(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

By vid1900

11 years ago


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143 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #7 Playfield damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #8 Insert damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #34 How to sand your new inserts flat. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #35 Cleaning old glue out of the insert holes. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)


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#3794 7 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Thank you.
I can only find plastic ones
You don't know if eBay etc. has the perfect ones in metal? My search skills are failing me.

Here ya go. Just another $90 tool to add to your cart! Probably WAY better than trying to use plastic, though.

http://www.sterlingtoolworks.com/store/#!/Sterling-Roubo-Curves/p/52063286/category=12516967

1 week later
#3829 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Many metal posts have a washer from the factory (often lost over time) under them to spread out the pressure.
The right size washer might even hide the damage from view.

This is a reply to a post way back on page 39; has anybody on here used rubber washers underneath their posts? I don't know if they'd just smush too much to be effective, but the idea of a rubber pad between the post and the pf surface is appealing.

#3833 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Do NOT keep sanding away wood like this:

http://www.treasurecovepinball.com/shooter-lane-repair.htm

Dear GOD.
Personally, I can live with a bit of discoloration in the shooter lane - certainly preferable to distorting it irreparably!
Curious to know if anyone has used Cliffy's shooter lane protectors. Every game gets worn in that same spot, seems like sort of a no-brainer, assuming they fit properly. I've had good experiences with all the Cliffys I've used so far.

1 week later
#3847 7 years ago
Quoted from newmanoconnor:

Can I use a T-nut and machine threaded post almost anywhere there is a wood screw post.

I fixed up a badly neglected Sorcerer for a friend of mine, and added about a dozen t-nuts to the playfield - surprising, some of the places where threaded screws were used, but I suppose they were only planning on a 2 year life span for these games...

I wouldn't mess around with trying to use wood screw posts where someone has tried an epoxy repair which has already failed once if there's space for t-nuts. However, you should be sure to A) use a good, sharp bit, ideally a brad point, and B) If you have a drill press, drill a hole through a plywood block which you can then use to maintain a perpendicular hole through the playfield. Back up the cut with a scrap of wood so that the "exit wound" is clean.

#3851 7 years ago

Big "oops" on my part...I was given a Rollergames project pin (woo hoo!), and know a local finisher who had an opening in his schedule and was able to paint my repro cabinet as well as hit the playfield with a preliminary coat of clear. Great! In my haste to get it to him, though, looks like I missed a couple of slightly raised inserts. The rest of them are great, but these 2 are just up a bit. But...now they're cleared over. If I heat them up and clamp them back flush, obviously it will crack the clear around the inserts. I could leave it alone if it was going to be too problematic and chalk it up to the price of education, but would definitely want to fix it if it isn't too late. Advice?

#3853 7 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Fix the inserts then fix the clear coat. Hopefully you wont need any or too much touch up, if you are careful

Would you recommend scoring around the insert perimeters first? I can't believe I missed those.

#3879 7 years ago

New question: flourescent Createx paints. I've got a few spots to do on Rollergames (lots of flourescent green), so I bought a 6 pack of flourescent colors as well as of the basic colors Vid recommends. I tried spraying a pop bumper ring, but the coverage seems much thinner than the opaque white. (I then proceeded to kind of make a mess of things but peeled the paint away so I can start over once I cut a new frisket template...)

Now, it is true that I had just finished up with my white painting and washed the airbrush out, so it is possible that there was enough moisture in the brush that it thinned the paint, but the consistency of the paint also seems noticeably thinner out of the bottle. Best advice for good coverage? Also, the green out of the bottle dries darker than what's on the playfield (I knew it wouldn't be a perfect match, just thought I'd shoot some and see how it looked); would adding a small amount of opaque white help accomplish both ends in one move?

#3883 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Florescent colors usually need a base coat of white before you lay them down.

I knew it be smarter if I just asked you before sinking any additional time into more paint and frisket...
Frisket mask/spraying base white over yellowed areas went beautifully, I'm happy to report.

#3886 7 years ago
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

I want to make it presentable but I don't plan on keeping it long term.

See if there are foam pads behind those spot targets. They're often missing or worn out and lead to cracked plastic like you have on the orange one; you may be able to keep the others from breaking.

#3901 7 years ago

One avenue people might want to consider for "subbing out" your clear coating - I do work for a large cabinet shop that has an in-house finisher. I showed up with my cans of 2PAC and the guy knew just what to do, no questions asked, he did the preliminary clear on my playfield as well as priming and painting a reproduction pinball cabinet and backbox for $50, and told me to bring the pf back when I was ready and he would do the final clear coating (and level sanding) for no additional charge.

So, find out if there is a cabinet shop or furniture refinisher in your town. Those guys work with volatile finishes every day and are set up to work with them safely. Plus they know how these products behave and will probably need little to no explanation of what you're looking for. If your local professional is a nice person, they'll probably think it's kinda cool and want to help you out.

#3904 7 years ago

So I have a couple of tricky waterslide repair spots to take on. Happily for me, they're not super-visible so if I don't nail it, it won't jump out. (The most major wear spots are in the areas where you can't get in easily to wax? You don't say!) But I'd like to try my best to get it right.

I could use some coaching on the sequence of this. I have scans of another playfield, so i can generate waterslides from those. First, the wear by the J in the J-E-T rollovers. The halftone dots there are orange (it doesn't read that way in the photo, but they are), so a waterslide doesn't work in this application. I'm assuming Ill just airbrush a yellow fade for that part. The blue-on-blue line art, however, is a different challenge. Should I use a waterslide to re-establish where the art goes, then put down frisket and slice through the decal? Will frisket just lift the decal off when I pull the frisket to put down a second piece of film for the second color?

I suppose I have the exact same questions about fixing up the back of the "#5" skater.

IMG_6938 2 (resized).JPGIMG_6938 2 (resized).JPG

IMG_6912 (resized).JPGIMG_6912 (resized).JPG

#3906 7 years ago

For the skater, waterslide decal to re-establish the lines and the number 5, then spot clear, then back to frisket and airbrush?

#3908 7 years ago

Thanks Vid! All in all, so far at least, this process is a lot less work that it sounds like in your description. No doubt I'm not working at the level that you would be, but your instructions have made it really easy to work along and get good results. If I can make it though the waterslide process, this project will be ready to clear.

The CPR website recommends allowing 6 weeks before repopulating a playfield, which seems excessive to me. If we're all using some variation on the 2PAC that you have recommended (I got mine at the local NAPA; it isn't the specific variety you mentioned but essentially the same stuff), is that really necessary? Not that there's any real rush, I'd just like to hear what you typically recommend.

2 weeks later
#3960 7 years ago

Thought I'd share my progress with you all.

The nastiest repair job on this Rollergames was the down-to-bare-wood ball wear to the left of the J-E-T lanes. I used a combination of VID's methods plus a little bit of ever-so-steady detail brush painting to perform the repair. First, I used frisket to mask off all but the specifically damaged area. I airbrushed a fresh layer of base yellow. Then, I used a very fine detail brush to re-establish the blue-on-blue stripes. At that point (and after a couple of other spots were prepped, which I'll describe next), the playfield got another sealer coat of clear. Once I scuff sanded the area with 1500 grit, I was ready to apply a waterslide decal which was prepped in Photoshop Elements. I had to take it to the copy center as I only have a b&w laser printer; I had them print it a bunch of times as I haven't done waterslides in years and figured I might want to have more than one shot at it.

It worked pretty nicely! If I was to do it over again, I would have painted a larger area with the base yellow and covered a larger area of the halftone dots with the waterslide decal. However, if you go on IPDB, you can see that this area of the playfield is almost completely concealed once the game is reassembled, so the extra effort involved isn't strictly necessary. (File under: "amateurs ruining playfields", LOL)

Anyhow, have a look. Pretty satisfactory result, I think. Interestingly, playfield scans I was sent by a fellow Pinsider show the same ball wear, but not to the point of paint loss. So the repair shows that mild discoloration, but I can totally live with it.

IMG_6938 (resized).jpgIMG_6938 (resized).jpg
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#3961 7 years ago

A little less tricky, but still varsity-level to the first timer restorer, was this worn-to-bare-wood spot. I decided to repaint both the white and the florescent pink using the frisket and airbrush method. Frisket really is very good stuff; I was able to preserve much of the black line detailing with careful xacto knife work.

After the paint repairs were made and the area got a sealer clear coat, I then printed a waterslide decal of the black line details that I lost in the paint repair. The #5 on the skater's back I painted in by hand (a white Molotow paint pen would have been easier, if I had one), and a few black line spots I drew back in with a black Molotow paint pen.

(A word about Molotow pens: they're great. I saved hours of work on inserts using one. I shone a halogen work light up through the playfield - a little glarey, but shows all the light leaks - and simply drew in the areas that needed touching up. The seams between the inserts and the playfield surface were very easy to touch up, and I even was able to fill in worn spots on the lettering this way. Once cleared, you really REALLY can't see where the paint pen was used.)

See photos for "Skater #5" repair:

IMG_6984 (resized).JPGIMG_6984 (resized).JPG
IMG_6994 (resized).JPGIMG_6994 (resized).JPG
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#3964 7 years ago

Vid, you probably mention this somewhere in your guide by I can't seem to find it - how many finish coats of clear do you typically recommend? I'm going to ask my finish guy to knock down sand between the first and second coats, then use his discretion if he thinks it needs more between second and third coat. Should I ask for more beyond a third?

#3966 7 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Seconded, good job bro!!

^^ He can call me that because he is, in fact, my brother.

#3967 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

2 is fine, 3 max.

Thanks! Just dropped off the playfield to the finisher, should be all set tomorrow sometime! Then...I get to try to put all this stuff back together...

#3968 7 years ago

The last thing that I needed to address on this restoration was another halftone repair and replacing some worn/missing insert lettering.

The "Atomic Whip" kickback lettering was worn through, as was the art above it and the "special" insert lettering. I had repaired the red scaffold image to restore the worn paint back when I was doing my other paint repairs; after airbrushing, I went in with detail brush and Molotow paint pen to touch up the missing black outline on that art.

Next step was to frisket mask and lay down some grey in the area to be halftoned using decals.

I had too-hastily had this playfield seal coated with clear, and so had to cut through the clear to scrape off the lettering. That was accomplished quite quickly, though, with a chisel used as a scraper. But it meant I now had to have my finish guy shoot the playfield again with a thin coat, to cover the inserts and to seal down the paint work on the repairs I posted about above. (At least the white areas were now sealed over and protected.)

I now had to apply waterslides of the half tone dots. The nice thing about this particular repair was that the spots that needed repair are bordered, so I didn't have to worry about covering a large area. The less nice thing was that these stickers were so tiny that they were pretty hard to handle and position. To make matters worse, the scans I took them from didn't overlap , so I had to actually put two partial stickers together on the upper triangle. Amazingly, I was able to get it seamlessly aligned.

I had hoped to finish up these repairs yesterday, while I was doing the other waterslide work, but when I applied the insert decals and turned on my lamp behind the playfield, I realized that my printer simply wasn't laying down enough black to make the stickers truly opaque. It really looked bad, so, lesson learned: take your decal paper to the copy shop and use their much-nicer-printer-than-yours to do this part. I had the "economy" modes turned off but it still wasn't good enough. So this morning I went up the street and paid a guy $1 to reprint my insert decals. Came back home, and in 10 minutes had finished up with the decal work. A onceover with my trusty Molotow pen, some last-minute scuff sanding on any spots that looked too shiny, and the promise to myself that this was a perfectly reasonable place to "call it" (perfectionists be damned, this thing's gonna look and play great once I'm done with it), and it was back over to the finisher. With any luck, it will be all set and ready to start re-populating after tomorrow.

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#3969 7 years ago

Somebody is gonna get on me about the fact that I didn't go as far as I could have on these halftones. And they're right, I didn't. Had I realized how easy it was going to be and how successful I would be with these repairs, I absolutely would have done the whole thing over. But, it's my first time trying this, and now I know for next time. Already scheming on my F-14 Tomcat restoration; mine is in decent shape but should have the peeling mylar removed. Now that the inserts are available from PPS it's kind of calling out to be done. Now that I see that I can do this work successfully, it makes all the sense in the world to go ahead and do a restoration rather than shell out for a whole new playfield, as nice as I'm sure those are.

#3970 7 years ago

Regarding mylar: I can definitely see the wisdom of adding some mylar to known wear areas and have no problem with adding some here and there (particularly in the spots that you aren't going to get to to clean and wax as often - like the JET and skater spots on this game). Pinball Life sells pop rings and a couple other high-dollar, purpose specific pieces, but I'd like to get some adhesive mylar sheeting that I can cut to the specific purpose I need. Is there any reason not to use this:

https://www.amazon.com/mil-Blank-Adehsive-Backed-Mylar-Cutters/dp/B017S0HFCU/ref=sr_1_2

#3972 7 years ago

Yeah, I wondered about that. There is also this stuff:

http://www.staples.com/Avery-Letter-Size-Self-Adhesive-Laminating-Sheets-3-mil-50-pack/product_262691

I didn't see sheet mylar on Marco, just the playfield cutouts. Seems to me there must be a totally usable product without it having to have the "pinball seal of approval". On the other hand, 50 sheets is a LOT of mylar...

#3974 7 years ago

Ah - found it:

http://www.marcospecialties.com/control/keywordsearch?SEARCH_STRING=mylar+sheet

I'd still be interested to find the same mat'l in a roll, but for a single project, this is probably the way to go.

#3978 7 years ago

OK, the Rollergames playfield is on the curing rack at the finisher's.
The first topcoat since applying the waterslide decals went on yesterday. I stopped by to have a look, and noticed a very mild "puckering" or crinkling around the edges of the inserts. It wasn't terrible, but you could see that it wasn't perfectly smooth around the perimeter of the decals (sorry, I should have taken a photograph). However, I knew I wanted my finisher to give it a level sanding anyway, so I crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.
Today I went in to have a look, and the crinkling was almost 100% gone in every spot. The only place I could still see it a little bit was on the pink "skater #5" repair spot. And even there I had to look for it. I'm going to put some mylar over that spot in the end as well, so...bullet dodged, I suppose.

He offered to buff out the surface for me as well, which I'm inclined to take him up on.

My two remaining questions at this point:
1) I don't know how long he left between the the thin coat over the decals and when he proceeded to spray the full coat. I'm assuming he perhaps didn't wait long enough as he knew to go light initially. Is there an ideal time window?
2) Is there any reason I should *not* have the playfield buffed at this point? How long should it cure?

Thanks - I'll post pics of the finished playfield when I get it back!

#3984 7 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Did you happen to use setting solution for the decals? Did you coat with anything before? I plan on using a very thin coat of clear spray lacquer that I use for my models to seal the decals. I know for sure that stuff doesn't wreck decals, and it also stays clear.

I did everything according to Vid's recommendations. Next time around I'll remind the finisher to go lighter on the initial coating.

Vid, should the first "dusting" coat be allowed to cure to X amount of hours before going for a full coat? Just want to be able to give him specific feedback for next time.

#3988 7 years ago

OK, so my finisher was weirdly reluctant to buff out the finish for me. He might have done it if I'd pressed him to do it, but I didn't want to push. It looks very nice, but I'm assuming once buffed it will lose the "waviness" in the reflectivity and become more mirror like. I could just live with it as-is, but once you start rebuilding the game, you'll never get the chance again. So...

I already own a variety of random orbit sanders, including two Festool rotex sanders which feature a rotary mode as well as random orbit mode. They make buffing pads for these sanders; what do I need to know about how to proceed? (Apologies if this is covered elsewhere on the thread, I haven't found the info if it is.)

1 week later
#4019 7 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

Medium, that was 8 days ago.

Interesting. The clear I purchased at NAPA cured very quickly (within 24 hours). I remember Vid mentioning something about Canadian products possibly being different (stricter regulations about VOCs, maybe?), as CPR always recommends a 6 week waiting period before repopulating one of their playfields.
May warrant further consideration, as people in different countries may be using products that require varying degrees of cure time.

1 week later
#4074 7 years ago
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:

I don't have an airbrush setup yet, so I was curious about the paint pens I've seen people using. It looks like I'll get plenty of use out it so I'll just need to bite the bullet.

Quoted from vid1900:

You don't need an airbrush, you can just use a #000 brush, and cover the keyline cracks.

On my restoration, I used both depending on the application. Early in this thread somebody did a series of tests for opacity using a number of different paint pens. Molotow was the clear winner; I got the smallest one I could (1mm tip, if I remember correctly) and used it to very efficiently draw back in the key lining around the inserts. I was also able to touch up the printing on the inserts using the pen. Once cleared, it looks absolutely perfect. I found the pens to be a lot easier than a brush, though a detail brush certainly has its place as well. If you have shaky hands, the pen may be the way to go for you.

2 weeks later
#4099 7 years ago
Quoted from tonycip:

Hey vid I took some scans of of an area where I wanted to paint and am trying to make some water slide decals but when I open them in another program (other then photo shop) they seem to change size? (bigger) how do you keep them in there original scale. I'm trying to put a few on a sheet at a time to save decal paper .thanks

This drove me crazy as well. In Photoshop Elements, the image doesn't necessarily display at 100%, even though the file size/pixel count is a 1 scan. I worried over this for a long time before figuring it out; when I opened the pshop file in Preview and chose to view the image full size, it was fine, the perfect size.

The other thing to be aware of is, when printing, the settings must be correct. I took my files to Staples for printing and got the decal print all cut out and ready to go before realizing that it was *slightly* smaller than it was supposed to be. Went to the cool local copy shop next time and they got it right away, made sure settings were good, and I was out of there in 5 minutes with all my decals ready to go, printed the correct size. (I printed out a test on regular paper at home and had them print out a test for me to verify that the size was correct; probably an unnecessary precaution at the copy shop but it was cheap insurance against wasting another sheet of waterslide paper)

I was going to just have the copy shop print color decals I needed and do the insert decals myself, but my home laser printer was not nearly opaque enough. It cost like a dollar or two to go to the copy shop and the decals were nice and black.

