(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers

By vid1900

9 years ago


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There are 2684 posts in this topic. You are on page 19 of 54.
#901 6 years ago

quick question:
I know that this thread is dedicated to flippers, but wouldn't the orientation of the coil (not butting the diodes up against the coil) apply to all assemblies that contain coils with diodes?

case and point, 2 examples from creature from the black lagoon and revenge from mars (direct from the manual pages) where the orientation is backwards
cftbl - jet bumper coil assy.jpg

cftbl - outhole kicker assy.jpg

rfm - kicker assy.jpg

rfm - skip ramp assy.jpg

#902 6 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

I know that this thread is dedicated to flippers, but wouldn't the orientation of the coil (not butting the diodes up against the coil) apply to all assemblies that contain coils with diodes?

Those coils are not as powerful as the flipper coils.

Classic Bally games are often assembled from the factory with the diode away from the coil stop.

#903 6 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

When tightening flipper bats with my trusty Allen wrench, how tight do I want it? The reason I ask is because I bought a new flipper bat for my classic stern and I think I tightened it too much because it made a groove in the bat that was just so, and it caused the flipper to not swing freely eventually and the back of the linkage started to slip below the backstop of the flipper bracket. Hope that makes sense. Haha

You need to make them really tight or they will slip.

Bats and clamps are all standard wear/replacement parts.

#904 6 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

My Diner flipper switches (inside cabinet) are very worn, the contacts are always all gone. I'm wondering if I should replace them since they still seem to be working fine.
When those need replacing? When not working at all? Could it improve something or it's binary, working or not-working?

I can take pictures tonight if it helps.

#905 6 years ago

I need to rebuild flippers on a Space Mission - is it possible to upgrade these the same way you describe for early williams SS machines, or do i just need to grab the historically accurate kit from PBR?

#906 6 years ago

Question on my HS:

I have mismatched coils so I'm buying a fresh pair of coils for my flipper rebuild. PBL has these:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=155

The manual says the flipper coils are: FL 23/600-30/2600-50VDC. That link above says "SFL". What does the "S" mean and are they safe to use in my HS?

#907 6 years ago

Had a cracked flipper bat on my WCS, so I decided to replace the whole flipper assemblies for both flippers. Pretty straightforward, but this post helped me every step of the way. Now I can actually hit the right ramp!

Thanks!

IMG_7592.JPGIMG_7590.JPG

#908 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Games made from 02/1992 to 04/1993 have longer flipper travel:
=========================================================
Games made from 08/1993 to 10/1998 have shorter flipper travel:

My Diner had one flipper assy replaced with the newer style with return spring (it has the return spring bracket on). The other one is still the old style with spring over. I want to upgrade the old one but I'm hesitant to find out which style to order. Or simply order an old style plunger and add sprint bracket?

My only concern at this point, considering the information you gave above, is to have the same travel on both flippers.

What to do? How to I check which version exactly is already in?

#909 6 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

When tightening flipper bats with my trusty Allen wrench, how tight do I want it? The reason I ask is because I bought a new flipper bat for my classic stern and I think I tightened it too much because it made a groove in the bat that was just so, and it caused the flipper to not swing freely eventually and the back of the linkage started to slip below the backstop of the flipper bracket. Hope that makes sense. Haha

chuck:
I had the same issue with the linkage slipping below the stop of one flipper. I ended up removing that stop and slipping a pair of washers under it.

prior to "wrenching" on the allen screws, make sure that you have set your gap between the bottom of the flipper and playfield. my neighbor and I found that when using old flipper bats (those that already had a groove in the bat), the allen screws tended to want to migrate back to those depressions which eliminated the gap and caused the linkage to somewhat bind. sliding a credit card between the bottom of the bat and the playfield will ensure that you maintain some sort of gap to eliminate the potential binding.

as far as the stops go on the flipper brackets, mine were from pinball life as well. I wonder if terry's supplier got a little cheap on the materials and subsequently the height of the stop is about 1-2mm shorter than it really should be.

#910 6 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

chuck:
I had the same issue with the linkage slipping below the stop of one flipper. I ended up removing that stop and slipping a pair of washers under it.
prior to "wrenching" on the allen screws, make sure that you have set your gap between the bottom of the flipper and playfield. my neighbor and I found that when using old flipper bats (those that already had a groove in the bat), the allen screws tended to want to migrate back to those depressions which eliminated the gap and caused the linkage to somewhat bind. sliding a credit card between the bottom of the bat and the playfield will ensure that you maintain some sort of gap to eliminate the potential binding.
as far as the stops go on the flipper brackets, mine were from pinball life as well. I wonder if terry's supplier got a little cheap on the materials and subsequently the height of the stop is about 1-2mm shorter than it really should be.

