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(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

8 years ago



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14 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 2506 posts in this topic. You are on page 24 of 51.
#1151 4 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

Here are pix of both upper & lower switches. Right & left side were identical so I just took the two photos. I think I remember reading that the low voltage switch (with the smaller contacts) on the upper flippers triggers a "shot fired" sound effect, if so then that wouldn't necessarily need to be replaced, right?

No, don't replace the low voltage switch, just clean the contacts with a new $100 bill.

All you need to replace is the EOS Switch part. You can use a Williams one, or call PBR and get the exact Bally replacement.

Don't forget the plastic spacers are needed when you stack switches - you DON'T want to put high voltage down the switch bus.....

#1152 4 years ago

Thanks for the great write-up Vid. I upgraded my Sys 11 flippers this weekend. Everything works great.

#1153 4 years ago

Vid - a flipper question that is more of a button question. I noticed on my Taxi the buttons feel very stiff. Harder to depress them than my WPC games. Is there an easy way to address this? I like the softer feel of my other games and I don't know if there is a spring in the button housing I could change. Or just the switch I am making contact with when I push them in. Is there a way to break the switch in so it gives a little looser play? Any thoughts or insight would be appreciated.

#1154 4 years ago
Quoted from Elicash:

I noticed on my Taxi the buttons feel very stiff. Harder to depress them than my WPC games. Is there an easy way to address this? I like the softer feel of my other games and I don't know if there is a spring in the button housing I could change.

You never know what buttons or springs have been replaced over the years in a pinball machine.

If the buttons you have now are spring loaded, you can cut out part of the coil and make them weaker, or just replace the spring altogether.

Some buttons have a C-clip holding them together, and some you just press the back of the plunger on a table top.

#1155 4 years ago

Yet another question: the early Bally SS ASW-A20-23 EOS switch has a sheet of fishpaper between the two blades. If I replace these with Williams 03-7811 EOS switches (the ones with the "helper" blade), is it necessary to add the fishpaper? There doesn't look to be any possible contact with anything that would require it, and since it's between the two EOS blades it's not going to be insulating any high voltage from the lane change switch.

#1156 4 years ago

You can take the switches apart and put the fish paper in the Williams style EOS Switch yourself.

Bally always instructed us to keep the high voltages off the frames

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/15#post-2235482

#1157 4 years ago

So the fishpaper isn't there to insulate the blades from each other, it's to insulate them from the crank? (which should have a rubber sleeve over the arm that engages the EOS switch anyway)

PS - quick story - my tap & die set came in very handy this weekend. Whoever worked on my Centaur in the past enlarged the holes in the flipper bases for the coil stop screws to #10 size, but did a piss-poor sloppy job of it. I could either have retapped them for 1/4" screws (WAY too big) or....my second option....luckily Bally didn't have right/left hand flipper bases, all the screw holes were drilled symmetrically. So I just tapped all the opposite holes in each plate and turned the left into a right base and vice versa.

#1158 4 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

So the fishpaper isn't there to insulate the blades from each other, it's to insulate them from the crank?

Yes.

Shrink tubing on the crank, and fish paper (or plastic insulator) on the switch.

#1159 4 years ago

Hey Vid, what is the proper EOS gap supposed to be on my WPC "the Getaway"? I'm sure it's probably in this thread somewhere but that's a lot of reading lol.

1 week later
#1160 4 years ago

Hi Vid,
great Information here. I bought a LOTR LE some months ago, which had the strong PBL flipper coils. I have 2 questions:

1. When simply holding balls with one flipper finger (e.g. during multiballs) and/or bringing them into play again by sligthly pushing the flipper button (holding time perhaps 1 minute), it happened 3 times, that the transistor was damaged and the finger was not working any longer. Can this be an effect of holding the finger up for too long or even by the strong coil itself?

