(Topic ID: 18292)

VID's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers


By vid1900

7 years ago



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#601 4 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

I ordered the kit referenced in the first few posts of this thread;
http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=983&parent=172

You have the correct one.

Quoted from Fifty:

Or is my old one just so worn down that the range is that different?

You would have to hold them together to see how much has worn away.

-

Also, remember that your old ones might not even be Sys11, or the plungers could have been worn, or , or, or.........operators would put anything they had in the bottom of their tool box to keep the game running.

#602 4 years ago

Sweet! Thank you again. I am having a party tonight and wanted the game to be in tip top shape. When I saw the flippers I got concerned. Thanks for alleviating my concerns.

#603 4 years ago

Thanks vid, I just converted my Pinbot to Fliptronic (thanks for the tips, Curbfeeler) and noticed the same thing with reduced flipper travel, and had the same question as FiftyQuid. Now I understand! Great thread, thank you very much.

#604 4 years ago

vid (and everyone), I just finished the 4th flipper on my F-14. If I press and hold the flipper button in it starts machine gunning. The gap is perfect. Exactly like the other 3. Help! The party starts in 3 hours!

#605 4 years ago

You may have soldered the wires back in the wrong order, or maybe a diode is bad.

#606 4 years ago

Thank you very much for the tutorial. I'm gonna need this for all my pins.

Question: is there a reason why only my right flippers become weak?

Second question: I bought my pins from a guy who simply tore off E.O.S. switches. When I asked why he said: "This way flippers are stronger because they have full power till the end, just remember that if you hold the flippers up for a considerable time, you're going to burn the coil"

Do you suggest me to rebuild them?
Thanks

#607 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You may have soldered the wires back in the wrong order, or maybe a diode is bad.

I took photos so I'd remember where everything went. I just took another look and everything is in the proper place. I see the thin red wire of the coil isn't soldered so great. I'm going to try to add some solder to it.

Any other suggestions?

#608 4 years ago
Quoted from JDee:

Question: is there a reason why only my right flippers become weak?

Usually it's the EOS switch.

But, with the power off, move the flipper through it's range of motion and make sure it can smoothly move.

Quoted from JDee:

Second question: I bought my pins from a guy who simply tore off E.O.S. switches. When I asked why he said: "This way flippers are stronger because they have full power till the end, just remember that if you hold the flippers up for a considerable time, you're going to burn the coil"

Do you suggest me to rebuild them?

That guy is an idiot.

Yes, you will need to rebuild them!

#609 4 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

I took photos so I'd remember where everything went. I just took another look and everything is in the proper place. I see the thin red wire of the coil isn't soldered so great. I'm going to try to add some solder to it.

Any other suggestions?

If the coil winding is not making good contact, that will for sure cause machine gunning.

#610 4 years ago

Leave a little slack in the coil winding when you solder it back onto the lug.

If you don't, vibration will break the fine wire.

#611 4 years ago

Hey Vid,
you may have missed my question last page

noticed on my BK all 4 std flipper mechs don't have the black stop rubbers fitted, is this normal, cant seem to find any info

#612 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If the coil winding is not making good contact, that will for sure cause machine gunning.

This was the problem. Everything was working fine. I fired up the game for it's first test. All was good until I started a second game.

Now I have no flippers and switches don't seem to be registering. WTF? Argh….

#613 4 years ago
Quoted from skywalker:

Hey Vid,
you may have missed my question last page
noticed on my BK all 4 std flipper mechs don't have the black stop rubbers fitted, is this normal, cant seem to find any info

BK did come with the black bumper plugs originally, so yours probably dry rotted over the years and fell out.

#614 4 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Now I have no flippers and switches don't seem to be registering. WTF? Argh….

Did you blow the fuse on the flipper board while messing around with everything?

Or worse, did you short the 50+ volts of flipper voltage into the switch matrix????

