Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

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#2107 8 years ago

sohchx

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Hey Vid, I am working on a Firepower right now and the original paint is really sensitive. I found a hidden spot to test with frisket and see if there would be paint removal and indeed there was, so Frisket is to sticky for it even after taking some of the taak away by putting it on my jeans. With that, I am scared to death of attempting to remove the mylar. What I want to do is mask off the mylar and the rest of the playfield and just clear the rest. Would this suffice? I have airbrushed all of my worn spots with Createx but I now want to protect the field. Did Firepower come factory with no clear on the field? Mine looks to be just bare paint. Thanks for the guide by the way!!! I must have read it 10 times already. I'm also using your pop bumper rebuild guide on the same machine, thank you for that also!!

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#2125 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Hey Vid, I sprayed some clear down today and got some weird separation on the in lanes. Is there anyway that I can fix this after it fully gasses out?

IMG_20150629_210300.jpg

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#2127 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

I initially started with one thin mist coat. I then sprayed another thin coat, and after that I gradually laid down two more wet coats. I don't have Naptha on hand right now. Could I use anything else?

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#2130 8 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Do you have any lighter fluid or White Gas?

I have lighter fluid but by the time I saw your post I had already used 92% alcohol. That did the trick and the clear filled right in. So I am assuming that what caused the separation was probably wax or some sort of oil residue. Being that, that is a well travel area the ball has formed a valley in those lanes and I think when I wiped the PF down for the last time the towel only touched the surrounding surface of those valley's and not in them.

Thanks again Vid!!

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#2149 8 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
99% of the time I use it straight.
If it's old and near the end of the bottle, I'll add a little ammonia.

I tried to use it straight but couldn't. I thinned with Windex.

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#2278 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

I just picked this up this morning. How can I clean it up safely without removing paint? What are the chances of the exposed white matching the white under the mylar afterwards? On my last restoration of a Firepower I used magic eraser and alcohol individually. Both began removing paint which I don't want this time around. After touch up I plan to clear it. All of the inserts are perfectly flush with nothing cupping so I'm happy about that.

IMG_20150819_121339.jpgIMG_20150819_121326.jpgIMG_20150819_121316.jpgIMG_20150819_121306.jpg

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#2282 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
When the paint is already flaky, I would expect that ME and Alcohol are going to remove some more paint.

So ME or alcohol is what I should generally be using for cleaning?

I assume ME is Methyl Ethyl Ketone, and what percentage should the alcohol be?

Naptha should only be used to pre-clean before laying down clear?

Thanks Vid!!

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#2516 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from tezting:
Hi Vid,
Do you have any experience with Vallejo paint? It is easy to buy here and I am having a hard time mixing correctly with the Createx I got. That said I would not use anything that is not good!

Vallejo is used and formulated specifically for scale modeling. It is water based and used on plastics. I personally would not attempt to use it on a PF.

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#2530 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from tezting:
I hope you are not right. I have just spend a lot of money on paint (it is not cheap paint!) Don't you think it depends on the type? I bought this line:
http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/en_US/model-air/family/17
It says "extreme resistence and durability"
Where I bought it, it said that it also was good for metal and wood surfaces?

I have been building scale models for 30 years and have been using Vallejo since it's inception so I have thorough experience with it. I agree, it is not cheap, but if you have a Hobby Lobby store near you, you can get it for 40% off. The type that you choose from the line may play a big factor on how it performs but I am not 100% as I have never attempted to use it on a PF. I'd say wing it and try a test spot either in a hidden location on the PF or on a scrap of wood. Use a spot of each Vallejo type and put the clear that you intend to use over the top of each and see what it does. In the end it's all acrylic and Vallejo is good stuff, not junk.

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#2538 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from tezting:
Thank you for sharing. I will test and share the end result.

Excellent, curious to see the results

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#2594 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from Fred736:
See Saw PF is slowly moving forward. Gathered all my courage and finally gave it a first coat of clear.

Fred, what made you opt out of doing any paint touch ups on this? I loooove touch up projects like this one.

