Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider pin_fandango.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Quoted from vid1900:Your sharp chisel quickly makes large flakes.
You will get a feel for the crunchiness of the topcoat, the insert itself will feel like slippery plastic.
[quoted image]
I dont understand what is happening here in this picture, how is the chisel used exactly...
also commenting so I can track this thread...
Quoted from pinballinreno:I tried all those ideas and was not impressed at all.
I would definitely try it on any playfield. If in doubt start with a small area first and go from there. Its a kind of citrus oil compound. Its not a solvent.
My sign/car/vinyl guy turned me on to the rapid-tac adhesive remover.
They use it by the gallon at his shop and swear by it for removing old glue.
I tried it and absolutely LOVE it.
I use it all the time on anything sticky like ramp decals or just about anything pinball related.
It works faster and better than anything I have ever used.
Old dried up mylar glue seems to absorb it until it turns to a rubbery gel that slides off with a plastic razor. Its fsacinating to watch the first time you use it, its like magic.
You spray it on, wait 60 seconds or so and easily scrape off the glue.
Smeary remnants are easily cleaned off with a little a little more rapid-tac and then a little naptha.
I removed the glue on a full mylar funhouse playfield in 5 minutes.
Once you try it you will never go back to the other time consuming alternatives.
Could you please share a photo of the can and or brand name? 
Thanks vid1900
Another question, I have been trying to find this in the thread but I have been unsuccessful.
I found the post with the recommended gear needed for clear coating: mask, goggles, etc, but there was no mention of ventilation which I presume is a big issue, when doing this at home.
The obvious solution would be to wear a mask and doing this in the garage but I was wondering if anybody has attempted to set up a booth somewhere in the house and spray during the cold month in the warmth of my home shop.
I was thinking of setting up a booth in my basement, and enclose it with plastic, but I am sure the fumes will find a way to escape and the last thing I want is clear traveling in my HVAC...
We are only spraying a small playfield so I am wondering if I could get away by doing this in a very enclose area (as tight as possible with plastic tarps, plastic sheet, etc) and just get it done...Should I be expecting a lot of overspray to escape this paint booth if no ventilation fan is used?
thank you vid1900 and @pinballinreno.
Asking because I just got this game (pic attached) and it has 2 PFs and the one in the game now is covered in mylar, and one insert is chipped (see in in the pic, green in color).
I am planning on swapping the PFs as the other one is a NOS never used and I am hoping to repair this and eventually use on a different Indy.
If I understand correctly the best approach to fix this chip is by filling it up with clear and then level sand, then reclear...
The other thing that I will need to do is remove all the mylar that someone decided to put on pretty much EVERYWHERE on the PF, everything is covered with pieces of mylar. I am not sure how these will fair but I am hoping that nothing will be pulled off when removing it.
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance, this thread is amazing can't thank you enough for all the information I have been gathering.
876caf5d0f31f0525b336faf6d38ad57b66c8c9d (resized).jpgQuoted from pinballinreno:Freeze spray is the best first choice.
Heat works, but is way more dangerous and can lift inserts and artwork.
I prefer the freeze spray now.
I believe Freeze spray is canned air, is not it?
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:thank you vid1900 and pinballinreno.
Asking because I just got this game (pic attached) and it has 2 PFs and the one in the game now is covered in mylar, and one insert is chipped (see in in the pic, green in color).
I am planning on swapping the PFs as the other one is a NOS never used and I am hoping to repair this and eventually use on a different Indy.
If I understand correctly the best approach to fix this chip is by filling it up with clear and then level sand, then reclear...
The other thing that I will need to do is remove all the mylar that someone decided to put on pretty much EVERYWHERE on the PF, everything is covered with pieces of mylar. I am not sure how these will fair but I am hoping that nothing will be pulled off when removing it.
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance, this thread is amazing can't thank you enough for all the information I have been gathering.[quoted image]
any thoughts on repairing this chipped insert? just filling it with clear and sand, reclear... ?
anything else?
Quoted from vid1900:The new clear will be "crystal clear" compared to the old cloudy clear.
So you probably want to carefully scrape all the cloudy clear off the center of that insert, leaving the black keyline (so it does not look like half&half)
The insert being **all crystal clear** is much less conspicuous than half clear - half cloudy
If that was a $$$$$ restoration, you would then put a thin piece of rice-paper over the insert to give the entire thing the same cloudiness.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1739794
I saw this post earlier in the thread and was curious about this process, you had responded to me with how the chisel is used I am still not sure if what I am seeing if what I am supposed to see but I think you make just scrape the perimeter of the insert with the chisel... This is scary to me as I feel if will leave a very uneven surface full of craters.
I am not arguing with your process, I am just not sure I am ballsy enough to try it on this particular PF because other than this little chip, the rest of the PF is in really good condition and would hate to ruin this insert, especially it being so close to the player.
So I was hoping for a less risky approach, please correct me if I am off here:
I am planning on clear coating the whole PF anyways, so these are the steps I was thinking...
Sand the Insert lightly to get some tooth, including where the crack is
fill the whole/crack with syringe, make a little clear 'dome'.
Give it day to dry, then, level sand.
Clear the entire PF
Would that work?
Am I crazy? didn't somebody make a WORD file with all of VID's posts from this thread...