1 month later
#4221 7 years ago
Quoted from jboner1058:

What are the best drill bits for putting t-nut holes in a playfield? And would you drill from top to bottom or bottom to top to minimize paint damage and tearing?

I suppose if you are really committed to doing things to the nth degree, you could do as Vid suggests and make 3 holes. I suppose it would depend upon the application. I added t-nuts to a number of star posts on a Sorcerer a while back, as the original wood screws weren't holding well anymore. My technique was pretty simple - in order to be sure the hole was perpendicular to the playfield, I used a drill press to cut a guide hole of the same diameter as the diameter of the t-nut post through a thick piece of material (in my case a piece of 1" thick plywood. You could screw together a couple small blocks of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood, or if you had a *flat* piece of solid wood available, that would work also). Now chuck the drill bit into your cordless drill, slide the block over the bit, and line up the bit with the hole left by the wood screw. Slide the block down onto the playfield and hold securely, and slowly drill through the playfield. A brad point bit will cut more cleanly and is probably a good idea if you are cutting through clear coat. It's a good idea to have a block held firmly to the underside of the playfield so that the bit keeps cutting when it comes through the back of the playfield - this will give you a very clean exit hole.
Ideally, you will clamp down the guide and backer block, or have a second pair of hands available to help you. It really isn't as hard as all that sounds.

If you're adding a t-nut to a high-tension or high-collision area where the extra wiggle room between the diameter of the tnut post and the thread of the playfield post would concern you, follow the same procedure as above, but use a very small drill bit initially. This will center the hole through the playfield from the existing wood screw hole. If you are going to recess the base of the t-nut, now is the time to do so. Use a (sharp) forstner bit and go slow, it will take only a few rotations. After that, while still on the backside of the pf, use a bit the diameter of the tnut shaft to go halfway through the playfield. Now go to the topside and drill your final hole to just clear the dimension of the playfield post's threads. Personally, I think drilling 2 different diameters in a 1/2" plywood playfield is probably overkill (particularly where there is a star post spreading the load), but I get where Vid is coming from. I would think adding a cut washer (and ideally a lock washer above it) underneath small posts would be standard-issue best practices at this point. That would further minimize deflection, and strengthen my argument that 3 holes is one hole too many.

When inserting the new t-nut, place a wood block against the top side of the pf and use a C-clap or F-clamp to press the teeth of the nut into the plywood underside. The extra deep C-clamp Vid uses for setting inserts may be necessary depending on far from the edge the t-nut is going.

I'm a big fan of adding t-nuts. They're cheap, and if manufacturers had been looking to build games to last for decades they would have used them a lot more than they did. To me it's playfield bulletproofing, much like the bulletproofing we do to keep our boards from failing on us.

Good luck! Once you install your first one it'll go quickly and easily.

2 months later
#4509 6 years ago

Hey all - perhaps a bit off-topic for the thread, but just thought I'd post an update about my work for lo those many months ago; I finally got my Rollergames playfield reassembled. I'm currently about 25 minutes' work away from either A) playing the bejeezus out of the game, finally, or B) discovering that my work has now entered the "figure out what the fuck is wrong with it" stage. In any case, we're looking good:

RollergamesReassembled (resized).pngRollergamesReassembled (resized).png

3 months later
#4942 6 years ago

Last winter I took on my first playfield restoration on a Rollergames pin, and, following Vid's advice to the letter, I was able to get it very nicely restored and playing like new. Now that I've been through the process, naturally I want to restore *all* my pins. My Diner is generally in nice shape, but the thing that is crying out for restoration help is the art around the large playfield inserts, which was wearing badly when I bought the machine. It's a diamond coat playfield, so it's worn decently, but it could definitely use a heavier protective layer. Because the art overlaps the inserts, I'm at a loss as to how best to address the problem. I'd appreciate hearing your ideas:

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#4948 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Dinner is a tough one to restore.

It's always in bad shape (your's is pretty good actually).

You have to match both the color (easy) AND the opacity (harder).

Each layer of paint allows less light through, so I backlight the playfield with a 2x4' florescent lighting fixture. This lets me see, in realtime, how my matching is going.

Good god, if *you're* saying it's hard to restore...
My first idea was to use shoot clear, waterslide decals to restore the line art, shoot clear over those, then do paint to fill in missing areas. I think I would just accept "close enough" rather than drive myself around the bend with it. Had initially thought of cutting out the art over the inserts altogether, but that seems like an invitation to madness, the more I think on it.

#4963 6 years ago

I'm lining up my projects for winter, and am taking a deep breath before attempting to restore my F-14 playfield.

I'm resigned to replacing all the inserts; was there ever a resolution on what plastic primer is easily available? I remember way back in this thread people were having trouble locating it or a suitable alternative to the 3M primer Vid recommends.

Also, PPS has, in addition to a complete set of inserts, also a set of insert decals which are precut peel-and-stick. You can get them non-laminated, which is great. I'm wondering if anyone has used them? Would you recommend them? Presumably they are a bit thicker than paterslide.
I'm fine with printing waterslides, but there is a LOT of careful cutting involved by the time you replace all those arrows. Time savings is worth considering.

4 weeks later
#5195 6 years ago

So, nobody got back to Pinball-Pat's question about restoring a Pinbot playfield...
My take on how to handle the lower playfield art would be to frisket off the black between the colored "orbit" lines and just paint the little star dots in free hand. You could go crazy and try to make waterslide decals off of scans, but that seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Scans as reference to get the look as close as possible maybe the way to go, though.

My own Pinbot is well-loved, and I've been considering taking on a restoration. The big problem I'm grappling with is, some previous owner applied the big decal to the always-destroyed area in front of the visor. It is peeling up at the corners, and I'd like to try to remove it and repaint (or paint and waterslide for keylining) the area. I hesitate because I have no idea how tenaciously that decal is going to hold; last thing anyone needs is to pull up all the paint or even part of the veneer with it. Too risky?

Quoted from Pinball-Pat:

Getting ready to try and revive this pinbot playfield. My first question is how to paint the black around the stars. Frisket doesn't seem reasonable. I have an airbrush I picked up. Can I just try and freehand the main areas of black and stay away from the stars? Seems they would be easy enough to re touch later with whites and yellows. I've seen a few restores that hand painted pinbot play fields. I am just trying to minimize the brush strokes. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

#5197 6 years ago
Quoted from packie1:

I tend to eval the rails on my machines. If I think they suck bad, I have access to a woodshop and make new ones from oak or maple. Depends on the game. I have painted them to match the game, I have stained them and cleared them. Like I said it really depends on my mood and the condition of the rails.
New rails on this Eight Ball
Mike

Agreed. It's incredible to me that manufacturers found it more cost effective to use that ridiculous woodgrain-wrappered laminate stuff instead of solid stock, that material must have been made CHEAP. I regret not having replaced them on my first restoration, but yes, if you have access to a jointer, planer, and bandsaw, it super easy to knock out new rails. So often they are simple black; you could get totally decent results with primer/paint/clear sprayed out of rattle cans.

1 week later
#5260 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Use WAY less wax if you are gunking up the Star Rollovers. The Star Posts should not have any wax at all on them; so slow down and keep it neat.
You are already throwing away 99% of the wax you apply to the surface, no sense in using more.

I would add that if you are using a liquid wax, stop that right now. Liquid waxes gunk up star posts and I know from Vid's thread on the subject that many of them contain silicone, which can contaminate the playfield and create fisheye if you clear it later. Furthermore, liquid wax products simply do not build well; when I was new to the hobby, I used the dreadful Mill Wax, but switched to using carnauba paste wax, and as soon as I did the difference was immediately obvious. The game played faster and more "like new".

I waxed everything on my first restoration project, as Vid recommends. I can tell you, my Rollergames was fantastic for a few weeks, and then the side "magnet freeze" ramp shot started to fail repeatedly. The ball just wouldn't make it around the ramp, period. No amount of tweaking the flipper, etc. made any difference. Finally, I put down some more wax on the main areas of the playfield. Voila! Magnet ramp shot worked perfectly again.

A friend of mine recently opened up a pinball arcade. We got together with a few other friends to talk about starting up a tournament a few weeks ago. I showed up with a container of Blitz 1 Grand wax, and told them to stop playing for a few minutes. I waxes half a dozen games, shot the shit for a bit while we waited for it to haze over, then buffed it out. All of a sudden, the Grand Lizard ramp shots were much more "gettable" and gameplay on everything from his Gottlieb Genie to his AC/DC were playing more fluidly and fast.

Not trying to pick a fight with Neo, but wax is your friend.

#5268 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

steves old. he is still in the preclearcoat mindset. Preclearcoat. Yes Wax was a saving grace.

Yeah, what would *that* guy know about anything?

#5290 6 years ago

2 Questions:

1) Vid, did you use the canned air method or the heat gun method on that F-14 at the beginning of the thread? Prepping to start my F-14 restoration; figuring what worked on yours is likely to work on mine as well. (Happily there aren't a lot of warning signs about the game having been stored in a wet environment.)

2) Any reason not to use this epoxy for installing new inserts?

15128676624431516261959788966024 (resized).jpg15128676624431516261959788966024 (resized).jpg

1 week later
#5337 6 years ago
Quoted from twenty6point2:

Many have your experience with Createx colors.
On the flip side, that's not the only pro listed for these paints. Shooting and covering well (lots of pigment), being able to fix mistakes before heat setting, and knowing it interacts well with clear coats.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/2#post-629391

Seems Createx may have changed their formula somewhat from when Vid first wrote about them.
It's OK - I had to figure out on the fly that my grey was gonna dry down a LOT darker than what I mixed it at. Remember, these paints dry FAST when heated, so come up with a mix ratio (and write it down!) which is lighter than you intend to end up with, use a small brush to spread some onto a thin bit of plastic or glass, hit it with a hairdryer and see how close you get. It'll take some trial and error, just like the whole rest of the process, but it can be done. Might be something to mention in Vid's original post?

They're still excellent paints, the ease of mixing colors and the coverage you get shouldn't be undervalued.

#5338 6 years ago
Quoted from johnrezz:

Bumping this to see if anyone has an opinion..

If it were mine, I'd plan to strip down the playfield entirely before installing that new upper playfield, get the playfield clearcoated, then do a nice repainting job on the blue areas/re-establish the keylining, etc. If the game has mylar...well, I know you *said* you didn't want to get into a full restoration...

On the other hand if the game is otherwise in very good shape you could mylar over the rough area as a temporary measure (mylar probably not a bad idea even if you clear it), play and enjoy the game knowing you aren't making the worn areas worse, and you always have the option of a restoration down the line sometime.

#5339 6 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Wow, that's unbelievably cool! I assume then fill with wood putty and re-drill a new hole. How does one re-create the recessed space for the heads to sit flush on the underside?

Professional cabinetmaker speaking: You want a plug cutter. Not a countersink. A countersink is for creating a pre-drill and recess for a screw and screw head. Boring out a broken screw is a completely different operation.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Page.aspx?p=32320&cat=1,180

You put the cutter into a drill press, carve into a wood block, pop out the plug. The cutter produces a plug which is slightly tapered, so that as you tap it into the hole it seats tightly, creating a decent glue bond. You clean off the extra length with a sharp chisel. I use this method on leaf hinges if one of those tiny screws shears off. It's a pain in the ass (time consuming), but really the only workaround there is.

A word about using those screw extractors: you need to use a wood block as a guide. If you try to just cut into the area around a screw with one of those things chucked into a drill and no way to guide it, it'll get ugly fast! Bore a hole the diameter of the screw extractor into a piece of plywood, which you can clamp in place over the spot you need to bore into. Now you can make a clean, controlled cut - crucial to being able to plug the hole in the next step.

I would add to this, it really is best *not to have to extract a broken screw in the first place*. Always, ALWAYS pre-drill where you are going to drive a screw. If you are driving a screw and it starts to feel like a struggle, STOP. Back out the screw and pre-drill with the next size drill bit. These sorts of wood repairs will work, but it's always preferable not to have to resort to them. Be mindful and take your time. If you don't have the right bit, go to the hardware store and get it. If it's 1 AM and the store is closed, Pinball Karma is telling you to stop for the day.

#5341 6 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

I was only answering the latter part of his question "How does one re-create the recessed space for the heads to sit flush on the underside?" for which a countersink bit is the correct tool, right?

Yeah, sorry, wasn't intending to shout down your advice.
If you need to install a wood screw and want it to sit flush with or just under the surface, a countersink is the go-to. Like standard drill bits, they vary in size according to screw diameter and head size. I find that the ones you find in hardware stores rarely offer more than the standard #6, #8, and #10 wood screw varieties, with a countersink for the standard deck screw sized head. But for installing new wood rails, a DeWalt #6 such as you can find at Home Depot will probably fit the bill fine.

One day I'll team up with Vid and he can put some all-caps-with-arrows captions on photos of my plug cutting tutorial...

1 month later
#5434 6 years ago

Sand with 120, then 150, then 220. Use a wooden block or one of those black rubber 3M sanding blocks to back up the paper so you sand the surfaces nice and flat without rolling the edges.

Lacquer isn't sold in flakes, that's shellac. Shellac has its place, but don't use it here.

Lacquer dries VERY fast, and it is VERY noxious. If you're going to use lacquer, do it outside on a warm day. Apply it with a sponge brush and chuck the brush when you're done (but don't use the crappy ones they sell at Home Depot. The ones at a proper paint store tend to be denser foam.)

That said, lacquer will give you a very shiny, very visible layer on top of the wood. On an older game, you may want to use something which builds more gradually. Wipe-on polyurethane is nearly impossible to screw up; you apply it with a foam brush or even a rag, and keep building up layers to until you like the look. You don't want to use too little, as it won't seal the wood. But it will give you good protection without looking like there's a plastic barrier between you and the wood.

Take the rail off. It's probably filthy under there.

1 week later
#5442 6 years ago

Does anyone have scans of a PinBot playfield? I'm currently restoring one, and the outlane insert lettering has yellowed, as these were not covered with mylar. Also some worn art will be easier to restore with waterslides off a scan than trying to repaint.

MVIMG_20180127_112019 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20180127_112019 (resized).jpg

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1 week later
#5454 6 years ago

Hey Vid, quick question which seemed to make sense to post here as it may be helpful in general to clarify: I'm restoring my F-14 playfield, and have all the new inserts installed. It will get its initial clear layer this week, at which point the paint repairs start. My question is, can I save a step by doing the paint apps and the decal work both before the next clear coat, or is it definitely better to lock down the paint repairs in their own "layer" before moving on to decals? Of course I'm fine with doing it in separate stages, just didn't want to be doing that if it wasn't really necessary (seeing as I don't spray clear at home).

#5459 6 years ago

All the decals I'm doing are going onto the inserts, not the paint. But, sounds like keeping the steps separate is the safest route, so I will plan to stick to that.

#5460 6 years ago

A mistake I will not make again: when installing inserts, the smaller arrows went in with no effort; the first few I did actually ended up with the wide end just a hair below the surface (easily filled with clear). Because of this, I didn't reckon there was any need to clamp those down while curing (unlike the large chevrons, which were a snug fit and needed pressure to go in evenly and stay put). Well, turns out a few of my clear arrows down by the flippers rose just a tad. Not a lot, and generally just on one side, but enough to raise concerns about eventual keyline wear. So, TAKE NOTE: things can move while the epoxy is curing! I wouldn't have thought so, but apparently it can happen. So clamping a block over *all* inserts while curing is a good idea.

I wanted to correct this if at all possible, of course. Using a heat gun, I warmed up the underside of the insert until the insert face felt hot to the touch (corresponds roughly with when the plywood underside starts to look toasty.) Quickly, while the epoxy is still gummed up from the heat, I clamped a small block directly on top of the insert. The epoxy isn't soft enough that you can press the insert down by hand; you have to clamp it down and leave it until things are cool again - the longer the better.

Vid showed us that 12" black C-clamp from Hazard Fraught Tools early in this guide. I went and bought one, and it is a good tool to have for installing the inserts. However, its construction doesn't allow for much pressure. For hard to reach spots, I used this Vise-grip style clamp made by Kreg tools. It applies lots of pressure even at a 12" reach and is saving my biscuits right now.

Of course, I'm just crossing my fingers that the inserts don't rise again once the clear goes on...

MVIMG_20180205_174449 (resized).jpgMVIMG_20180205_174449 (resized).jpg

#5463 6 years ago

Use a *sharp* chisel, held at 90 degrees to the playfield. Use it as a scraper, pulling the flat backside toward you. Go slow, and use a narrow (1/2") chisel, nothing too wide as you don't want to scrape the paint around the insert. Shoot clear before applying the new decal; you want the decal to be in between 2 layers of clear coat.

#5464 6 years ago
Quoted from radium:

OMG SO HAPPY! When the hell did this happen?? Thanks for the link!

I think they've been available for about a year or so (ironically, around the same time those nice reproduction playfields came out...)
You may be a bit less happy once you start down the endless path I'm on!

#5465 6 years ago

OK, so...I went on eBay and bought myself one of those nifty HP Scanjet frame scanners - still in the box! Awesome!
Buuuuut.....the software is so old at this point, no Mac can run it. (It's Power PC, and OSX hasn't run that type of software in several generations.)
Would be GREAT if somebody had some sort of plugin/workaround...until I can find a solution, I've got myself a useless piece of landfill fodder. Argh, hate this kind of thing.

#5470 6 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

I'll bet you that you can just use Preview to scan. I have a scanner that is over a decade old, and it is just instantly recognized in the "Import..." option in the File menu when the scanner is connected and has power to it. Give it a try; you will likely not need the proprietary software are all.

Sadly, didn't work.

Quoted from ajfclark:

VueScan has loads of drivers built in for all kinds of weird scanners

Screen Shot 2018-02-05 at 10.06.12 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2018-02-05 at 10.06.12 PM (resized).png

Guess what scanner the HP site has no driver software for?

#5473 6 years ago

Dang it all.
Just asked a techy friend for advice; he seemed to think just getting a cheap old Windows computer like pinheadpierre suggested is the path of least resistance.