2. I replaced the strong coils by weaker ones, but know, when holding the left finger up, the finger goes down a bit when a stronger ball hits the peak of the finger and then the finger reacts and shoots the ball back automatically (everything during holding the button pressed). What is going wrong here? The plunger and the coils should be o.k. Could it be the EOS switches (too wide open?)

I am frustrated a bit due to not knowing how to proceed.

Any feedback regarding these 2 issues is highly appreciated.

Eckhard

#1161 4 years ago

I don't fully understand, did you have the game repaired 3 times? Holding the flipper up will not damage anything unless there is a problem with the flipper drive circuit or coil. The flipper dropping and coming back up is normal. This is why your game has EOS switches.

#1162 4 years ago
Quoted from Zora:

When simply holding balls with one flipper finger (e.g. during multiballs) and/or bringing them into play again by sligthly pushing the flipper button (holding time perhaps 1 minute), it happened 3 times, that the transistor was damaged and the finger was not working any longer. Can this be an effect of holding the finger up for too long or even by the strong coil itself?

Quoted from Zora:

I replaced the strong coils by weaker ones, but know, when holding the left finger up, the finger goes down a bit when a stronger ball hits the peak of the finger and then the finger reacts and shoots the ball back automatically (everything during holding the button pressed). What is going wrong here? The plunger and the coils should be o.k. Could it be the EOS switches (too wide open?)

The EOS switch should open 1/16" when the flipper is fully activated.

The CPU will give a continued pulse to the flipper coil if it detects a momentary closure of the switch from a rebounding ball.

Make sure the EOS switch contacts are clean and gaped correctly.

#1163 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Hey Vid, what is the proper EOS gap supposed to be on my WPC "the Getaway"? I'm sure it's probably in this thread somewhere but that's a lot of reading lol.

Getaway is a FliptronicII system, so the EOS switches are NORMALLY OPEN.

Make sure the switch closes when the flipper is extended.

#1164 4 years ago

Hey Vid, have you ever done rebuilds on Gottlieb flippers? A guide for those would be great!

#1165 4 years ago
Quoted from Ronnie1114:

Hey Vid, have you ever done rebuilds on Gottlieb flippers? A guide for those would be great!

Have you seen the prices for system 3 rebuild kits??

#1166 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Getaway is a FliptronicII system, so the EOS switches are NORMALLY OPEN.
Make sure the switch closes when the flipper is extended

Yes, they are open. Just wondering if there should be a specific gap when they are open?

#1167 4 years ago
Quoted from Ronnie1114:

Hey Vid, have you ever done rebuilds on Gottlieb flippers? A guide for those would be great!

Last time I was out on a Gottlieb flipper repair, I did not have a low light camera with me and the bar was too dark.

Next time for sure.

#1168 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Yes, they are open. Just wondering if there should be a specific gap when they are open?

As long as the switch closes when the flipper is extended, it will work properly.

That is what was good about Flip2, it did not need any exact switch adjustment.

#1169 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

As long as the switch closes when the flipper is extended, it will work properly.

That is what was good about Flip2, it did not need any exact switch adjustment.

Thank you sir !!

#1170 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Have you seen the prices for system 3 rebuild kits??

$23 and change is gonna break the bank??

#1171 4 years ago

Where did you see a Gottlieb DMD rebuild kit for less than $25?

#1173 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

I don't fully understand, did you have the game repaired 3 times? Holding the flipper up will not damage anything unless there is a problem with the flipper drive circuit or coil. The flipper dropping and coming back up is normal. This is why your game has EOS switches.

Yes, the Game was reparier 3 times. The coils are o.k., because I changed the coil and it happened again. How can I Check the flipper Drive circuit? or what Else can I Check to find out the reason for the behaviour? Ist it solely an EOS issue?

Trank you for your assistance.

Eckhard

#1174 4 years ago

That's not a full kit, but pretty good price! Nice find.

Quoted from Zora:

Yes, the Game was reparier 3 times. The coils are o.k., because I changed the coil and it happened again. How can I Check the flipper Drive circuit? or what Else can I Check to find out the reason for the behaviour? Ist it solely an EOS issue?