This thread is so good but it is hard to navigate from within the forum, if somebody can guide me towards the .DOC that I think I saw someone talking about, I will be very thankful.
thanks!
Quoted from sethbenjamin:I have been planning a spray booth for a while now. I've been consulting with the guy who has to date done much of my spraying for me, at a local cabinet shop. They've got a fancy booth, and much of the time I am content to let him handle this stuff *for* me, but much is contingent upon how busy things are in their shop, and when it comes to doing things like cabinet stencils, I don't want to ask that of the guy. Too much labor, and it needs to be *my work* in the end. Despite the fact that he's been great about shooting clear coat for me, there are times when it would be great to just shoot a layer and come back to it the next morning or whatever.
I'm planning to use a 12" explosion proof in line exhaust fan, which can then be ducted through a 14" stud bay without having to re-frame anything in the wall. 12" duct pipe will allow relatively unimpeded airflow (you want to keep bends in the ducting to a minimum.) I will be building a filter wall which the fan opening will be behind.
I have spent a *lot* of time pondering over how best to do it; then I found this guy on YouTube who built one super simply and dirt cheap. I'm not going to make something as flimsy as he did - I need it to last, after all, and be able to take some knocks. But the general idea is basically sound (though I could have told him right up front that a 4" air duct wasn't gonna cut it, lol.)
Anyhow, this is worth a look if you're pondering on a DIY spray booth:
Thank you very much for these 2 last posts, very much appreciated!
looking for some advice here. I will be doing my own clear coating because 'reasons' and I will be following Cary Hardy's advice:
He is using a harbour freight paint gun and a small compressor. I do not need nor I am interested in owning a big ass compressor so I am looking at doing what he did, however, I am confused as to what the real requirements to run the gun are...
Does anybody know what the CFM of the compressor he is using are?
I want to buy the smallest compressor possible and the most portable one, so would be interested in using one with the same specs, but he did not say the model nor CFM it was rated for.
I just do not want to buy one that is not going to cut it...
what an awesome thread this is, I have not finished all the pages yet as I have been busy with work. All that to say @vid1900, thank you very much for your previous and ongoing contributions to the forum.
Quoted from vid1900:I use the Woodcraft extractor, then tap in a 1/4" wood dowel plug, then drill the pilot hole, and re-install the post.
You don't even wait for the glue to dry, it's tight.
You can do it from topside or bottom, depending if the repair is hidden by a post or not.
Even if I did not do it myself, I find many playfields have old screw shafts stuck in them.
[quoted image]
https://www.woodcraft.com/products/screw-extractor-1-4
This guy is using a big 3/8", but you'll understand how it works:
are these going to make a hole through? so these would only work for those situation when the repair is hidden, correct?
Quoted from vid1900:They make a 1/4" hole, so if you are using it from the topside, you need to make sure that the post will cover the resulting plug.
If you are using it from the bottom, then it does not really matter.
so if you come from the bottom the tool does not need to go through to the other side? is it possible to make partial holes with it?
that is the part I do not understand about the process
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Since setting myself up a while back with a Silhouette vinyl cutter, I’ve taken to redoing key lines and insert text with the airbrush.
Disadvantages are that it probably takes longer to do it this way. Advantages are that you can lay on enough black paint to cover nicely in one pass, and you can reproduce artwork which crosses over the insert and playfield in multiple colors pretty sharply. (That is to say, as in the example here, a true black background and a truly opaque red line would be harder to achieve using clear waterslide decal paper. White paper isn’t an option here unless you are OK with changing the look of the inserts, but I wanted to maintain the actual print-on-plastic look.)
I’m certainly not the first to use this technique but it seems worth mentioning here.
[quoted image]
Black outline and lettering is cut and it into position, masked, sprayed.
[quoted image]
Red “pinstripe” stencil applied and sprayed after black has dried.)
[quoted image]
I did these only two at a time because positioning all four would have been very hard to do accurately.
[quoted image]
Here I am about to lay down the second stencil for the red.
[quoted image]
All four inserts with both red and black details reestablished.
Use *extreme caution* when pulling the stencil on fine details like this. Even on a well scuffed playfield, chances are good that fine lines like this can come up with the stencil. I lost a tiny bit of the 4x line, and cheated by finishing it with a detail brush. There will probably be a little crinkle in the next coat of clear which will need to be sanded out, but it will otherwise look fine when all is said and done.
I was wondering why people would choose a stencil over paper for the inserts and viceversa.
I would think that the paper might encounter adhesion issues , ghosting etc and the stencil is just safer?
Can you tell me what cutter do you use for the stencils and how do you get the shapes into that system?
And last but not least, great job!!
as I continue my research and learning experience by reading this thread an other experience I am still debating what gear to get.
The premise is to buy the smallest compressor possible that would allow me to paintbrush and also clear coat, if it is cutting to thin, I might consider upgrading the compressor.
I have been reading online and a lot of people are using this:
https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/MAC2400
It looks like it could work for most things but I am not expert.
Thoughts?
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Makita: Powerful 2.5 HP 4-Pole motor produces 4.2 CFM at 90 PSI for increased productivity and lower noise
Vid: Just for a worst case scenario: figure that a HF cheap gun needs to run @ 6 CFM and 47 PSI to smoothly shoot Shopline JC 661 clear.
