBatti:Can't get it to be stuck again. It is working but not with full power.
Manually move the flipper through it's range of motion, does it freely move or is it tighter in part of the arc?
Your Cab Switch contacts look bad. Take a fine file and get those contacts down to clean metal.
Your EOS Switch looks very dirty. I can't see the contacts, but I imagine they look as bad as the Cab Switch - again, clean with file.
Quoted from EvanDickson:Whoever pimped out my BK before I had it installed the new style flipper assemblies. Everything about them is spotless and clean. The only difference is that they still have the old style spring-over-shaft instead of the spring mounted off to the side.
It's easy to add the new springs and toss the old 'round the shaft ones.
Quoted from EvanDickson:I find the flippers to be somewhat weak, it's quite hard to clear the left ramp to the upper PF. I'm wondering if the spring style robs the flippers of power,
Hard to say if it's the right spring.
A spring with too much tension will of course rob the flippers of power.
But 95% of the time, weak flippers are caused by the EOS Switch being incorrectly adjusted, or dirty.
Jumper the 2 leaves of the EOS Switch together with an Alligator Clip and see if the flipper is now crazy strong.
Quoted from hisokajp:I changed, sleeve, spring but it was no different so I broke down and order the older style rebuild kit from PBR. Changed up the whole set up and of course... same problem still
Is your Wavy Washer on the Coil Stop?
It should be on the Coil Bracket side.
Quoted from hisokajp:whoa, you were right, that fixed it! I am not sure why that would be the case but it was?
Common mistake.
You want the plunger to engage the coil stop squarely, and that often won't happen with the Wavy Washer in the wrong position.
Like always with an "underpowered flipper", start by jumpering the EOS switch closed with alligator clips and now test for power.
Don't hold the flipper button, just tap it.
Flipper should kick like a mule.
=
The coil does not look square to the base in that photo.
Loosen the coil stop, loosen the coil bracket.
Push the coil bracket all the way back from the link - tighten both screws while pushing.
Push the coil stop towards the coil bracket - tighten both screws while squeezing.
Quoted from PhillyArcade:Well all I can say is WOW and Thank you guys for this post and all the input! Now let me know where to send the bill for broken plastics! The flippers went from 0 to 1000 real quick! The damn ball is doing all kinda english spins on the PF! BK2K is crazy enough now the ball feels like it's going to break anything in it's path! lol
So here is what I did. 2 fresh new cabinet switches, Took those plunger springs off the lower coils ( I did a new sleeve on that lower right flipper. The new sleeve was all nasty already from it struggling), and did as new coil (all coils new and match now) with full flipper rebuild on the upper PF flipper. I also took about 10 mins or more on each switch. Adjusting them and tweaking them so they meet perfectly flat when closed. It is like night and day unreal. The ball is like a shotgun going off when you hit it with any flipper. I have yet to really play a good game and enjoy all it has to offer I've been chasing bugs like this since I bought it last year. Thank goodness I have an extra plastic set! Now I'm going to be a junkie playing this thing!! Thanks again all!!
I'd open up the EOS switch gap a little on that upper flipper or you WILL break plastics.
Lot's of games shipped to too strong of flipper coils, and then had to be replaced latter in the field (or at the factory) with weaker coils.
Making the EOS Switch open sooner (wider gap) is very effective in taming a too strong coil.
Quoted from Lame33:I apologize if this has been covered, but how much wider to turn a flipper into a wet noodle? I need to gimp the upper flipper on my Meteor and this sounds way easier than my original plan of buying a weaker coil.
If the EOS is brand new (or 100% clean), an extra 1/16 of an inch probably kills the power by 30% or so.
You just have to play with it.
Once you get a feel for it, you can do it in 2 tries.
Any used game could have any size coil stop installed.
An operator might put any piece of crap in the flipper to keep the game earning.
A homeowner may have put the wrong coil stop in because he did not know that they came in different sizes.
As long as you bought the correct one, you are playing the game as it was meant to be played.
(if it's too easy, you can always put longer coils stops in, just switch them back when you sell the game)
Quoted from Friengineer:What's the importance of the sleeve
The sleeves keep the plunger from wearing into the coil winding and shorting out the circuit.
The sleeves are slippery, so the plunger hits hard.
The sleeve centers the plunger against the coil stop.
Quoted from Friengineer:why did they leave them out?
