(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

7 years ago



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There are 2376 posts in this topic. You are on page 14 of 48.
#651 5 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

I'm rebuilding a set of Data East flips right now for a Simpsons. I assume that the bats should be tightened on with a shim tool between them and the tops of the bushing, just like a Williams pin?

Yep, flippers need a little bit of room to function.

#652 5 years ago
Quoted from Geocab:

I rebuilt my Getaway flippers 2 days ago. All new parts, even the coils, except the bats and base. After the rebuild, I could backhand the Supercharger ramp from the left flipper from a cradle with ease. The right flipper would really send the ball flying around the left loop.
Now, two days later, I can no longer backhand the ramp and the right flipper isn't as powerful either, except it's better than before the rebuild.
I have the EOS gap set to close at the last moment, 1/16" gap on the bat so it's not rubbing on the bushing.
What would cause the flippers to be so powerful at first, and then lose power a couple of days later?

I have a similar weird thing when I got my Getaway. One of the coils for the lower flipper was wrong, so I replaced it with a new 11629. I rebuilt the flippers (including bushings) a few years ago, and there was an improvement, but I remember it being a small improvement. The lower right flipper went from being able to send the ball around the back loop and up the ramp 1 time in 25 (good shots) to 1 time in 5 (good shots). When I say "good shots", I mean the aim was perfect or close enough, but the ball ran out of energy trying to go up the ramp. Over a few months that seemed to get worse, like 1 time in 10. (Fortunately the upper flipper has plenty of power so the game was still largely playable.)

Last year I completely tore her down, cleaning or replacing everything, waxing the playfield, making sure there was nothing out of place that could be causing the ball to slow down, and I remember things were SLIGHTLY better, maybe back to 1 time in 5. I measured the coil voltages with and without the flipper energized and they were in spec. I even used my oscilloscope to see how much ripple there was (that would indicate a bad bridge rectifier or electrolytic filter caps), but that looked fine, too.

So yesterday I rebuilt the flippers again - brand new kit, new bushings, I even replaced a lot of the assembly's screws that that were worn/slightly stripped. I definitely have more power now - I'm getting occasional airballs from both flippers which I never had before - and I can make the long ramp ball lock shot almost every time now...but the ball still seems slow - it makes it up the ramp and into Donut Heaven, but it doesn't seem to have anywhere near the satisfying speed I see with my AFM (which uses the same 11629/fliptronics mechanism).

Angle's right around 6.5 degrees. Any ideas? Maybe this is less a flipper problem and more some sort of a Getaway quirk...

#653 5 years ago

Check your EOS again and make sure it MAKES CONTACT at the very end of the flipper stroke.

Look at the back of the Fliptronics board and see if you have any cracked solder joints on the header pins.

Clean the opto slots with a Q-tip.

#654 5 years ago
Quoted from jibmums:

I'm rebuilding a set of Data East flips right now for a Simpsons. I assume that the bats should be tightened on with a shim tool between them and the tops of the bushing, just like a Williams pin?

Yepper...

1 month later
#655 4 years ago

Before I do my first flipper rebuild, looking for some clarification on this suggestion, Vid. Are you saying that the gap between the crank and the bushing should be identical to the gap between the bat and the playfield (.7)? You say "between the flipper and the bushing" but above the playfield, of course the playfield will be between the bat and the bushing? Probably a silly question, but would like to be confident on this.

Quoted from vid1900:

I'm showing the Gap Tool on the Flipper Bushing NOT installed in the playfield, just for clarity.
I can hear some of you moaning that you did not get a tool with your game. Lucky for us, most credit cards are about .7mm thick. Cut a notch in your card and make your own. Don't cut through the magnetic strip or the embossed numbers, if you ever want to use the card again.
The original Williams instructions show the tool being used between the Crank and the Flipper Bushing. It is much easier to put the tool above the playfield, between the Flipper and the Bushing. That way the tool is far from the under playfield clutter. If it is your first time adjusting flippers, you can rubber-band the tool to the flipper so you don't have to worry about it falling off.

GAP.jpg 30 KB

Gap_Instr.jpg 85 KB

#656 4 years ago

WestOfRome, even though the bushing is mounted below the playfield, the top of the bushing extends above the playfield, so Vid is indeed talking about the gap between the bottom of the flipper and the top of the bushing, both of which are above the playfield. The gap should be about the thickness of a standard plastic credit card, which can be used above the playfield to "gap" the flipper when tightening in its final position. If you are doing this yourself without an assistant, you will be holding the flipper and the credit card underneath it with one hand above the playfield, and tightening the screw on the flipper shaft with your other hand below the playfield.

#657 4 years ago

Got it, thanks!

2 weeks later
#658 4 years ago

Can you use a twist-tie to hold the yellow capacitor in place??

#659 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Can you use a twist-tie to hold the yellow capacitor in place??

I wouldn't. The vibrations could shake it loose. Use a zip tie. You can get a whole bag of them at dollar stores sometimes, and if not, any hardware store carries them.