Taken from: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/5#post-728412
So NO, would not likely work for HVLP spray guns.
Nobody here using these?
There is a bunch of people using it. They also recommended the next model 5200 but there are people painting bikes with the 2400 and should be enough for clear as well.
The theory says it wont but practice says differently according to what I have reading. So was just hoping to see it anybody here runs one of these.
pinball plastic casualty... the paint on this one got affected by isopropyl alcohol (left a rag accidentally on it) and lots of paint dissolved, so I went ahead and cleaned it up, granted a lot of the paint came off, the back white layer and then the some of the black and the orange dot pattern...
I presume this is easy to fix with some airbrushing (except the orange dots), however, the harder part is creating the dots pattern that gives the plastic a darker color mixed with the white background...
The question being, is this plastic garbage now or can the pattern (now gone) of dots be replicated with a decal on the back?
It could be done in this order
Paint the rocks edges in black, then
add decal with dots patters, then,
paint white background over the back of the decal ?
yay / nay ? waste of time and just get a new plastic?
IMG_6327 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from vid1900:Someone with more experience can **get more** out of a tiny air compressor and a hungry gun.
For a regular joe, with no auto finishing experience, your best bet is to just get a used, real, american made compressor for $100-150
It will outlive you, have endless air reserve, and can be serviced anywhere
This Saylor-Beall was $100 on CL last week. It could eat 200 of those Chinese oil-less rattler compressors, they still make the almost exact same model 50 years latter.
Kids don't recognize anything that is not Chinese, so if it does not say Dewalt, Husky, Kobalt, Makita or Porter Cable, it goes for pennies....
[quoted image]
I dont have the room for this, also these are none existent in my area. I need something that would get the job done, ideally low noise, small footprint and versatile. I am leaning towards the Makita. I have experience spraying, mind you I have not done it in a few years but the experience is there... I am feeling lucky lol. If the akita does not work, Home Depot will take it back.
have a few questions about the following.
Printer, what is a good consumer grade laser printer capable of printing well on waterslide paper?
Siloutte - Circuit, etc, or similar... How do you trim a printed decal on these machines? how do you make it follow the outline of it? I can't understand the purpose of the silhouette if it is not capable of this task.
another post separated from the previous one to prevent it from being buried.
I have this playfield that has a bit of bow, I have been correcting it slowly - by adding weight on top - and it is 1/32" of an inch now (gap in between the straight edge and the PF).
Wondering if I should continue trying to completely flatten the PF before spending any time on it? It is NOS but it is needs a little work, including a new coat of clear as the diamond plate on it is VERY thin. Also, most inserts show small cracks around the edges as the clear shrunk, I presume this will be more visible when cleared again so it might need a little paint... dont have pictures of it, AND it is not very visible at all really, BUT, since I am planning of doing my best attempt possible, and I am aiming for perfection 'to be the best you gotta do what others won't do' hehe... why not going full in...
Let me know what you think. I might be overthinking this.
adding pics of the pf with the straight edge and a close up to provide a better idea as to where the bow is... and it runs like that top to bottom (not only in the centre).
Quoted from pinballinreno:1/32" bow is acceptable.
The weight of the playfield mechs will drop it into shape easily.
A 1/8" twist or bow will also correct after being installed for a couple weeks.
The hardwood side rails do an efficient job of flattening along with the weight applied to the front and rear hangers.
Ideally the side rails should be steel. That way the playfield wouldnt sag as much over a 50 year period.
just noted as pictured the bow is left to right across the entire PF.
Please note the orientation of the straight edge.
Is it still acceptable? Should I try to flatten it more?
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:pinball plastic casualty... the paint on this one got affected by isopropyl alcohol (left a rag accidentally on it) and lots of paint dissolved, so I went ahead and cleaned it up, granted a lot of the paint came off, the back white layer and then the some of the black and the orange dot pattern...
I presume this is easy to fix with some airbrushing (except the orange dots), however, the harder part is creating the dots pattern that gives the plastic a darker color mixed with the white background...
The question being, is this plastic garbage now or can the pattern (now gone) of dots be replicated with a decal on the back?
It could be done in this order
Paint the rocks edges in black, then
add decal with dots patters, then,
paint white background over the back of the decal ?
yay / nay ? waste of time and just get a new plastic?
[quoted image]
now that I have you, is it worth fixing this or just buy a new plastic?
Quoted from sethbenjamin:I swapped out a NOS “Warlok”
Playfield this winter. It had such a bow in it, I was worried it wouldn’t sit in the cabinet properly when I was finished. Indeed, the left hand hanger actually had to be pushed down into place, otherwise it sprung up from the lockdown bar.
A couple of days sitting in the cabinet “trained” the playfield into sitting basically flat. I’m sure if I put a straightedge on it, it would not be a plane. But the degree of warping isn’t enough to affect the ball’s travel. It was no problem.
I’ve seen people get passionate about the subject of putting the side rails back on to a newly cleared playfield, but honestly, even if you replace the rails with new hardwood ones, 1/2” x 1 1/8” thick strips just aren’t rigid enough to straighten a playfield, much less do so against the weight of everything hanging off of it.