They clearly did not actually rebuild the flippers, because without the sleeves, it would be worthless effort.
I'd suggest you COMPLETELY rebuild the flippers YOURSELF. That way you will know the job was done right, and the correct parts were used.
Quoted from grandy:1. flip power is lacking. it just doesn't have much umph from either flipper. it almost seems slow or sluggish.
Job #1 whenever EM or SS flipper lack power:
Jumper the EOS Switch closed with alligator clips.
Don't hold the flipper button in, just tap it.
Does the flipper now kick like a mule?
Quoted from grandy:2. hold power is lacking. when the ball comes down and hits the flipper in it's hold position the flipper bounces quite a bit (like the ball is hitting a trampoline).
See if the Coil Stop is absolutely square to the coil.
Even a slight angle will often keep the hold from holding an incoming ball.
Quoted from Geocab:Why the longer throw anyway? How does it affect gameplay? Curiosity.
Early games had more flipper throw, making it easier to catch and cradle the ball.
Latter Williams changed to shorter throw to make the games harder.
Quoted from Geocab:Quick question about upgrading Sorcerer flippers to Fliptronic style, do I want the longer flipper throw 92-93 kit? Or the 93-98 kit?
Longer throw.
Quoted from Elicash:Thanks Vid. I got a decent pic of the top and bottom of the lug where the hold wire attaches (according to manual it is orange/violet). Looks pretty good, in the pic, but wonder if you see something. Guessing next move is to remove coil?
I was talking about the fine red coil wires (the ones that actually wind around the bobbin to form the coil).
I can see 1 of them in the picture and it looks fine.
Quoted from Elicash:. I checked resistance across the 'hold' portion of the coil (Outside Orange/Violet with positive lead and blue/yellow with negative lead) and got a reading of 2.583 M Ohms. According to the coil specs, it should have a reading of 160 Ohms. assuming that means i have a bad coil?
Sure sounds bad.
Sometimes, if the coil wire broke off the lug, you can unwind a loop of wire, scrape the red lacquer off and resolder it to the coil lug. Leave some slack in the wire so it is less likely to break again.
If the wire broke internally, you are out of luck - recycle it.
Quoted from Plumonium:Hi Vids!
My left flipper on my Diner just gave up in the middle of a game. I rebuilt them not too long ago and they were great, around 50 plays since. In the middle of a game, suddenly, my left flipper barely gets up. When I press and hold, I can see it struggle to get up and I can hear it struggle as well. I know you always say check eos but since this happened in the middle of a game I was wondering what you thought.
Thanks!
See if it moves smoothly manually.
50 plays, if it's not the EOS, I'd guess bad solder joint on one of the lugs.
Quoted from Crash:Ok cool, so I can just get a kit and can reuse the existing flipper mounting plate and coil retaining bracket? It looks like the 11630 is a bit longer.
Most likely all the geometry would be off.
You probably have to use the WPC plate so everything lines up properly.
Quoted from Crash:Where does the C clip go in the PBResource rebuild kit for the linear flipper replacement?
If they are metal, they probably were mistakenly included in the kit.
The 2 plastic Nyliners (they might look like a C clip from above), go on the plunger bracket.
Quoted from jdoz2:So with rebuild kits costing nearly $50 for harlem and flash gordon, would buying this entire stern assembly be just fine?
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=2411
Im assuming it would take up the same amount of room, but may need new mounting holes. I figured this would kill two birds by it being cheaper as well as getting rid of the linear mechs.
You could do that, but remember the Stern rebuild kits for that mech still cost $45.
If you are gong to Frankenstein it, you might want to use the B/W mechs that don't chew up the flipper shafts, have the snappy extension return springs AND only cost $21 to completely rebuild.
Quoted from GSones:Did you mean for him to use the Bally style EOS switches (as shown in the Embryon lower flipper photo) instead of a superior Williams EOS switch or did you mean for him to stick with the entire Bally linear flipper mechanism.
I meant that it would be easier to just use the Bally switches, than jerry rig up some replacement.
Quoted from GSones:The only reason I didn't try this approach right off the bat is that the underside of the playfield is so crowded on this game that I worried that there might be some clashes with wiring and other mechanisms. After wasting so much time trying to make these POS work I'm willing to try to shoe-horn the better design in.
Once you de-build one, you are a pro, and it becomes a breeze.