#615 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Did you blow the fuse on the flipper board while messing around with everything?
Or worse, did you short the 50+ volts of flipper voltage into the switch matrix????

I played a full 3 ball game without any issues. Then I let my son (5 years old) play a game and everything went dead. The pop bumper is working and slings. The VUK, Rescue and all the PF switches are not.

Man… I hope it's not the switch matrix. I will assume it isn't (I will pray it isn't). If it's just a fuse, then why would it have blown? Which fuse is it?

#616 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

BK did come with the black bumper plugs originally, so yours probably dry rotted over the years and fell out.

Thanks Vid

#617 4 years ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Which fuse is it?

There is a little flipper board in the backbox with a 4amp slowblow fuse on it.

#618 4 years ago

Thanks for the help with the system 11 rebuild!

#619 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There is a little flipper board in the backbox with a 4amp slowblow fuse on it.

Checking… would this kill the PF switches too?

[EDIT] Yeah, it's blown. Looking for a spare now. Still wondering why it blew.

#620 4 years ago

Apologies if this was mentioned earlier, I'll admit I haven't read all 13 pages of the comments

When reversing the coils, be aware that in some cases you may end up with wiring that simply no longer reaches. On my PinBot, the wires from the coil to the EOS switch, namely. I've added a roll of 18 gauge wire to my pinball toolbox, but couldn't find blue off the shelf at Radio Shack. A more thorough pinhead would perhaps not settle for this, but my plan is to simply use the wire I have and make a note with blue tape that it is replacing the original blue wires.

#621 4 years ago

I was going to update my PinBot flippers to the Fliptronic springs, but realized that, without a capacitor, the switch mounting tab on the base is too short to act as a mounting point for the spring. Since I already had a system 11 rebuild kit kicking around, I just went ahead and used it, dumb conical springs and all, as I couldn't see my way to shelling out for yet more parts. But I'm curious to know: is it possible to get a replacement mounting tab, or is replacing the entire base the only solution? (short of making one's OWN tab, that is)?

#622 4 years ago

Question from simple curiosity: why a 1/8" space at the EOS switch? None of mine were set that wide before the rebuild (though none of the coils were pointed the "correct" way, either...) I'm not questioning the advice as much as curious.

#623 4 years ago

And lastly (for now): I had assumed that, since I was upgrading the EOS switches anyway, I could simply use the regular switch included in the Pinball Life rebuild kits for the lane change switch. This takes some fidgeting, as you have to take the old switch apart and space the new one correctly, re-using the leaf with the diode and the nylon arm. My game is currently in pieces being shopped out, and it just occurred to me that maybe I should ask here if there's any reason why that *wouldn't* be a good idea. It means taking a "normally closed" switch and bending it with the adjuster tool so that it is now "normally open"; other than that I couldn't imagine why it would create a problem. But...there's a LOT I don't know, so I don't want my little knowledge to lead to a lot of damage...

#624 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Question from simple curiosity: why a 1/8" space at the EOS switch?

If you have more than 1/8" spacing, the flipper will never develop full power.

If you have less than 1/8" spacing, the switch may arc as it gets dirty, burning out the coil.

#625 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

is it possible to get a replacement mounting tab, or is replacing the entire base the only solution?

A whole new base is only $8, so it's not a big money upgrade (and it's very shiny).

They used to sell the mounting bracket for $1.99 (like in this picture), but I don't see them listed anywhere anymore.

Although it looks like garbage, in a pinch, you could just screw the spring to the playfield instead of looping it through a tab.

large.jpg

#626 4 years ago

Hey, Vid. !m stumped !! Ive fully rebuilt the flippers on my F14 (they work amazing) and i just rebuilt the flippers on my space shuttle. The left flipper on the Space Shuttle is driving me nuts!! If you hit the ball just the right way its got power. (towards the tip) but if you hit it say mid flipper its got no balls at all. All the parts are brand new except the coils. Eos is proper gap and clean. Coil is tight on coild stop, (no slop). Everything looks great and tight. Right flipper is good but this damn left flipper has me stumped. The coil looks good and tested proper resistance . Any ideas ?