Exactly what I was looking for. Great ideas dude. I will try this.

#911 6 years ago

Has anyone done a how to like this for Williams systems 3-6?? I need to do a rebuild on a system 6 machine.

#912 6 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Has anyone done a how to like this for Williams systems 3-6?? I need to do a rebuild on a system 6 machine.

This is where vid covers it in this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773606

#913 6 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

My only concern at this point, considering the information you gave above, is to have the same travel on both flippers.

There is no telling what someone else has done to the game over the last 30 years.

Worn parts, wrong parts, Gottlieb parts....it's usually a mess.

Just rebuild both flippers at the same time, with the same parts.

Thus travel with be identical.

#914 6 years ago

I read completely through all 19 pages and completely missed it lol. Thank you sir!!

#915 6 years ago

Upgrading EM flippers, is it possible?

#916 6 years ago
Quoted from brandsilence:

Upgrading EM flippers, is it possible?

Sure.

You can put new mechs in, or rebuild the old ones with a kit from PBR.

#917 6 years ago

Hey everyone, hoping you guys and gals can help me with my new to me Firepower.

I bought the PBR 05 "Complete" flipper rebuild kit. Seemed pretty straight forward. I did NOT remove the mounting plate from the bottom of the playfield, as I felt I could do the replacement without doing that..... These are the one piece kind with attached stops, only removable part is the coil bracket.
-New coil sleeve in the coil. a bit tight.
-New Crank & Link assembly and rubber stop.
-New return spring.
-New bushing.
-New flipper bat.

So despite the difficulty of assembling it with the mounting plate still attached, I got it all together. Everything seemed to fit and move freely, but.......... Two things appear to be amiss.

When I went to tighten the flipper bat holding nut, the entire crank, link, and plunger assembly stopped moving freely to the point it would hard move into the coil. Loosen it again, no friction. I cannot tell if the friction is on the bushing or within the coil sleeve. Also, the coil sleeve is not in any way floating in the bracket.
Flipper1.jpg
The other issue, is that the plunger does NOT reach the the stop. It also does not appear that the bat gets full motion. It appears that the part that I replaced, was squared off to allow that to happen.
flipper_mech.jpg
So here are my questions:

-Causes of the friction? Should I take the entire flipper assembly including the mounting plate, and build it from there?
-Should I just bite the bullet, and get new mounting plates? So as everything is new?
-What should be done with the different sized link? Should I shave down the edges to make it touch the coil stop?

Any other suggestions? Happy to take more pictures and go through any suggested actions.

#918 6 years ago

What game are you rebuilding?

#919 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

What game are you rebuilding?

Firepower.

#920 6 years ago
Quoted from Keetur:

-Should I just bite the bullet, and get new mounting plates? So as everything is new?

Yes, actually.

Your coil stop is so worn down that the plunger can not reach it.

That was a serious design flaw with the sys6&7 transition flipper plates.

BUT, you don't want to build the same junky system again!

This time order these plates (left and right):

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=259

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=260

Order 2 of these springs:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=306

Order 2 of these coil stops:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=273

Order 2 of these EOS Switches:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262

Order 4 of these screws:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=238

Order 4 of these washers:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=239

Now go back to page 1 and assemble yourself some great flippers (Spin your coil around too, it is backwards in your pic):

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers

#921 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yes, actually.
Your coil stop is so worn down that the plunger can not reach it.
That was a serious design flaw with the sys6&7 transition flipper plates.
BUT, you don't want to build the same junky system again!
This time order these plates (left and right):
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=259
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=260
Order 2 of these springs:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=306
Order 2 of these coil stops:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=273
Order 2 of these EOS Switches:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262
Order 4 of these screws:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=238
Order 4 of these washers:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=239
Now go back to page 1 and assemble yourself some great flippers (Spin your coil around too, it is backwards in the pic):
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers

Ohhhhhh this is excellent!! So glad that I am following this post!! I too am planning to rebuild my Firepower flippers. Vid, any chance that you could give me a full list of links for every single part that you recommend I would need to order to do the full rebuild?? I thought of just buying one of the widely available rebuild kits, but I knew you would know what would work best for Firepower. Many, Many thanks in advance!!!

#922 6 years ago

On my Raven, I need to use a punch to remove a roll pin. Can the pin be reused, or will I need to replace it?