Quoted from HeatedCane:I have a flash pinball and I want to upgrade my flippers to the fliptronics.. 1 would I be able too? and 2 since it has 3 flippers 2 on the right do I need to request a different switch from PBL?
Yes, you can upgrade easily.
I'm pretty sure that the RH side has a EOS/upper flipper switch combo stack.
Post a pic and I can verify.
You can see that the RH EOS Stack has had parts swapped off of it before.
Not a lot of contact material left, so probably best to replace.
So LH side, you just need standard high voltage EOS, RH you need standard high voltage EOS + a high voltage normally open switch.
This is what would have been on the RH side originally:
So you can build your own stack from parts (and then have the extra leaf spring finger on the EOS), or just buy the above part from PBR .
Viperwrk did your entire job here with nice detail:
INSTALLING WILLIAMS WPC FLIPPERS IN A CLASSIC BALLY or CLASSIC STERN
=================================================
Why the hell would anyone do something like that???
$22 future rebuilds, longer lasting EOS Switches because of Parallel Wound Coils, longer lasting Coil Stops, longer lasting links, no compression springs, indefinite flipper shaft positioning, or the only thing you had with you on a service call was WPC flipper mechs.
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I went out on a service call to fix a Xenon that has been in constant service for 35 years. The clubhouse owner said the flippers were sticking in the up position, even if the power was shut off. This tells you that the problem is mechanical - flippers need a rebuild.
I had serviced this machine 100000 times, so I knew that the crappy Linear flipper mechs had been changed to the much superior Standard flipper mechs (how to do this yourself: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/11#post-1855100 ).
I brought a standard Bally rebuild kit ( http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-BFLIP03) with me to do the repair.
When I lifted the playfield I saw, to my horror, that someone had switched the game back to Linear flipper mechs! As a bonus, they drove oversized wood screws through the coil stop baseplate holes, completely stripping out the baseplate. Normally if the base plate is stripped on a Classic Bally, you can switch the left and right plates to use the fresh holes (Bally are universal plates), but this trick had apparently been done already. If I was back in the shop, I could drill out the holes, tap them for the next size up bolt, and get things working again, but I was 40 minutes from my shop. The only solution I had with me was WPC flipper mechs....
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In this job I used:
On left, one right, one left, WPC flipper mechs: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172
F-11630 Coils: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=8
A-12111 Coil Stops: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=273
High Voltage EOS Switches: http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262
Titan Competition Flipper Rubbers: https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=33&product_id=52
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You need to order right and left flipper mechs because Williams are NOT reversible.
You want the F-11630 coils because they are perfect replacements for the old Bally coils. Yes, if you "do the math" the F-11630s are stronger coils than the Bally, but the Bally is only running at 43V, not the Williams 50V. The lower voltage nicely balances out the stronger coil.
You want the A-12111 coils stops so the flippers still have the same range of motion as the old mechs.
You want the High Voltage EOS Switches so they don't get destroyed by the spark arc. The new Parallel coils will cause less damage to the EOS Switches, but will still be too damaging to low voltage switches.
The new Parallel coils are wired differently than the old Bally Serial ones.
The new Parallel coil has the Power lug on the left. You know it because it has both the tiny Hold wire and the thick Flipper wire.
(The old coil Power wires were not even soldered! Nice work bozo.)
It's always best to do all the bench work on a bench, rather than dripping solder all over the machine.
Wire up the EOS Switches to the proper coil lugs.
Remember this is a Parallel coil, so the Power lug (the one with both a fine and heavy coil wire) does NOT get connected to the EOS Switch.
The lugs on this coil were smaller than the Bally coil, so I wrapped the EOS Switch wires BELOW the lug eyelets. This leaves the eyelets open for the Power and Return wires. Having open eyelets makes soldering under a playfield much easier!
Remember that the coils are mounted with the Lugs AWAY from the coil stop!
Stick a #2 screwdriver or flipper shaft in the mech and set up the EOS Switch gap.
1000x easier to do on the bench!
Details here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773655
Before you put the playfield mounting screws into the new flipper base plates, you need to be sure that the Flipper Bushing stays in the center of the playfield hole.
You won't be able to hold it by hand; the force of the screws making new holes will drag the Bushing in some random direction.
There were a bunch of light tubes that are supposed to go behind the Xenon drop targets, that were just lying in the bottom of the cab. I used one of them as they fit snugly in the playfield holes.