All of which is to say, that playfield will be fine. Good idea to spray some extra clear on it. Remember to re-glue those inserts first with epoxy!
Are there instructions here on how to reglue the inserts?
Do I have to remove the factory glue?
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Check the topic index.
If inserts haven’t moved significantly, I don’t remove them. I mix up 5-minute epoxy and swab it around the perimeter of the insert, bridging the plastic and the plywood. Use a liberal amount of glue, short of being sloppy.
Mix small quantities and do 2-3 inserts at a time, so you don’t end up using gooey thickening epoxy, a messy hassle to work with.
If they have moved a lot, follow vid’s guide. Removing the old glue and re-seating the inserts always feels like the most Bomb-proof method to me, but it also comes with the most extra work - dripping in clear coat/extra level sanding, redoing keylining and insert lettering. If you only have some telegraphing through he keylines but the inserts are otherwise stable, re-glueing from the back side is less work. Often you can touch up key line cracks with a Molotow paint pen.
the inserts are absolutely perfect, nothing has moved.
Is it recommend to re glue them regardless?
Quoted from pinwillie:[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
definitely a challenge I tried to make all the dots line up, not easy at all. then just tried to blend them out.
does anybody have any more detail as to how this repair was done? was it done with a decal or hand painted? I know it is 7 years old....
thanks for sharing those links gents! really great info.
I am tempted to fix that plastic that got the paint removed... I know it is just easier to buy the plastic but I do not think I can get just that one, I would have to get an entire plastic KIT (that I already have minus that damaged one)...
would WS decal stick to plastic?
Quoted from RightNut:After applying touch up paint (either via an airbrush or otherwise), do you need to lightly sand/degloss the paint before applying the next coat of clear?
Thank you.
I am wondering about this too, so not sure what needs to happen first? paint first and sand after? in that case, do you need to avoid sanding the fresh paint?
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I've only done 4 playfields but always just shoot clear on top of the dry Createx.
I think, *I am looking for clarification on the sanding process when painting is required, do you sand first and then paint?
must be hard to see one it is sanded (talking from lack of experience here)...
Would this be appropriate:
sand
Frisket
make cutouts
paint
Clear
I was petrified of the thought of removing mylar and ruining a PF, mostly due to the comments of other people who spend half their lives rubbing flour and alcohol...
Then, I get to see Chris from HEP remove mylar in 10 seconds and the fear fades away.
I do not overthink it anymore
Quoted from gdonovan:I have had good luck and bad luck pulling mylar. Freeze spray was fine on one application, ripped the paint half away on another.
Proceed with caution.
Of course. I presume that it might get compromised depending on how thick the clear coat still is.
He made it look very easy on the video, it peeled right off…once the freeze is applied I believe that if there is damage, it happens when you apply the freeze and not when you pull the mylar off.
I noticed that my playfield has the cutouts not perfectly centered, see the pics. Then I compare to other PFs I have had here and seems common in 90s games?
Wondering if there anything I need to consider when I am putting this PF in the game?
It is worth mentioning that all the inserts are aligned properly, and all the art matches all holes.
IMG_6428 (resized).jpegIMG_6430 (resized).jpegIMG_6432 (resized).jpegQuoted from vid1900:Pull the Frisket off and clear over the paint (maybe the whole playfield if you are efficient).
Remember, we never want to apply a waterslide decal to the bare paint, or directly to a plastic insert.
The reason is that you don't want the tension of the clear coat to be different on the topside of the decal than it is underneath.
You run the risk of ghosting if you just stick the decal to the insert plastic.
I've never had an insert decal ghost that has been applied on top of clear coat, then coated over.
Don't take a shortcut here - do it right.
[quoted image]
Here is the waterslide decal applied .
I am having some confusions understanding the sanding+Clear+decal application.
In an earlier post it was suggested that It is needed to sand the clear with 1000g before applying the decal.
Would not that leave the sand marks/cloudiness visible it the slide is laid over sanded clear and then clear on top? In other words, would the clear look transparent underneath the slide?
Quoted from joshmc:Hi folks,
I’m prepping the playfield to do the first clearcoat before I start using the airbrush. I haven’t removed the electronics from the underside of the playfield. It’s too tedious and I’m not confident I could put everything back where it belongs. I’ve plugged up the holes with cotton balls (see attached pic), however I’m starting to wonder if this is a bad idea. The purpose of this is to stop the clearcoat from damaging the electronics. I still have the old inserts. Perhaps that would be a better idea?[quoted image]
that looks like such an easy candidate to restore, all solid colors, straight forward. Air brushing for the win! then clear coat it!
Quoted from yellowghost:Dont cheap out on a airbrush. Cheap plastic airbrushes break or dont atomize the paint correctly and usually dont handle solvent based paint. Look on kijiji or spend the money and buy a good gravity feed iwata. That thing will give you nothing but greif.
agreed, buy once, cry once... I hate cheap tools, spend $200 on Iwata and enjoy the job rather than hating it.
Quoted from phototamer:Looks there are missing parts from the insert art , so decal would be the solution here. But you will need to sandwich 2 or 3 decals to prevent the light underneath to shine through the art. You could also try to use a few drops of clear coat as an adhesive if you need to reattach the broken insert art .