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#2666 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from bobnatlanta:
My bad - this one:
http://www.harborfreight.com/deluxe-airbrush-kit-95810.html

If you plan to do more airbrushing in the future you definitely want to upgrade to a gravity feed dual action setup. Siphon feeds are more prone to clogging, more of a pain to clean and are best suited for decorating cakes.

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#2745 8 years ago

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sohchx

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Hey Vid, Being that PF color was laid down thick in the past I have small low spots down to the wood in allot of places. I have bondo spot filler putty, is that sufficient enough to fill those low spots to get them level with the entire surface again?

Thanks

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#2747 8 years ago

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sohchx

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The 2 pac does fill the low spots for me, but only so much and does not fill them completely. Should I just drip clear into those spots while the clear is still wet? It's going to take a long time if so because the low spots are abundant.

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#2752 8 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
I usually drip clear into low spots before I spray on the clear coat.

Will do!! Do you let that clear dry, sand it even with the surrounding surface, and then lay down the remainder of clear? Thanks again vid

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#2793 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Hey Vid, My clear is separating from itself. What is going on??? I have done three fields before this with no issues all prepped the same exact way. Now this

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#2795 8 years ago

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sohchx

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Quoted from slgerber:
Silicone? Oil? Something is not agreeing with the clear.

Exactly what I am thinking. I wiped the whole play field down many times with Naptha during prep and before spraying.

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#2797 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Thats gonna take forever. Those craters are everywhere, and you know what you're right because all of the spots where those are, they are spots where the ball frequently travels during game play and are the most easily excesible for waxing out in the open. Underneath where the ramps mount the clear laid down flawlessly.

So my next step should be to block it all completely down with 600?

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#2801 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Thanks Vid!! I really appreciate it. From the very beginning I knew I would have some sort of issue since everything went so smoothly before clear lol. Also doesn't help that its my #1 grail machine. I wish I could just buy a new PF.

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#2805 8 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Greatwich John is still reprinting Space Shuttle playfields.
Send yours in, get it reprinted for $500.

I looked into it, but a six month wait is just to much to bear.

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#2980 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from Insane:
Has anyone tried any of the Testors Aztek paints? I know the normal testors paints aren't recommended. I ask because I can get them local, which is nice if I need a color I don't have, also they offer a clear which would be nice to shoot over a small spot repair if it wouldn't make it impossible to clear over at a later date.

The entire line is meh and the only upside really is that it's airbrush ready with no thinning required. I'd Stick with Createx. Better pigment and a much larger range of colors. If you can't find it locally buy it from the link below. Much better quality at about the same price. Cheapest anywhere online.

http://www.tcpglobal.com/Search.html?query=createx#/?_=1&filter.custitemcustitem_manufacturer_usoffice=Createx%20Colors&page=1

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#2991 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from Insane:
i have createx I ordered. I can also get at hobby lobby, hate going there, about 30 miles away. Just thought I'd ask about the aztek as Michaels carries it and are about 10 miles away. thanks for the info.

Love hobby lobby. I'm there at least twice a week. It sounds like a hike for you, luckily I pass it every day.

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#3020 8 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Hey Vid, question. I want to remove print from some of my inserts but do not want to remove them to do so because they are perfectly level. How would I go about it without damaging the art work surrounding the insert? Unless I have somehow missed it?, I have gone through every page of the thread and saw nothing on insert art removal.

Thanks!!

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#3025 8 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1739707
A sharp chisel, held vertically, is all you need.
Very easy once you have done it!

Okay. What I was using in the past was a box cutter razor blade held at an angle. It worked well for the most part. I just wanted to know if there was a safer alternative. Thank you!!

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#3076 8 years ago

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sohchx

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Hey Vid, have you ever seen this happen with Createx white before after being cleared with 2pac? None of the other colors have reacted like this.

IMG_20160423_160537.jpg
IMG_20160423_160524.jpg

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#3083 8 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Was the original white sanded before the new Createx went down?

An initial lock down layer of clear was put down first, then it was sanded with 800. I then airbrushed that entire white area with the Createx white and heat cured it. The following day I laid down clear over it.

