Rebuilding the HGT seen above now. I got capacitors to add to them to prevent arcing, but now I can't find if that was actually recommended here or not. I thought I read it somewhere...

If you would recommend it, any tips on how to install/mount it?

Thanks

Hi! Thanks for the great thread.

Help me out to understand the flipper wiring on my F14. The lower flippers have a dual switch. The upper flippers have the single EOS switch. The lower EOS switch is 'coupled' with a switch that closes at the end of the stroke. I want to upgrade to the WPC style flippers, but not sure what to do with this double switch as the rebuild kits only come with the 'one-way' EOS switch.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

IMG_6259.jpg

Amazing wealth of information .. I love me some snappy ass flippers .. I'm wanting to put more power into my gottlieb cue ball wizards flippers ... Right now , the coils are 25-949's I don't believe those are the right ones..sluggish , non snappy and weak , come to mind .. Hitting the ramp is next to impossible ...vid1900 what's a better coil for this machine ?

Thanks

Should be A-25959

Dude is still gonna nag ya about yer ramp shot.

Do people think the flippers on Cue Ball Wizard are generally underpowered..

I've played a couple besides mine and they all seemed weak ...

Might be just bad CBW luck ..

Here we go Vid, my first flipper rebuild on my space station using all your suggestions with the flipper rebuild kit from pinball life.

image.jpeg

What do you think ? Would a Williams/Bally full flipper kit with base from pinball life work in CBW? I can't see why not..

The rebuild kit for the CBW is about the same cost the whole W/B flipper unit from PBL ..

I would like to do this as well. I replaced all of my CBW's parts including using the shorter System 1 coil stops but I still don't get that Williams flipper feel. Help us vid1900, you're our only hope.

I'm having problems with my HGT rebuild. I put the spacer in and tighten the shaft down and it's pulling the flipper down so tight I can barely get the spacer out. When it's done, the flipper is nearly dragging on the playfield. I'm /thinking/ that the shaft is getting pulled down into the previous grooves from the set screws. I've already tried flipping the lower flippers left/right, but it didn't make a difference (it appears they've already been flipped once due to the gouges.

Is there anything to do other than replace the shafts? The whole thing is in good shape otherwise.

Yeah. Damnit. Thanks.

Steve told me that gottlieb has a more powerful flipper coil.. The 29876..

I would love to be able to put some got snappy will/ball flip in the ol' CBW, I just think the flipper bases might be too big ? Covering up inserts and wires that can't be moved...

I finally got around to looking my flippers. They work OK but I thought them to be a bit weak. The sleeves were very dirty, as expected. The stops mushroomed. The ends of the plungers were damaged, as expected based on the stops. I noticed that the plungers had a flat spot almost the complete length. None of the other flippers on other machines I have rebuilt have this. Is this something unique to Sega machines?

I rebuilt my flippers on my EBD using the suggestion to downgrade. Everything works great, however I have one issue. Sometimes when the ball rolls down the playfield hard enough and hits the flipper in the hold position, it doesn't hold firm. Instead the flipper gives a bit, the EOS closes, flipper pulses and rockets the ball back up the playfield.

This doesn't happen all the time. Just sometimes. I have new coils installed so I know its not the coil. My FG (with the old mechs) hold without any problems.

Do i need a different coil stop than what came in the kit or is there something else I should try?

Thanks. I'll give it a shot when I get a chance.

I fiddled with the coil stop and still had the same problem. I installed the original coil stops and the flippers hold like they should. The coil stops that came with the kit have that indented ring around the center. (http://pbresource.com/rebuildk/kt-bflip-03.jpg)

The existing coil stops are solid. (http://pbresource.com/rebuildk/kt-bflip-04.jpg)

Do I need to buy the other type of coil stops?

The originals weren't in horrible shape but I'd rather use new parts since the rest of the assembly uses new parts.

I got my hands on new flipper bats/shafts for HGT but they are the modern style. This game has the circular set screws, not the pointed ones. Is the groove still a requirement for that style of set screw???

Okay, question -
Why would anyone use the newer coil stops (A-12390) instead of the older A-12111?

As a sample game, my TZ was originally built with the A-12111 pieces. During the recently rebuild, I decided to go ahead and put in the A-12390's.

The travel in the flipper bat is SO limited, I couldn't stand it. Impossible to even catch a ball. I put in new A-12111's, I couldn't stand it. Why go for these 12390 pieces?

Our local parts distributor only holds 12390 in stock and he never heard of 12111. He said 12390 replaced 12111 and everybody were getting 12390 nowadays. He ordered them for me and went for 5$ each instead of 2.50$ for the 12390. Lame...

On TS, the right flipper drops with a delay so it's really hard to make secure passes.
In practice this looks like:
- press the right flipper button = flipper is instantly triggered
- release the right flipper button = after about 0.5 second the flipper drops down

Any clues?

I apologize in advance as I'm sure I read this someplace and can't find it. Rebuilt flippers on High Speed. Occasionally, not often, the right flipper hangs in the "up" position. If you hit the flipper button quickly a couple of times it releases. The last time it happened, I let the ball drain, flipper still up, then turned the machine off and it went down. If I remember what was said before, that indicates an electrical issue. What am I looking for to adjust?

Most likely something with the opto board, have you try cleaning the optos? maybe replacing the interrupter with a black one or it could be the board?