Did not know sandwiching decals was a thing. Can the insert just be painted from the back instead if one single decal is used?
Quoted from radium:Perfect, thanks vid
On this topic, and with my plan of building a temporary booth in my garage…
What mask are you guys using when spraying clear?
Quoted from dr_nybble:Best would be a supplied air respirator. I am using 3M 6001 and goggles but I spray outside and it’s a once a year thing for me. But I am still thinking I should spring for a supplied air system.
Thanks.
I recently played the Dracula you did, perfect job, great resto overall, I have the same standards as you do. I want to do this to an IJPA NOS pf I own.
I also followed your other thread recently when you did a lot of painting on a PF. Amazing work. I want to learn all these things.
When you say you spray outside, would you be able to give me more details as to what kind of setup you have. I want to keep it simple as possible.
If you are open to have a chat on the sidelines, I would be happy to pick your brain. I am also working on other pinball things, making williams boards and Pin2dmd screen, if any of this interest you I can share some knowledge with you.
Thanks
Quoted from sethbenjamin:So here is a problem I have had repeatedly.
After laying down frisket and doing my Xacto work, when I peel back the Frisket, it pulls up the clear coat with it! It’s happened a few times over the years, usually, like this, only in a small spot. I have successfully painted over these issues in the past (rather than de-spraying and re-sanding the whole playfield over it), but it is irritating and slightly worrying.
- I use low-tack Frisket
- I use adhesion promoter before shooting initial clear coat
Do others have this issue? It’s super annoying.
[quoted image][quoted image]
I am no expert but I can see dirt around the posts on that pf, so could it be perhaps that even though you have used adhesion promoter you did not prep the surface well enough? not enough sanding?
When doing epoxy I get rid of bubbles with a torch, the heat generated as I get close up yo the piece of wood removes the bubbles. Wondering if this trick would also work with clear.
Quoted from radium:When spraying isocyanates, is a full hood with a supplied air system enough protection? Or do I also need to wear a respirator with chemical cartridges under it?
Full hood, Tyvek suit, nitrile gloves. That do it?
Seems quite a lot for a pf…
I see professional painting cars with just a suit and mask…
What am I missing here.
Quoted from radium:I’m building a spray booth and I want proper PPE that is easy to get into and comfortable. You guys in Ottawa wear a mask to eat a cheeseburger and youre giving me shit for trying to be safe spraying clear? Really?
Lol. Good one.
Not really, I was just making an observation.
If a pro that paints cars everyday is not using all that, why would you.
The observation being, which one is correct? Your system or theirs?
I am honestly asking
Wondering what kins of costs are we looking at here for this type of ppe, as I would want to be fully protected as well as I agree, a professional booth must be more efficient at removing the mist/overspray than my 4th world country improvised booth.
Quoted from Mtlchik:vid1900 here are the images. Sorry for the repeat, I can’t find the first images in the thread to tag you! An airball rocked my playfield around the Bksor hurry insert. I already had it set up to be professionally clearcoated. Are there any recommendations on how to best touch this up prior? Thank you in advance for your time! It seems to be most of the damage is sitting in the black lines. There is some damage at the top of the insert. I’m trying to decide if that is just a scuff or if somethings actually cracked In the clear coat, it doesn’t seem to go past that.
[quoted image][quoted image]
If you were to reclear this pf, do you have to sand it first or just use adhesion promoter?
The clear on sterns is so thin I am afraid to go through the art in no time.
What grit do you start with?
Quoted from vid1900:It looks like a chip in the clear from here.
Clean it out with Naphtha, then you can put some fine scratches in the plastic with an Xacto knife so the new clear will have some tooth.
Your original pics did come through, they are in post #7854 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/158#post-6799515
And my repair advice is the reply directly under your post
That chip looks like a straight line, actually a very deep scratch rather than a chip. Have you inspected the pinballs? I suspect one of them has a deep groove in them.
If it was mine I would shoot 2 more layer and call it a day... after that, if it fails, well it fails but I would not be worrying about the thin layer of clear,
but what do I know! I am going by gut feeling here!
Spectacular work regardless. cheers.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:That would be my path as well.
Hardwood is key; a dowel is end grain, so it doesn’t grab wood screw threads as well as face grain.
This is especially important when the screws are going to have to hold the weight of a coil bracket, and deal with the stress of all that flipper action. I like European beech for this kind of thing. It’s not available in dowels as far as I know; I band saw some small square strips of it, then plan3 down rge corners, and chuck it in the drill press, which works as a quick and dirty turning lathe. Take some 120 grit sand paper and run it up and down the dowel while the press is running at moderate speed. You can dial in the diameter you need very efficiently that way. I’ve only ever had to do one repair that went all the way through the playfield (I’ve more frequently made little tapered wood plugs.)
A fine finish pull saw will trim the dowel flush on both sides, sometimes perfectly. A *sharp* chisel finishes the job if the saw didn’t cut it exactly flush.
Always, always, always pre-drill before driving a screw into such a repair!!
Have you tried making plywood dowels?
Sandwich a few layers of ply, then turning it to the size you want.
You will basically end up with the same material as the original pf and in the same orientation, face grain.
I have used dowels for repairs before and they hold very well, but these repairs dont like the screw coming on/off often in my experience for the reasons you stated.
