(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

By vid1900

11 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

143 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #7 Playfield damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #8 Insert damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #34 How to sand your new inserts flat. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #35 Cleaning old glue out of the insert holes. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)


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You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider ktownhero.
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#6386 5 years ago

Vid,

If you don't mind, could you clarify one thing in regards to laying down a thin clear before doing touch ups... When you say to do that, are you referring to going through the whole process of prep to lay down a quick 2PAC, or is there some sort of simpler clear coat that you use at that stage?

The way I'm interpretting dealing with the art is the following:

1) Clean
2) "Thin" clear with ???
3) Airbrush/waterslide touchup
4) Final clear with 2PAC

Thanks for sharing all of your experience, it's truly a blessing to have these guides.

#6387 5 years ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

Vid,
If you don't mind, could you clarify one thing in regards to laying down a thin clear before doing touch ups... When you say to do that, are you referring to going through the whole process of prep to lay down a quick 2PAC, or is there some sort of simpler clear coat that you use at that stage?
The way I'm interpretting dealing with the art is the following:
1) Clean
2) "Thin" clear with ???
3) Airbrush/waterslide touchup
4) Final clear with 2PAC
Thanks for sharing all of your experience, it's truly a blessing to have these guides.

#6389 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just do the usual.
Do the shooter lane and any other bare wood
Remove Mylar and left over glue
Touch up chipped or worn keylines around inserts.
Lightly sand with 500grit
Wipe with Naphtha
Spray with light coat of 2pac

OK, thanks for clarifying -- that all makes sense.

I'm working on a JOKERZ! that has a good condition playfield but the art under the mylar is now a different shade than the non-mylar'd areas; particularly the background blue. Do you have any suggestions for restoring the color of the non-mylar'd areas or should I just expect to have to repaint those areas?

#6390 5 years ago
Quoted from ktownhero:

OK, thanks for clarifying -- that all makes sense.
I'm working on a JOKERZ! that has a good condition playfield but the art under the mylar is now a different shade than the non-mylar'd areas. Of particular notice is the blue background. Do you have any suggestions for restoring the color of the non-mylar'd areas or should I just expect to have to repaint those areas?

#6404 5 years ago

Vid,

Could I use Everbrite to put down a light top coat to do my touch ups and then do 2PAC for the final finish?

#6423 5 years ago

I can't for the life of me find anywhere that sells the PPG JC660 clear around me. Is there a source online? Looks like I can track down Dupont Chromaclear and some other brands if I need to.

#6425 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

https://www.welleauto.com/index.php/online-shopping#!/PPG-Omni-Clears/p/75848595
You have to call, they won't let you checkout through the web. On sale for $219 for a gallon with hardener.
Several times in this thread, the PPG auto paint dealer finder link is posted. They have 4000 dealers in the States, so you can find 4 or more in most cities.

Thanks, I was using the standard PPG store locator. Now that I found the refinish distributor locator, it appears I have about 50 locations within reasonable driving distance lol.

#6438 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Someone probably Loc-tited them.
Heat them up with a soldering iron before loosening them.

Might be a teaching moment to mention that one should use Loctite Blue, not Red. Blue can be removed by hand without heat and is plenty strong for a pinball table. Red is for car engines and shit.

#6440 5 years ago

I don't know why they put them both in Red bottles, makes it too easy for the unfamiliar to get the wrong one. How hard is it for them to just have the user-friendly version be in a bright blue tube? Lol

#6442 5 years ago
Quoted from heni1977:

Less cost to have two color bottles. Stickers are cheaper!

Does the "Blue" even have a blue sticker? I have a bottle of each at home and the only way to tell mine apart are to either know the model #s or open it and look.

#6445 5 years ago
Quoted from Soapman:

This is how they sell them now.
[quoted image]

Nice. I just have the tiny tubes, those bottles are much nicer (and clearer).

EDIT: I didn't even know about the green (wicking) version... That sounds excellent.

1 week later
#6475 5 years ago

I'm having trouble determining which parts are plated, steel or stainless steel. I have some Everbrite to use for protection on any plated or raw steel parts that I clean, but how do I know what is what? I'm pretty sure ball guides are stainless, but not sure about various metal posts and especially much of the hardware on the underside of the playfield.

Is there a guideline for what I should concern myself with protecting after an ultrasonic cleaning, tumble and/or buff?

1 week later
#6484 5 years ago

For those that use Createx paints, do you or have you ever used a base first prior to applying color? For example, let's say you have a blue color that you want to restore but the hue of the old paint varies due to variations in exposure (mylar). Would you just use Createx blue or would you consider doing a white or blue base first, and then the color?

Or are Createx opaques so pigment rich that the base doesn't matter?