#923 6 years ago
Quoted from Topher5000:

On my Raven, I need to use a punch to remove a roll pin. Can the pin be reused, or will I need to replace it?

The pin can indeed be reused.

#924 6 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Ohhhhhh this is excellent!! So glad that I am following this post!! I too am planning to rebuild my Firepower flippers. Vid, any chance that you could give me a full list of links for every single part that you recommend I would need to order to do the full rebuild?? I thought of just buying one of the widely available rebuild kits, but I knew you would know what would work best for Firepower. Many, Many thanks in advance!!!

You actually have an easier job ordering, because you don't have any parts from the PBR kit to recycle.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773606

When you get your mechs, remember to reverse the coils so the wire lugs are away from the coil stop, because PBL always puts them together backwards for some reason.

#925 6 years ago
Quoted from pinballYeti:

Question on my HS:
I have mismatched coils so I'm buying a fresh pair of coils for my flipper rebuild. PBL has these:
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=155
The manual says the flipper coils are: FL 23/600-30/2600-50VDC. That link above says "SFL". What does the "S" mean and are they safe to use in my HS?

Unlike the last few questions where we needed to convert to a full sized 28v coil, you are already in the 50v big leagues.

You old coils are Series wound, so we want replace those with newer Parallel wound coils whenever they kick the bucket.

A new Parallel FL-11630 is the same power as your old Series FL-23/600 so get two of those:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=8

And because you are now Parallel, you can add the EOS Switch capacitor and make the switch last longer:

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=177

#926 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You actually have an easier job ordering, because you don't have any parts from the PBR kit to recycle.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-upgradingrebuilding-flippers/page/3#post-773606
When you get your mechs, remember to reverse the coils so the wire lugs are away from the coil stop, because PBL always puts them together backwards for some reason.

So outside of needing the PL assembly, SFL 19/400 - 30/750 coil, and High voltage EOS switch, will I need anything else to complete the swap?

#927 6 years ago

Nothing I can think of.

#928 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Nothing I can think of.

Excellent!! Now, does the PL assembly mount using the existing screw holes that the original used, enabling it to just bolt right in, or will I need to make all new holes?

#929 6 years ago

Should fit right in.

#930 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Should fit right in.

Awesome I can't wait thanks again Vid!!

#931 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Should fit right in.

Oh and one more thing that I had forgotten completely. Which coil stop do I ask for , 12390,12111, or 10821?

#932 6 years ago

A-12111

#933 6 years ago
Quoted from Keetur:

Hey everyone, hoping you guys and gals can help me with my new to me Firepower.
I bought the PBR 05 "Complete" flipper rebuild kit. Seemed pretty straight forward. I did NOT remove the mounting plate from the bottom of the playfield, as I felt I could do the replacement without doing that..... These are the one piece kind with attached stops, only removable part is the coil bracket.
-New coil sleeve in the coil. a bit tight.
-New Crank & Link assembly and rubber stop.
-New return spring.
-New bushing.
-New flipper bat.
So despite the difficulty of assembling it with the mounting plate still attached, I got it all together. Everything seemed to fit and move freely, but.......... Two things appear to be amiss.
When I went to tighten the flipper bat holding nut, the entire crank, link, and plunger assembly stopped moving freely to the point it would hard move into the coil. Loosen it again, no friction. I cannot tell if the friction is on the bushing or within the coil sleeve. Also, the coil sleeve is not in any way floating in the bracket.
Flipper1.jpg
The other issue, is that the plunger does NOT reach the the stop. It also does not appear that the bat gets full motion. It appears that the part that I replaced, was squared off to allow that to happen.
flipper_mech.jpg
So here are my questions:
-Causes of the friction? Should I take the entire flipper assembly including the mounting plate, and build it from there?
-Should I just bite the bullet, and get new mounting plates? So as everything is new?
-What should be done with the different sized link? Should I shave down the edges to make it touch the coil stop?
Any other suggestions? Happy to take more pictures and go through any suggested actions.

I had the same problem with my Firepower not quite hitting the coil stop even with the new style mechs. The problem was the shape of the flipper link. I cut my link which was like your new one that you have pictured. The original link looks like this one on PBL's website.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=672

Jack

1 week later
#934 6 years ago
Quoted from J_Cutler:

I had the same problem with my Firepower not quite hitting the coil stop even with the new style mechs. The problem was the shape of the flipper link. I cut my link which was like your new one that you have pictured. The original link looks like this one on PBL's website.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=672
Jack

Hey Jack,

Using the parts from PBR, and PBL, I was able to get a good assembly. Hits the coil stop with a fraction of space left to move. I actually rebuilt them on the bench, going to ask about connectors in a moment. VID1900 encouraged me use 'all new' and I did, and seems to fit together nicely. Will report back to everyone once I have them together.