I'm not familiar with the SAM system unfortunately. This game is notorious for having overheating flipper coils though.

#1175 4 years ago

Vid,
I have 2 questions in regards to converting Bally linear flippers to the previous design. (post #520) First off, this is for a Vector and all 4 flippers. All of the part numbers used will be Pinball Resource numbers.
You recommend Williams #03-7811 EOS switches, but I am concerned that they may not actuate the EOS "form a switch" BLY-ASWA1045+ properly because you have to bend then so much at the end to get 1/8" gap. Would the Bally EOS switch BLY-ASWA2034+ be a better choice in this case, as it appears to have the tentioning leaf and says it is "high current"
Secondly, could you help me out with a few dimensions on the "L" bracket you use for the extension spring. Length of both sides of the L and metal thickness, as well as width would be very helpful. The bend of the bottom of the L should be easy enough for me to figure out. Thanks Vid!

#1176 4 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Would the Bally EOS switch BLY-ASWA2034+ be a better choice in this case, as it appears to have the tentioning leaf and says it is "high current"

That is a fine choice.

Quoted from dozer1:

Secondly, could you help me out with a few dimensions on the "L" bracket you use for the extension spring. Length of both sides of the L and metal thickness, as well as width would be very helpful. The bend of the bottom of the L should be easy enough for me to figure out.

I'm on the road, so I don't have the dimensions with me.

I just used the old linear Pawl and bent the metal so it matched the geometry.

A year ago I had a guy who what going to make a bunch of them in bulk. Maybe he will chime in with where he is on that project.

#1177 4 years ago

Thanks a bunch Vid, order placed today. If that gentleman chimes in on the L bracket that would be great. Otherwise I should be able to do fine off the pic.

#1178 4 years ago

Vid, I'd like to get these for a Williams System 9 machine, Space Shuttle. Will I need new EOS switches for them, and if so which ones??

Thanks!!

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=3732

#1179 4 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Vid, I'd like to get these for a Williams System 9 machine, Space Shuttle. Will I need new EOS switches for them, and if so which ones??
Thanks!!
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=3732

Nope, that's the wrong mech.

Read the first 4 pages of this guide if you want to know why, or just order the stuff below .

You need this mech (get one Left, one Right):

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=172

With the A-12111 coil stop.

With the FL11630 Coil

With this EOS Switch:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262&parent=0 (email Terry to swap it into your mech, because there is no option in the menu).

You will also have to flip the coil around, because PBL mounts them backwards with the solder terminals next to the Coil Stop (a big no-no).

-

Now your Comet will be in pinball flipper heaven.

#1180 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Now your Comet will be in pinball flipper heaven.

No ,I don't have a Comet, this would be for Space Shuttle. Should I still buy the same parts that you listed? Sorry for any confusion

#1181 4 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

No ,I don't have a Comet, this would be for Space Shuttle. Should I still buy the same parts that you listed? Sorry for any confusion

Yep, same parts.

I don't know why I thought Comet, must be getting old

#1182 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yep, same parts.
I don't know why I thought Comet, must be getting old

Excellent!! This is the same exact setup that you recommended and I purchased for my Firepower earlier this year, except with that setup you recommended the SFL-19-400/30-750 coils. What is the difference between these coils and the FL11630 ?

#1183 4 years ago

If you are ever changing coils in a Serial coil game, it is good practice to switch over to newer Parallel coils.

FL24/600-30/2600 Series wound = FL11722 Parallel

FL23/600-30/2600 Series wound = FL11630 Parallel

#1184 4 years ago

How tight should this bolt be tightened? On my Getaway, the upper filler is tight, but the lower two are very loose. I'm not sure how tight to make these. Any tips?

flipper_bolt_(resized).png

#1185 4 years ago
Quoted from steve1515:

How tight should this bolt be tightened?

