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(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

By vid1900

11 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

143 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #6 Removing mylar and the adhesive left behind. Don't clear over it. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #7 Playfield damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #8 Insert damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #15 Removing inserts, step one - cut around it so you don't remove artwork with the insert. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #23 Removing inserts, step two - how to heat it, what to push it out with. Don't remove them if you're not replacing them. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #26 How a playfield is made and why your new inserts must be sanded flat before installation. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #34 How to sand your new inserts flat. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #35 Cleaning old glue out of the insert holes. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #36 Removing old mastic with a burr tool on a rotary device such as a Dremel. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #37 Prep your insert for gluing by sanding it with 100 grit. Epoxy can be chipped off the insert without this step. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

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#1660 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Greetings, Vid-

Posted here on the forum per your request, photos now included!

I have a Williams Indiana Jones that I am restoring, the cabinet is complete and I have re-installed the playfield.

Originally, I only had one issue with the playfield, and that was where I had removed the semi-circular piece of mylar from around the left-hand side kicker where I screwed up and lifted the "2X" ink off of the insert. Here are some photos of that:

DSC00003.JPGDSC00003.JPG

DSC00013.JPGDSC00013.JPG

I can't really remember at this point since it happened so long ago, whether or not I removed the clear coat on the "2X" insert by scoring the perimeter of the insert with an X-acto knife, but it feels like it, since the top of the insert has no clear on it that I can tell, and the entire insert feels sunken.

Now after having the PF out of the machine for several years, when I run my hand over the PF it feels like all the inserts have sunk. And in so doing, I am removing ink around the periphery of the inserts, as shown by the photos below. The black flakes are ink from around the inserts.

DSC00016.JPGDSC00016.JPG

DSC00017.JPGDSC00017.JPG

Most of the inserts on the playfield have sunk during the time the playfield was out of the game during the cabinet restoration, see some photos below.

DSC00004.JPGDSC00004.JPG

DSC00005.JPGDSC00005.JPG

DSC00006.JPGDSC00006.JPG

DSC00007.JPGDSC00007.JPG

I would like to know your thoughts on what to do, and what you recommend for my Indiana Jones PF, based on my prerequisites.

Prerequisites: #1 I don't really want to strip entire playfield and send it out for leveling/clear coating, but I will if that is my only choice. I don't have the skills (or the time) to perform this kind of detailed cosmetic surgery.

I hate to think about having to strip the entire playfield and sending it out, but I guess I will have to if that is what you (and knowledgeable others) recommend.

What do you think would be best thing to do for the playfield and it's longevity?

I have a Who Dunnit playfield that had a similar problem, but the inserts were RAISED instead of sunken, and I wet sanded the surface of the playfield with Novus 2 and 1200 grit wet/dry which did a pretty good job of evening everything out, although I suspect the clearcoat is EXTRA thin now.

Unfortunately, this won't work as a problem solver for sunken inserts. Here are some detail photos of some of the inserts that are affected:

DSC00009.JPGDSC00009.JPG

DSC00011.JPGDSC00011.JPG

DSC00014.JPGDSC00014.JPG

DSC00015.JPGDSC00015.JPG

DSC00010.JPGDSC00010.JPG

I certainly need some help on deciding what to do. All help and positive comments are welcome.

Thanks for your consideration, and hope that you, and ALL Pinsiders have a GREAT Christmas and a prosperous New Year.

Greg

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#1663 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-

Thanks for your tips and recommendations. Playfield decals? Never even considered 'em, no way, out of the question, no worries there.

After all the time spent so far on the machine, 5+ years (I work slow), I'm not going to go half-assed at this.

I don't trust myself to do the work, and don't have the time, don't even have the resources to make a waterslide decal.

What I DO have is money. And since the machine has been apart for so long, I'll just do what I've been dreading but knowing in the back of my mind I would probably end up doing anyway, and that's disassemble the entire playfield, strip it down, and send it off to be restored.

That's the best route for me, because I would just screw things up if I even tried to level one insert, let alone mixing and spraying catalyzed clear.

Thanks again for your valuable input. You helped me decide.

Greg

2 weeks later
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#1686 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-
First off, Happy New Year! Hope your holidays were peaceful and happy.
I followed your previous advice and took a straightedge (steel ruler) and laid it edgewise over the inserts on my Williams Indiana Jones to determine if the inserts had sunk and/or if the inserts had edge wear, and while shining a bright flashlight on one side of the straightedge pointing at the intersection where the straightedge met the insert, I did NOT see any light (aside from the insert illumination) from the flashlight shining through, which to me, would indicate there is no gap between the straightedge and the insert. My question then is, why is the ink flaking away from the keylining around the insert if the insert hasn't sunk? Should I wet sand the playfield to see if I can level it out where I believed the inserts to be sinking? It didn't appear that the inserts were proud of the playfield either, so I'm not sure what is going on.
Greg

4 weeks later
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#1763 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-
Is it not unusual for a restored playfield to show planking and for the touchups to become apparent several years after restoration? I had a playfield restored in 2011, and can't recall if I could see planking or the touchups when I received it back from restoration, but I can see them now. Nothing is really apparent from a distance, but when close up to the playfield, and in the proper light, it looks horrible.
Greg

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#1765 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-
First, the playfield has never been reinstalled in the machine. I wanted to verify long term viability before reinstalling, and when I viewed the playfield prior to my reinstallation attempt this month, I was a bit shocked by what I saw. The playfield has been kept inside the house, temperature no lower than 65 degrees, no higher than 80. Don't know about the humidity. I can PM you with the photos, but would like to keep them out of the public domain so I don't risk exposure of the folks who performed the restoration.
Greg

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#1768 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

So be it. Here are a few of the many I took.