One of these days I'm gonna team up with somebody at a graphic arts shop that has a big-ass scanner and just do a single, full scan of every playfield I work on...

#5481 6 years ago
Quoted from jsa:

It's just the Mac that creates this issue, as HP hasn't released any updated drivers for this since the mid-2000's. The only ones that I know exist are for PPC.

Exactly. Need to buy or borrow a PC just for this purpose. I'm *so* out of love with Apple computers at this point.

Quoted from statictrance:

Do you happen to have a link to that handy tool? I also bought the 12" C-Clamps from Harbor Freight and after a few not even redoing just releveling the existing inserts on an F14 mine are totally bent and jacked from putting them under solid pressure.

The link BorgDog posted is good. Kreg's version has a larger swivel pad, which is nice for covering the back side of larger insert cutouts, but that's easily solved with a block of 3/4" ply underneath as well as above. I can't find a link to the Kreg clamp, possibly they stopped making that model. But the Irwin is otherwise identical and will do the job. Those large arrows take some significant pressure to seat; that HF c-clamp just can't apply the force you need.

1 week later
#5501 6 years ago

Holy crap, do you have a separate thread for this project? My brother will go out of his mind!!

6 months later
#5964 5 years ago

OK, so: I have installed new inserts in my F-14, have had an initial clear layer sprayed down, which was level sanded and then recoated, I have done all my paint apps, had another layer of clear put down, and while the finisher was at it I had him eyedropper in extra clear in the spots around any inserts which were still a touch low.

I just finished level sanding the whole playfield down with 400 grit on a rubber backed drywall sander, got everything to a very nice, even, matte finish, but...the white touch ups I did around the slingshots actually burned through. Pretty sure this is due to the edges of the sanding pad hitting all those holes right around the slings, but it's made me nervous about doing my waterslide decals (the next step before the final clear coat). It seems to me that there should still be plenty of clear on the playfield; burn through was isolated to the slings and everything else looks and feels very smooth. It *seems* to me that it should be safe to proceed, but I'm writing in here to see if I have your permission to go ahead.

IMG_20180820_180352 (resized).jpgIMG_20180820_180352 (resized).jpgIMG_20180820_180505 (resized).jpgIMG_20180820_180505 (resized).jpgIMG_20180820_182451 (resized).jpgIMG_20180820_182451 (resized).jpg
#5973 5 years ago

Got my F-14 ready for final clear today.
A word on waterslide decals: I had to make several attempts to get decals that were anywhere near dark enough from my local print shop. Possibly a hoby shop would be better for this, as they might "get" what you're after more immediately.
One way you can go is to have your decals run through the printer *twice* to bump up the opacity, which worksa dn results in a blacker decal, but you can get very minor misalignment on the second printing. As a chronic obsessive, I am of course now wondering if I should have used the double printed sheet I had rather than the single printed one, but screw it, I'm committed now.

Next time I may just have to invest in a better laser printer at home. Sucks to have to run around and waste decal paper trying to get something very specific from a printer that isn't really about this sort of thing. No slam on the people at the shop, it's just an unusual request which falls outside the realm of what they typically do.

Vid has posted tons of good pics of F-14 restoration, but I'm posting these as an illustration of why you don't need to worry too much about what the immediate outline around your inserts looks like. The keylining is fat and will cover the rough edge/paint loss.

IMG_20180821_165619 (resized).jpgIMG_20180821_165619 (resized).jpgIMG_20180821_171719 (resized).jpgIMG_20180821_171719 (resized).jpg
#5974 5 years ago

Shooter lane: I wasn't happy with the result of my frisket and airbrushing attempt, so I tried another method. I used a small brush and simply applied a few layers of transparent sand color to the dirty, ridge-y area so common on sys11 games. This softened the ugliest area somewhat and to my eye was way more acceptable than the hard edged line I was getting with my prior attempt. Once the rails and a Cliffy are reinstalled, this will look plenty acceptable to me.

IMG_20180813_213932 (resized).jpgIMG_20180813_213932 (resized).jpgIMG_20180821_173935 (resized).jpgIMG_20180821_173935 (resized).jpg
1 month later
#6067 5 years ago
Quoted from statictrance:

OK - one more stupid question. I know we've talked laser printers to make water slides. (still trying to find a decent one that isn't expensive - they always sell out when you post them here). What about scanner beds? Is HP kind of the gold standard, or would any see through type scanner fit the bill?

I haven't done this yet, but one could take any flat bed scanner and remove the lid. I bought one of those old HP jobs on eBay but cannot for the life of me find software to enable me to use it. Others don't seem to have been shut down the way I have been, but FWIW, a newer scanner, even if you have to bust off the lid, might be way easier to deal with at this point.

#6070 5 years ago

None of the drivers worked on the old Windows 7 computer my mother in law was throwing out. And there are zero drivers for Mac, of course. Would love to be able to *use* the damn thing, but I sank a couple hours into the project a while back and got frustrated and haven't revisited it...

1 week later
#6093 5 years ago

OK, soo...I'm doing a playfield swap for a friend. He bought this CPR playfield in January, and I have left it wrapped up, safely tucked away until I was ready to work on the game.

Took it out today as I'm getting close to being ready to start the swap, and wanted to pre-wax the PF.
Then I found cracking around 4 or 5 lower playfield inserts.
I'm assuming at this point it would be stupid not to add epoxy behind all the playfield inserts. My friend doesn't tend to be quite as obsessive over details as I am, but in my estimation, the most "correct" thing to do next would be to lightly scuff sand (grit?) and have it re-cleared, as I'm guessing the clear will just crack more once you start actually playing the game.

Thoughts?

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#6096 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd scuff with 400 and clear it, if it were mine.

I figured that would likely be your counsel. I was really surprised what a thin clear layer they put on these CPRs, at least this one. (this is my first time working with one up close.) But then I suppose they're only doing one pass as opposed to three for a restoration project...

#6102 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Think about it this way, CPR can't give you a $600 clearcoat job, on a $700 playfield.
What they do give you, is a MUCH thicker clearcoat that Williams or Bally ever did, and a much CLEARER clear coat (Williams Diamondplate was milky/cloudy).

Oh, for sure, wasn't intending to knock the product at all. Just was hit with the sudden realization that my only context for seeing new playfield finishes is on my own projects, where there's a base layer, paint layer, and decal layer - so there necessarily ends up being a heavier protective finish than if everything is on one level and can be coated in a single pass.

I'd heard about insert issues on early CPR play fields and hadn't thought much of it, but I guess the concerns were for real. Seems inserts are a likely failure point on any game given enough time - from now on, I am going to be adding epoxy behind all inserts of any game I work on. Cheap insurance.

#6107 5 years ago
Quoted from Chopper512:

just an FYI I was able to mod an inexpensive epson scanner to do good playfield scans

Very cool! What was involved, just removing the plastic housing? Was thinking about doing this on my home scanner, if it was reversible.

#6127 5 years ago
Quoted from PinballAir:

Many times on cabinets I will mix a color very close. I then air brush out from the repair and fade into the original paint. Makes it hard to see and does not require a full blown re-stencil.

I would add to this that you can take a similar approach on many playfield art color repairs. I'm totally comfortable saying that I've never matched a color 100%; for starters, playfield colors change at different rates depending on, for example, whether one portion of the playfield had mylar covering it. You're likely to find that a color used throughout the playfield is significantly more yellowed at the top of the playfield or in an outlane area than in the main lower playfield which had mylar protecting it (mylar apparently provides some degree of UV blocking.) So, you might need to mix two variations on the color depending what part of the playfield you are matching.

If a color occupies a large area but with a lot of contours to follow, sometimes it's wise to find a spot where the color is a thinner line and just frisket to that spot. You can either feather out the transition with the airbrush or just let it be an actual edge if it's a very small area. Once the playfield is under glass and lit up from above and below the playfield, minor imperfections in how a repair blends or in how well you matched the color vanish to the player's eye.

I just tried to take a photo of this, but it's so subtle you can't really see it.

#6138 5 years ago
Quoted from Diver12:

So got a 1980 Roller Disco machine this weekend. Machine has lots of ball swirls.

Used Naphtha but it didn’t seem to get them.

Have used Novus 2 but I don’t want to use too much of it.

Ideas?

Read what Vid has to say on playfield cleaning here. As others have stated, ME+Alcohol clean by dissolving the old varnish topcoat. You *must* wax after using them:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide#post-2655687

Novus is a plastic polishing compound, and way wetter than you want to be rubbing into a plywood surface. Use it to polish plastic.

#6142 5 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Comet had no mylar and you can see where the mylar was on Cyclone.

Presumably paints changed somewhat over the course of different years and production runs, but if I was Williams, I wouldn't put extra capital into deliberately formulating slight variations on grey, no matter how much Python swore he needed it
They probably were using the same formula for paint colors during spans of years (you can see how a lot of sys 11 games have a comparable "palette", then things start to look differently comparable in the 90s as styles changed).

Mylar would seem to offer some amount of UV protection. On games I have pulled mylar from, the colors under the mylar are more vibrant and much less yellowed. I suspect this is actually the varnish topcoat yellowing more than the paint. If that is the case, you'll be able to even out the grey with a *careful, slow, and gentle* magic eraser + alcohol rubdown. Alternately, you can do airbrush paint repairs, but you will find that you'll have to add a bit of yellow to your grey to get a good match in places that weren't under mylar.

#6146 5 years ago

I'm almost completely finished populating that Black Knight CPR playfield. On your advice, @vid1900, I waited at least a week after the remedial additional clear coat had been applied.

My question now is, how long do I wait before shooting a ball all over the playfield? I've been diligent about pre-drilling and reaming the hole to cut away the clear, and all going pretty well. However, last night I had to move a post, and could see where the number "5" from the bottom of the post had actually imprinted itself in the clear. This suggests that the clear is still curing.

I know CPR says 6 weeks, curious to hear how long you typically allow before the game is ready to play.

2 weeks later
#6181 5 years ago

I'm gonna need some scans for Agents 777, if anyone has made them. Was *very cautiously* removing slingshot mylar with heat gun and plastic razor, and was initially pleased that it seemed to be lifting the top coat with it.
I *just touched* the area with alcohol on a shop towel and it obliterated the art.
Yikes.

Not sure how I'll make this look passable again, aside from making tiny dots with a paint brush...

Mylar around the pops came right off without so much as a scraper. Whole playfield's top coat is a crackly mess, so lots of ME time on this one. I'm gonna try to scan the other side before removing the mylar...

IMG_20181113_224637 (resized).jpgIMG_20181113_224637 (resized).jpgIMG_20181114_115519 (resized).jpgIMG_20181114_115519 (resized).jpg

#6185 5 years ago
Quoted from redrock:

Having checked some of the pinball supply houses, an electrical distributor, and Amazon and e-Bay, I can't find the 20 gauge stranded bare tinned silver wire for the light buss. Solid is readily available, which might be the only alternative. Any suggestions?

PinRestore sells it for $1/ft. You can also use copper foil tape or regular wire (though regular wire is rather a bit of work with all the daisy chaining involved.)

#6188 5 years ago

Tomass brought up on another thread this issue some people have had with clearing over sys11 play fields. @vid1900, I haven't heard you mention this in this guide or elsewhere. What can you tell us about this?

#6189 5 years ago

Something to be aware of: I was installing new GI bulbs in my F-14 today, and on a few of them, the force of the upholstery stapler was enough to put a couple of hairline cracks in the clear! The gun runs at 90 psi but in the future I will back it off some, maybe try 75 and see it it's sufficient.
Fortunately the cracking is all in areas that are not where the ball travels, so I will probably just let it be and file this lesson away. Thought I'd share though, as a warning...

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1 week later
#6198 5 years ago

Anybody else on here have issues with frisket leaving sticky residue behind? I don't remember having this problem on my first project, but lately it's been an issue. I thought it had to do with the very humid summer we were having, but I have a new roll of Frisket brand masking and it's still happening. You can get it cleaned up with Naptha, but that also dissolves the paint unless you can remove the residue with a q-tip and take it very carefully. Seems like such a dumb problem to be having. I didn't buy film that was "high tack" or anything like that.

#6201 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I've had frisket pull ink off inserts, but never leave glue behind.

It's really weird, man! And a hassle. The stuff I'm using currently is actually *low* tack. And it's fairly tough to remove (you know how it it, get an x-acto edge under it and pull with tweezers) so I can't imagine using a higher tack version. I'm stuck swabbing the residue with q-tips but it's a real dumb time sucker.

#6203 5 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

What brand are you using? I tried some "original frisket" awhile ago because my usual brand (grafix) was out of stock. The "original" left adhesive residue behind. I returned it for a refund.

Yep, Frisket brand. Sucks!!! I can get rid of the residue (worse on inserts than on the rest of the playfield), but it is a hassle. Appreciate the tip on Grafix brand, will try that next. There is no art supply story anywhere near me so it's all online for me. Wouldn't have anticipated this sort of PITA...

#6205 5 years ago

Well, shoot. A guy might've imagined that the Frisket film made by Frisket was a safe bet...

#6206 5 years ago

Another irritating little issue...I'm printing from a Mac, and whenever I need to print a partial image for a waterslide decal, the printer driver wants to place the images smack dab in the middle of the page. This is incredibly wasteful of waterslide decal paper, and I cannot for the life of me find a workaround. I'd like to, for example, make color variations of halftone dot repairs and print multiples of the same thing on a page. Anybody have an insight into that?

#6208 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Make your page/workspace 8.5 x 11" size
Move the image exactly where you want it on the page.

Yeah, you can't do that in Preview. However, you *can* do it in Pages. Have to import the graphic to Mac's word processing program, and THEN you can move it around within the page. What you *cannot* do from within Pages is tweak the color. So, if you're doing what I am doing and creating a decal of colored half tone dots (and want to make a few different variations to see what is a really good match), you have to create multiple copies of the same image, each with its own color tweak, and then import those to the same Pages document. Then you can fill a sheet of waterslide decal paper with many copies of the repair decal.

Hope this saves somebody else some time...if anyone knows a more streamlined way to do this, I'd be all ears.

#6210 5 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Use gimp... not office productivity apps

Oh, cool, didn't know about that.Will give it a try today, thanks for the tip.

#6215 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I assumed you were using Photoshop

I probably should have kept this problem to myself as it may not apply to a lot of. Other people. But, in the interest of clarification: I'm using p-shop on an old laptop that can't drive my laser printer. Adobe won't let me update or transfer my old copy of P-shop and I am unwilling to pay big $ for something that I already own which does the job. However, I do have to transfer the pshop files onto my other computer before printing them. That's where/why the problem turned up.
Import image(s) to Pages and put them where you want them. All set.
Somebody eventually will find themselves having a similar problem...

#6218 5 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

You can also turn the service on and off if you aren't using it on a regular basis.

NOW we're talking. I've done some projects that didn't involve photoshop at all, and others that do, so paying every month for it didn't make a lot more sense to me than buying it outright. Being able to use it on an as-needed basis is perfect. I didn't know that was an option, thanks for letting me know!

#6219 5 years ago

Hey Vid - I'm almost finished restoring this Agents 777 playfield, but have just run into a ghosting insert problem.
I don't spray clear myself but have a pro finisher up the road do it for me in his booth. He's been droppering in clear around any low spots or indentations around the inserts, adding a bit more as needed between coats. I was working down a slightly heavily built up spot, when it kind of went milky on me. Maybe it wasn't fully cured (was applied ~24 hours ago); now I can press on it and see the air under it move around.

I've been using the clear finish that NAPA carries; I'm operaring under the assumption that the average clear that is not the old Diamondplate will be less hot and will make for a decent repair, following your "slice and inject" method, but I thought I'd check with you ahead of time. Making things a bit trickier is that fact that this ghosting isn't restricted to the insert itself, the blister is somewhat amorphous. Looks like, for whatever reason, the drops didn't bond well with what was underneath (it was sanded with 400 grit). Was it just the heat from me trying to sand it down, possibly before it was fully cured?

Didn't see this problem coming, but it wouldn't be a restoration of I didn't have to endure at least one nail-biter...

GHOSTING (resized).jpgGHOSTING (resized).jpg
#6221 5 years ago

Better to surgically slice it away rather than inject underneath it? (I'm pretty certain there isn't any silicone contamination.) Just want to be sure I'm following.

It seemed to separate when I was sanding it down. Using 400 grit, did I cause it by working it too much at once and inadvertently allowing it to heat up? I've gone around to the other droppered places and sanded them down as well, taking care to do a little bit and then back off so as not to have a repeat of this problem. The rest of them are fine; I *really* took it slow.

#6224 5 years ago

You can cut Frisket around the circles and arrows, as well as cutting out little rings to re-establish the keylines.
I'd probably make a waterslide decal of the lettering (maybe some of the smoke/shadow details as well) and just shoot new white over the existing. You'll have to feather out the paint at the periphery since the smoke/explosion graphic doesn't have any hard edges. Set the airbrush to a very fine spray and go slow, do it in several very light passes.

#6228 5 years ago
Quoted from yellowghost:

It would look awkward next to the aged appearance of the rest of the art.

Depends how close a match they can get to the color of the current state of the background paint, and how good they are with cutting frisket and feathering out the airbrush. Definitely a case to be made for knowing where to call it good enough, though.

3 weeks later
#6293 5 years ago

I should probably attach a whole slew of images, tons of hours to rescue this rare specimen, but I'll save those for the restoration thread I started a few weeks ago and never follow up on.
Back from the grave: very rare 1984 Game Plan "Agents 777". Yeah, yeah, I didn't repaint the spinner yet, sue me.

48952556_504594070030221_1420062143931219968_n (resized).jpg48952556_504594070030221_1420062143931219968_n (resized).jpg
11
#6305 5 years ago

About a year later, but in finally got my F-14 Tomcat reassembled and fully operational. Didn’t think it was possible for this game to be *even faster*, but there you have it. GREASED LIGHTNING.