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#3092 7 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Interesting.
Was it a new bottle of white?
Did you add water or anything to thin it?

The bottle is maybe three months old. I always thin Createx with windex. I airbrush using a 0.35 needle so as it is way to thick for that straight it has to be thinned and performs excellent.

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#3127 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from La_Porta:
Vid, any experience with this type of wax? Trying to find local stuff.

One of the highest rated brands of detail products on the market. I detail cars professionally and use their entire line of products. I use it on all of my machine's

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#3146 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Whenever I spray Pac, I listen to Pac

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#3330 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from PhilGreg:
I'm working on a Power Play playfield. The goal is not to get it in an out of this world condition, but rather to learn as I'm going. It's a beat up machine and a beat up playfield... Now I had to rebuild the shooter lane from wood epoxy because I had to sand out too much to get it clean.
I'm having a hard time matching the wood color and/or "faking" a wood pattern.
I'm using the Createx sand color as a base and trying to mix it up with other colors but can't get that golden color.
You can see the difference with the hockey sticks.
I'm thinking that if I do the ply pattern in the shooter lane it might not look that bad, but again, I'm trying to hone the craft so if there's a better way to go about it I don't mind shooting over what I have now...
And another question about the clear... I shot with OVP95 rated respirator cartridges. I could definitely smell the clear (Spray 2k) - I'd just get my head outside of the backshed which is where I'm shooting to get some fresh air and hold my breath, but I took a few breaths of the stuff inside before that.
Are the cartridges the correct rating? I also have a beard which I know I'm not supposed to have to have a good seal, so that could be it too. Is there some way around this, like oiling up the respirator "gasket"?
Thanks!

I think that looks great!! I wouldn't even bother trying to replicate grain if it were mine and looked like that.

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#3714 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from pinballinreno:
Use at your own risk,
Some people have reported yellowing:
Posted By: Jerry Wesolowski <[email protected]>
Date: Sunday, 14 November 1999, at 12:31 p.m.
In Response To: Re: The Future debate revisited (TONY)
And now for the sad news. About five years ago I built up a WINGS 48 JILL. I coated the canopy with Future to show of the scratch built interior. When the Hasegawa kit was released, I took the vacu-formed kit off the shelf to compare them side-by-side. Lo and behold' over time the future finish does indeed yellow. So much so that it almost looked as if I had sprayed the canopy with Tamiya clear yellow. I hate to burst any bubbles but it really was noticeable.

This is exactly why I started using only 2PAC on all of my model builds. I too used Future back in the 90's, fast forward to now and it is a night and day difference if you look at my builds from then compared to now, the yellowing is way obvious. It is extremely obvious on the white and light colored cars.

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#3720 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Sys9-11 playfields were total Williams garbage.

So much truth!! Every single sys 9-11 that I have restored I've left the mylar intact, masked it, and just laid down clear until the entire surface is even with the mylar. It's the least I could do, and at least the final result yields a nice looking "players condition" field.

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#3993 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Vid, For Stern playfields 2003 and up how would you go about repairs small spots that are down to the wood bordering inserts? This is the field in question and the wear is on the right side at letter's I and N inserts where it reads PINBALL. You will probably have to save the photo and zoom in close to see it.

IMG_3721 (resized).JPG

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#3995 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from lb1:
If it was my FG, I would touch up the bare wood with an air brush the best I can, wax the area and put a circular piece of Mylar (centered on the N, slightly larger than the insert so it covers the orange) on top to protect the repair. The Mylar will not only protect but also make the touch-ups less obvious. There should be Mylar there anyway and I am going to put a circular piece on my game.
Interesting how there are two wear areas from the scoop eject, like the eject strength changed.

I can touch it up by airbrush no problem, what I want to do though is level the wear spots to the playfield. They are basically small craters right now.

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#3999 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Repaint the entire blue circle, not just the hole. That way it won't look like a patch as the new paint fades.
Fill with 2PAC to level it.
Wax it well, and cover the entire area with Mylar.

