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Post #6 Removing mylar and the adhesive left behind. Don't clear over it. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #7 Playfield damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #8 Insert damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #15 Removing inserts, step one - cut around it so you don't remove artwork with the insert. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #23 Removing inserts, step two - how to heat it, what to push it out with. Don't remove them if you're not replacing them. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #26 How a playfield is made and why your new inserts must be sanded flat before installation. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #34 How to sand your new inserts flat. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #35 Cleaning old glue out of the insert holes. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #36 Removing old mastic with a burr tool on a rotary device such as a Dremel. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #37 Prep your insert for gluing by sanding it with 100 grit. Epoxy can be chipped off the insert without this step. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

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So I have next to zero experience with photoshop, etc..

My question is, when you guys are printing color decals on your color laser printers, how do you get the colors to match? Even though you should have the right color from your scan, that doesn't mean your printer will print that exact color. How is that accomplished?

I am assuming part of this is dealing with printing on either clear or white decal paper.

I guess part of my reason for asking this question is that it seems like most of the time when you buy a pre-printed decal, the colors are off.

Also, after applying your B&W or color printed decals, how are you wiping down the playfield to get any oils, etc, from your hands off the playfield prior to clearing?

Thanks,
Michael

Quoted from lowepg:
well, I can answer part of that. I'm not a pinball restore guru- but spend a lot of time in Photoshop.
The way to ensure your print looks like what you see on your screen is to calibrate your monitor and also your printer.
So the process looks like this:
You have a device that measures your monitor output. It creates a profile
You then print out a sample. The device scans that print out, compares the color and creates another profile.
That might be overkill for most printing applications, but when I need to perfectly match colors, it's the only way to be 100% sure.
Btw- the device I use is called ColorMunki... Pretty neat little toy.

Thanks for the info, but Wow.. That's a spendy little devil at $500, assuming you are talking about the ColorMunki Design.

Is there another way?

Michael

Kinda sorta off topic but then probably not.

I have decided to make it a policy that every playfield I strip down completely for a major polish and shopping will get scanned with my 4670 scanner.

That way I will always have scans for possible future use or to help out a fellow pinsider if needed.

My question concerns software. What software should I use to scan into? In the past I had a copy of Photoshop and used twain to scan them into Photoshop and then saved as .psd files. I don't have a copy of Photoshop available to me anymore.

I am concerned about maintaining actual size for the scans, and I don't want the image quality loss that usually goes along with scanning as a .jpg

Any suggestions as to a free or almost free app to scan into?

Quoted from MinnPin:
Hi, thanks for the replies so far. In regards to the above question -- the bubbles are all over the PF, not just singled out to certain areas. And this is the 4th layer of clear, so nothing that was on the PF to start with should be causing a reaction with the clear at this point.
Also, I am by no means an expert, but from what I have seen regarding fish-eyes, I don't believe that is what these are. These simply seem like bubbles to me. Annoying bastard bubbles from hell.

They look like solvent pop to me. This occurs when the activator is not the right temp for the humidity and ambient temp and/or the clear is too thick. What happens is the clear on top begins to skin over and set up before the deeper solvents have evaporated.

Best practice is to make sure your spraying conditions match your activator, stir do not shake. You can apply immediately after mixing. Wait approx 15 minutes before your second heavier coat. Do not let the clear sit around for 15 minutes before spraying. As soon as you mix the clear and activator the process starts and the clock starts ticking. You want the clear to set up on the playfield not in the gun! Your practice of waiting before spraying is likely contributing to your problem.

It is OK to use a higher temp activator in cooler conditions as this will help prevent solvent pop. It just takes longer to cure. For example if your activator is supposed to be used in temps from 70-90 degrees and you spray at 60 then that will work. But if your activator is for colder temps like 60-70 and you spray at 80 that's a bad thing.

Fish eyes typically create a "pit" in the clear with no top. Your pictures look like an actual bubble.