D8B4868E-07FA-4395-A46B-3AFA5BA1F7A3 (resized).jpegD8B4868E-07FA-4395-A46B-3AFA5BA1F7A3 (resized).jpegE105E13E-8867-4D4D-83EA-F1C22B3CAB48 (resized).jpegE105E13E-8867-4D4D-83EA-F1C22B3CAB48 (resized).jpeg0E09070C-E40D-458A-9D21-55278DD09D48 (resized).jpeg0E09070C-E40D-458A-9D21-55278DD09D48 (resized).jpeg8A8890EE-C20B-4D8D-985B-DCC293CFF8F0 (resized).jpeg8A8890EE-C20B-4D8D-985B-DCC293CFF8F0 (resized).jpegFAE5E1AE-3956-4E06-9162-EE54E289F94F (resized).jpegFAE5E1AE-3956-4E06-9162-EE54E289F94F (resized).jpeg
#6307 5 years ago
Quoted from Waderade812:

Whoh baby!! That gal looks great! Was it a CPR playfield or touch up? Nice work!

It’s the original play field, and I did the whole 9 yards on it; pulled up mylar, removed old inserts, replaced with new ones, a bunch of airbrush work...
Pretty much followed Vid’s guide step by step, really! Also, because I forgot to tell the finisher to plug the lamp sockets, I had to replace all the GIs, so I used Vid’s idea about copper foil tape instead of threading braided wire everywhere and soldering every connection. Just stapled the sockets to the foil, and it worked perfectly.

2 months later
#6495 5 years ago

Soo...Createx explicitly warns against heat curing, yet we're all still doing it?

The last restoration I worked on I did not heat cure. I set up a box fan and let it dry that way; while waiting a few minutes for curing time, I would work on whatever other things I could on the project. (Fixing broken solder joints, replacing lamp sockets, whatever.) There is nothing scientifically verifiable about my experience, but I had a ton of masking involving small, delicate areas, and didn’t have anywhere near the lifting problems I have had on other playfields. This could be me getting better/more disciplined about putting down very fine coats, or it could be that I’m being more thorough about scuff sanding. But it could also be that air curing allows the paint to adhere better. I’m disinclined to buck the advice of the manufacturer, but then again, Stern says to clean their playfields using freaking Novus, so clearly manufacurers’ advice isn’t always to be trusted...?

1 year later
#6890 4 years ago

I've had enough issues with frisket leaving adhesive residue or even pulling up paint that I avoid working on multiple colors/areas which would require a lot of overlapping masking. I tend to work on the areas requiring the most of a given color first, then do a clear layer, then work on the next subset of colors/areas. Sometimes you can combine decals and painting in a given phase, provided you don't try to do a decal over paint that isn't clearcoated.
Basically every playfield has different needs, so I end up strategizing the order of operations differently on each project.

Quoted from gawlicd:

Is there rule if thumb for which color to lay down first while airbrushing with stencils on a complete playfield repaint. For example, should I paint whole area with white first then work my way to black last?

1 week later
#6895 4 years ago

It's a different ballgame when you are able to do projects full-time. Also a different ballgame when you're working for pay - have to find the right pace without sacrificing quality.

In my experience a lock down coat is not a step you can skip. It would be great to be able to do all the paint apps in one phase before tree he next coat of clear, but that often doesn't really work out. It can, but frisket adhesive residue problems got me to change my methods. Which sucks! Because it lengthens the process. The thing I hate most is sanding clear between coats.

3 weeks later
#6932 3 years ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

If your paint is lifting when pulling up on your masking something else is not right. I can apply paint and dry it with a dryer and remask over that in minutes and do another colour without any lifting.
What paint you using ? What clear you using ? Seems like the paint is not properly adhering.

Following Vid's guide to the letter, Createx paint, 2PAC, rough sanding between applications.

Also, there was a Createx announcement *against* using heat curing a while back. I'd love to know conclusively about that. Probably not that important ultimately since plenty of people are doing it and disaster has not ensued. But still...

#6933 3 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

if you only have white. Add just a touch of raw sienna. That will give the original white look.

Man, that's a good tip. I usually use some yellow and translucent brown ("sand") to mimic it, but it's kind of a PITA. I'm not seeing raw sienna on the Blick website - is it a different brand from Createx?

#6936 3 years ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

I'm about to take the plunge and try my first restore/clear. I've read all 139 pages of this Forum (much of it twice), but still have some questions I'm hoping you pros can help me with:
How would you approach the section of the playfield in the photo?
1. In what order would you paint each of the 5 colors (i.e., black, magenta, orange, cream, white)?
2. In the central column, would you paint each color it's actual width, allowing for some overlap, OR would you paint so that successive layers fully extend beneath the next layer? For example, assuming black is first color, would I paint the full width of the entire column black, then, assuming orange is next, paint the orange all the way to the right edge of the column (covering the black underneath), then the cream over the orange (covering the orange underneath), etc? (Hope this makes sense).
3. How would you handle the black outlines of the boxes? Would you paint & mask, or go with decals? If decals, how would you section them up?
4. How about the white "Same player shoots again" lettering -- white decal paper?
4. Am I out of my mind?
Any guidance is greatly appreciated.
[quoted image]

That's a really doable restoration project, and I'd say a really good choice for your first project.
Just looking at it offhand, I don't think it's gonna matter a whole lot what order you take on the colors. As I have mentioned elsewhere, I have had some problems with frisket leaving residue when I've tried to mask over freshly painted areas, so depending how this goes for you, you might be well served by using some intermediate lock-down coats of clear. (that also gives you a couple of stages where you can fill low spots that you missed the first time)
At a glance, I'd probably plan to take it on this way:
1) Scan everything. put some tape on the playfield with a few inches marked off clearly and accurately. This way you can check the scale later. Things don't always come up 1 to 1 after scanning.
2) clean playfield gently, level and re-glue or replace inserts.
3) Lockdown layer of clear. Eye dropper the inevitable low spots around the inserts, allow to cure.
4) Gently sand with 400 grit.
5) Frisket mask, re-spray all that pink background.
6) At this point, I'd probably opt for a clear layer. Other folks might keep going, and mask/spray the other colors at this point. If you can, great, it's more efficient.

As to how to mask, you're in luck because mostly you have straight lines to follow. I would spray right over all the numbering/lettering. You can mask crudely around the inserts, as you'll do that keylining in a later step. I'd probably do all the colors, then do the black and white. Having a clear layer will make those adjacent color stripes much easier to execute well. Your idea about overlapping them makes sense, as long as you're sure to lay down enough color on the second pass to cover the overlap fully.

I'd do all that black line/arrows/numbering and lettering with waterslide decals.
For the white letters, a mask cut with a Silhouette or Crickut cutter will probably work really well, though I'm leaning toward trying out dry rub transfers for things like that from now on. (Though I can make masking here at home,whereas dry rubs have to be sent out for.)

Hope that's helpful, of course follow up if you have other questions (or pm if you want). Good luck! You got this!

#6944 3 years ago

All I can tell you is that I have done some projects where I could mask over paints without incident and others where I had trouble with residue. Where I had residue, naptha on a blue shop towel was enough to smear the paint. I've used lockdown clear layers on several restoration projects now and no, it does *not* make the colors look like a 3-D photo, nor does the clear lift with the masking. Every project is different, and depending on how badly damaged a playfield is it can require different approaches. I can generally keep things to 4 coats max. With sanding in between, it's not too heavy - I agree that too many layers seems risky. There are a million variables, and folks who are doing this for the first time should know the potential issues and be ready, and not freak out if they have a problem. Stuff happens.

I'm sure we'd all like to know what you're using instead of frisket film?

#6950 3 years ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

Clarification, please -- do you paint black key lines or wet slide decals? Not sure how I do the white text -- if paint, do I create a stencil? (And thanks!)

Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I'd do all that black line/arrows/numbering and lettering with waterslide decals.
For the white letters, a mask cut with a Silhouette or Crickut cutter will probably work really well, though I'm leaning toward trying out dry rub transfers for things like that from now on. (Though I can make masking here at home,whereas dry rubs have to be sent out for.)

I would hand brush only as a last resort.

3 months later
11
#7042 3 years ago

I've been working on this EM Joker Poker EM on and off for months now. What initially looked to me like a fairly doable restoration turned into a full on reconstruction, involving tons of scanning, painting over large swaths of the art, and restoring damaged art digitially so that it could be printed onto decals. It was basically a way for me to learn more about pshop and Illustrator, both of which were employed mightily.

The playfield art was incredibly delicate, and removing ball swirls with ME + alcohol was out of the question. Are would just start flaking off the surface instantly. Even the mild naptha on a rag to cut through the lousy sharpie "touch ups" that had been done around the keylining was a dicey proposition. I had to repaint all of the red on the playfield. The whites were such a darkened, ball-swirl disaster, it meant the only way to address that was to repaint everything with a yellowed white, then decal the art back down. The face cards were a miniature eternity of mouse clicks in pshop (Illustrator's Image Trace tool just couldn't make fine enough details at that tiny scale, to me consternation.) I used the pantone color book in the Adobe suite to print out samples and see how they looked on the actual playfield. Short of spending an enormous outlay of $ for a very fancy monitor and calibration setup, I opted to just figure it out the hard way - by printing out 1" squares on decal paper, labeled with their pantone value, and placing them on the playfield itself. The yellowed white means you can't judge the match until it is on the surface, as that casts the color slightly warmer. Then, lots of hours of printing and placing decals, plus having one of them glue itself to the printer's innards, requiring a surgery which may have damaged the printer permanently, but for $200 I'm trying to shrug that off.

This is ready for clear, after which there are just a couple of small details to wrap up that I couldn't do in this layer.

I will be doing a separate post/topic on this project as there is a lot to say about it, and I will be doing the cabinet over as well, but for now I figured I'd dump a handful of photos here.

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#7045 3 years ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Looks great Benjamin. You do great work. Shooter lane looks great too.
I'm curious if it's been discussed anywhere in this thread how to get out the fade surrounding the flippers?

First off, thanks.

Unpainted wood stuff I just accept as being what it is. There's a wear line at the top of the playfield from the ball travel that you just can't get rid of, so it's just part of the game's character at this point.
With plywood, you can only do so much before you burn through the veneer layer, so I'm inclined to draw the line at the stuff I can fix and make my peace with the stuff I can't. It's a 40 year old game, after all. The shooter lane already is cutting across layers of veneer, so on that I just used sandpaper on a dowel until it looked more presentable.

I've seen some people paint the wood grain a light brown, but that doesn't appeal to me. I suppose someone who knows the technique of graining could actually faux paint new wood grain, but the labor involved would be intense. Unless you can really pull that off, better to put the labor in where you can make it count. I like my work to disappear, as though this was an original playfield, albeit one that mysteriously got clear coated. Fake wood grain would look phony and labored over if I tried it, so I just let the game have some history.

#7048 3 years ago
Quoted from phototamer:

You could try to darken the questioned area with multiple , light , layers of shellac. I did this on one of my restorations and you have to look for the touch up.
With a weak solution of shellac you can get to the desired tone with precision.

That’s an interesting idea, I’ll have to experiment on one of the machines in my “bone yard”.

#7050 3 years ago
Quoted from BobLangelius:

Wow! That's a lot of work. Nicely done!

If only they’d had the electronic version, I could’ve just done a CPR swap and had done with it!

#7052 3 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

Those decals are really impressive sethbenjamin! What brand do you use, and do you use the decal solutions? Any issues clearcoating them?

I use the decal paper that pops up on Amazon, though I should be shopping from Blick on general principle...
I don’t think brand matters a whole lot when it comes to decal paper, in my experience. I’ve used the “Sunnyscopa” white and clear papers with good results, for playfield repair and for reproduction plastics.

I use the decal solution vid1900 recommends. it’s helpful if you get a wrinkle, though usually a bad wrinkle means making a new decal as the toner flakes off. Still, the setting solution seems to help get the decal to flatten completely. Especially nice for edges, which can sometimes lift a bit and be hard to get to lay just so.

I’ve never had a problem with the clear. Always out decals between clear layers and spray a mist coat first, then a normal coat ~15 minutes later.

#7053 3 years ago

More important when making decals is minding the printer settings. Color adjustments can alter the output significantly. So you want to be consistent about how you adjust those sliders, and not deviate once you find the right combination. My printer has red, blue and yellow adjustment, as well as contrast and saturation. Had to fiddle with them to dmfind rhe right match to the existing paint, somewhat nerve-wracking...

#7055 3 years ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

Do you use a laser printer?

Yes, a non-fancy Brother, under $300 on Amazon. I busted it on this job!

#7057 3 years ago
Quoted from wayinla:

Brothers laser printers are great, though I only have a B/W one. Looking to perhaps get a one for color but those cartridges are expensive!

This one worked great until it wrapped a piece of decal paper around the last drum, that one that gets real hot - it glued the paper to itself! There was absolutely no way to access it - believe me I tried - so I had to slice the paper and grab at it with a hemostat. Not good. So now it seems like there’s a spot where the toner doesn’t bond to the paper.
I guess the lesson here is to only do a few decals at a time, before the printer gets really hot. But really, I wasn’t using it that hard! I need to figure out if the problem is permanent. A replacement printer wouldn’t be the end of the world, though it would be nice to get one that can lay down a truly opaque black, for places involving decals over inserts. (I usually have to double those up.) But the options seem to be ~$250 8.5 x 11 home office printer, ~$3k 11 x 17 medium format printer, or $$$$$$$ professional print shop model.
And yeah, they nail you on the toners. FWIW, I had to run a LOT of test decals while working on this playfield and the toner supply seemed to be holding out pretty well.

#7061 3 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

I used to use a color laser, it would jam and could streak. Now I just take all my printing needs to Kinko's. $1 per page color and like 0.15 for B/W.
It's SO much easier. But then again I have one two miles from where I work.

I can’t see making that work efficiently; for something like this I ended up printing a lot of tests before arriving at the final pantone values. I need to be able to print, lay down a test, tweak, try again, repeat.

2 weeks later
#7076 3 years ago

So, increasingly I am finding decals to be the best way to restore worn/missing artwork on playfields, but I am finding that it can be tricky to get truly “solid” blocks of color using a laser printer.
I already own a very good inkjet printer which can make beautiful photographic prints, but the prevailing wisdom from Vid is that inkjets are to be avoided as they are prone to fading over time.

Surely there have been advances in inkjet prints/fixatives/papers in the years since Vid first wrote this guide? I get very good results with laser printed decals, but I could get even better ones using inkjet. Also, doesn’t 2PAC block UV, rendering the issue kind of moot?

Just curious to hear if others are thinking along the same lines.

2 months later
#7160 3 years ago

I'm doing a playfield swap on a Warlok for a client currently; the original playfield is pretty far gone, but somehow the owner found a NOS factory reject playfield. So, warlok being a pretty scarce title, it was decided that it was worth the effort to fix up the NOS playfield and get this game back up and running.
There have been some white-knuckle moments on this; worst of all the absence of a number of key playfield location dimples, such as the return lanes. I had to make a map on tracing paper (or in my case, my wife's parchment paper for baking) and transfer the locations of the holes. But, that's another story for a different thread.

The main problems with the playfield were a large halftone area which was smeared, and a misalignment problem in the center of the playfield. IMG_5578 (resized).JPGIMG_5578 (resized).JPG

Doing a gradient in pshop and transforming it to halftone would have been terrific if it had worked. Unfortunately, even though the result looked great on screen, when I printed it out it expressed the gradient in sort of "bars" of dots, rather than an even gradation of halftoning. So, I did what anybody with an obsessive personality would do, went out and purchased a stylus pad for the computer so that I could use a pressure sensitive halftone brush tool to create the effect "by hand".
Those brush tools are touchy and it is pretty hard to get exactly what you're after when you are trying to mimic an existing effect. Much more usable when you just need to add a halftone to an illustration.But, after many MANY attempts, I did manage to get one that is a decent mimic of the original gradient. IMG_5577 (resized).JPGIMG_5577 (resized).JPG

The only downside is that the brush tool's minimum dot size isn't as fine as the original silkscreen halftone dots, so if you really want to go busting my balls over something, there you have it. But, in this case, there is a gate where my decal ends, as well as a lot of other playfield obstructions to distract the eye. Knowing when to call it is, I am learning, part of the art of doing this sort of work.

One approach to this would be to mask and airbrush over the "swoop" with a yellow base, clear over that, and then do a clear waterslide decal of the halftones. I am trying to minimize the amount of steps required, and so have been working more and more with opaque white decals and full color printing in Illustrator. Most of the work takes place at the computer, then it's just a matter of cutting the decal out and applying it. (though there's never any "just" about it ) IMG_6033 (resized).jpgIMG_6033 (resized).jpg

If I was being fancy I would have had the vinyl cutter cut out the decal, but for this I just used scissors. For the keylining around the "collect bonus" insert, I just positioned the dry decal, drew a circle with a circle template, and cut it out with an xacto knife. IMG_6041 (resized).JPGIMG_6041 (resized).JPG

The final result looked better than I imagined it would. IMG_6042 (resized).JPGIMG_6042 (resized).JPG

#7161 3 years ago

Next issue was differently challenging; the center playfield art's misalignment and insert movement made things a bit messy and cried out to be repaired. Honestly, if this kind of defect were located anywhere but *right under the player's nose*, I might have just done a cursory touchup with a Molotow paint pen and been done with it. But no such luck. IMG_6011 (resized).JPGIMG_6011 (resized).JPG

Again, one approach here would be to mask off and spray a new yellow base, and mask off and spray fresh black, and then clear, and then do a waterslide for the numbers on the yellow field. (the raised insert creates a blemish on the yellow under the "4,000") But that wouldn't address the defects in the colored stripes. I could have made a bunch of masks on the vinyl cutter and laid down a bunch of airbrush paint, but I'm not convinced that would have looked very good. And, again, I'm trying to minimize my steps. IMG_5574 (resized).JPGIMG_5574 (resized).JPG

So, I used photoshop to touch up the image and isolated each color onto its own layer. That way I could bleed over making sure there were no "voids" in the coverage - I spent some time with the drawing pad and the brush tool. Then I exported the file to Illustrator where I could convert each layer to raster format, making for a smoother image all around, since raster isn't pixel-based. IMG_6043 (resized).JPGIMG_6043 (resized).JPG IMG_6044 (resized).JPGIMG_6044 (resized).JPG IMG_6045 (resized).JPGIMG_6045 (resized).JPG

The fun part comes when you have to color match your scan to your laser printer. Trial and error are pretty much it. I've gotten better at predicting which Pantone value will get me in the ballpark; then it's just a matter of making test prints until you arrive at a color match you don't hate and can live with. (Once those values are established, you can use them anywhere on the playfield, or for making your own repro plastics if you need to - keep the colors consistent, like they were from the silk screener.)