Really? I don't understand. I mean I understand what you are saying to do, but it just sounds strange. Why not fill the hole to level it with the field with some type of filler, paint, clear, then mylar?

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#4020 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Vid, When doing final fine grit sanding after the final coat of clear, are you sanding a circular motion or vertical/horizontal motion? And also, do you switch block style, or continue to use the dry wall sander?

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#4022 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Random motion.

I use an air-sander so I can wet-sand.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/27#post-1986492

Ok, and I forgot to ask. When polishing what types of pads are you using? I wanna hit harbor freight and pick up what I need.

Thanks!!

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#4029 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
Would you even touch this playfield?

I'd dive head first into something in that condition. Looks good

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#4058 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Vid, I'm working on this right now. If it was in your hands, how would you proceed? I will never trust non adhesive Mylar after seeing this.

20170212_234552 (resized).jpg

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#4063 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from simplykind:
Are you asking about what to do about the mylar residue? If so, https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-547712

No I was asking about the excessive wear down to the wood where the pop bumpers are mounted. The mylar was already pulled after that photo was taken.

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#4064 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Non-adhesive Mylar is the dumbest thing ever invented.
It has chewed up so many Gottliebs.
You can do a conventional restoration; matching the colors, leveling the valley with 2PAC, then putting an adhesive protector on the top.
Or you can level the valley with 2PAC, and cut a new protector from 3" Mylar tape in green or blue, hiding the wear.

So they do make colored mylar!!?? A friend and I were discussing that option if it were available just the other day and I had a feeling that it existed. I have only ever seen it sold in clear. So I would have to get the mylar as a sheet and use the old Gott mylar rings as a template to cut new ones, or are they sold pre cut?

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#4216 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Hey Vid, what are your thoughts on what to do to this lane?

20170406_200553 (resized).jpg

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#4224 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Vid, On the early 2000's Stern fields, is it possible to get the surface back to a gloss again ,like when it was new by buffing with different compounds and pads? In this photo you can obviously see the difference between where the ball does ,and doesnt travel.

20170416_143856 (resized).jpg

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#4226 7 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Yes, Novus2 is the perfect compound to bring those areas back to gloss.
Make sure you wax when you are done.

I don't have any Novus but I do have all of meguiars compounds. Would that suffice? I am assuming use a foam pad at low speed?

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#4230 7 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
I don't encourage beginners to start with any mechanical buffers. The old coatings might not be fully adhered any longer to the substrate.
Novus2 is $5 at any motorcycle or boat shop.
If you do auto for a living, then use "Mirror Glaze 9" followed by "Machine Glaze #3 " at med-high speed. Practice under the apron, BEFORE you wreck the visible parts of the playfield.

Yes, I have done professional automotive detailing for over 20 years so I have plenty of experience in buffing using various compounds and pads, but as far as playfields I didn't know what to start with due to it not being a car. What pad do you recommend? Thanks again Vid!!

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#4231 7 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Wow, that's crazy.
How did this happen?

Yeah really!!! Looks like a hack of some sort that never got finished, unless the Op has already removed it?? Someone definitely inserted a screw into each side of that lane for some odd reason.

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#4260 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from pinheadpierre:
Evercoat 2740 with 2844 medium activator. Initially I thought my application of the clear was to blame (my technique is certainly in need of improvement) or perhaps the clear itself (maybe too hot as you suggested) but the fact that the red, purples and blacks were not affected makes me suspect something is amiss with the particular jar of white I used.

This works outstanding on Createx.

http://usa.spraymax.com/index.php?id=851

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#4435 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from lb1:
I had been using standard Createx and wasn't so happy with the clogging and need to dilute. I have next to zero airbrushing experience so there must have been a few things I was not doing right. I tried the Golden high flow acrylics (https://www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo_highflow) and their shoot straight out of the airbrush with absolutely no problem.

Createx flows extremely well when mixed with Windex

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#4530 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

It's very odd to hear that people are spraying Createx straight. For me it is always to thick from the bottle, which leads to spitting from the brush, so I thin with clear glass cleaner and the flow is outstanding.