Not too tight, because if it's tight, the pivot will have resistance and that will give you a weaker flip.

#1186 4 years ago

Just enough to give it a smooth pivot, but not enough to allow play in the link. Vid is there anything you would suggest to prevent or reduce wear on Data East spring extension pawls? These are $5 apiece and the springs keep eating straight through the metal, cutting a groove all the way down the attachment hole until it comes loose.

#1187 4 years ago

Thanks! I tightened it up so that the bolt isn't spinning freely, but so that the metal part isn't squishing the plastic link preventing it from moving freely. Do I have it right?

#1188 4 years ago

Steve1515, I have bought a brand new flipper rebuild kit before where the bushing was not installed in that pivot point. You may want to make sure it is in there. You should be able to snug up that nut and still pivot it freely because that is the bushings job.

#1189 4 years ago

Hmm... Do you have a picture or link to that part? I'm not sure what it should look like. I thought it was just a bolt though the plastic linkage.

#1190 4 years ago

If you still have your old pawl and link, take out that bolt and pull it apart. You will find the bushing in the plastic.

#1191 4 years ago

I've never done a replacement. I was working on something else and I noticed that they were loose. One day I'll work on flippers.

#1192 4 years ago

It's more like a 1/4" metal collar.

#1193 4 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Vid,
I have 2 questions in regards to converting Bally linear flippers to the previous design. (post #520) First off, this is for a Vector and all 4 flippers. All of the part numbers used will be Pinball Resource numbers.
You recommend Williams #03-7811 EOS switches, but I am concerned that they may not actuate the EOS "form a switch" BLY-ASWA1045+ properly because you have to bend then so much at the end to get 1/8" gap. Would the Bally EOS switch BLY-ASWA2034+ be a better choice in this case, as it appears to have the tentioning leaf and says it is "high current"

I recently replaced the EOS switches on my Fathom with the BLY-ASWA2034+ switches from PBR, and they seem to be a better choice than either the original Bally (which lacks a tensioner) or the Williams substitutes, especially in cases where you need to have the BLY-ASWA1045+ transfer switch to engage a second flipper (like on Fathom or Fireball II).

Using those two switches, I now have good strong flippers, both the upper and lower.

Also, the tip of cleaning the contacts of the high voltage switches before installing is important (I used 600 grit sandpaper). Bench testing my setup before installation, I was seeing big resistances on the EOS switch (hundreds to thousands of ohms) but after, only 0.1 ohm.

#1194 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Vid is there anything you would suggest to prevent or reduce wear on Data East spring extension pawls?

That super soft stamped metal is worthless.

All you could do is weld over the hole, then re-drill it.

The weld metal will be 100x harder than the base.

#1195 4 years ago

Hmm, doesn't look original. This came off the upper right flipper. Compared it to a new OEM left flipper extension and the new one has about 1/16" more material from the hole to the edge.

image_(resized).jpg

#1196 4 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

the new one has about 1/16" more material from the hole to the edge.

It needs all the help it can get, so I'd go with the improved part.

#1197 4 years ago

That's the replacement I ordered from Marco, so it's better already than the aftermarket pawl that was on it evidently. Both lower flippers look like the new part.

#1198 4 years ago

I have Whirlwind and the left flipper lost power and times gets stuck or barely fires. I don't know where to start or what to look for. The pin was recently rebuilt if that means anything (not by me). The switch test came up with nothing. Is there something easy I'm missing before I spend a fortune trying to fix it? Any other pics I need to make to help I can. The flipper is squeaky and the last pic shows where it goes fully up from underneath. Signed newbie.

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#1199 4 years ago
Quoted from TBatti:

I have Whirlwind and the left flipper lost power and times gets stuck

Let's start with that.

When the flipper gets stuck, immediately reach down and flip the power switch off.

Does the flipper stay stuck?

#1200 4 years ago

Can't get it to be stuck again. It is working but not with full power.

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