After I screwed down the baseplates, I twisted out the light tubes.
Had the tubes not fit snugly, I would have had to EVENLY put a few wraps of electrical tape around them.
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The baseplates can be spun in any direction to avoid inserts or other obstructions under the playfield. Both baseplates don't have to be at the same angle or aligned with each other.
Unscrew any wiring harness clips that are blocking the new base plate. You can re-attach them latter.
You want to reinstall actual Bally Flippers because Williams bats are thinner and the ball will hop when coming down the return lane.
The worst part about Bally flippers is that any previous installation will make a memory dimple that will keep you from changing the alignment of the flippers.
If you try to move the flipper's resting point down a little, the set screw finds the old dimple and pops it back into the old position. Even if you swap the left and right flippers, some pawls still find the old holes. It sucks.
The new Williams pawls will grip the flipper higher on the shaft, above the old holes.
You can freely change the flipper alignment, now or years from now.
Your new mech now has the coil mounted 180° around from the old coil, so don't let yourself get confused on the wiring.
You might have to snip a few nylon zip ties to have enough slack in the wire to reach the new coils.
The Power wire chains power from one flipper to the other, so it is often doubled up on the Left flipper.
The Power wire goes to the "empty lug" (the one with a heavy and fine coil wire leading to it).
The Return wire goes to the outside lug that already has an EOS Switch wire on it.
You can always check for 43VDC with your meter to find the Power wire should you find a game with the flipper mechs missing, odd colored wires spliced in, or whatever other mess you encounter.
Work the mechs by hand and make sure all the wires clear the moving parts.
Zip tie all the wires out of harm's way.
If you find that the flippers are a little too strong, simply open up the EOS Switch gap by another 1/16 of an inch or so and you will find the power drops substantially.
If you find the flippers are weak, you know you don't have the EOS Switch set properly. The contacts need to STRONGLY close towards each other.
Here was the final installation.
The game played perfectly. I wondered if the coils, even at 43V might be a little too strong (requiring me to open the EOS Switch gap), but it was perfect with the 1/8" gap right out of the gate.
Although the game still had it's fat Bally bats, it had that snappy, surgical Williams tightness. No Bally slop at all.
I put the new thinner Titan rubbers on the bats, as the old rubbers were thicker and made for a little ball hop on the return lanes.
In pencil, I noted the changes in the manual, so any tech working on the game in the future, will understand exactly what was done.
Quoted from Langless28:thanks, was your example from a TW or Disco Fever?
It was TimeWarp. Disco Fever is sacred and can not be modified.
Quoted from Langless28:I have tried searching this thread for the answer but if switching to the WPC plates, what coil stop is correct?
A-12111
Quoted from Langless28:How do you determine this?
You want the flipper to have the same range of motion as it originally did.
So you have to find the matching Coil Stop.
BUT your old Coil Stop and plunger will be worn and have MUCH more range of motion than when new. So when you are finding the matching parts, you have to use all BRAND NEW parts of the old mech.
Quoted from Langless28:Is it the same coil stop # that would go into the stock flipper assembly?
Not necessarily.
Williams changed the coil stops in the 90s to make it harder to catch and cradle the ball.
Quoted from HeatedCane:I know this is off topic as far as your new posts but when installing the fliptronics in my flash do I need to drill in new holes to mount the ne wflipper assemblies? (
Yes, you will need new holes for Flash.
Quoted from HeatedCane:If so whats the best way to go about it?
The hole in the playfield where the Flipper Bushing goes through is larger than the Bushing.
You need to center the bushing, then drill the holes.
Before you put the playfield mounting screws into the new flipper base plates, you need to be sure that the Flipper Bushing stays in the center of the playfield hole.
You won't be able to hold it by hand; the force of the screws making new holes will drag the Bushing in some random direction.
You could use 3 shims, 120* apart to center it in the hole, or use a piece of plastic tubing, like I did in this example:
Quoted from Sheprd:I have some plungers that have what looks to be a black coating on them. Is it OK put these in a drill and buff them up with Scotch Bright and polish them with Mother's mag cleaner until they are shiny silver? Is the coating just a build up of the black dust, or an original coating to reduce oxidation?
Probably time to replace your flipper plungers.
Some Bally plungers have a Black Oxide finish when new, but if you can tell that the plunger used to be bright metal, and has oxidized to black, it's easier and cheaper to replace them.