#660 4 years ago

I used this guide to swap out my Black Knight flippers last weekend from the plates up. I'm learning. Thanks Vid, Haans, WayOut, and you other folks for the education.

#661 4 years ago

Vid.

I've been looking carefully at the flipper assemblies in few 1980-1981 Williams games lately.

I'm wondering if the flipper grommets belong in those games? I added them to a Firepower, and noticed the range of arm swing is much less to the point that I can't make backhands -- but it makes trapping the ball much more difficult (pros and cons)

Any hard and fast rules as to when the black grommets get introduced to Williams games?

thanks,
mof

#662 4 years ago

Mof,
i asked vid a similar Q about the black rubber stops in my BK few pages back, i noticed they were not fitted, i throw some in & it played terrible, i believe they were not fitted from factory, A factory diagram would be very helpful

#663 4 years ago

The stops are in the service diagram, but obviously that does not mean that every (any?) game went out the door with them installed.

Here is a NIB BK picture and it does not look like the stops are present (although they could have dry rotted out....).

BK-NIB-under-ply4.jpg

#664 4 years ago

One of the terminals on my flipper's capacitor seems loose (slides back and forth inside the yellow casing) - is this a problem? Can I put a dot of glue against the wire/capacitor body to keep it steady?

#665 4 years ago

The cap is such an inexpensive part, just buy a new one next time you have an order.

#666 4 years ago

I will, this one is brand-new though so that's what got me wondering......?........is there play in these?

#667 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The stops are in the service diagram, but obviously that does not mean that every (any?) game went out the door with them installed.
Here is a NIB BK picture and it does not look like the stops are present (although they could have dry rotted out....).

Does that mean that they weren't introduced in a specific year, and we should expect to see them after a specific date?

Just wondering what patterns you've noticed around these grommets existing in a game. I realize as the operator I can try with/without and make my own decisions. Just wanted to see if any rule of thumb existed on these.

-mof

#668 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Does that mean that they weren't introduced in a specific year, and we should expect to see them after a specific date?

The problem with old machines is that most have been rebuilt 50 times, so who knows?

The rubber stops are in the BK parts diagram, and the holes are there to mount them, but if we don't see them in a NIB unboxing (unless they are dry rotted in the bottom of the cab), it's your call.

#669 4 years ago

Just a wild stab in the dark, If they dry rotted out, bats would have to re aligned..

I just had to try it myself anyway, game was terrible to play with them fitted

#670 4 years ago

Hi guys. Noob owner of a White Water here. Question on the flippers:

Strength of all 3 is good
Position when at rest look good (aligned nicely with return lane)
My issue is when I fire the flippers, the right bat does not have as high of a stroke as the left bat

How do I correct this? Again, brand new here. So thanks for the help.

#671 4 years ago

Could be a few things, but one of your flippers could have an incorrect or worn coil stop.

I'd get a kit and just completely rebuild both lower flipper mechs.

#672 4 years ago

Ok, so not an adjustment issue? A rebuild will be a fun challenge for me. I'm so new to this that I am yet to change a bulb might as well jump right in.

#673 4 years ago
Quoted from Elicash:

Ok, so not an adjustment issue?

No, it's a mechanical problem of some sort.

Pay your $20 and join the ranks of precision flippage.

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983

#674 4 years ago
Quoted from Elicash:

Hi guys. Noob owner of a White Water here. Question on the flippers:
Strength of all 3 is good
Position when at rest look good (aligned nicely with return lane)
My issue is when I fire the flippers, the right bat does not have as high of a stroke as the left bat
How do I correct this? Again, brand new here. So thanks for the help.

You could also have mismatched links on the plungers (as I just discovered was the case on my Judge Dredd).

#675 4 years ago
Quoted from Jeff_PHX_AZ:

So what about the upper flipper in High Speed, would it benefit with a spring upgrade? So Iam gonna get the rebuild kit that you linked for the flippers, gonna get the high voltage EOS switches you linked, the brackets as well you linked for High Speed. I decided not to do the capacitors, only because the type of coil on High Speed dont require it. The EOS is no big deal to clean. So is my list of things to get sound? Thanks

So vid,
I am getting ready to put an order together for high speed. I've seen that you said to get the kit, new plates, high voltage eos, and the capacitor. The quote above said he didn't do the capacitor. Is it needed? Do I need a different coil? And how would I add it to the existing coil?

#676 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

The quote above said he didn't do the capacitor. Is it needed?

High speed is too old to need the capacitor.

Quoted from Bax1:

Do I need a different coil?

Check the manual and make sure both of your coils are the correct ones.

#677 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

High Speed is too old to need the capacitor.

Hold up, what's the rule of thumb on adding capacitors to Williams flipper assemblies? Do they begin in a certain year or MPU?
-mof

#678 4 years ago

F-14 and latter had the cap.

Although I have seen Sorcerers with a different, black cap installed from the factory. They are mounted to the playfield, next to the flippers.

#679 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

F-14 and latter had the cap..

Can you pls explain why it would be incorrect or disadvantageous to add caps to earlier Williams SS machines?
-mof

#680 4 years ago

So I'm good and don't need them? All I need is the new plate so I can add the spring?