Update: Firepower flipper replacement

I will include pictures when I get home, for the visual. But wanted to get some initial ideas until then....

So I ordered all of the parts recommended, and was able to replace my RIGHT flipper. It is REALLY TIGHT installation, and I had to relocate some of the wires, because I turned around the coils as recommended. The flipper has all new parts, including the base. I wired it up being absolutely sure it matched the existing one. I discarded the original springs and now use the "external" one only.

Installed it yesterday along with a new driver board (the old one fried, and I didn't have the time to try an fix it..... )

Turned on the machine, and BAM, I played a number of games. New flipper has more juice for a trip up to the top. HOWEVER.....

Now that same "fixed" flipper is staying "up", about every three times I press the flipper button. The only way it comes back down is by hitting the left flipper button. So it is almost like current is "hanging around". The coil is NOT getting hot, so I am pretty sure it is wired correctly. I wish I didn't have to change as many things that I did, however there was no driver board available, I had to use my new one.

Any initial ideas on what to check for on the "stuck up" flipper? Again I will post pics when I get home.

As an aside, one of the pop bumpers burnt out, so am looking at "the other guide" to fix that. Excellent resources.

Do you have the proper clearance between the bottom of the flipper bat and the nylon bushing?? I had a flipper sticking up intermittently, and the previous owner did not use a spacing tool when tightening the flipper bat into the mech.

I don't have the spacing tool, but I used a credit card, and cut out a notch. When the machine is not playing it moves freely. Again when the other flipper is initiated, the one that is stuck up comes down. This leads me to believe it may be electronic related.

Well, by the time you posted that, I discovered that one of the pop bumpers was out. So I tore it apart. Burnt up coil, awaiting parts from Marco...... In the mean time, I rebuilt the left flipper. Amazing how easy it is, when you pre wire everything. Trying to solder under the playfield is a nightmare even when the access is easy.

Learn I do, each and every time. I will report back if the flipper stays stuck up again after I put humpty dumpty back together again.

Vid what is your opinion on Data East flipper coils and replacing sleeves? It seems I have always have issues with these coils being tight and causing sleeves to get stuck. Today I tried two different coils with new sleeves. I had a heck of a time getting them in and once I got them fitted the plunger, which is new, kept getting stuck in a ridge that had formed in the sleeve. These are the ones with two narrow labels on top and bottom. Do you think these are original or replacement coils? Mine were several years old sitting in a box.

I actually tried that yesterday and the right flipper dropped down instantly.
So it's something with electronics...
I swithced flipper opto boards - same thing.
Put EOS switch pads closer - the same.

Noticed that if you press it really quickly it drops down instantly. But it you keep it up for a long time.. like 10 seconds and more it takes more time to return back down!
And one more thing.. the right side has two flippers. If I'm operating with the "second half press" of the switch, to only trigger the bottom right flipper it drops instantly.

Good deal. What should we check for?

I bought a few new coils from Steve Young. I'm interested in seeing if the problem persists with these and if it does I will try that.

Fixed it!
It was plastic around right flipper's opto board that moves when you press the button. It was standing out for 1mm unaligned with the optos on the board. When the flipper switch was pressed and returned back to orginal position this plastic vibrates like a pendulum and one end of it was opening the opto enough to keep the current coming to the right flipper for about half a second until the vibration was low enough so the switch stayed closed.
Simple bend helped fixing this problem so now plastic is aligned and the vibration is not opening the switch any more.

My Data East flipper coils from PBR came in today. Absolutely no problems with sleeve fit on the new ones.

Well both coils have been used extensively on location so maybe over time this could be what has caused it.

Vid, I want to ask you about early Bally SS coil stops, since I need to order a bunch. Below are three that are available from Marco and PBR. After doing a little research, the part numbers all seem to be interchangeable with each other. Every coil stop I've ever used has looked like the Marco unit, with a solid metal cylinder. The PBR unit on the right is noted on his site as "enhanced", and the cylinder looks to be assembled from several different parts. How well does this hold up over time? His early Bally SS rebuild kit and his linear kit show two different stops, but in comparing those already in my Centaur and Space Invaders, I see no difference between the two. Is there an advantage to one over the other? I'm leaning towards the Marco stop, just want to make sure I get whichever will hold up best over time.

While I have your ear: I also need to get new EOS switches for the four flips in Space Invaders. I see multiple switches in each stack but find no info or part numbers in the manual or Planetary's 1980 parts book. I'm sure you must have rebuilt an SI in the past, can you tell me what the part numbers are?

I also have two EOS switches left over from a Firepower rebuild kit, with the "helper" blade. I need to replace the EOS's in my Centaur also, are these the high voltage switches that you had previously mentioned using instead of the standard Bally switch?

ballycoilstops.jpg

That's the thing, I've no idea which switches I need. No reference to them in the Space Invaders manual, and the online 1980 Bally Parts manual at Planetary only shows the simpler EOS for a single flipper setup, which doesn't look like any of the switches in SI.

Here are pix of both upper & lower switches. Right & left side were identical so I just took the two photos. I think I remember reading that the low voltage switch (with the smaller contacts) on the upper flippers triggers a "shot fired" sound effect, if so then that wouldn't necessarily need to be replaced, right?

lower.jpg

upper.jpg