Quoted from radium:Any buffer recommendations?
I don’t know much about buffing (other than what’s in this thread) or what features to look for. Hoping for something in the $100 range.
Nothing decent in that price range unless you want to buff poorly and for ages.
Your best bet for a pf, get a meguiar drill attachment. Will work great and it will be forced rotation, something similar in real size will cost $400-500 the attachment is only $50 and works great. Perfect size for pinball and can be later used for maintenance as well.
A cheap rotary buffer maybe exist in the $100 but it will be junk really not a lot of torque so you will buffing for ages so it all depends.
A DA is perfeft for this job, forced rotation and DA are super safe, almost impossible to burn the paint with proper use
Quoted from radium:Thanks that is a big help. I was looking at DA tools, wasn't even aware of rotary. I guess I'll just try a random cheap DA off Amazon and see how it goes. I'd probably burn stuff with a rotary or forced since I dont know wtf Im doing.
you will not burn anything unless you are not good with tools, with forced rotation on a DA it is almost impossible, and if you do, you should not be attempting any other repairs anywhere, lol. Sell all your tools! lol
A cheap DA will take longer and will not rotate as well. It is really a very old design and any change in angle or weight renders the DA action useless, it takes ages to polish with that tool, I absolute despise them. Use it to wax a 70 year old car.
DA force rotation is the best of the best when it comes to mirror finish, perfect smooth, no trails, no danger. A rotary can achieve good results, much quicker but requires an excellent techinique and that can burn through paint in a second. Rotary for PF is not necessary unless you are making 100s of PF every day, nobody needs the speed of a rotary in this hobby, this is not a factory requiring a 1 min polishing job.
Have lots of hours behind a polisher, trust me on this. Spend the money once, not twice, get a forced rotation DA or do like everybody else getting into polishing, buy the cheap DA, then realize is crap, then buy the forced rotation DA and appreciating it more.
Quoted from radium:Picked up a used Flex XC 3401 VRG for $280. Gonna play around with it on some PFs I'm clearing for hardtops to get the hang of it.
Excellent choice. I had one.
Quoted from vid1900:You have to get the printer ink to permanently stick to the Playfield.
Otherwise, the Clear pulls it up, and you get the German Mir-cull surprise
[quoted image]
This sucks! What is this?
Sorry Is this a decal printed with a laser printer? I thought it was recommend to use laser.
Quoted from phototamer:As I see it for a better adhesion of decal to a clear coated surface , the finer the grade the surface is sanded , the larger the presented surface becomes . the larger the contact surface for a decal the stronger the adhesion. So , logically a polished surface would be ideal for decal to be applied.
I was wondering about this. But how do you deal with further clear applications?
My question being, since you want the next coat to get some bite, you would need to sand…
How do you sand the pf while avoiding a freshly installed decal…?
Quoted from phototamer:In total agreement ! All the joy I get from playfield resto is using my hands , airbrushing , brushing , applying decals ...
Others may think differently , but in my experience you can go up to 1000 grit without any problems with the clear coat.
Or as Vid Stated , detail sanding around the applied decal would do the trick.
1000 grit before applying the decal? To then apply on a sanded pf? Or 1000 to sand over the decal?
Quoted from joshmc:Hi Folks
I’d like to buy a compressor so that I can clear coat playfields and cabinets using a HVLP gun. I’m just wondering what type of compressor I should purchase. The one in the picture is a belt drive, 50 litre tank, 3HP. Would appreciate advice .
Thank you!
Josh
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
You have to match the output of the gun to the output of the tank.
That tank seems unnecessarily big for the application.
If you are only using it for playfields you can use a smaller gun, that still has a big enough fan for a cab and pf but uses less air.
These are often sold at stores that sell airbrush.
Iwata already thought of this:
https://www.mapleairbrushsupplies.com/products/lph-80-fan-e4-cap
Only 1.8 cfm.
Almost any compressor can handle this.
Quoted from phototamer:The larger you can afford the better. I have a 50 Liter (?) and a 200 Liter compressor. The smaller one can handle playfield clearcoat but with almost continually running he motor. The bigger can clear coat a whole playfield without even starting the motor again . the big one can easily handle many air tools and also sandblasting if needed.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
A bigger tank it is only a crutch if it cant deliver the cfm you need. It will run forever too because it needs to maintain certain pressure.
You want to have more cfm than the gun needs and save a lot of space in the meantime.
Quoted from Frogroar:I’m a bit confused what to do next with my White Water: I removed everything from the playfield (including Mylar and glue) and cleaned it really well. Do I lightly sand and apply a first coat of clear before airbrushing, or do I paint and airbrush before that first coat?
Willy looks pretty terrible after the previous owner made an attempt to restore him… I should probably sand those crappy spots first.
[quoted image]
Maybe a refresher on this thread mighy help, but if I recall correctly - I need the refresher too -
You clear, then paint, clear, add decals, clear.
I think your PF needs to be scanned and print a colour decal with the missing art.
Unless you are a wiz at drawing with airbrush?
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:Diamondplate playfields are durable enough you can use a magic eraser and rubbing alcohol. It will clean and get into crevices of dirt nicely, it removes touchup paint without removing original paint, and since magic erasers are abrasive it also sands the playfield for clearcoating.