You never know what parts, from what source or brand, the last 10 owners of the game have installed.
A complete flipper rebuild will bring you back to better than new performance, for very little money and time.
Quoted from Starwriter:On WPC era games, Some have white opto interupters and some have black. It seems like all the white ones have a spring steel piece and the black ones do not. Any thoughts on the spring steel piece? Thanks.
The blue steel spring works with either the white or black interrupters.
Some people feel that the black interrupters are more responsive because of the opacity of the plastic compared to the white.
Quoted from goingincirclez:Heh, you might have missed my edit to the post, under the photos: I speculated the same thing, but IIRC those coil stops are integrated to the base. Which means this game got the snot played out of it!
I missed the edit.
If those are the original coil stops they are probably missing 70% of their material.
Quoted from goingincirclez:But you are in agreement then that the link should not be traveling so far in. So what would you do in this case: spring for new bases, or is there a better / more economical option, or is my "hack" passable enough for now?
I'd get the more modern WPC style bases.
REPLACEABLE Coil Stops!
No more crummy, trouble causing, always breaking, Compression Springs!
Cheap $22 rebuilds!
There is no downside to going to the modern bases.
Quoted from goingincirclez:I wonder how "different" Firepower plays with that extra bit of travel? I'm not a veteran of the game; I love it so far but want the most authentic experience.
The extra travel makes the game easier because you can catch the ball easier, and the shots are easier because you get a wider range of motion .
Quoted from HeatedCane:Hey Vid how and what should I do about these screws already going through the playfield? Do I use them? Or remove them?
Remove them.
They are nail screws, so tap them gently up and out.
There will be 3 small holes in the playfield. Touch up any chips in the paint (the holes are under the flipper, so you don't have to do too great of a job). If you were restoring the playfield, you could fill them with Bondo.
Quoted from balzofsteel:You could use them. You would need a spacer between the bracket and playfield so that the bracket doesn't get mashed when you tighten the nuts. The spacer can be made from the old flipper bushing. You may also need new holes in the bracket ...
I've actually seen people reuse them like that, with the cut down bushing!
Quoted from alec_p:What are these flat washers for?
They are used on Bally games between the coil bracket and the coil. You won't need them on a Williams game.
Quoted from alec_p:Secondly- between the three flippers on my earthshaker, one has two diodes on the solenoid, one has one, and the other one has none.
Flippers should be 11630 coils with diodes, upper should be 11722 coil with diodes. 1N4004 diodes, buy 100 of 'em, you need them everywhere in pinball.
Quoted from alec_p:One more follow-up. After some searching, I see that 11722 is supposed to be weaker than 11630. I'm surprised, because I already thought that flipper felt a little weak. So I'd be replacing it with a lower power solenoid (although with a complete rebuild kit, so maybe it's a wash?) Any thoughts there?
The upper should be weaker, or you'll be breaking all the close plastics and targets.
A fresh rebuild will put everything back to factory, so you'll play the game for the first time as Lawlor intended.
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:So, what I learned is that you can't assume that a tight bolt will sufficiently bend the metal in such a way to guarantee a tight grab on the shaft. However, if you make sure the shaft has a snug fit first, then a moderate tightening of the bolt will do the job.
Right, you should not have to crank down crazy tight to hold the flipper.
Dremmel or file the gap so that moderate tightening will hold the shaft:
Quoted from MustangPaul:You could also use grade 8 nuts and bolts, MUCH stronger then the grade 4 (I think that's what the kits come with).
Those kits probably come with grade 0 bolts.
You can break them with a 6" ratchet without even trying.
So if you think to yourself "Wow, I'm really cranking on this and it's still not holding the shaft!" look for another problem.
Quoted from HeatedCane:how much should I dremel out? and how deep? by any chance do you have a photo of it already done? thanks Vid!
That photo tries to show that once you tighten the bolt, you still need clearance between both sides of the clamp.
If the 2 sides of the clamp are touching, no matter how much you tighten the bolt, the pawl will not clamp down any tighter on the flipper shaft.
So depending on the brand of replacement parts, you should still have about 1/16 to 1/8" gap once the bolt is tightened down. If you don't, grind more out of the gap.
Quoted from HeatedCane:Also I'm curious why does it need to be dremelled? how does it help?
Most files are too thick to fit in the gap.
A Dremmel cutting disc is thin enough to get right in.