#935 6 years ago

One last question about the Firepower mini thread I started. All of the switches I rec'd from PBL, have dents on the connector portion. These dents appear to be used for a slide on connector, vs just soldering the wire. Are connectors recommended? If so I will procure some at Home Depot. I would imagine this would make servicing the coil easier. Any thoughts one way or another?

flipper_connectors.jpg

#936 6 years ago

That's a high vibration location, so I'd recommend soldering those connections.

#937 6 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

So outside of needing the PL assembly, SFL 19/400 - 30/750 coil, and High voltage EOS switch, will I need anything else to complete the swap?

I'm trying to find the EOS switches on the site so I can place the order but don't see them. Is this something that I need to request over the phone?

#938 6 years ago

Vid,
Will you do an addition about Gottlieb 80-80B flippers?

#939 6 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

I'm trying to find the EOS switches on the site so I can place the order but don't see them. Is this something that I need to request over the phone?

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=262

#940 6 years ago
Quoted from L_satan:

Vid,
Will you do an addition about Gottlieb 80-80B flippers?

Yes.

Next time I rebuild one for a client, I'll make up a new section of the guide.

#941 6 years ago

Excellent!!! How many will I need? Edit: Nevermind, I only need two it looks like

#942 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yes.
Next time I rebuild one for a client, I'll make up a new section of the guide.

Awesome!
Thank you so much, Vid!

#943 6 years ago

Hello Vid, I just rebuilt my WH20 flippers. All seemed fine, but after a couple of games I got an error message to check EOS. I readjusted them a little and that seemed to clear the error. But during flipper test mode am having an issue: When I do the 'Hold' test, the left flipper will not raise up and hold. I can hear a little electrical pulse, but does not raise. When I help it by manually pushing it up, it will then hold.

Does this mean I don't have the EOS adjusted correctly?

One final issue I noticed is that the heat shrink rubber (that covers the contact point between the EOS and the pawl) doesn't quite go high enough and there is a little metal to metal contact when the flipper goes through its stroke. Is this an issue?

Thanks for the help.

#944 6 years ago

WH2O is a Fliptronic II game, so the EOS is CLOSED at the end of the stroke.

You can just use a little piece of shrink tubing to fix that arm. Did your rebuild kit not come with a new one?

#945 6 years ago

Working on my FH flippers today. I noticed on the right flipper the capacitor wasn't connected on one side. The wire was broken off. I'm assuming this flipper should be wired just like the other two?
20150713_112321.jpg

#946 6 years ago

Solder the new cap across the EOS Switch terminals.

#947 6 years ago

Hey, Vid...should I replace the diodes during a flipper rebuild? Sorry if this has been asked and answered.

#948 6 years ago
Quoted from beelzeboob:

Hey, Vid...should I replace the diodes during a flipper rebuild? Sorry if this has been asked and answered.

I never do unless they are cracked.

#949 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

WH2O is a Fliptronic II game, so the EOS is CLOSED at the end of the stroke.
You can just use a little piece of shrink tubing to fix that arm. Did your rebuild kit not come with a new one?

Thanks Vid. Actually, did have the shrink tubing on the arm, just contacted EOS in a funny way. I ended up re-heating some new shrink tubing that extended a longer way up the arm so as to eliminate metal contact..

EOS was in fact installed to be CLOSED at end of stroke, but I guess it just needed an adjustment as I have cleared the credit dot.

My main issue was that FLIPPER HOLD test in the menu. I read somewhere else on Pinside it is relatively normal for the flipper to not raise itself up during that test, and as long as it would stay up and "held" in position, then the switch is working correctly. Does that sound right?

Either way, flippers feel fantastic! This was a really fun project for this Noob and I really appreciate this thread. Thanks Vid. What a thrill to make my 22 year old game play like it is factory fresh!

#950 6 years ago
Quoted from aobrien5:

Just wanted to update that things are good now. Bending the leaf in with the tool fixed it up. Amazing how much more powerful the flippers are now, too! The old parts weren't in that bad of condition, but they weren't all the right parts!

Just wanted to update again. The slow flipper problem kept coming back no matter how much tension I put on the EOS. It appears to have been solved once and for all by cleaning the cabinet switches!

There are 2684 posts in this topic. You are on page 19 of 54.

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