I do touchups before clearcoating otherwise the touchups will look like they are floating above the surface, but if you spray a thin enough layer of clear then i think it would be ok and you also get the benefit of seeing how the original paint looks when cleared since the colors turn darker. It would help in regards to paint matching. I just finished restoring a White Water playfield, it was fun.
According to this thread, the touchup and decals are after the clear.
Can you expand more on the floating part you are mentioning?
Is it possible to do a “thin” coat with these 2k cans, like the one on the other thread but pinballreno used them I think
I recently picked up what it looks like to be a home use only LW3.
Unfortunately it has been somewhat neglected over the years and the pf shows a little planking.
I am considering my options, the goal would be restoring the game, starting with the pf and boards. Then build a new cab or restore the current one (which is actually very very nice, but feels a little dry)
I want to do something with the PF, I would do a pf swap but there isnt anybody remaking these. Unfortunately.
So it looks like my only option is trying to save this one.
What is the best approach to stop this ?
4CEA4F7A-001E-49B1-AD71-1D7FEA9A5FBC (resized).jpeg926DF9F9-9E46-44C8-9F85-2F75A57CA2CC (resized).jpegD2C0FF0C-720C-4A1F-A151-28BC31E97D99 (resized).jpegQuoted from vid1900:Looks like a great restoration candidate
Clearcoat will lock all that down before it starts chipping
Are there any particular precautions that you would take when sanding a pf like this?
Would you say it si safe to play?
I purposely took a pic with a light coming on the side for the sake of the picture and it might look worse than it is. I am sure you figured it out by now.
Thanks in advance!
Quoted from vid1900:Don't use a power sander.
Gently degloss it by hand, then shoot your thin layer of clearcoat.
You can leave it alone, protected...or continue to a full restoration
600 or 800 grit by hand, just enough to degloss and shoot?
I will most likely just continue and add a little colour where it is needed.
There are some ball trails that are not coming off so I figured it would be a good time to address that as well, and well, also find a excuse to buy myself an airbrush. Lol
Quoted from jazc4:[quoted image]
mylar this now seems like a bad idea with an unpredictable result. You might get away with it if you wax the pf well, but I would not risk it.
If you really must play this game now, maybe just add a protector to put on top but seems like a waste of time and money in my opinion...
I do not think anybody can guarantee what will happen to the art on that pf once you add mylar and let it live there for 1 year...
If you were to do that and must use mylar, I would at least get scans of all the affected art and have a back up plan.
I am on the same boat, just got a really nice home use only LW3 but I will not risk the a PF that is planking and have a much bigger job later, so I have decided to not do anything, until I clear the PF. So it will be unplayed until then, which is extra motivation. In the meantime, I am doing other things that will save me time later...
Anyway, this is is getting winded.
Good luck
Quoted from vid1900:Wax it good before you put the Mylar down.
If there is any flaky or chipping areas already, obviously don't stick any Mylar to it.
if the man says then do it, lol.
vid1900 are you saying I can do the same with my LW3 or would the planking I have not survive mylar?
Now that we are discussing clears...
Has anybody tried Tamco?
They have a clear rated for high-impact and I automatically thought it would be great for our application but maybe it is not?
https://www.mapleairbrushsupplies.com/collections/tamco-clear-coat/products/hi-impact-clear
interested in hearing others opinions.
Quoted from pinballinreno:My stargate has crazing and checking in the original factory clear.
Ive seen this on a couple Gottlieb games, it might be temperature or storage related.
The paint isnt loose or flaking off yet.
Im curoius if a sanding and re-clear can save it?
Stargate playfields are unobtainium for now unless I get one of the un-licensed German digital reprints (which look great by the way...).
[quoted image][quoted image]
The idea of colour matching terrifies me. Lol.
I wonder if there is a way to actually accomplish this reliably.
Going back to my question:
Nobody with Tamco clear experience/review?
Quoted from joshmc:Really stupid question mate: how do I know what direction the grain is running in?
It is not a stupid question, depending on the task at hand followint the grain means different things, but in a nutshell, the waves and lines in the wood is the direction of the grain.
Quoted from joshmc:Hit it with Naptha and it looked ok (sanded area didn’t stand out from the rest). First layer of clear down. I went with Createx UVLS Gloss and not 2pac auto clear is that I’m just after a clear
coat to protect the existing artwork before I paint.
I will definitely use 2pac once all the painting / colours are done).
You can see the sanded area distinctly from the rest. It actually looks like the UVLS clear didn’t adhere to the sanded area as much as the other areas.
So, my options are now to either:
1. Leave it be and just start painting (not my preference)
2. Sand the entire area that is wooden and hit it again with 2pac when I’ve finished all the painting
3. Use shellac on wooden areas
What do you guys think?
Also, I was a bit disappointed in the Iwata LPH-80. It’s an awesome airbrush however the 1.2 needle didn’t provide a wide enough fan for applying clear. I lost count of the number of passes I had to do.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Curious about the lph80.
Have you tried adjusting the settings? Should have a fan of about 7 inches.
Was it set up right?
does the clear attach well to the poly, what poly do you use,. Shopping for poly is like shopping for caulk. lol 1000 versions
Quoted from vid1900:Minwax Oil Based Poly
Or you can use Minwax's oil based stuff for floors, works fine too.