#627 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

And lastly (for now): I had assumed that, since I was upgrading the EOS switches anyway, I could simply use the regular switch included in the Pinball Life rebuild kits for the lane change switch. This takes some fidgeting, as you have to take the old switch apart and space the new one correctly, re-using the leaf with the diode and the nylon arm. My game is currently in pieces being shopped out, and it just occurred to me that maybe I should ask here if there's any reason why that *wouldn't* be a good idea. It means taking a "normally closed" switch and bending it with the adjuster tool so that it is now "normally open"; other than that I couldn't imagine why it would create a problem. But...there's a LOT I don't know, so I don't want my little knowledge to lead to a lot of damage...

You've got to be careful when messing with the low voltage switches.

If you screw it up and put 50-70 volts through the switch matrix by shorting the two together, you will be VERY unhappy.

#628 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Hey, Vid. !m stumped !! Ive fully rebuilt the flippers on my F14 (they work amazing) and i just rebuilt the flippers on my Space Shuttle. The left flipper on the Space Shuttle is driving me nuts!! If you hit the ball just the right way its got power. (towards the tip) but if you hit it say mid flipper its got no balls at all. All the parts are brand new except the coils. Eos is proper gap and clean. Coil is tight on coild stop, (no slop). Everything looks great and tight. Right flipper is good but this damn left flipper has me stumped. The coil looks good and tested proper resistance . Any ideas ?

It's probably the TENSION of the EOS switch leafs towards each other is too weak .

Jump the EOS switch together with alligator clips and see if you now have kickin power.

#629 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Apologies if this was mentioned earlier, I'll admit I haven't read all 13 pages of the comments
When reversing the coils, be aware that in some cases you may end up with wiring that simply no longer reaches. On my PinBot, the wires from the coil to the EOS switch, namely. I've added a roll of 18 gauge wire to my pinball toolbox, but couldn't find blue off the shelf at Radio Shack. A more thorough pinhead would perhaps not settle for this, but my plan is to simply use the wire I have and make a note with blue tape that it is replacing the original blue wires.

Sometimes you have to cut a few zip ties to make the wires reach the flipped coils.

Make sure you re-zip them so they don't rub on the mechs.

#630 4 years ago

Vid, thanks for the tip on upgrading (or downgrading) my flipper mechs for my Bally EBD. What a difference in gameplay. They came out great. I even told The guy at Pinball resource when he asked what game, I said SPace Invaders, so he wouldn't yell at me. Your knowledge and tutorials are much appreciated on here!

#631 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Jump the EOS switch together with alligator clips and see if you now have kickin power.

Sorry not sure what you mean exactly. If i alligator clip the switch contacts together wont the switch arc out and fry the coil ?

#632 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Sorry not sure what you mean exactly. If i alligator clip the switch contacts together wont the switch arc out and fry the coil ?

There won't be any arcing, because the switch will be jumpered closed by the clips.

You are only going to test the flipper a few times - just don't hold the flipper button in for too long.

#633 4 years ago

oh , ok , i think i get what you mean. Can you confirm this is what you mean in the photo before i turn on the machine?

IMG-20141118-00520.jpg

#634 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

oh , ok , i think i get what you mean. Can you confirm this is what you mean in the photo before i turn on the machine?

Not the best photo, but it looks like you have the EOS jumpered closed from here.

#635 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Not the best photo, but it looks like you have the EOS jumpered closed from here.

It is closed. Thats where it is at rest right ? Is that not how im supposed to do it ?

#636 4 years ago

Newmarket-20141118-00521.jpg

A little clearer hopefully .

#637 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

A little clearer hopefully .

Newmarket-20141118-00521.jpg 110 KB

Looks good, get ready for some kick.