My work was complicated by the fact that my scans of the area didn't include this whole region in one shot - I had to stitch the image together. It didn't occur to me that stitching can mess up to 1 proportion of the scan until I had cut my first "final" decal and applied it. It was slightly too small! So, I had to measure the actual image height with a ruler on the playfield, then adjust the image size in Illustrator manually. That was a drag. Fortunately, it worked and I didn't have to make a new scan and start all over again.

Another complication (and I'd love some advice on this if anybody has some insight) is that I wasn't able to use the vinyl cutter on this. This decal is a perfect application, too, as it has "windows" that need to be cut out for the inserts behind it. But, in order to use the cutter, you have to print from the cutter's software. For whatever reason, despite embedding the color profile when I exported to TIFF, the prints I got using Silhouette's software threw the color way off. So...I got out a fresh xacto knife and put on 2 pairs of reading glasses.

It worked.

IMG_6039 (resized).JPGIMG_6039 (resized).JPG

IMG_6040 (resized).JPGIMG_6040 (resized).JPG
#7163 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There are tons of NOS playfields that are missing all the dimple locations (if the playfield was a reject, they are not going to bother putting it in the "Pants Presser" to dimple it).
BUT, if you clamp the old playfield on top and the NOS on the bottom, you just drill through the old one and into the new one.
This transfers both the post holes and all the wire guide holes, just switch to the proper size drill bit
I had to do this for the Sexy Girl playfield
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/transgendering-a-sexy-girl-into-a-bally-vids-guide[quoted image]

And this is why it's nice to have you back, Vid! (Just wish I'd brought it up earlier )

#7165 3 years ago

I did, and will again once it’s done so there’s a version with cleaned up art. Yeah, it’s a rare one. Very cool game, too, I’ll be excited to get it finished up and playing 110%. Best of all, the owner plans to open a pinball arcade eventually, so pinheads will be able to enjoy it on location. That makes doing projects for him a real pleasure.

1 month later
#7222 3 years ago

Hey all - just FYI, I am documenting my Warlok restoration over here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/warlok-nos-playfield-full-game-restoration-

Slow going; most of the work is finished, I'm just waiting on a few last parts, and will try to write some new installments daily. It takes a fair amount of time for me because I tend to get into the weeds and am verbose on a good day. But I hope it's of interest...

2 weeks later
#7242 3 years ago

I was removing the mylar from an Indians Jones playfield, and the clear over this insert came up.
Bummer.FA7D12F1-7669-43E9-8C55-8AAFAE00AC89 (resized).jpegFA7D12F1-7669-43E9-8C55-8AAFAE00AC89 (resized).jpeg

I found the font and downloaded it.
Next, I scanned the arrow so that I could get the spacing right. I scraped off all the clear on the arrow, opened Adobe Illustrator, and traced the shaped and spelled out the text. I increased the stroke size and until I had letter outlines larger than the black text, cut that as a stencil on the Silhouette, and sprayed the white paint background.
A0CC449D-601B-41CB-B3CD-CDDAA2360ACB (resized).jpegA0CC449D-601B-41CB-B3CD-CDDAA2360ACB (resized).jpeg

Then I made a second stencil with the arrow key line and the black lettering. One could instead clear and then apply a decal, but I wanted to see if so could get this all done in one layer. It worked out well!
419DA913-A081-4287-90BB-D603EA053039 (resized).jpeg419DA913-A081-4287-90BB-D603EA053039 (resized).jpeg

#7243 3 years ago

Here’s some Warlok Porn:

C93683C6-5C12-4E7B-B0CF-61BEAE321119 (resized).jpegC93683C6-5C12-4E7B-B0CF-61BEAE321119 (resized).jpeg159CB98A-27DF-472C-8BC8-1760321453B7 (resized).jpeg159CB98A-27DF-472C-8BC8-1760321453B7 (resized).jpeg8F454538-B7A4-410E-99BB-6E5B34448EBF (resized).jpeg8F454538-B7A4-410E-99BB-6E5B34448EBF (resized).jpeg63FC9AB6-5C2A-4558-B364-91C64EC5A780 (resized).jpeg63FC9AB6-5C2A-4558-B364-91C64EC5A780 (resized).jpegED7D9DA4-DE03-4F20-8E5F-B82ADE386F99 (resized).jpegED7D9DA4-DE03-4F20-8E5F-B82ADE386F99 (resized).jpeg26EEF1FE-38BD-41B3-AFB7-51653207A673 (resized).jpeg26EEF1FE-38BD-41B3-AFB7-51653207A673 (resized).jpeg

F3FCABAB-0E22-48A1-BACB-2512575011A3 (resized).jpegF3FCABAB-0E22-48A1-BACB-2512575011A3 (resized).jpeg
#7245 3 years ago
Quoted from Fred736:

How did you go about clearing the repair? Did you mask just the area you has scraped off and drop clear or did you sand the clear around and drop (or spray?!?) on the scrapped insert plus overlap on the existing sanded clear?
And after that, guess you had to sand down flat and repolish?

The whole playfield is getting cleared twice. I don’t know that trying to “spot clear” would work very well; this will get sprayed and eye-droppered if necessary, then sanded, then cleared again. Might do a third coat, but only if it seems warranted.

1 month later
#7298 3 years ago
Quoted from mark532011:

fyi - for scanning. I gave up on finding the old HP and I purchased the Epson Perfection V39 ($144)
The reason is that the top cover comes off completely and it will work upside down. This allows you to lay it onto a playfield or cabinet and scan. Its not perfect when upside down, a slight bit blurry

Try scanning with the playfield upside down instead. Steady the playfield by hand or by supporting it with something on a larger table. I use this method with a fairly old Epson Stylus scanner and have had no issues with blurring.
I *have* had some issues with scans being true 1, but haven’t gotten to the bottom of whether that’s due to the playfield being slightly off of the surface of the glass, or if it’s something more arcane to do with digital image issues. The problem has been in inconsistent; I’ve taken to marking out 6” on a piece of masking tape at the edge of the scan area so that I can re-size if necessary. It works.
In any case, I doubt the fuzzy image here is due to the scanner being upside down. More likely it moved a tiny bit during scanning. 300dpi is good for most of what we need to do. If you wanna go crazy, go with 600dpi, but if you’re tracing in AI that’s definitely overkill.

1 month later
#7363 3 years ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

Vid the Naphtha works but does remove some of the paint. I tried heat on the frisket. It seamed to work on the first two small sections. Unfortunately it made a big mess of the third piece. I wish I know why this roll is leaving glue behind.

I had this problem as well, and had it across brands. Went through the same issues you're describing, even had an issue at one point with lifting the clear, which *really* sucked. Finally switched to low-tack Frisket and never had a problem (so far.) I take care to lay it down lightly and then lightly burnish the area where I need a hard edge line. Works.
I can’t remember which version of Frisket film I used most recently, but I expect switching to low-tack is the important part. In the past I had issues with adhesive residue from both Frisket name-brand as well as other manufacturers’ products.

2 months later
#7424 2 years ago
Quoted from alexmogil:

What are my chances here?

I’ve pulled Mylar off an F-14 Tomcat, a Rollergames, and a PinBot, each time with only minimal paint loss. I used the heat gun and plastic razor blade method and went slow. I always clean the playfield thoroughly and then do scans of everything before I start in on the Mylar , so that if any portion gets damaged I have a 1-to-1 record of the art from before the Mylar was removed (and any paint that came with it).

#7428 2 years ago
Quoted from alexmogil:

Edit: Yeah it was the glue all waved up. Me dumb.

Ayup. Time to make with the alcohol and flour!

1 week later
#7446 2 years ago
Quoted from RightNut:

Apply clear coat 1 (how long to wait before sanding/applying 2nd coat?)
Remove hills with 120 grit, then 220,...
Sand 1st coat with 800
Apply clear coat 2 (how long to wait before sanding/applying 3nd coat?)
Sand 2nd coat with 800
-Do I need to wait a couple weeks/month here to let stuff cure before applying 3rd coat?-

In my experience, the emphasis on extraordinary wait times when working with 2PAC is misguided. When working on a playfield, I level sand and continue to the next phase as soon as the clear has hardened adequately (generally about 24 hours with the clear I use). Don’t worry about how long the cure time is between phases of your work, it’ll be fine. How long before you start playing is no doubt a lively topic I won’t step into, but for the phases of playfield restoration, no worries.

#7452 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Also, im using rapid-prep before clearcoating.

Welp, that’s two better living through chemistry products I've ordered this week on your recommendation...

#7454 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I don't really let anything set too long on a playfield.
You never know what will happen on these old finishes.

Agreed, every once in a while I get a dribble of isopropyl on a project and I’m all “AAAAAAHHHHH!!!”

My bottle of Rapid Tac arrived just in time for me to have already busted out the alcohol and flour, lol. Fortunately this project had only a little bit of adhesive to remove.

It’s been a source of anxiety on every project, trying to be extra certain to remove all the residue from ME + alcohol, etc, after the first phase of a playfield restoration. So that was a very welcome recommendation. I think I also got on to using adhesion promoter at your recommendation. One day we will have the fully comprehensive playfield restoration guide written and indexed. (Hopefully then a host of new products won’t emerge, rendering all that collective knowledge obsolete! )

#7455 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

24/48 hours after spraying with 2pac the clear is substantially softer than say, after 10 weeks.

This is surely correct; in my reply to RightNut I’m referring to not worrying about how long you wait before level sanding and commencing the next phase of work. I haven’t had any problems with sanding out areas where clear had to be dripped in within a couple days of application (knock on wood); I *have* cursed myself for putting a cleared playfield on the back burner and then coming back to sand the dripped-in clear after a couple weeks when it had hardened more fully though!

#7460 2 years ago

I assume Vid himself will chime in on this, but if that was mine, I would re-glue the inserts using epoxy from the backside, taking care to level any that have raised. Clear on most playfield isn’t very generous to begin with, so hitting it with an extra coat would be a good idea in any event. Give the whole playfield a light scuff sanding and re-coat with clear. It’ll take clear of the cracks and the game will play even more nicely, and will be better protected from the ball to boot.

1 week later
#7489 2 years ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Welp. I guess I'm gonna do it right or not at all.

Words to live by!! You’ll be so much happier this way!

#7516 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I am not arguing with your process, I am just not sure I am ballsy enough to try it on this particular PF because other than this little chip, the rest of the PF is in really good condition and would hate to ruin this insert, especially it being so close to the player.

I can vouch for Vid's advice (not that his advice needs vouching for, lol) about using a chisel this way - a couple years ago I did a ST:TNG playfield restoration which had the same kind of clearcoat chipping as this, and just this winter I restored an Indiana Jones which also had this problem. In both cases I used a 1/2" chisel (with a good edge honed first), and it works very well - very controlled, as Vid mentioned. I can see where this would seem scary at first - you're being told "take a sharp thing and scrape the playfield with it" after all. But it's going to give you a much nicer result to get all that flaking clear removed first. You might scratch the surface of the insert a little bit as part of the process, but don't worry too much if you do. You can lightly sand the insert to minimize the scratch, and once the clear is on, surface imperfections like that will become far less noticeable. One thing to bear in mind is that you will want to fill in the insert with an eye dropper, so that you don't have a low spot on the scraped area. I sprayed, droppered, sanded and sprayed again. (I don't think anyone else mentioned this so far, but I also did a light scuff sanding on the whole playfield before shooting any clear, to promote better bonding. Also, on pinballinreno 's advice, I have been using adhesion promoter spray on the playfield before clearing - the most important places being bare inserts, but it's quick and easy to just shoot the whole playfield with it.

To echo what has already been said about mylar - I removed the mylar on the IJ and STTNG games I worked on using canned air (the so-called "freeze spray") and it really does work well. A hemostat is your friend if you don't want to freeze your fingertips as part of the process. Go slow and just encourage the mylar; if you're pulling it means you're being too conservative with the spray. I got a little bit too far ahead of the freeze at one point and lost some clear on the "Buried Treasure" insert, which meant having to scrape it and re-apply the lettering - not sure if that was my fault or if that clear would have separated anyway, given the same problem was presenting elsewhere on the playfield, but my advice as others have said is go slow, don't spare the freeze spray, and don't be too hard on yourself if you lose some clear on other inserts. All these things are pretty minor inconveniences and very fixable.

#7517 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I was thinking of setting up a booth in my basement, and enclose it with plastic, but I am sure the fumes will find a way to escape and the last thing I want is clear traveling in my HVAC...

I have been planning a spray booth for a while now. I've been consulting with the guy who has to date done much of my spraying for me, at a local cabinet shop. They've got a fancy booth, and much of the time I am content to let him handle this stuff *for* me, but much is contingent upon how busy things are in their shop, and when it comes to doing things like cabinet stencils, I don't want to ask that of the guy. Too much labor, and it needs to be *my work* in the end. Despite the fact that he's been great about shooting clear coat for me, there are times when it would be great to just shoot a layer and come back to it the next morning or whatever.

I'm planning to use a 12" explosion proof in line exhaust fan, which can then be ducted through a 14" stud bay without having to re-frame anything in the wall. 12" duct pipe will allow relatively unimpeded airflow (you want to keep bends in the ducting to a minimum.) I will be building a filter wall which the fan opening will be behind.

I have spent a *lot* of time pondering over how best to do it; then I found this guy on YouTube who built one super simply and dirt cheap. I'm not going to make something as flimsy as he did - I need it to last, after all, and be able to take some knocks. But the general idea is basically sound (though I could have told him right up front that a 4" air duct wasn't gonna cut it, lol.)
Anyhow, this is worth a look if you're pondering on a DIY spray booth:

2 weeks later
#7558 2 years ago
Quoted from DickHamill:

Apologies if this has been covered.
I have inserts on a Williams Stellar Wars that look okay when lit but there are "scratches" (perhaps between the decal and the plastic?) that are apparent when some of the inserts are unlit. These "scratches" are not in the direction of ball travel and they appear to be below the surface finish.
Do I need to scrape these inserts back to the plastic and then re-decal them after lock-in clear?
If so, should I attempt the perpendicular chisel method to remove the finish first?
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Those are from the factory when the playfield was drum sanded - that gets the surface perfectly flat; inserts and plywood veneer all at the same surface. The drum sander is one-directional (as opposed to a random orbit sander), a big machine with a belt that feeds the playfield through, similar to how a board is moved through a planer.

What you’re seeing is very ordinary and normal. I like to replace cupped inserts when I can, and it those sizes are available you could swap them out for new ones, which you’d sand out in such a way that they wouldn’t show scratches. But, that’s a lot of work. I personally would not bother worrying over those scratches. But if they bother you, the process would be to remove them and either replace with new or sand off the graphics and either sand them flat (making them thinner and potentially more brittle) or re-glue them and fill any cupping with clear.

Graphics, yes, you would re-apply using decals in between coats of clear.

#7560 2 years ago

Since setting myself up a while back with a Silhouette vinyl cutter, I’ve taken to redoing key lines and insert text with the airbrush.
Disadvantages are that it probably takes longer to do it this way. Advantages are that you can lay on enough black paint to cover nicely in one pass, and you can reproduce artwork which crosses over the insert and playfield in multiple colors pretty sharply. (That is to say, as in the example here, a true black background and a truly opaque red line would be harder to achieve using clear waterslide decal paper. White paper isn’t an option here unless you are OK with changing the look of the inserts, but I wanted to maintain the actual print-on-plastic look.)

I’m certainly not the first to use this technique but it seems worth mentioning here.

4B03A1C2-E5D1-413E-90F4-04E996C750A5 (resized).jpeg4B03A1C2-E5D1-413E-90F4-04E996C750A5 (resized).jpeg
Black outline and lettering is cut and it into position, masked, sprayed.
2021272D-1978-4E74-B06F-0C6CC24E6D16 (resized).jpeg2021272D-1978-4E74-B06F-0C6CC24E6D16 (resized).jpeg
Red “pinstripe” stencil applied and sprayed after black has dried.)
70210DBA-A2A7-497C-961C-058BBB9F72B3 (resized).jpeg70210DBA-A2A7-497C-961C-058BBB9F72B3 (resized).jpeg
I did these only two at a time because positioning all four would have been very hard to do accurately.
EA353DEA-76C6-4625-B8B0-6CA12CDE5BD0 (resized).jpegEA353DEA-76C6-4625-B8B0-6CA12CDE5BD0 (resized).jpeg
Here I am about to lay down the second stencil for the red.
7FD38C5A-1526-4B70-B2D4-DF9CFF33BECD (resized).jpeg7FD38C5A-1526-4B70-B2D4-DF9CFF33BECD (resized).jpeg
All four inserts with both red and black details reestablished.

Use *extreme caution* when pulling the stencil on fine details like this. Even on a well scuffed playfield, chances are good that fine lines like this can come up with the stencil. I lost a tiny bit of the 4x line, and cheated by finishing it with a detail brush. There will probably be a little crinkle in the next coat of clear which will need to be sanded out, but it will otherwise look fine when all is said and done.

#7569 2 years ago

More updates from the Cyclopes restoration...

I was cutting through the ball swirls on this playfield using ME & isopropyl alcohol, and at some point realized those swirls and planking were co-mingled. Translation: I had cut through the finish and the inks and was scouring off the finish.

It happens.

A word about “Cyclopes”...look you guys, whatever the opposite of Woke is, this game exemplifies it. Let’s just get that out in the air right now, OK? This playfield is straight up *nasty*, lol.