Quoted from MinnPin:
Thanks for the insight. One question regarding the "leaving it in the gun for 15 mins" issue. Theoretically, one might spray their playfield and then use up the clear left in the reservoir on something else that needs spraying. Heck, I have done that in the past myself...and that is usually at least 15 mins later. What is the total set time? And yes, I am using the fast hardener -- the 6670.

I am not familiar with that product as I generally use Dupont stuff so I really can't answer your question.

However, if you are using your left over clear on something else that doesn't already have clear on it, then that shouldn't be a problem as long as it hasn't "gone off" and can still be sprayed. Keep in mind that the longer the clear is mixed the shorter your window for spraying. If you wait too long you'll end up with a heck of a mess on your hands. If for some reason you have waited to long and the clear starts to go off in your gun, just throw it away and buy another one. Don't even think about trying to save it. Remember that mixing the clear and the hardener starts a chemical reaction - just like epoxy. Wait too long and...

If I were you I would switch to the medium (or slow hardener depending on the temp you are spraying at) and see how it goes. It will take longer to cure but should really help out with your solvent pop issue.

As a general rule, I try to only mix up enough clear to put down 2 light to medium light coats. I typically wait 10-15 minutes to put down a thicker coat so I will mix up a new batch while I am waiting. I want to delay putting the thicker coat down as long as possible so I avoid solvent pop. Remember that solvent pop happens when the top layer starts to skin over before the bottom coats have evaporated their solvents.

It is easier for a novice to put down a thicker coat without orange peel than lighter coats. It takes quite a bit of practice. I blew through $200 in material on scrap playfields, etc, before I started to get the hang of it. The problem is that the thicker coats can cause other issues - solvent pop being the biggest issue.

Oh, and one more thing. I don't think you are doing this, but just in case. Do not use lamps or heaters or any other method to try to get your clear to cure faster. If you are spraying in cold conditions - 50 degree temps, it will still work. It will just take a really long time to set up. I have sprayed in the 40s before and it was fine. I just had to be patient. Also, as mentioned previously in this thread, make sure your clear and activator is stored in the same place as your playfield for at least 24 hours. You need both of them to be at the same temp.

Quoted from MinnPin:
Thanks again.
This would be thick coat of clear sprayed onto a freshly sanded/cleaned PF. I do not use anything to heat it or cure it faster. Something in your above info is probably my issue. Should I lay down a really light coat first and then wait a few minutes and lay down a thicker one? Or is laying down the thick coat on the sanded PF a better way to go?
I am going to try again this weekend and really want it finished this time.

You can do one thick coat, but you must ensure it does not cure too fast.

Definitely get at least the medium hardener. What will the ambient temp and humidity be when you spray? Check the data sheets on your product. You may be able to get away with the slow hardener. If the slow calls for 90 degree temps and you are spraying at 50 then that won't work. But if it will be 70 then the slow will work.

For what it's worth I prefer to lay down a nice thick coat for my final finish coat. I want it to cure somewhat slowly but not so slow that you can't wet sand it for flatness after 24 hours.

You definitely want to start your wetsanding process no longer than 24 hours after your final coat. Otherwise the clear starts to get too hard and it's a lot harder to wet sand.

One more thing that I also do. I will sand the backside of the playfield, clean up all the sanding dust and clear the backside and the edges with a couple of light/medium coats. This completely seals the playfield. Solenoid dust will never get into the wood again, the inserts will really sparkle once lit and the best part is you can use a garden hose to wash away all the white crap from wetsanding. You will find that once that dries it's a major pita to get cleaned up.

Good luck this weekend!

Quoted from MinnPin:
- I probably won't have time to get the medium hardener, I will be stuck using the fast stuff. The temp will be around 60-65.
- Wet sand after the final coat is done? Won't that leave the final finish dulled once again?
- As far as doing the reverse side of the PF, I started working on this machine way before I knew of this forum. The mechanical side of my PF was moldy and everything was rusting. I repaired or replaced every component and meticulously removed all of the mold, sanded and repainted the whole thing and put all of the parts back down, including all of the wire bundles being re-stapled, etc. I had no plans on restoring the game side of the PF or even that it needed it. So my PF is covered in parts on the opposite side. Namely, all of them.
Any other tips before the weekend much obliged.