DSC00006.JPGDSC00006.JPG

DSC00013.JPGDSC00013.JPG

DSC00024.JPGDSC00024.JPG

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#1770 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-
That's what it looks like. I would have to sand off the layers of clear to know for sure. Can you understand my reluctance to repopulate and install it like this? I've sent an email to the best restorer we both know to see if he thinks it can be corrected. Whether he would be willing to take this project on is another story....................
Greg

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#1775 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

The planking was there before the restoration began, thus prompting the restoration attempt. I know that sometimes planking and/or swirl marks will not completely fill in even after multiple applications of clear with appropriate sanding between each coat, but I suspect that minimal effort was expended to alleviate the swirl marks and planking, as is evident at this juncture with the touched up areas.

It may not have been crap work when it left the restorer. I don't recall seeing the planking when I received it back in 2011, but I wasn't looking close. The fact is, I was just happy to have it back in the condition it was in. There is no denying that 3 and one-half years later, this is the result.

My question is: can this be expected to happen regardless of restoration effort and expenditure? Or is this the result of faulty restoration technique?

Vid-this question is for you.
In your professional opinion, do you think can this be repaired, or do I have to live with what I've got?

Greg

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#1777 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Thanks, Vid. You wanna take a crack at it?
Just kidding, I know you don't have the time, and can't do it in a hotel room.
But if it can be repaired as you say, I know who I want to do it.
I just hope he will.
Greg

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#1781 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

So I've heard. I'm waiting for CH to let me know if he's got the time and/or inclination to get it right this time.
It's OK, though. The machine has been apart since 2011. I can wait. Unless I die first. Just waiting on the main PF to complete the restore.
Greg

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#1786 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid already let me know he's booked solid, and the professional restoration expert Vid referred me to is booked solid, also. At this point, I'm not sure who I can trust to send the playfield to to have it restored to the level of Vid's (or the professional Vid recommended) level of professionalism and expertise.
I don't want to risk another half-ass restoration attempt. Once was enough, and I learned my lesson.
The playfield is too scarce to have it screwed up by someone wanting to experiment with various restoration techniques at my expense.

Greg

2 weeks later
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#1812 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Prime candidate for a scan and decal.

1 week later
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#1838 9 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

What Vid said, PLUS: I have successfully used BRAND NEW BRAD TIPPED BITS that score around the outside edge of the hole before starting to bore into the wood. Less damage to clear coat that way, unless the clear coat is very brittle. Use LIGHT pressure. Be GENTLE and let the bit do the work. Keep drill RPM relatively low, <= 800 rpm or so. Your results may vary.

Greg

11 months later
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#2871 8 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-

What epoxy do YOU prefer for re-gluing problematic (raised/lowered) inserts? And what retailer(s) carry it?

Thanks

Greg

5 months later
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#3447 7 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-
Are you ever going to be availabe to provide playfield restoration services in the future?
Still waiting to have Spirit done......................

1 week later
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#3484 7 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Hey Vid-
Have you addressed how to repair screw holes in the playfield art that were caused by a dipstick putting in a longer screw than was necessary under the PF? How to go about leveling the raised area without causing further damage to the screened art and sealing the hole (from under the playfield) would be a good topic, methinks if it hasn't been addressed already.
Thanks

1 year later
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#5663 6 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-
I know we've been over this before, but wanted to ask again how to safely and with as little damage as possible, remove screws, posts, and wire ball guides from Gottlieb 80's era machines (System 80 through 80B) playfields. I believe some damage is inevitable, but I would welcome some advice. I'm getting ready to strip a Haunted House main playfield prior to restoration, and don't particularly care to add insult to injury when removing them parts. In the past, I've evenly tapped out the wire ball guides from the bottom of the playfield(s) with a proper size punch and brass hammer, but if there is a better way, I'd like to know about it in detail. Prying them out is an option, but I don't have the proper tooling to perform removal this way. Be advised: these era Gottliebs had the end of the wire guides stamped to help retain them in the playfield which is why they're so hard to remove without damaging the screened artwork. But you knew this already...........................

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#5667 6 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

This is not really a logical approach because it will make the wire guides unusable after they are cut due to the shorter length. Once you cut the barbs, you have just cut off 1/4 of the effective length of the guide. And these wire guides are now unobtainium from Steve Young or anywhere else that I know of, and I don't have the patience or the skill to make new wire guides myself.

So that option is OUT.

Here is a sample of what we're talking about:

DSC00006 (resized).JPGDSC00006 (resized).JPG

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#5670 6 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Grinding the barbs off works fine IF the barbs are exposed before the upper part of the ball guide hits the top of the playfield, not so good otherwise. And cutting the barbs off is not an option. I don't have a strong enough pair of flush cutters to do the job. And of course there will be sharp edges left unless filed down.
Filing with needle files or grinding with a Dremel sounds like the best idea. VERY time consuming and patience-wearing.

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#5672 6 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

When I was growing up, Black Flag was an insecticide, so no thanks.
I find that I do much more accurate work when listening to classical music.
The precision translates over, if you have the capacity to understand it.
Most don't.

1 week later
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#5721 5 years ago
 
WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

That looks thicker than a standard piece of mylar.

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