Anyhow...this...bondage bikini lady...the planking was really showing badly through the lower portion of this figure. Ball swirl is ground in dirt from the surface, but planking means cracks in the ink from *underneath*. So you’re kinda screwed when planking is in the mix with ball swirls.

I got on to using white water slide decals from another Pinsider’s thread for things like this. The toughest part is trying to match colors using your printer’s toners/inks, which are pretty darn different from silkscreen inks. I usually end up making a bunch of test prints on plain paper until I get something I don’t hate, swapping out different Pantone values just so I have a semblance of a systematic approach.

EB06F0A4-C3E6-4BA1-A71B-982E22DA45E5 (resized).jpegEB06F0A4-C3E6-4BA1-A71B-982E22DA45E5 (resized).jpeg

Yes, I settled on the blue not being a perfect match. You’d be amazed how well things blend once the playfield is populated and the lights are lit up and the glass is on and you’re playing the game. Overall, this is a pretty good match.

4D6B4813-6CE0-4509-BB49-56D1E272BA55 (resized).jpeg4D6B4813-6CE0-4509-BB49-56D1E272BA55 (resized).jpeg

I like to identify the colors each time I do a test print, so I know what direction my tests are going. I end up with a pile of tests. This was the last one, printed this time on white waterslide paper.

AD365E64-098C-4676-9B3F-28A683247D55 (resized).jpegAD365E64-098C-4676-9B3F-28A683247D55 (resized).jpeg

I have an issue with my Silhouette software that I’d like to get to the bottom of; it can easily cut out this decal perfectly, but it has to be printed from within its software. Silhouette can’t handle AI files, and something about the exported format tweaks the color palette. So…I had to cut this damn thing out with an Xacto knife. Vid has warned us not to do this, and he’s right - you’re going to get a rough edge somewhere that makes the decal hang up and potentially ruin itself on the way off the paper. It’s a major pain and yes, I had to do this twice. Second time laid down smoothly.

F3F5641D-848E-463C-AF83-F06645C4EE61 (resized).jpegF3F5641D-848E-463C-AF83-F06645C4EE61 (resized).jpeg

Here’s the decal in situ. Looking good.

75F182A7-E169-4B9A-9DBC-14B2A5FF2FED (resized).jpeg75F182A7-E169-4B9A-9DBC-14B2A5FF2FED (resized).jpeg

You can even see a bit of the planking through the image, just slightly. I like this, actually, because it allows the repair to blend in better with the rest of the art.

One drawback to this is that no home printer I have used ever throws down a really rich black.
So, after this decal I then need to print another which is only the black layer on a clear decal. Ideally would be to place that over the color decal, but I wasn’t sure that was going to work on something this large without messing up the color one. So, it got a coat of clear and the black will go on before the final coat. More pics later.

#7570 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

I was wondering why people would choose a stencil over paper for the inserts and viceversa.
I would think that the paper might encounter adhesion issues , ghosting etc and the stencil is just safer?
Can you tell me what cutter do you use for the stencils and how do you get the shapes into that system?

Waterslides definitely still have their place, but I am using them more sparingly these days. But for certain things they are really the answer. The vinyl cutter can only go so small on details, so sometimes it just isn’t the right way to go. White lettering is probably accomplished better using dry rub transfers once you get to a certain point, but the cutter is nonetheless very versatile. I wish it were possible to get someone local to make dry rub transfers; the price point would sting if they came back and something was wrong!

I use the Silhouette; I suspect the Crikut is pretty darn comparable for our purposes; Silhouette got slightly higher marks in the reviews I read but that probably doesn’t mean much. I work a lot in Photoshop because it’s easier for me, then I export files to AI to vectorize the graphics layer by layer. That step may be unnecessary some of the time but it’s just what I do now; vectorizing “de-pixelates” the image and makes everything smoother.
From there the file/s have to be exported in a format the Silhouette understands; I usually use TIFF.

#7573 2 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

What about exporting the file from AI to a .dxf format,

I’ll keep that in mind when saving files for stencils - I imagine a .dxf is way smaller than a .tiff! I always end up with 60 different files in different formats lurking on my external drive, probably never to be used again, lol.

#7574 2 years ago
Quoted from LynnInDenver:

If you're capable of doing a direct CMYK print to the printer, use "rich black", which throws around 40% coverage each of Cyan, Magenta and Yellow.

I haven’t seen an option for that on my setup. Doesn’t mean it isn’t there, but my printer (a Xerox phaser) has a whole rat’s nest of sub-options to navigate through. There are Image Adjustment settings which allow for saturation and darkness shifts (among other things); on a plain black I just bump both of those to maximum. On a color decal they introduce so much variability I’ve tended to leave them alone while color matching. Might actually make sense to bump them up while making tests…it’s always a decision tree I struggle with.

I’ve fantasized about buying some really nice printer at some point, but it seems like there’s not really a mid-point between consumer model printers that cost $300 and a commercial print shop version that costs an order of magnitude more and is the size of a VW. I go through this frustration every time I work on a playfield that needs this sort of technique.

#7577 2 years ago
Quoted from LynnInDenver:

Generally speaking, when I'm specifying a "rich" black, I'm setting it up manually in the art file itself

I want to understand this. I presume this is a function within AI but I haven’t heard of it before. Can you give specifics? Thanks!

1 week later
#7614 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Is it still acceptable? Should I try to flatten it more?

I swapped out a NOS “Warlok”
Playfield this winter. It had such a bow in it, I was worried it wouldn’t sit in the cabinet properly when I was finished. Indeed, the left hand hanger actually had to be pushed down into place, otherwise it sprung up from the lockdown bar.

A couple of days sitting in the cabinet “trained” the playfield into sitting basically flat. I’m sure if I put a straightedge on it, it would not be a plane. But the degree of warping isn’t enough to affect the ball’s travel. It was no problem.
I’ve seen people get passionate about the subject of putting the side rails back on to a newly cleared playfield, but honestly, even if you replace the rails with new hardwood ones, 1/2” x 1 1/8” thick strips just aren’t rigid enough to straighten a playfield, much less do so against the weight of everything hanging off of it.

All of which is to say, that playfield will be fine. Good idea to spray some extra clear on it. Remember to re-glue those inserts first with epoxy!

#7628 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Are there instructions here on how to reglue the inserts?
Do I have to remove the factory glue?

Check the topic index.

If inserts haven’t moved significantly, I don’t remove them. I mix up 5-minute epoxy and swab it around the perimeter of the insert, bridging the plastic and the plywood. Use a liberal amount of glue, short of being sloppy.
Mix small quantities and do 2-3 inserts at a time, so you don’t end up using gooey thickening epoxy, a messy hassle to work with.

If they have moved a lot, follow vid’s guide. Removing the old glue and re-seating the inserts always feels like the most Bomb-proof method to me, but it also comes with the most extra work - dripping in clear coat/extra level sanding, redoing keylining and insert lettering. If you only have some telegraphing through he keylines but the inserts are otherwise stable, re-glueing from the back side is less work. Often you can touch up key line cracks with a Molotow paint pen.

#7631 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

the inserts are absolutely perfect, nothing has moved.
Is it recommend to re glue them regardless?

Yes.

Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Suggest you scour through this topic over and over prior to any work, I know I did

Seconded.
Go to page one of this guide and read all of Vid’s posts - he starts with an intro and overview, goes all the way through finish bidding, and revisits a couple of topics. Read it all 3 or 4 times before you begin. I bet almost every pinsider who has done a successful restoration in the past decade started here.

#7638 2 years ago

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/warlok-nos-playfield-full-game-restoration-#post-6064320

Go to post #8 for a rundown of how I approached halftones last time I had to engage with them.

I tried all the other options and ended up purchasing a digital drawing tablet, so that I could use a pressure-sensitive stylus to “brush” in the halftone patterns using Photoshop brush tools. I haven’t found a better way to do this - it allows the greatest latitude on control of dot size and pattern distribution. It’s still a big pain in the rear, but I was able to produce better results this way than with any number of other gradient to halftone conversion methods.

2 months later
#7693 2 years ago
Quoted from joshmc:

I was going to leave the keylines until AFTER I had completed the major artwork. In terms of the keylines themselves, I'm not sure how to go about it. They're so fine, I cant imagine masking it up and doing it with an airbrush. How do people go about this?

Go to page one of this guide and re-read. Then re-read it again. Vid goes through this whole process in detail, using an F-14 Tomcat as a guide. Later era game but all the principles apply the same, and the order of operations is the same.

DO NOT spray clear without the inserts bein on glued in.

As for filling other holes in the playfield, place old bulbs in the lamp sockets, and tape over the other holes from the back side.

GI lamps often protrude from the surface. That will tear up your sandpaper when you level sand layer on. You may find it is ultimately easier to tear down the mechanics than to try to leave them. Plus you’ll discover all the busted part and frayed wires that need to be addressed, and have the opportunity to clean things thoroughly.
It’s more work than you bargained for, but is work worth doing.

1 week later
#7704 2 years ago
Quoted from vipe155:

I was just wondering since the playfields are silkscreened ink, and you want touch ups to be as flat as possible, if highly concentrated acrylic ink would work well. I also hate trying to get the right paint consistency for airbrush work and thought these would be easier.

This is a very interesting idea. These should spray beautifully, no? Do they clean up with water? Alcohol?
The idea of being able to do spot touch ups in a way that is thin and doesn’t Telegraph through the clear as badly has a LOT of appeal.

4 weeks later
#7727 2 years ago
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:

Did not know sandwiching decals was a thing. Can the insert just be painted from the back instead if one single decal is used?

It isn’t that big a deal. Putting decals on top of one another is a finesse thing but it can be done.

The bigger problem here is the white detail.

There are 2 ways that I know of to tackle this. First way is to print the decal on WHITE water slide decal paper. A Silhouette or Crickut vinyl cutter will cut the lettering just the way you need after printing. Alternately, you could try to cut it with an Xacto knife, but it’ll be hard to get a decent result that way. I’d probably try that first, with the caveat that, unless you are using a photographic inkjet printer, it’s going to be hard to get true, deep black.

Second way is to make a white layer stencil on the vinyl cutter and airbrush the white outline, then make a black layer stencil to airbrush the black lettering. (This is one of the reasons pin restoration is really expensive.)

I am going to be investing in a photographic inkjet printer in the next month. If you get stuck on this, drop me a line and I’ll see if I can help.

3 weeks later
#7761 2 years ago
Quoted from Insanity_Falls:

do I have any chance of saving this insert art

It can absolutely be done. The nice part about this is that you have specific edges to go to. That’s tremendously helpful.

First, scan the playfield once you have it torn down. You can fix a lot of stuff in pShop and AI even if you don’t have scans to work from.

I would remove the inserts completely, and sand the art off of them. Then re-glue them with epoxy; presumably some amount of movement of the inserts is to blame for the wear in the first place. While at this stage, get out the magic eraser and alcohol and work out those ball swirls, to the degree you are able.
Then, shoot your first layer of clear coat.

Sand out the clear. Use frisket masking and an airbrush to repaint the white on that ROYAL FLUSH banner. If it was me, I would probably do a second layer of airbrushing to restore the lettering using the silhouette cutter to make lettering stencils.

This next step is debatable, but I’d probably use frisket, cut out the white background of those cards, and spray a white layer down. Then, hit everything with the second coat of clear.

I would then proceed to do as Vid recommended - print white water slide decals for the card art and apply them. My thinking on doing a base layer of paint is that it will make for a more consistent look. White water slide decals aren’t super opaque, so you might see the transparent inserts behind the art even when it isn’t lit.
I agree with gdonovan - if you can’t find scans of the art work, just use a deck of cards and scale up the art to the print size you need. Purists will have a conniption fit at this suggestion, but honestly, they didn’t go with the nicest face card design anyway, and you could make a bit of an improvement there.

2 weeks later
#7779 2 years ago
Quoted from EvanDickson:

Any tips for installing spiral fin screws for pop bumpers?

This must be one of the most over-analysed steps in all of playfield work.

I agree with @pinballinreno, you don’t need to smack hell out of them.
In a restored playfield, the holes are already there, you just want to ream out the clear coat. I have never once worried about going further than just re-establishing the hole. No countersinking or slicing away the clear under the nail head. Just tap it in gently until you get to the spiral (I like spirals more than fins and replace fins if those were in the playfield originally, but that’s just me.) I use a lightweight rubber mallet and it is sufficient.

Then, go ahead and install your pop bumper bracket. This is a fine time to do it. Tighten down the screws gently, and watch the nail heads as you do this. You will see the heads seat themselves into the clear coat perfectly. When they are basically flush, stop. If it feels like it’s getting tight and the heads are a tiny bit proud of the surface, don’t worry about it. You’re done. Move on.

In a new playfield, if it isn’t pre-drilled, I start with a 3/32” bit, then do a bit of a countersink, and work my way up until the hole is the correct size. Sorry, I can’t remember which diameter that is, but basically whatever the diameter of the threads is, that’s what you’re after. (You can also do a test on a scrap of 1/2” plywood to establish that you’ve got it right. Go ahead and mount a coil bracket as a practice run.) Countersinking between bits slices the clear away from the hole, preventing the clear from lifting or crazing as you go to the next size. Honestly, it probably took longer to write all this out than it does to do it for real, lol.

Basically - this is not a difficult or scary step, it just needs to be approached in a controlled manner. It’s quite easy once you have a method figured out.

1 week later
#7787 2 years ago

So here is a problem I have had repeatedly.
After laying down frisket and doing my Xacto work, when I peel back the Frisket, it pulls up the clear coat with it! It’s happened a few times over the years, usually, like this, only in a small spot. I have successfully painted over these issues in the past (rather than de-spraying and re-sanding the whole playfield over it), but it is irritating and slightly worrying.

- I use low-tack Frisket
- I use adhesion promoter before shooting initial clear coat

Do others have this issue? It’s super annoying.

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#7791 2 years ago

I don’t see how you sand a playfield that’s 41 years old, where the paint is barely hanging on to begin with.

I clean everything as best I can and try to get rid of the topcoat with ME and alcohol. LOTS of prep time. I don’t go after every speck of ground in dirt from where stuff was screwed down if scouring it out seems like it will get down to the level of the adjacent art I’m trying to preserve.

When the playfield is cleared and I’ve dropped in around the inserts, the whole thing gets level sanded with 500 grit on the random orbit with a hard pad.

#7820 2 years ago
Quoted from Bam_Man:

Any recommendations on how to fix this area around the back right magnet?

Yikes!
Looks reparable, but you want to get it just right. It looks like the magnet post is below the playfield surface, when it should be flush or a tiny bit above. (Apologies in advance if I’m spelling out things you already know.) You want to be sure to file that rod smooth and flat, and round the corners when it goes back in, as well as making sure it’s adjusted to the correct height.

The plywood damage really sucks. You might be able to glue down some of it, but there’s no avoiding some epoxy or fiberglass resin repair in to restore the surface.

I would:
Get the playfield completely disassembled and cleaned up.
Scan this area.
Restore the wood around the hole. Opinions vary, including my own, but one approach would be to wrap waxed paper around a dowel to stuff the hole with something, then pour in some fiberglass resin. You only want a little bit; maybe put your waxed paper cylinder so that it come up to 1/16” below playfield surface. Once that’s hardened, drill through it with a small drill bit step up to a larger one until you get to where you can ream it out with a tapered reamer and/or sandpaper around a piece of dowel.
You’ll need to get the interior cleaned out well, then sand the surface flush. You will damage the art in this process (you could spray clear before the fiberglass to minimize sanding damage, but I question how well the fiberglass will grab onto clear coat), but once the hole is reestablished, you’ll start repairing the graphics.

Once the clear is down, you can either:
Mask and spray the yellow, clear again, then put down a water slide decal with only the red dots and black lettering, then clear on top of that
Or:
Make a decal using *white* decal paper which has the whole image - yellow, red, and black. These are usually harder to pull of as they are more difficult to blend in with the surrounding art. I’ve done this in certain applications, but the situation kind of has to be just right. Airbrushing remains a very powerful tool.

All that said, this is totally doable, and you’re helped by the fact that it’s a tucked away ball path, not right in the center of the playfield, so even if you don’t get a perfect blend it probably won’t matter once everything is put back together. But if you’re anything like me, you’ll still bothered if the repair is noticeable in any way, lol.

#7828 2 years ago

I just did a cursory search for “supplied air respirators” and got products that ranged from under $200 to over $1,000.
I’d love to know more about this. I’ve never looked into it and would welcome hearing from someone who knows the subject.

#7831 2 years ago

Currently working on a pair of Stern “Lightning” playfields.
I don’t know who it was who decided it would be nifty to have little accent lines *within* the key lines back in the day, but I’d like to throttle that person. Then, even more sadistically, the lettering is white *on top of* black?

Good god.

I really struggled with how to tackle this, but landed on a really good and elegant and almost efficient solution.

One option would be to make stencils, and airbrush the black, followed by the white, and finally the little yellow band. But that would demand *perfect* placement of all three stencils - difficult when using Gerbermask - and if you missed, you have to start all over. So, it would be only prudent to lock down each layer with its own coat of clear.
But that would be a lot of extra steps.

Our old pal water slide decals came to the rescue.

I made one sheet of white decals sized exactly to the original key lines (drawn in AI from my scans). I used white so that the yellow band wouldn’t just disappear. It also helps make the black more opaque. These were printed from and cut by the Sihouette.
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The cutter does a nice job, but it can never be *that* precise, to you end up with these little white edges. That’s OK, because we deal with that next.
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The second set of decals is printed on clear water slide paper, and the black area is slightly heavier than the previous run of decals. This set of decals is just big enough to cover all of those pesky white lines. The Silhouette cuts these, but I offset the cut by 1/64” so that I didn’t have to worry about the decals being undersized at any point (if the cutter was at all off center, as inevitably happens if you have it cut exactly, as we saw with the white decals.)
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Now the numbers go on. These were again printed from and cut by Silhouette, using opaque decal paper. I yellowed the white just slightly so that it wouldn’t *pop* too much against the rest of the whites on the playfield. These are quite fussy to position, but a steady hand and a gentle dab of the paper towel and they set nicely. A528D138-AF31-4CD8-8B20-3792F0AC3768 (resized).jpegA528D138-AF31-4CD8-8B20-3792F0AC3768 (resized).jpegAE7907FF-246E-4DA1-BFB5-62EA7C513838 (resized).jpegAE7907FF-246E-4DA1-BFB5-62EA7C513838 (resized).jpeg

This was a lot of effort to figure out, but next time I have to do a classic Stern with this detail, I know exactly what to do, and have the files ready to go to print out more.
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#7836 2 years ago
Quoted from pinBas:

why did you not create masking templates, airbrush the yellow and overlay (print) the black?