#681 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Can you pls explain why it would be incorrect or disadvantageous to add caps to earlier Williams SS machines?
-mof

Earlier pins had series wound coils, so the cap would not help save the wear on the EOS like it does on the parallel coils.

1 week later
#682 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No, it's a mechanical problem of some sort.
Pay your $20 and join the ranks of precision flippage.
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983

Thanks Vid. About to order the kit you linked to. Should I also buy bushings? Also, will I need the spacing tool? I read a bit about those but don't see for sale on PB Life. Just wanting to make sure I order everything I need.

Thanks,

Brian

#683 4 years ago

Yes bushings.

You can use a credit card if you don't have the spacer tool

#684 4 years ago

Vid,
looking for some info on stern dmd EOS switch gaps, when open what should be the gap size,
thanks

#685 4 years ago

Vid,
Need some help. Just did rebuild on my gorgar last night. When setting the gap, am I measuring between the contacts or the leafs? 2 other questions. What would make one flipper end a little higher than the other? I did make sure that I have proper coils too. One starts with sfl ( the original ) and one was replaced but starts with just sf. Numbers are correct and the same. If I set the flippers wrong I will probably need new bats due to the set pins correct? I did go with the original hardware from pinball life

#686 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

What would make one flipper end a little higher than the other?

The coil stop is different on the two coils, or the plunger is different on the two, or the coil bracket is bent.

You rebuilt the whole mech? Maybe they mixed up the coil stops, or you left one of the old ones in (the side that goes higher).

Post some CLEAR pics.

Quoted from Bax1:

When setting the gap, am I measuring between the contacts or the leafs?

Contacts.

#687 4 years ago

image-501.jpgimage-300.jpgimage-753.jpgimage.jpg

And no that is not my hand. Got my daughter to help. Everything from the pinball life kit is installed. New bushings, plunger assembly, spring, and new eos switch. The orange coil is set to 1/8. I know it doesn't look like it

#688 4 years ago

Just checked the voltage and getting 32vdc at each lug

#689 4 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Can you use a twist-tie to hold the yellow capacitor in place??

Newer rebuild kits from Marco include zipties and new capacitors, as well as both types of return spring, interestingly enough.

#690 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Newer rebuild kits from Marco include zipties and new capacitors, as well as both types of return spring, interestingly enough.

That is interesting. Do they include the spring mounting tab too?

#691 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

And no that is not my hand. Got my daughter to help. Everything from the pinball life kit is installed. New bushings, plunger assembly, spring, and new eos switch. The orange coil is set to 1/8. I know it doesn't look like it

Are you saying the flipper bat itself (on the PF) raises higher on one than the other or just that under the PF the blue one is opening the gap more? That gap is definitely too much so you need to bend the switch to adjust, preferably with a tool such as: http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-SWK-B

Vid of course will have the more expert/trusted opinion (and hassle you for putting the lugs at the coil stop ).

#692 4 years ago

On the plunger? Yes.

#693 4 years ago
Quoted from gtown:

Are you saying the flipper bat itself (on the PF) raises higher on one than the other or just that under the PF the blue one is opening the gap more? That gap is definitely too much so you need to bend the switch to adjust, preferably with a tool such as: http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-SWK-B
Vid of course will have the more expert/trusted opinion (and hassle you for putting the lugs at the coil stop ).

Yes the flipper bat with the blue coil goes up just a tad higher. Both eos switches are at 1/8" at contacts. I am using the leaf adjustment tool from pinball life. As for the lugs by the stop. I will try to flip them but don't think I have long enough wire to.

#694 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

And no that is not my hand.

I was going to say; ya come askin' for help and you can't even touch up your nails???

#695 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

Vid of course will have the more expert/trusted opinion (and hassle you for putting the lugs at the coil stop ).

Man, you guys are good.

#696 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

As for the lugs by the stop. I will try to flip them but don't think I have long enough wire to.

Sometimes you have to snip a nylon zip tie to get some slack.

Then just re-zip it in the final position.

#697 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

Yes the flipper bat with the blue coil goes up just a tad higher.

Although I can't see it clearly in the pic, I'm going to guess that the L shaped bracket-stop that controls the flipper range of motion has been bumped forward on the blue coiled flipper.

Look at the paint on the underside of the playfield and see if you can tell the position that it used to be.

#698 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I was going to say; ya come askin' for help and you can't even touch up your nails???

Funny lmao

#699 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Although I can't see it clearly in the pic, I'm going to guess that the L shaped bracket-stop that controls the flipper range of motion has been bumped forward on the blue coiled flipper.
Look at the paint on the underside of the playfield and see if you can tell the position that it used to be.

Ok will check that out but what else could be causing them to still be weak? I am going to file the flipper switches later tonight. I did notice pitting on them.

#700 4 years ago
Quoted from Bax1:

what else could be causing them to still be weak?

Make the EOS Switch gap a little smaller. In your pics, it looks too large.

Each leaf of the switch much be tensioned so they spring towards each other. If they weakly touch, the flippers will be weak.

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