If you have a file, made for metal, that will fit in the gap; of course you can use that.
Quoted from HeatedCane:So for my upper flipper I should just get the standard flipper rebuild kit instead of upgrading it to fliptronics? Or should I still up grade it and use a different coil?
Upgrade everything, and while you are at it, make sure each of your coils is the correct one.
Quoted from mof:Vid,
What's the best inner diameter of shrink tubing to use to replace the shrink tubing on flipper mechs? 3/8" ?
thx,
-mof
It's different for different models/years.
3/8 should be fine with 50% shrinkage tubing.
Quoted from TheLaw:Vid, Can you please tell me the part number of the - 1 Lever Arm Assy-L for the KT-BFLIP03 rebuild kit if you know it? Had an issue with mine and need to replace it
Thanks!
BLY-A3711-3 is probably what you are looking for
Quoted from pinballinreno:I have just checked my flipper mechs on my WOZ and Hobbit, there is 1/16" or more of slop and the coils move back and forth a bit in the mechs.
I had to elongate the holes in the coil stops to get them to snug up to the coils.
I also had to adjust the EOS switches to have them close closer to the end of travel.Im not sure if others have even looked at their mechs, but mine definitely needed tuning.
Check if the Coil Brackets and Coil Stops are actually 90* and square.
About 40% of the Coil Brackets are not true that I seem to get. You can bend them with 2 pairs of Chanel-Locks, or put them in a vise and hit them with a hammer.
If you have one of these, you can check them both quickly.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Hi Vid! Yes I did check the coils stops with my square and they were ok, I just found it odd that on both my games the coils were not snug.
It's not uncommon.
Everything is made of crap these days.....
Quoted from Lysurgeon:I want to rebuild the flippers on my jungle lord, blackout, and meteor. I bought the kits from Marco, but they look to be missing many parts. What else will I need to get upgraded to the new flipper style?
What kit exactly did you buy?
Quoted from twisty4678:Vid, thanks as always for the tips and repair guides. My hot tip has the wrong flipper coils installed. I ordered the correct coil but the diode arrangement is different. The old coils have two diodes, the new ones have just one. They both appear to be series coils, so did the old owner just add an redundant diode? Can I just use the new coils as is? Thanks!
Page 3 of the schematics show 2 diodes on each coil.
Please do a better soldering job than your predecessor 
.
For Blackout and Jungle Lord you want these:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983&parent=0
and these flipper bushings (2):
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=270&parent=60
and these high voltage switches (2):
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262&parent=58
(depending on your baseplates, you might need these too):
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=259
Then just follow these directions, reusing your existing coils:
-
For Meteor you only need the Nylon Flipper Bushings
Quoted from dzorbas:When I looked at the existing Gorgar flippers, I noticed that the white nylon bushing that guides the flipper shaft through the playfield is held in place with fin shank screws. If I pop out the screws, there will be empty holes on the top side of the playfield.
What do you normally do with them? I was thinking I might be able to put the nuts back on them, trim the excess with my Dremel and hopefully the new mounting plates have enough clearance to go over top of them.
If you ever restore the playfield, just fill them in and touch up the paint (there are pics on how to do this in the thread).
If you are just doing a flipper swap, you can just dremmel them off.
Quoted from Lysurgeon:Ok, so I've followed this guide trying the left flipper first and must have connected the wires wrong, because when I tried to flip, the solenoid fuse blew. I put in a breaker fuse to troubleshoot. I changed up the wires and am pretty sure it is wired correctly now, but nothing happens when I press the flipper button. Could I have blown a coil diode?
Or maybe you blew the driver transistor?
Quoted from Coyote:Yeah, but hell... that would have been one hell of a relay miswiring. Or even one messed up relay.
I was not thinking that the relay necessarily blew up anything, just that when people are messing around, they tend to "somehow" kill the driver transistors.
I assumed that both flippers were dead.....
Sometimes the broken hold coil wire breaks off near enough to the tab to be repaired.
You have to scrape off the red insulation before soldering.
Leave a little slack in the coil wire so it does not break again.
-
Remember to install the solder tabs AWAY from the coil stop = #1 reason the coil wires break.
Quoted from pacman11:Hello Vid1900 - I have a original Black Knight and the flippers are weak. I just cleaned the coil selves and installed new eos switches and the power still seems weak. I checked the gap on the switch and I believe I have it adjusted correctly but still weak flippers. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Jumper the EOS switch closed with an alligator clip.