I couldn't see the up side to doing it that way. I thought about it and even started down that path, but then the following things became apparent/occurred to me:

- it's *really* time consuming to do it that way. You end up having to mask every single step of it individually. In theory, you would mask the whole area, all the keylines at once. In practice, you can't every register that many different things and get them all aligned, or at least *I* can't. The masking is too stretchy, and too tacky. It is possible to reposition it against a wet surface, but let's just say my confidence in that wasn't so high.
- Once you get one layer of paint done, you'd then need to align the next layer *perfectly* over the first. It's hard enough to align stencils for key lines (though I do like using black spray for this as it is nice and opaque), but to then have to align the white over the black and the yellow over the black...I didn't think I was gonna be able to do that perfectly this many times. Also, the gerbermask I use for stencils is an opaque product, making alignment that much harder. If they made a clear version that would be great, but alas...
- Because getting it perfect was so iffy, and taking into consideration that if you blow it, you have to wipe out *all* of what you have done and start from scratch, the only prudent way forward would be to do the black base layer, then shoot clear, do the yellow lines, then shoot clear, and do the white lettering, then shoot clear. Using decals in this way meant crushing this whole phase of work in one pass.

#7837 2 years ago

Also, did I mention I am doing two of these at the same time?
So if I can avoid any extra steps along the way, that's hugely advantageous.

#7839 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Tearing down my F-14 for a hardtop install, but now I’m looking at it thinking maybe I should restore this PF instead. What do you guys think? I will be replacing all the arrow inserts.
[quoted image]

Do it! I did this playfield a few years ago, it really wasn’t so bad. Glueing in inserts is the hardest part.

#7842 2 years ago
Quoted from Dono:

Just curious if having multiple layers of waterslide decals could potentially result in clear separation down the road. Has there been any precedent or experiences of this happening to anyone attempting this multi-layer decal technique, or repairs requiring larger decals?

According to @vid1900, the decals essentially dissolve into the clear, binding to it chemically. From experience, it isn’t like they completely dissolve to where you can’t see the outline of the decal if you look for it, but I have no reason to doubt that his advice is sound. As for stacking decals, I spoke with a representative from a decal paper manufacturer just this week, seeking advice for getting maximum black print onto the water slides. They specifically recommend stacking if you need extra color depth. That said, I didn’t ask about interaction with clear coat. What I *can* tell you is that I restored an F114 Tomcat in 2018 using double layered decals for the inserts and it looks as good today as it did 4 years ago. I also did a ST:TNG which had damage across the inserts in the same way, and the owner has not reported any issues. It seems to me like the decals are pretty stable in between those clear layers.

#7844 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Yeah that’s how I’m feeling. I hate dealing with halftones but otherwise it’s not a tough restore.

The nice thing about this, from what I can tell in this photo, is that your worst repair area (lower right) is fairly isolated - it has hard edges to stop at. That’s ideal.

The best tool I know of for dealing with halftones is the halftone brush plugins available in photoshop. These are pressure sensitive, so you really want a digital drawing pad or an Apple Pencil or other such tool when using them. I use an XP-Pen, which is on the more inexpensive end of the spectrum, though I often wish I’d ponied up for a Wacom.

My unsolicited advice to you would be to do *both* sides, even though the left hand looks pretty clean. I say this because there is no way you will ever get a perfect halftone pattern to match the existing one. It will be a really great looking repair if you go ahead and use frisket to mask off the area on both sides, spray down blue, clear, then apply two mirrored black halftone decals.
In theory you could actually accomplish all of this with a single decal printed on white water slide paper, and I’d be inclined to give it a try, but it’s more of a sure fire thing to use the two step method. From what can be seen in the photo, this playfield is well worth the effort. Yours is in better shape than mine was, in fact.

3 weeks later
#7867 2 years ago

Update on Lightning playfield restorations:
Pinsider Dono had asked about potential for issues resulting from stacked decals.
I have used that technique repeatedly in the past with no problems. Machines I restored 3 and 4 years ago still look fine, so issues.

But for whatever reason, my top insert decal rings separated from the lower ones.

I didn’t have the heart/was too mortified to photograph the issue, though for sharing and education, I wish that I had. Basically, the clear looked just fine, not ghosted at all, but there were air bubbles underneath the key line rings.

At first I thought I would inject clear under them. But that quickly started to look like it was going to make a mess and take forever.

So, I though the problem through again.
I want a black and yellow key line decal which has a true black to match the surrounding screen printing inks, and I don’t want any white edge from the decal background.
The solution should have been obvious from the start. Print the key lines slightly heavier than I want them, then tell the vinyl cutter to cut 1/64” *inside* the lines. No white edge.

Armed with this realization, I set about the unenviable job of sanding out all my previous work.

I sanded down through all the decals, including the base decal, which had held very firmly to the surface. I switched from 500 grit on the random orbit to using the “spent” paper and hitting the remnants of the decals by hand, rather than risk burning all the way through the clear. For good measure, I then shot a fresh layer of clear over this, sanded that at 1000 grit on the random orbit, and prepared my new decals.

I recently invested in an Epson medium format photographic ink jet printer. These inks are rated for 100 years against fading. It’s the only way I have seen to get a really solid black in one layer. It also is much easier to get a good color match using the full range of photo inks than the limited CMYK toners used in laser printing. So, the new decals were printed using inkjet.

Inkjet has some built in fragility compared to laser. Laser toners heat fuse to the surface, so your decals are actually pretty robust. Fold one over accidentally and there’s a good chance you can still use it.
Ink jet is much less robust. After printing, you have to give it at least an hour to dry completely before handling. Once dry, it must then be sprayed with a fixative. I use rattle can clear coat, as recommended by the waterslide decal manufacturer. Then the clear needs to fully cure. This all takes time and is way the hell less convenient than firing up the laser printer and just going to work. But: really good black and really nicely saturated colors. I’m sure I’ll end up using both printers in the future, depending on the application.

Anyhow - it worked. When you apply inkjet water slides, the fixative makes them a bit stiffer than what I’m used to, but it’s advantageous as they really slide off the backer pretty nicely, with less tendency to wrinkle. I have found, however, that if they *do* wrinkle, you’re likely to lose ink. It’ll just flake off. So prep multiples of anything you are going to need, in case you wipe out.
Also, it seems that Decal Set solution tends to want to lift the ink as well. But given that the decals lay flatter in the first place, I found that I didn’t need Decal Set anyway. Get the decal in position, and then just lightly dab it dry, with a patting motion rather than pulling the paper towel across the surface. They’re delicate.

There is just the tiniest ghost of a white edge where the decals were cut out, but it’s really not noticeable unless I’m right up on it. I’m calling it a win.

My question now is: this playfield has more layers of clear on it than I would prefer. I had wanted the decals to be deeper down in the finish, but now they are under only one coat. Part of me says scuff this out and shoot another layer, but that’s adding yet more clear to a surface which already has more than enough. Another part of me says level sand and buff it out. I’m a bit concerned about sanding through, though that’s probably uncalled for? Versus a level/scuff sand and final layer which puts the decals under a heavier layer. Advice on how to get to the finish line here?
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#7871 2 years ago

Thanks for the feedback.
I was hoping not to have to wait around on this damn thing any longer, but I think I knew that was now inevitable. I've been juggling projects all winter due to various supply chain setbacks and the like. Guess I'll still be doing that for a while longer! But it seems wise to be prudent and patient. No sense hitting the marks all the way through only to blow the landing.

I'm not worried about the clear being *that* thick, just trying to be mindful how much is ending up on there. I've had to use 5 to 6 coats more than once on demanding restorations, but I like to level sand in between.

Heavy sigh. Will update down the road once this is actually completely finished.

#7879 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

I would have drilled a clean hole and put in a hardwood dowel.

That would be my path as well.
Hardwood is key; a dowel is end grain, so it doesn’t grab wood screw threads as well as face grain.
This is especially important when the screws are going to have to hold the weight of a coil bracket, and deal with the stress of all that flipper action. I like European beech for this kind of thing. It’s not available in dowels as far as I know; I band saw some small square strips of it, then plan3 down rge corners, and chuck it in the drill press, which works as a quick and dirty turning lathe. Take some 120 grit sand paper and run it up and down the dowel while the press is running at moderate speed. You can dial in the diameter you need very efficiently that way. I’ve only ever had to do one repair that went all the way through the playfield (I’ve more frequently made little tapered wood plugs.)
A fine finish pull saw will trim the dowel flush on both sides, sometimes perfectly. A *sharp* chisel finishes the job if the saw didn’t cut it exactly flush.
Always, always, always pre-drill before driving a screw into such a repair!!

#7886 2 years ago

Full disclosure, my shop is a sometime cabinet shop, so things like thin strips of hardwood are lying around to start with.
The dowels at my local hardware stores are softwood junk. It’s just too simple to whip up my own using stuff that’s already sitting there.

I stand by the practice of sanding down a dowel using a drill press; with a torn out wood screw, the hole isn't dowel-shaped, it’s a taper, and you can put a taper on a dowel that you sand this way. (I try to ream out the hole some as well, to get good glue adhesion on a cleaner surface.)
Repairing torn out wood screws is the worst, and the highest stakes over time, so I really try to get those repairs done just exactly right. Titebond sets up in 30 minutes but I let these repairs cure over night just to be safe.

A couple years ago I had to plug a spinner hole that was in the wrong spot. I had to fill the hole and then cut away part of whatever repair I did because the factory hole wasn’t off by a full diameter, if that makes sense.The existing hole wasn’t an exact increment; it was, whatever, somewhere between 3/8” and 7/16”. Maybe that neato dowel shaver tool would have helped me out, but using the drill press I was able to take a larger dowel and shave it down until it was exactly just tight enough to fit with a generous application of glue. Then I was able to cut a new hole which partially removed my dowel repair, and it worked very well. Painted and cleared nobody would ever know it was there.
(In this case I used one of the cruddy softwood dowels off the rack at the hardware store, since it wasn’t going to get a wood screw and didn’t need to hold up to any stress.)

1 week later
#7894 2 years ago

Vid will surely have good advice for you and I’m sure he will get on here to make recommendations.
For my part, I think you’ll do well with full color white waterslide decals for some of the graphic areas which have halftones. It will be helpful (but not essential) if you have access to a vinyl cutter which can cut the outlines of the decals. The lettering such as Mothership Multiball can be created that way (and the vinyl cutter probably is indispensable toward that purpose.)

Sounds like the inserts have raised; I would probably remove them and either replace with new or clean them up and re-glue them. That would be my first step, after a thorough cleaning. Clean, insert work, clear coat, then assess where you want to do airbrush vs. decals.

You can do it! Take your time, there are some really knowledgeable people on here who will definitely help.

4 weeks later
#7912 2 years ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

After a successful airbrushing session I was met with a total mess - frisket left residue on every inch that it was laid down on.

Damn, man. I have had issues with residue also, and have not gotten a satisfactory answer as to why.
Ive heard “only use fresh Frisket”, but frankly I don’t see why that should make a difference.
The last couple rounds of masking, I used the exact product you linked to with no issues - switched to low tack some time ago; I am always very careful to burnish it down only minimally. Low tack is still a stronger bond than I want or need; I’ve also had issues with the clear pulling away upon removal (only pull it back, never up!)
I’m guessing that this stuff varies from batch to batch, mo other explanation Chas come along that really makes sense of this problem. I’ve tried different brands before. Sometimes it’s fine. Sometimes it isn’t. It’s maddening!

I used naptha to remove the residue, but even that can take off the paint. Alcohol will dissolve it instantly though. Maybe try a mild detergent, or simple green?

I’ve never heard of liquid Frisket until now; isn’t that by definition much harder to apply in the way we need it?

#7913 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

Scanned my playfield tonight, here’s what I’m dealing with…

If the dirt doesn’t sand out readily, I’d mask and paint it with semi-transparent brown paints. Make it look improved without trying for “perfect.”

The rest is more of same - Frisket, airbrush. I I would probably make a decal of the key line and maybe fatten it up a bit to make the rest of the repair easier (might save you having to repaint some areas immediately around the track.) After your paints, shoot clear, apply decal over that. I also might try shooting fresh white paint above where it says “MONSTER” to re-establish that word bubble, then have a decal to complete the rest of the worn off art after locking down the paint with the clear.

This looks doable to me.

#7915 2 years ago
Quoted from HydrogenHuman:

What methods are best to scan a playfield? Would it be possible to use a smartphone? I got a little confused when Vid said you could use an HP scanner to scan the playfield. I just pictured someone holding a playfield against a smaller scanner and that seemed very cumbersome, haha.

That’s what I do.
It’s a PITA, but it woks.
The old style HP frame scanners are terrific, but damned if I could ever coax one into working for me. After wasting a lot of hours with that, I went back to taking the lid off my Epson Stylus scanner and holding the playfield very still while scanning.
Note that it has a slight lip of about 1/8” above the glass. People think that results in a scan which is not one-to-one but the only problems I have had with that owed more to file formats than the scan itself. I use .tiff with good results.

The only large format scanning place within driving distance of me is 2 hours away and they charge $200 per scan. It would be great but I just can’t justify it so far.

#7923 2 years ago
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:

I used liquid frisket when airbrushing parts of the aqua blue water on my playfield.

Well, damn! There’s no arguing with those results!
I’d like to investigate that further…So, you’re applying a pretty small amount of the liquid frisket, just in the immediate area you need to mask? Not covering larger areas? I admit I’m having a little bit of trouble envisioning the process…
The results look spot on - nice work!

#7924 2 years ago
Quoted from radium:

I think if I don’t remove the bad/dirty wood, the clear is going to chip away quickly because of dirt and silicone underneath. That means I’ll need some kind of filler to get it flat.

I would be concerned about going too heavy on the sanding, is all. But given that this part of the playfield wears pretty badly, reinforcing the wood fibers with a resin filler might be the best thing for it. Share pics of your progress!

1 month later
#7985 1 year ago
Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

First, you really need a laser printer. I have an inkjet printer and from what I read inkjet ink tends to fade (unless today's inkjet printers have better ink).

Options: you can buy a laser printer for pretty light money in the overall scope of how much it costs to do good pinball restoration work. But if you aren’t planning on doing this several times that option may not feel sensible.

- inkjet printers vary a lot. The photographic ones by canon and Epson use inks that are rated not to fade for 100 years. That plus the UV protection offered by the clear coat and you’re pretty good to go. BUT, those printers are much more costly than a laser printer. Just putting it out there in case you happen to be into photography or know someone who is. (Other thing to be aware of is that you have to use a fixative to bond the inkjets to the decal paper, and allow it to dry. A real PITA compared to using laser, which you can apply immediately.)

- How much white do you need? Is this really an issue?
White waterslide paper works very well, and it’s a good bet when printing black. I use a vinyl cutter when making complex decals, and there’s a big learning curve between it and making Illustrator files that give the result you need. The print and cut feature is a very good tool, but you have to introduce extra bleed so that you get only the printed area once you slide off the decal - it can’t follow the contours of the printing precisely, so allow 1/32” bleed and it can then cut inside those lines. It’s a lot of work.

Before I set myself up with 2 printers and a vinyl cutter, I used to go up the street to the copy shop and have them print my decals for me. Pro printers lay down better black - but if you’re doing inserts, you should still be prepared to have to do 2 layers of decals to get decent opacity.
In that case, do a clear layer between them; this winter I tried stacking decals without an intermediate clear layer and they separated under the finish. Had to sand it all out and do it over.

“If it was easy, everybody would be doing it!” But it is totally learnable!

#7988 1 year ago
Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

One of them said they would need a set of the decals that I purchased (they are $50). They would charge $73. So, total $123 for a set of water slide decals.

This seems absurd to me. I mean, OK, the place you send them to wants to be paid for their labor, but if you don’t own a flat bed scanner, it’s a cinch that somebody you know has one. At that point you just need to bring a thumb drive to the local copy shop (or Staples if that’s what’s around.)

Getting a set of waterslide decals just shouldn’t be that big of a stumbling block.

#7990 1 year ago
Quoted from rdrapeau3171:

I don't think Staples does water slide decals though....am I wrong?

You’ll need to supply the decal paper (it’s easily purchased via Amazon or other retailers.) Buy more than you think you need. Misprints are a reality, as are wipeouts when applying the decals. And when doing inserts you often have to double the decals to get decent opacity.

You may have to explain yourself to them a bit. If you’re printing color, matching can be a pain, but for just black it’ll be easy.

#7991 1 year ago

Oh, and be sure you buy the right variety of paper - clear laser printer paper if you’re doing keylines and going to the copy shop.

3 weeks later
#8015 1 year ago

So, has anybody found a *reliable* brand of Frisket masking, or an alternative product?
My luck with it has been WILDLY variable, and I haven't always been able to purchase the same brand.
I always order low-tack, but that's inconsistent. The latest batch is another of those that leaves sticky residue behind, which is impossible to remove without risking the very paint you just put down, and which you never find all of until you clear coat and it rears its ugly head and you have to just bury it in the next application.

I'm so damn sick of this, it makes doing that part of the restoration very shaky and needlessly so. I've had this problem with actual Frisket brand film as well as generics.

#8018 1 year ago

"Seth,
I purchased this Frisket from TCP Global. I did not have any problems with it."