#6486 5 years ago
Quoted from RussMyers:

LOTR - large round ring insert is sunken on one side.
I have leveled raised inserts using Vid's guide and had good success.
I am terrified that attempting to raise this sunken insert so it's level with the playfield will have this result another LOTR owner had:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-lord-of-the-rings-journey-begins-members-club/page/12#post-3064623
What do I do with this to fix it correctly?
Thanks,
RussM

It sounds like that person just pushed on the insert without anything providing counter pressure... You could either attempt to physically move it by properly use a C clamp with a block on top to prevent the insert from just popping out completely. Or you could level the insert with drops of clear, though it is a pretty big insert to do that with -- I'll let more experienced folks chime in on that option. Final option is buy a full playfield protector

#6493 5 years ago
Quoted from Fred736:

Echoing both lb1 and polyacanthus comments. White under yellow only. And VERY thin coats only. With a blast of hairdryer heat set between each coat.

Quoted from pinheadpierre:

A white base is helpful. It doesn't have to be bright, stark white. A light mist will do. Keep your paint layers THIN. Thinner paint layers are less prone to lifting and do not express their edge as much when cleared.

Quoted from polyacanthus:

I would use a white base under yellow, for any other color I think you'd be fine without. Same goes for any brand of paint I've used.

I appreciate the input, thank you.

If I am painting a large area (i.e., the white border on a JOKERZ!) will Createx blend fine as I do a small section by section job (even if I cure it)?

#6498 5 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Soo...Createx explicitly warns against heat curing, yet we're all still doing it?
The last restoration I worked on I did not heat cure. I set up a box fan and let it dry that way; while waiting a few minutes for curing time, I would work on whatever other things I could on the project. (Fixing broken solder joints, replacing lamp sockets, whatever.) There is nothing scientifically verifiable about my experience, but I had a ton of masking involving small, delicate areas, and didn’t have anywhere near the lifting problems I have had on other playfields. This could be me getting better/more disciplined about putting down very fine coats, or it could be that I’m being more thorough about scuff sanding. But it could also be that air curing allows the paint to adhere better. I’m disinclined to buck the advice of the manufacturer, but then again, Stern says to clean their playfields using freaking Novus, so clearly manufacurers’ advice isn’t always to be trusted...?

My paints literally say on the bottle to heat set for curing... What are you talking about? Lol

#6499 5 years ago
Quoted from Fred736:

No issues blending white into white. Just make sure you feather one section into the other.
Not sure why you would be working section by section though.
When doing this kind of work, 80% if the labor is masking.
So mask the whole pf but the white and spray the whole area at once.
Dont forget:. Many many many thin coats and heat set all of them. Be patient and dont get lax and start making your coats thicker.
By the way, white, i find, is the hardest color to use in an air brush. The pigments are quite big and make the paint quite thick compared to the other colors. This constantly clogs your nozzle not to mention that this acrilic paint dries up pretty fast on the needle not helping the clogging issues at all. If its the first time you use createx white, don't get discouraged with that. You'll be clearing you airbrush quite often.
If possible, start with another color to get some practice.
Or test on scrap. Black sprays nicely, you can try out with that one first.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Ok thanks... Makes sense.

I bought some of the Created Balancing Clear 4030 which supposedly helps adhesive and durability while also helping the flow of the paint.

1 week later
#6501 4 years ago

I'm planning on getting my first coat of clear on a JOKERZ this weekend... The playfield is a bit bowed though, is that something I should try to remedy prior to clear coating? It's noticeable but goes away when the side rails are back on -- Should I try to clamp it down across the length before clearing or just clear as-is and reassemble as usual? I know clear has a little flex so I'm sure it's ok, but would appreciate confirmation. Thanks!

EDIT: The bow technically makes it impossible to fully level the playfield

#6503 4 years ago

My first touch up section ever, this is going to be amazing when done! Look how badly yellowed the original white was...

Thanks vid for this guide, learning to use frisket and an airbrush was really game changing .

IMG_20190405_222811 (resized).jpgIMG_20190405_222811 (resized).jpg
#6506 4 years ago
Quoted from DougZ3:

One suggestion that I have, get a scalpel and blades from amazon. Its a lot cheaper than an exacto and you will be more likely to switch blades more often because of it. I think I got about 100 blades for less than $7.00. But watch a video of how to put the blades on - its easy but not obvious, and you will cut yourself doing it wrong.

I actually got this exacto set a long, long time ago for a few bucks from a Sears Outlet, so it's just nice to finally use it. When I run out I'll look into that though. Though, honestly, even exacto blades almost seem too sharp -- just the weight of the tool alone is capable of getting into the playfield!

Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Definitely get it flat for your work. Do it in a way such that it doesn't flex again during or after your work. Too much flex during or after your painting can cause ghosting of the clear. I think I remember Vid suggesting screwing the rails to the underside of the playfield to give it support. I suggest when you are done, replace them up top one at a time so that the playfield is still supported on at least three sides during the process. Paint restoration takes so much time that I've decided that you can't be too careful. These simple precautions are a drop in the bucket timewise.
Lonzo's idea is best. With his suggestion, the playfield is totally supported at all times.

Hmmm. I was being lazy but thank you for the reality check. I wish I had a jointer so I could just build a nice box that I knew was 100% level -- I might be able to bring some 1x6s over to my local school and use their jointer. How are you guys doing boxes, are you just buying pre-finished wood?