[quoted image]
Sand the poly with 220, and spray your 2PAC
Even though the Oil based poly says "clear", it imparts a yellowish tint that looks old on fresh Maple
awesome thanks,
would it be wise to do this on the shooter lane of more modern game, for example a 90s (lol modern haha, like me) or a newer Stern...
I have to do a shooter lane soon, that is in really good shape, just maybe a little bit of black stains from the ball but not much, I have never attempted painting a lane like HEP does to 'camouflage' the wood, I just have zero knowledge in colour matching and looking at all my options. I am also terrible with colour, they all look the same to me.
Quoted from radium:This is what always happened when I try this. The ball trail is so deep I have to remove a ton of wood, and it ends up looking splotchy anyway.
Comes out better if I blend it and fill, then hide with translucent paint like HEP does.
What paint do you use? I have seen HEP and looks great.
Is it a mix of white and brown?
Quoted from vid1900:Just paint it then.
Use Createx, spray a base layer of light color, then use an almost dry brush to add some grain with a darker color
Because it's Createx, you can just wipe it off with water if you make it too dark
can you use the translucent createx to give it the same look that HEP gets? I want it to camouflage but still see the grain underneath
Quoted from vid1900:If you use an airbrush, even solid color can be translucent
You can practice on any piece of plywood
ahhh! that makes sense. Did not think of that!
Thank you
Quoted from kevmad:Please help! I was screwing in a post into my new Sorcerer playfield (CPR), and the post sheared off, leaving the threaded part in the wood!! The post on the right is what a new post looks like, the post on the left is my sheared off post. How do I get the broken threaded part of the post out of there??? I pre-drilled the hole before screwing in the post. I did notice this CPR playfield wood is harder than what I am used to. Please, help, I"m about to cry or scream or...
[quoted image]
There are bits for this job that are hollow, juet big enough to drill around the screw.
You will then fill the hole with a dowel, and reinstall the post. I would explore replacing these with another option that attaches with a nut or tnut. Cleaner install and more reliable.
I am sure someone else will come out with the bits needed for the removal. I had the link but lost it.
Quoted from kevmad:Thank you guys for all your replies on how to remove the broken threaded post from the playfield wood. It looks like the unscrew-ums is what I will try first. I am scared of the dowel method. It is comforting to know others have gone through the exact same thing and have been successful. I have to be careful as it is a broken in-lane post that is very visible and open (too bad it wasn't way in the back of the playfield or hidden under a plastic).
It is scary but once you do it once you realize how easy it is to fix this.
I recommend you scrap those screw in post and use a nut and washer. They are just a much better alternative for a post that gets banged 100% of the time. The screw in posts are weak and will bend, deform the wood, damage the hole etc.
Maybe this game plays in a way that is not an issue? I just dislike the screw in posts
Quoted from slochar:That's the inlane divider, not going to get a lot of force on it. Screw in is fine. Any one that has the ability to get whacked directly by the flippers I'm all for the machine post as you say.
I do now drill the playfield holes almost to the size of the screw going into it, CPR's playfields have been using exceptionally hard wood for at least 10 years now. (Maybe for the cores where OEM would be softer).
Agreed, but I have seen them bent. Especially if he is now oversizing the hole, making the screw grab weaker it will have less stability. So unless he is going the extra mile and filling the hole, drilling and tnut or nut/washer is how I do it.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Someone else may have a speedier process, but this is what works well for me:
- open scan in Pshop. Use magic wand tool to select all of a given color. Open a new layer. Use the eye dropper to select the color from background layer, then use the bucket tool in your new layer to create a big splash of color out of your magic wand selection. This will be rough and ugly.
- repeat for however many colors you want to repaint. Each color in its own layer.
- using a digital drawing tablet, use the pen tool to fill in missing areas and to smooth rough patches. Pay attention to the edges, you want them well defined.
Name your layers according to color. You’re basically recreating silkscreen layers.
- save the file with layers intact (pshop will ask you how you want to save.)
- open the file in AI. Use image trace to vectorize your layers, one at a time. You will probably have to use the smoother tool to iron out the bumps. If you took your time in pshop, your work at this stage will be minimized.
- that’s it. Save each layer as its own file, exported to whichever file format the silhouette prefers (I like .tiff as it never creates scaling problems.)
This is one of those processes that are self explanatory with a visual aid… because I understood everything you just said, just have no idea why you did what you did.
Quoted from pinballinreno:What I really like about that product is that you can easily repair chips and defects WAY after the fact.
It bonds very well to the cured product, unlike P2K.
Its nearly ideal for pinball and dries ROCK hard just like P2K. It also "dies" back like P2K.
You can also thin it out to "wick" it into cracks or loose chips.
It takes a bit longer to dry, but if your not in too much of a hurry, it works VERY well.
They also claim that it bonds to old P2K. I havent tried it yet, but it looks VER/Y promising for repairs.
Ok, would it work well to redo a lethal weapon 3 I have?
I mean, if I sand the current top slightly?
Leaning to using the can version maybe…
You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider pin_fandango.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration?tu=pin_fandango and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Ottawa, ON
Walnut Creek, CA