Screen Shot 2022-06-29 at 8.39.52 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2022-06-29 at 8.39.52 PM (resized).png
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

1 week later
#8024 1 year ago
Quoted from CryptKeeperAUS:

I recently applied a playfield overlay that has now been cleared locally with 3 coats.
Can feel the printed lettering sitting proud of the insert areas and small valleys were there is no overlay ink on inserts. The ink on the overlay medium probably sits a bit higher than the original playfield paint I'm assuming so very hesitant to wet sand this flat and risk hitting the overlay. The playfield was prepped properly and all inserts flat and flush prior, PF cleared and sanded before applying the overlay.
After an 800 grit prep, would I get away with just building up insert areas with 2k by syringe, then sanding down? The overlay is now nicely trapped between clear coats, just very nervous to sand this down too much and rather just build up over the inserts.
[quoted image]

I would probably just leave it alone at this point.

Droppered in 2PAC doesn’t sand out so easily, you’d have to spend a lot of time spot-sanding, which won’t make things flat *either.*
The clear is exaggerating the surface imperfections. In theory if there was enough coating, you would be able to level sand and get to flat before burning through, but that’s theory. You’d probably end up sanding out the lettering before hitting the low spots.

You could definitely diminish the exaggerations, maybe even get the high spots pretty flat, but I wouldn’t try for flat. A bit of sanding followed by buffing will cut the thickness some, which isn’t always a bad thing. And the thing is: the game will still play beautifully even if the surface has this amount of unevenness. Once it is reassembled and lights are lit and it’s under glass, it won’t matter any more that the surface has some unevenness. None of it will affect the ball’s path.

1 week later
#8049 1 year ago

This both look very salvageable to me.
Lots of work, but unless I’m missing something I think you could do a pretty solid job of it without any scans. Frisket and airbrush (if you can find good quality Frisket, that’s been a problem for me lately…)

#8053 1 year ago
Quoted from joshmc:

Besides, at the very least I would need a decent scan of a playfield that’s in good condition. No one seems to have one.

Much depends on your level of skill, but have you considered scanning the existing playfield and fixing things digitally?
You can make stencil images that can then be cut by a Silhouette or Crikut.
Would take some doing, but if you’re up for the challenge, it can absolutely be done.

#8055 1 year ago

…or for that matter you can make full color white-backed waterslide decals. That can be tricky to pull off but the option is there.

#8059 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

can imagine buying a printed playfield image and applying it myself, then clear coating ovet it.

That seems far superior to hardtops.
I’ll be interested to see how this shapes up going forward. I take satisfaction from restoring playfields, but it’s a time vortex.
Consider me highly intrigued.

#8083 1 year ago

On the subject of the toner adhering to the surface, would it not make sense to shoot a layer of clear first and then do the transfer, then a topcoat? I understand we’re talking about a different animal from Createx paints or decals.

In my experience it’s pretty hard/impossible to get a black that matches playfield ink black, but perhaps that’s less of an issue with a large format professional print shop machine.

In any case, this sounds really interesting.
I’m curious about the capacity of the smaller time restorers and hobbyists to draft full playfields that lay out 1 perfectly. I’d be up for the challenge of tracing/re-drawing a full playfield in individual color layers - I do it all the time when making decals. But it would presumably be a Thing To Do for me to be certain it lays out and aligns properly.
Anyhow, some very interesting potential here, and I look forward to learning more.

2 weeks later
#8100 1 year ago
Quoted from Tokkentakker:

Any thoughts? Also any recommendations on buying a good laser printer for this task without breaking the budget?

I used a $300 Brother home office laser printer which performed decently, but as Vid says, the color output might not be so great for what you need. In general though, $300-$350 seems to be enough to get you an adequate printer for basic decals. I would add, though, that the Brother printer ate itself alive when I ran one too many decals in a session and it wrapped itself around the fuser drum. You really can’t do a lot of them at a time. I replaced the Brother with a Xerox which is twice the size and is a complete pain in the ass to use. So avoid those.

You may want to look into a Crickut or Silhouette cutter for this project. You’ll be able to cut very accurate masks and repaint all these details. Down side is, you would likely have to apply clear in between layers, as aligning the masks depends on setting the surface so that you can move them around (the previous paint wont play well with this treatment.) But the up side is very clean curves and number cutouts. And the opacity of airbrushed paint is much better than any decal, even doubled up.

1 month later
#8144 1 year ago

I have read a couple of automotive threads about using an infrared heater to actually warm the physical surface to be sprayed, in colder conditions/spray booths without heated makeup air (I’d wager that describes anyone on this forum who isn’t taking their playfields to a professional body shop.) Something to consider as we head out of summer.

I wonder also if parking the cleared playfield under an infrared heater might be advantageous to speeding cure time, for people working in hard to heat spaces? My shop is usually around 65 degrees in the winter months and I haven’t had any trouble repopulating playfields relatively quickly, but I sometimes wonder if some heat curing wouldn’t be advantageous just in general?

1 month later
#8187 1 year ago
Quoted from joshmc:

Does anyone know how I can repair this kind of damage? It’s very superficial (not deep at all) but would like to fix it

The tough thing about that is, of course, not damaging the art while sanding down to the level of the wear without burning through the top veneer layer of the plywood.
Slow work. You have to sand with the grain, otherwise you’ll get unsightly cross-grain scratching that will really pop once you apply a finish. You could try a detail sander like the Fein Multimaster, but there’s a real danger of burn through, and it will be tough to keep from hitting the perimeter of the art work. I would think hand sanding *with the grain* using 150 grit would be the place to start. If that cuts through to clean wood, do a quick pass with 220 before cleaning the surface and applying a finish.
Amber shellac would probably be the best bet for a good color prior to clear coating.
Let us know how it goes!

#8195 1 year ago
Quoted from joshmc:

how do I know what direction the grain is running in?

On playfields it always runs lengthwise. See in that Fast Draw photo, the lines in the wood grain are primarily going lengthwise? You want to sand accordingly - sand in the lengthwise direction, not across. You’ll be tempted to go cross-grain because that would be faster, but don’t do that. You’ll make unsightly cross-grain scratches which will look very nasty indeed once the shellac hits it.

Quoted from joshmc:

I’m curious: how do you apply this stuff? (Which isn’t cheap btw)

I’d probably use a disposable sponge brush. You’ll find it dries *very* quickly, so you’ll want to keep moving and maintain a “wet edge.”
I don’t know if you can get it in Australia, but Zinsser shellac is a pretty common hardware store offering where I live.
I haven’t priced out shellac flakes but Zinsser isn’t that expensive. It’s sold in smaller size cans (though you’ll still have enough left over to refinish your kitchen chairs, lol.) Zinsser is already mixed, but it’s kind of thick, so cutting it with spirits is still a good idea.

1 week later
#8250 1 year ago

I agree that the most sure fire method to ensure the post stays put long term is to now swap it out for one that attaches with a nut from below. Even with a hardwood dowel, the hole is going to be weaker than it would otherwise have been. Granted it isn’t getting slammed in the line of fire (any post that is should *definitely* not be wood threaded, I change them over all the time from factory), but a through-bolted connection will put the worry to rest for good.

I’m a recovering cabinet maker; whenever you pre-drill (and you should always pre-drill), make sure that the bit is the diameter of the core of the screw. The threads should be cutting a path but the body of the screw should not be getting any resistance. When in doubt, test it on a piece of plywood or hardwood scrap. It should drive comfortably without excessive force and when it’s seated it should be very firmly in place.
Not trying to make anyone feel dumb, not at all, just passing along something I learned in the cabinetry realm, it’s never steered me wrong.

1 week later
#8257 1 year ago
Quoted from joshmc:

I’m wondering if there a better way of creating a path for vectors, particular for letters and numbers, text on the playfield (circled)

Someone else may have a speedier process, but this is what works well for me:

- open scan in Pshop. Use magic wand tool to select all of a given color. Open a new layer. Use the eye dropper to select the color from background layer, then use the bucket tool in your new layer to create a big splash of color out of your magic wand selection. This will be rough and ugly.

- repeat for however many colors you want to repaint. Each color in its own layer.

- using a digital drawing tablet, use the pen tool to fill in missing areas and to smooth rough patches. Pay attention to the edges, you want them well defined.
Name your layers according to color. You’re basically recreating silkscreen layers.

- save the file with layers intact (pshop will ask you how you want to save.)

- open the file in AI. Use image trace to vectorize your layers, one at a time. You will probably have to use the smoother tool to iron out the bumps. If you took your time in pshop, your work at this stage will be minimized.

- that’s it. Save each layer as its own file, exported to whichever file format the silhouette prefers (I like .tiff as it never creates scaling problems.)

#8259 1 year ago

If you are reproducing multiple layers using stencils cut on a vinyl cutter, this process makes it logical to my mind - mimics the original screen process.

Using AI might only really be necessary when printing decals. Crisp lines that look original vs. pixelated graphics. I’ve had to do some complicated decals which then get cut out using the silhouette. Halftones introduce another curve ball - you can’t vectorize those.

Basically if I’m putting in the time working digitally, I like to make a file that gives me the option of recreating everything layer by layer. I find that my decals end up looking way better this way, and it’s what you need to do to get good stencils. I can get a pretty smooth workflow going, but it may not be something that others want to delve into.

2 months later
#8302 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Brush this stuff on thick enough to cover brush strokes, it will cover almost anything and is not as finicky as P2K, no respitator or spray booth needed, just brush it on:

Holy crap, that’s a potential game-changer.

I’ve always been anxious about spraying clear in winter. I have a booth but don’t have heated makeup air, so the temp dips while the booth is running.

If this looks just as good as 2PAC *and* is less finicky, I could see switching over once and for all, at least for playfield work.

2 months later
#8370 1 year ago
Quoted from jazc4:

Could I do my first layer of clear and then build up the inserts with clear? Or does the fact they are sunken mean they need to be removed and reglued?

Remove and re-glue them. You’ll probably find that they don’t put up much of a fight. Skipping this step is ill advised.

Re-glueing inserts really isn’t that big of a deal. Like everything else in playfield restoration, it takes some time, but it really isn’t difficult.

Dripping in clear to level inserts can work, but good luck sanding things flat. I tried that method on a game that had printing on the inserts that I didn’t know how to reproduce (I know how to do it now!), and in sanding the clear flush, it got warm enough that it de-laminated, resulting in the need to carve that away and go backward. It worked out but it was a real drag.

Re-glueing gives you the chance to get things far more level. You will certainly need to drip in clear later in the small gaps. There’s every likelihood that you’ll need to fill a couple that moved a bit lower than flush while they were clamped up. But the less dripping in you have to deal with, the better, in my experience.

#8374 1 year ago
Quoted from WalrusPin:

Does anything need to be done from this guide as a final step for a replacement playfield (say CPR) before installation?

I’d be curious to know how many people add another topcoat before swapping a CPR.
I’ve done it on a few of them, particularly older ones where I could still feel the veneer surface texture, it really seemed called for.
On the other hand, the Meteor I bought last year for my own machine had what looked to me like a pretty robust clear coat. Some people might have been inclined to sand and buff it, but I barely have time to do my own projects as it is so I was fine with using it “out of the box.” It plays fast and looks nice.

I’d also be interested to hear more from people with professional experience using clear coat on the topic of “dimpling.” Opinions seems to be pretty split on this; my take has always been that the steel is harder than the most cured 2PAC or the densest plywood veneer and so dimpling is inevitable. But I also hear about other playfield finishers using months long processes that ostensibly eliminate the dimples.

I personally am not bothered by dimpling of the clear and feel that the “problem” is over-emphasized. But I also want to fully understand the products and processes I use and employ best practices. This subject seems to be forever under debate.

5 months later
#8512 7 months ago
Quoted from BMGfan:

The vinyl cutter can cut the 1/4" tall letters no problem but weeding them without ripping the fine inner details is going to be tough (that's what happened on the "E".

I recently switched to a 60 degree Graphex blade for my vinyl cutter. It’s cheap and does a much better job than the auto blade included with the Silhouette.

The other thing to learn is transferring the stencil to its position first, *then* weed it out. Much easier. Use a dental pick to get the tiny bits out of the letters.

I’ve also taken to using Oramask because it is translucent and easier to position. If you wet the area first, the stencil can be positioned exactly, and it removed easily (which means far less risk of the adhesive pulling away your clear coat foundation.)

There’s a whole Silhouette Owner’s thread here on Pinside, very helpful and full of impressive work.

3 weeks later
#8547 6 months ago
Quoted from BMGfan:

I was under the impression I was supposed to level it first! Sorry if I'm being a bit dumb, I've read the whole thread but it's a LOT of information!

It is a lot, and even after having done many restorations I still struggle to make sure I’m hitting all the points in the correct order. It’s a complex process.

One product I like to use are the Mirka scuffing pads. They say they are 360 but they aren’t as aggressive as 360 sandpaper. They are more like scotch brite. In any case, for de-glossing clear and getting into low spots they are excellent and won’t burn through too easily.

Mirka 18-118-447 25 pieces 4 1/2-Inch by 9-Inch Very Fine Scuff Pads 360 grit, red, black, grey, beige https://a.co/d/7G0SVC3

2 weeks later
#8584 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Repaint all the white, then decal the lettering back, clear over the top

Repaint white, *clear*, decal lettering, clear again.

You taught me too well to let that slip, Vid

#8587 5 months ago
Quoted from WalrusPin:

Have any of you had any luck soliciting a collision shop?

Before I was set up for it I used the local cabinet shop; they have a full time finisher and a very sweet spray room.

Could also see about a custom body shop. I imagine you’d have better luck with one of those guys than with a bigger shop, but you never know.

#8590 5 months ago
Quoted from WalrusPin:

What's the rough going rate if it's prepped?

My guy worked pretty inexpensively.
Usually a playfield would involve ~4 coats, and he’d charge me around $125 once it was finished.

1 month later
#8633 4 months ago
Quoted from stlkevin02:

Anyone have any tips for what to do with these inserts?

I would try to find someone who could 3D print reproductions of those. From your photo those are way to deformed at this point to be decently anchored to the playfield.

Should be pretty easy for someone with a decent entry level ability with 3D software and a printer.

#8639 4 months ago
Quoted from stlkevin02:

Will the clear just fill up that indent in the middle and cause a hill instead of it being flat on the inside?

It might. I’d maybe mask it and then pull the masking before the clear sets up.
Could also just spray and see. If the clear affects the action, you can always scrape it back with a sharp chisel.

1 month later
#8681 3 months ago
Quoted from joshmc:

It also became apparent that the Cricut stencils for letting dont work all that well. They lack detail and sharp edges which looks poorly when painted. I'll therefore be going with decals.

I have had good results with lettering using the Silhouette vinyl cutter and an aftermarket 60 degree cutting blade. The steeper/pointier angle results in cleaner cuts on smaller, more detailed work. Great for insert lettering and eliminating decals as much as possible.

#8682 3 months ago
Quoted from Spunky1562:

How thick should the clear coat be? My factory coat plus new coat is .8 mm thick.

That seems crazy thick to me.
This is a topic of intense disagreement, but these days I’m trying to use a less-is-more approach, precisely for fear of this sort of delamination. I’ve seen posts by HEP where he sands down super thick clear coat jobs and starts over because the thick clear is brittle at that point and prone to cracking.

I haven’t heard it discussed on this thread but Vid at one point recommended aiming for 3 applications of clear over the course of a project (though sometimes more are needed for one reason or another.)
Another big variable is how much clear to mix per coat. Instructions on the clear coat recommend one coat followed by a second coat 15 minutes later. I don’t know of a hard and fast rule for calculating how many ounces per square foot of surface, though.

1 month later
#8745 49 days ago
Quoted from topkat:

Is there a good technique to repaint text?

Lots of us these days are using vinyl cutters to make small stencils for this sort of thing.
Similar workflow, you can use a scan and either touch up the lettering digitally or just redo it in pshop or illustrator after identifying the font. If I were doing this I would touch up the blue and probably go right over the existing lettering, then put down the stencil and repaint the text.
Decals are useful but hard to get passable color matches, and there’s more of a risk of delaminating down the line. I still use them but try to be judicious and find alternatives whenever I can.

#8759 46 days ago
Quoted from RightNut:

Dumb question. I’m sure it’s been covered. I put down frisket. Cut out shapes to spray , and the stuff left most of the adhesive behind on the playfield. Which took like an hour to clean up. Ugh.
What am I doing wrong. Is this the wrong kind?[quoted image]

I’ve just about given up on Frisket. Over tried every variety I can get hold of and they all leave residue behind now, which is a total deal breaker. When first started restoring pins back in 2017 I never had that problem, but it’s been worse and worse to the point where I’m seeking a replacement masking film. There are some automotive options that might do the trick. In a pinch, Oramask can be hand cut, but it’s better to put it down on a wet surface as its adhesive is more tenacious than you want, and can lift the clear. applied wet it will stay put but come back up very easily.

Frisket is, into me, no longer a usable product. It’s a real drag.

#8765 44 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

What is Mr. Hutchens using?
He buys it by the HUGE 4' roll....

I have been wanting to find out for a while.

I totally agree with his approach, cover *everything* when doing touch ups. I will admit to having thought I had everything masked off, only to have a little line of paint appear that I didn’t see until I clear coated, where the edge of my craft paper and masking tape hadn’t covered. Those big rolls allow you to just cover the playfield completely.

I thought I remembered him saying in a post that he didn’t want to tell everybody what he was using because it is in short supply and he was anxious about being able to get it. That may be old information (or a POV that came out of pandemic supply chain days, perhaps.)

In any case, I would like to switch to some version of what he’s been using. Making stencils with a vinyl cutter can be great, but often it’s still more efficient just to cut Frisket with a blade - as long as it comes off cleanly. There’s nothing worse than doing an elaborate and time consuming cutting job with the blade, only to have a bunch of adhesive come off the film, and find yourself trying to VERY GENTLY massage it off using a freaking Q-tip dipped in naptha. Rub too hard and you’ve erased your work. It also makes you feel like you should spray clear before going further with paint repairs, for fear that some next Frisket layer will deposit sticky on your prior paint apps. Thats no way to work.

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