#6507 4 years ago

How do you all feel about bothering to preserve key lines around light sockets that are hidden once the playfield is assembled anyway? I noticed on my JOKERZ! that the majority, if not all, are not visible once assembled and they are all misaligned from the factory anyway lol. Just ignoring them could save me a good bit of time cutting frisket, but is that lame?

#6511 4 years ago
Quoted from phototamer:

Comparing the original lettering with the final outcome , the letters and labels differ a lot . was that intentional ?

Well, I doubt it was an accident

#6515 4 years ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

I changed it up a bit. I wanted more emphasis on the sword and not the bonus text. That where the text change idea started and recolouring the sword to something more realistic. The font used has an Arabic feel to it.

Did you repaint all of the black detail or use waterslides?

#6530 4 years ago

I wish I had the guts to disassemble the bottom of a playfield like that, it would make the restoration process so much more straight forward! Alas, I do not have said guts.

#6534 4 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Looks nice but you could make it even nicer by using a belt sander first. Then use a DA sander to finish up. I've done this on every playfield and they look almost new. I've also never sealed the underside and all my games look just as nice as the day they were done.

As a bit more than an amateur woodworker, I'd have to disagree. I don't think a belt sander is appropriate for a playfield (or plywood in generally, really); it is way too easy to remove too much material. A DA is really the way to go from start to finish.

#6543 4 years ago
Quoted from Bryan_Kelly:

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. Like I said, that outer layer of ply is extremely hard and takes forever to sand with just a DA. I've used the belt sander on somewhere near 100 playfields and have never had an issue. You'll get the job done with just a DA, but it'll take you a hell of a lot longer.

Word, of course if it works it works for you. I guess what I meant to say is that anyone unfamiliar with how powerful a belt sander can be should be cautious until they get a feel for it. One could easily rip through too much with the wrong grit/movement.

2 weeks later
#6564 4 years ago

Has anyone ever just covered a whole playfield in mylar in lieu of clear? Like buy a sheet, apply it, and cut out the appropriate areas so you have 100% coverage.

1 week later
#6599 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

And then what? Use my non-existent magic airbrush and non-exisent skill to paint a semi-transparent consistent layer of black to make it match the decals right next to it? That sounds like it would only work if a lot of luck was involved.

No luck about it! The whole point of a stencil is to take the "skill" out of it Airbrush is ideal, but technically you could brush it on if you wanted. Also, airbrushes are very inexpensive. The HF kit is $20 and goes on sale even, and there are countless others on Amazon for $10-$30.

2 weeks later
#6657 4 years ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Awesome, thanks for the details. I'm thinking I'll give it a try.

I used 3M foam ear plugs for my light sockets, they work great. I'm pretty sure vid posted about them somewhere in this thread.

#6664 4 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Foam ear plugs (...and anything else that sits loose in the light sockets) works great until the moment that it doesn't and comes flying out of the hole due to air pressure from spraying. Then you've got a big goober in your fresh wet clear.
When I take the old bulbs out of the sockets, I keep them together in a cup. That way when you put them back in for the next layer, you won't accidentally miss a socket. I also tape a big note to myself on my container of clear to remember to put the bulbs back in before clearing.

You're not supposed to spray at 2,000 PSI!!!

#6672 4 years ago
Quoted from TwoHeartedMale:

if i do touch ups by hand and then put down a play field protector, will the PF protector mess up the touch ups?

You can probably put a layer of Createx balancing clear over your touchup areas to help "lock" it in, it says specifically on the bottle that it can be used for that.

4 months later
#6783 4 years ago
Quoted from Islote:

Hi there, I'm new to pinball, just bought a Twilight zone.
It has some cracks next to the insert as you can see in the picture, and I don't know what would be the best way to fix it, as there is a colour gradient there. Luckily, apart from that, it is in really good shape having no worn parts next to the ball entrys. I know the crack is in a place next to the back of the playfield and is hidden by the clock, so you wouldn't see it during regular gameplay, and it's a really small thing, but I would prefer to fix it. As I know it's there, I notice it is there easily.
Thank you![quoted image]

I have several inserts like that on a World Cup Soccer that I recently obtained. I was just considering a piece of mylar to go over it, but I'd love to have a proper fix.

1 week later
#6805 4 years ago
Quoted from Leveeger:

Krylon Triple thick is a forbidden product in Europe because of Cancer risk... So 2K clear is used instead, with no yellowish...

I find it hard to believe that triple thick is more cancerous than 2K.

2 weeks later
#6812 4 years ago
Quoted from pincity:

I have a small divot in my playfield where I can see bare wood - pretty small - maybe about half the size of a pencil eraser. This is an 80’s playfield so no clear coat and I’m not planning to clear coat at this time anyway.
I want to fill it to level it off, touch it up and seal with mylar (after waxing).
Clay’s guide mentions that water thin super glue can be built up for this purpose. Has anyone used this approach to fill a small divot or should I be looking into using some other product like qwikwood?
Thanks!

If it is deep enough that it changes gameplay then you could fill it with some quikwood and then mylar over it. If it's shallow (i.e., just the paint is gone) then I'd just mylar over it and call it a day.

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