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#4669 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

So am I stuck with these swirls? Magic eraser and Naptha isn't budging it.

20170813_172208 (resized).jpg

20170813_172216 (resized).jpg

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#4682 6 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Those look very deep. I have a bad feeling that they are all the way through the paint.
Test a spot FAR AWAY FROM THE PLAYER at the top of the playfield and see if MagicEraser and 94% alcohol can even touch it.
If not, scan, repaint, apply decals.

Got it!!! I had completely forgotten that alcohol is to be used in place of Naptha. With a good amount of elbow grease the eraser and 91% took most of it out. Thanks Vid!!

20170814_183621 (resized).jpg

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#4932 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from La_Porta:
I think my shooter lane came out pretty good after blending in the putty:

Looks great!!! What color did you end up going with for the match?

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#5385 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from Wiggy:
Might not be a restoration question, but I thought if anyone know what I should do it would the guys hanging around in here.
On my WCS I got some small cracks, see photos. Not the best, but it was the best I could get. Small cracks in two diffrent areas, both close to each other though.
If I touche them I can feel some texture, but seems like the cracks are under the first layer rather than on the top of the playfield.
So what should I do, if anything? Mylar?

This type of damage seems to be really common in pop bumper areas. I see it all the time on early 2000's Sterns. I have two Stern's from that era with the same damage, both in the pop areas due to mylar never being installed.

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#5447 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Vid I have a question. I have a green shade of paint that I absolutely cannot match. Would I be able to use another brand of paint that is close to or an exact match other than the Createx airbrush colors? Out of all of the playfields that I have done this is the first to have me stumped.

20180130_191227 (resized).jpg

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#5450 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
You can take the playfield into your local store and have them computer match the color.
Buy a quart of the highest quality paint they have (cheap paints fade).
I do that with pinball cabs all the time, take the head in on a dolly and computer match my colors.
You can also get other high quality airbrush paints like Jacquard - they have an amazing orange that Createx simply does not make.

What based paint would I ask for that is safe to have 2k laid down over it and that can be airbrushed? I'm so used to using Createx on everything that I have no experience airbrushing any othrr types of paint on fields.

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#5452 6 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

Quoted from pinheadpierre:
If the bottle in the picture is your starting point you'll never get there. The bottle of green in your picture is clearly a tint (contains white). The green on the playfield is a dark green on the bluish end of the spectrum. Try starting from scratch with primary colors using a warm yellow and a deep blue. The tinyest bit of a deep red on the blue side of the spectrum might be useful to push the color towards gray if need be.

Yes, that green is that I started with. These are the colors that I generally use to do every field that I have ever done.

20180131_191820 (resized).jpg

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#5776 5 years ago

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sohchx

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9y 87,050 2,259 76

What brand of epoxy/glue are you guys using on inserts? And why do Stern inserts stink when you sand them? They smell like vomit LoL

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#5778 5 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
I use "2 Heads Epoxy" from West Systems because I have a gallon of it, but most guys use the HF stuff and it works fine.

Butyl plastics smell like vomit.
That's why when you open your tool box with all the screwdrivers in it, you puke.
Butyl is tough, so it's great for tool handles, but bad for your nose when they have been closed up for a while

HF as in Harbor Freight?? Thanks Vid!!

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#5959 5 years ago

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sohchx

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OP
Quoted from vid1900:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/16#post-1670975
https://www.menards.com/main/tools-hardware/workwear-safety-gear/personal-protective-equipment/respirators-dust-masks/3m-trade-medium-paint-project-respirator-with-quick-latch-mask/6502qlpa1-a-ps/p-1495520426214-c-13847.htm?tid=3183367752137348257&ipos=7

Vid, the cartridges that come standard with this, are they safe to use with 2PAC??

0

#6064 5 years ago

DDW

sohchx

Pinside member

9y 87,050 2,259 76

Working on a Bally field right now that had an extreme amount of wear at the kick out. With that repaired I am now faced with trying to match the filler's color to that of the wood. How can I go about doing so?

By vid1900

11 years ago

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