#638 4 years ago

ok, tested it and i dont think i noticed a difference. I did just happen to touch the coil after that test and it was quite warm yet the other flipper coil was not.

#639 4 years ago

"You've got to be careful when messing with the low voltage switches.
If you screw it up and put 50-70 volts through the switch matrix by shorting the two together, you will be VERY unhappy."

I think I know your style well enough to know that if I press the point, you're going to tell me to she'll out $15 for some new lane change switches. I was able to orient the switch stack so that it was (to me) identical to the original arrangement. But if there's even a chance of blowing out the switch matrix, I'll drop the idea.

I was rather hoping to actually *use* the switches my rebuild kit came with. Would be nice if vendors could sell game-specific kits, but alas...

#640 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

"You've got to be careful when messing with the low voltage switches.
If you screw it up and put 50-70 volts through the switch matrix by shorting the two together, you will be VERY unhappy."
I think I know your style well enough to know that if I press the point, you're going to tell me to she'll out $15 for some new lane change switches. I was able to orient the switch stack so that it was (to me) identical to the original arrangement. But if there's even a chance of blowing out the switch matrix, I'll drop the idea.
I was rather hoping to actually *use* the switches my rebuild kit came with. Would be nice if vendors could sell game-specific kits, but alas...

Lane change switches usually last a long time, unlike EOS switches.

Clean them by pulling a crisp $100 bill through the closed contacts and go.

#641 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

ok, tested it and i dont think i noticed a difference. I did just happen to touch the coil after that test and it was quite warm yet the other flipper coil was not.

So the flipper did not have the same knock sound as the other flipper?

It was not hitting the ball at full strength?

#642 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

So the flipper did not have the same knock sound as the other flipper?

They seem to sound the same.

Quoted from vid1900:

It was not hitting the ball at full strength?

Nope, its pretty good if you hit the ball at the tip of the flipper but not great when hit at the mid point of the flipper. Hot coil mean anything ?

#643 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Hot coil mean anything ?

It means no EOS switch.

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

its pretty good if you hit the ball at the tip of the flipper but not great when hit at the mid point of the flipper.

Does the flipper easily move manually through it's range of motion?

Voltage is correct at the coil?

#644 4 years ago

Vid, we need to get you paid for this stuff. This must be a semi-full time job for you.

I keep wanting to recommend updates/revisions to the original guide, but won't presume to lay additional effort at your feet. Thanks to what you do, no doubt you save dopes like me from frying our games on a near daily basis.

#645 4 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I keep wanting to recommend updates/revisions to the original guide

Let me know what it needs.

#646 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Does the flipper easily move manually through it's range of motion?

yep, flipper moves smooth as butter.

Quoted from vid1900:

Voltage is correct at the coil?

Not sure, can you explain how to properly test for voltage ?
Is it AC or DC voltage ? What setting on the DMM should i use?
Do i just test lug to lug with the diode connected ?
Oh, and what is the proper voltage supposed to be ?
Thanks...still learning.

#647 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Lane change switches usually last a long time, unlike EOS switches.
Clean them by pulling a crisp $100 bill through the closed contacts and go.

Do not skimp out on this part. I tried using a $20 bill and was less than happy with the results.

#648 4 years ago
Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Is it AC or DC voltage ?

DC

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

What setting on the DMM should i use?

Depends on the model, but usually DC100v

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Do i just test lug to lug with the diode connected ?

Black lead on ground (like a side rail), red lead to either lug.

Quoted from SUPERBEE:

Oh, and what is the proper voltage supposed to be ?

Depends on the game. Sometimes up to 70v, older games might be 30v

#649 4 years ago

Few pics for you Vid in case you want to use in beginning of post...
image-363.jpgimage-284.jpgimage.jpg

#650 4 years ago

I'm rebuilding a set of Data East flips right now for a Simpsons. I assume that the bats should be tightened on with a shim tool between them and the tops of the bushing, just like a Williams pin?

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