IMHO, you are asking for trouble using the fast hardener.

Yes the finish will be dulled. That's what buffing is for.

Quoted from MinnPin:
The parts supplies stores that carry that stuff are open day time hours only during the week. No weekends. I have zero opportunity to get the medium.
What's the buffing process? If it involves a buffer, I am also without. Pardon my language, but...shit.

You are better off to wait until you can get the medium.

Yes. Wetsanding after clearing is always the preferred method. Despite what it looks like fresh clear is rarely perfectly flat. Plus no matter how clean your spraying area is there is always trash that ends up in the clear. This evens happens to pro body shops with dedicated spray booths.

You don't have to wet sand as long as you are willing to accept the results.

Quoted from Pinterest:
This thread sucks without VID -but like everything he does - he did it with class quietly fading into the background.

Ok so what happened to Vid?

So it looks like the previous owner of this game wanted to move the outlane post. Rather than unscrewing it after removing the bottom nut it appears that he tapped it with a hammer or something. The post grabbed the wood and/or clear and started lifting. Fortunately he stopped before the damage was too severe.

I used to fix things like this by injecting CA glue into the cracks in the clear, covering with wax paper and clamping with a block of wood for 24 hours. Unfortunately I am not going to be able to get the dirt out of the cracks unless I carefully cut away the clear a little bit and clean it which means I would have to fill the divot with CA, clear or some other adhesive - see below. I think at this point I'd rather leave it rather than risk making the damage worse.

Is this still a viable way to repair or are there better ways now? I know I could use some 2PAC to do this but I don't have any handy and don't want to buy any until I am ready to do some clear coating since the activators go bad even if you've never opened the can.

There are also some newer adhesives on the market based on trimethoxysilanes. These are supposed to dry crystal clear instead of leaving the milky haze that CA's can leave. They are also supposed to be more resilient to shocks, water, temps, etc. Has anyone tried any of these adhesives. One brand is Loctite G02 Glue. I have a bottle and one downside I see is the liquid is rather thick, rather than water thin like CA which would make it more difficult to get down under the crack.

I have the playfield completely stripped for a major shopping and polishing, so I'd like to get this repair done as soon as I can.

Opinions?

Thanks..

IMG_20170123_234748819_HDR (resized).jpg
IMG_20170123_234820822_HDR (resized).jpg

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
If it were my own game, I'd just leave it.
But for a client, I'd scrape out the cracks with an Xacto, then fill them with 2PAC.

I thought about just leaving it, but I am concerned about the crack growing longer. I am also worried that my buffing wheel might snag the edge of the crack and really make a mess of things.

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Don't sell it short.
The US war on drugs was bigly successful in putting the largest percentage of the population behind bars of any country in the world.
We beat China and Russia, that's no small feat!

Not to turn this into any type of political discussion, but you are absolutely correct. Not only that, the estimated number of actual, for real innocent people locked up in prison ranges from 1% - 5%. Considering there are roughly 2.2 million people in prison, well.. The numbers are truly frightening.

Some questions on the subject of repairing scoop holes.. I am sure it has been brought up before. I looked but can't find a posts about it in this thread or a key post.

What is the best method for repairing these? What materials?

How do you make sure you've got the shape right and the straight edges straight? We'll all seen pics of Monster Bash scoop holes that are destroyed. If a guy picked up a game like this to restore, there is so much wear it's near impossible to tell what the scoop was originally supposed to look like.

I suppose you could buy a Cliffy or Mantis for that scoop to use as a guide, but you are still faced with filling in a whole lot of missing wood with something. What is that something?

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Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

By vid1900

11 years ago

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