Press the flipper button (don't hold it).
If the flipper kicks like a mule, the switch is not adjusted properly.
Quoted from Kevlar:Can you explain further please? How would that affect the hold strength?
Sometimes a owner will replace just the plunger, or just the coil stop.
The old plunger and coil stop wore together as a team over the years, so the two parts mated together nicely.
A new plunger with it's square, flat bottom, will often not mate up with an old worn coil stop (or vice versa); so the two pieces only touch in a small area. This makes for a weak hold.
You can also see this effect when the incorrect coil stop is used and the plunger link bottoms out against the coil sleeve, instead of the coil stop. The plunger is fully plunged (over-plunged really), yet the hold is weak.
I see the above all the time, when some hack did "whatever it takes to keep the game earning".....
Quoted from mollyspub:vid... im sure the answer to this question is in here somewhere but... what do i need to do to upgrade my FUNHOUSE flippers ( has springs) to match what i have on my TOTAN ( no springs and feel much snappier ) ?
Post a focused, well lit picture
Quoted from dzorbas:I did a flipper rebuild a few months ago on my Firepower and I replaced everything with new mechs from Pinball Life. A few days ago I noticed a loud buzz/hum coming from the right flipper only. It happens intermittently and only when the flipper button is held in. I looked back through this thread and found someone else that experienced something similar and you told him to check the play in the coils and that everything was tight.
Sometimes the buzzing is when the coil plunger does not mate flush with the coil stop.
Swap the L and R coil stops, make sure they are tight to the coils, and report back.
Quoted from UvulaBob:I don't have a punch tool, so I'd need to buy one. How exact do the measurements need to be? I'd hate for the spring to be too slack or tight because I screwed something up.
Not exact at all, but it's good practice to start being very exact with all your measurements.
Then when it actually matters, you will be ready to take the challenge.
Quoted from UvulaBob:But is Vid suggesting that every pinball machine ever manufactured Did It Wrong when it came to designing and implementing how these coils were to be installed? Is that what he means by "backwards"?
They fixed it near the end, but for many years coils were installed backwards at the factory.
-
Manufacturers do things wrong all the time, and don't bother to fix the problem for decades.
Think of all the unfused rectifiers in System3-11 games that literally caught the pin on fire.
Think of all the pickup trucks that used to have the fuel tank behind the seat (actually in the cab) so if you got in a collision, the interior of the cab got drenched in gas. GM kept making these until almost 1980.
Think of all the guitar amps from the 1950-1980s that had the "death cap" that would electrocute the player the moment it failed.
Quoted from xeneize:Sigh...of course, AFTER previewing the photos in one sequence and authoring my post, Pinside reversed the order of photos when I officially submitted my content...but I think you'll get the gist.
No problem, I see the problem(s).
Problem#1: You are using a 2nd bushing as a spacer, and you don't need to do that with the WPC baseplate.
Problem#2: You are still using the fin screws, and there is no need for them when you have the WPC baseplate. Remove the fin screws from the playfield completely. The bushing only needs to be mounted to the baseplate.
Problem#3: The baseplate screws are not flush with the back of the playfield. Drill small pilot holes so the screws will sit flush. The flush base will make the bushing poke out of the top of the playfield the correct amount. Otherwise the flipper might drag on the playfield.
Quoted from Plumonium:Hey Vid, I want to install the newer style return spring on my Pinbot flipper base plate but there is nowhere to attach it. The bracket is just big enough for the switches which are installed on both sides.
I may buy newer plates (I'd rather keep the one I have) but is there an alternative? Something that looks legit? Like adding a thin plate sandwiched between the switches where I'd attach the spring?
A new plate probably looks the best, but there are a million ways to skin that cat.
They used to sell a L bracket that replaced the shorter switch bracket, but I've not seen them for sale in years.
Quoted from Friengineer:Hey Vid. I'm having trouble keeping the flipper bats in position on my Kings of Steel. No matter how tight I think the screws in the lever assembly are, the bats seem to move after about 25 games or so. Any suggestions?
Let's see a pic of what mechs you have installed.
Quoted from pinlink:When upgrading old Bally Linear flippers to the non-linear older/better flippers, will I need to get a new base plate or will the one I currently have for my linear flippers work?
Old baseplate will be fine.
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Sana'a
Folsom, CA