(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

By vid1900

11 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

143 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items.

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Post #7 Playfield damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #8 Insert damage assessment. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #34 How to sand your new inserts flat. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)

Post #35 Cleaning old glue out of the insert holes. Posted by vid1900 (11 years ago)


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#787 9 years ago

I use to work at a silkscreen shop. I used paint thinner and lacquer thinner daily without a mask. I never once had a cold or had the flu in those 10 years.

Take vid1900's advice and get yourself a good mask.

1 month later
#901 9 years ago

Retrobrite will work, but it's overpriced and low in peroxide content. Use Salon Care 40. YouTube it. 12-13% peroxide and < $10 for a large bottle. The bonus? It's already in a shampoo paste form so you don't need to add Oxy Clean to it. Here is my white F-14 beacon after 8 hours in the sun w/ Salon Care 40

salon40.pngsalon40.png;

3 weeks later
#1005 9 years ago

Vid, quick one for you. Are these fine black dirt lines in the actual paint on my PF or is the wood PF expanding/cracking? It looks like hairlines of dirt to me. To remove them I've tried Novus #2 (that didn't work).

266592-i.jpg266592-i.jpg

I'm ready to bust out the Magic Eraser, but want to ask before leaping.

#1008 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Are you talking about the outline of the Mylar protector, or the dirt in the grain of the wood?
The grain of the wood all goes lengthwise to the playfield.
The Mylar changes directions.

The grain of the wood. So it's just dirt? I'm glad it isn't the PF cracking. I tried cleaning it with Novus #2 but it didn't help. Would gentle use of a magic eraser be the next thing to try?

#1010 9 years ago

Just read back a few posts. Looks like it's best to just leave the dirt. I wish there was a way to clean it, but for now I'll leave the magic eraser alone.

#1017 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Once you remove the protective top coat with the Magic Eraser, you need to protect the playfield from wear.

This can only be done by clear coating correct?

1 week later
#1110 9 years ago

Gees man, I don't think it looks that bad. Saying it's "too far gone" seems a bit of an overstatement when really it's just the joust artwork that is bad. The rest is just simple ball trails. If you're going to toss it I'll gladly take it off your hands.

6 years later
#7146 3 years ago

Hi vid1900 I am following your insert replacement section. I managed to get the inserts out, cleaned out the insert hole, primed the insert, and epoxied one in. Then I tapped it down gently. Unfortunately the insert isn't flat with the playfield. It is tapped down all the way.

I do not have plans to clear this playfield. I just wanted to replace these inserts because the star rollovers were getting stuck, and some of them were broken.

How do I fix this? Thank you.

555 (resized).jpg555 (resized).jpg

#7149 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Heat it, clamp it down firmly.
If that fails,
Pull/grind/chisle it out.
Sand the top and bottom of the next insert so it fits better.

It is down as far as it can go.
I am sure I could get it out, but I would like to avoid this if possible.
I will sand the bottom of the next insert to avoid duplicating this mistake.

Quoted from vid1900:

Put a piece of Scotch tape on each side of the insert
Hold a brand new utility knife blade across the insert at a 90 degree angle
Draw the blade across, shaving the insert down
As you start to hit the tape, stop - close enough for pinball

Sorry, but I'm trying to understand this.

It's a round insert, so I don't understand what you mean by put Scotch tape on each side.

Is there a specific type of utility knife that you would recommend? I'm picturing this in my head.
razor (resized).jpegrazor (resized).jpeg

Could you clarify?

#7152 3 years ago

Thank you for clarifying. What you describe makes sense to me now.

For the remaining 4 inserts, I'm guessing I should sand the tops prior to epoxying them in place? To be honest, the only reason I did not sand the tops in the first place was because I didn't want to lose the glossy new shine off of the top of the insert (since I'm not clear coating).

This first one was a definite, "oh crap" moment for me.

#7154 3 years ago

Wow. That does look good. Thanks very much!

16
#7158 3 years ago

I am reporting back after receiving advice from vid1900 on how to level out my insert. I would just like to say I was skeptical and scared shitless to try this. Running a razor blade across a playfield is usually something reserved for my nightmares.

I used 4 pieces of cello tape around the insert and a brand new razor blade. 90 degree angle. I applied enough pressure that the blade bent slightly as I dragged it across the insert. I paid close attention to the edges of the razor. I figured if any part of the blade was going to dig in by accident it would be the edges.

1 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg

I could immediately tell it was helping. Red shavings poured off the insert. I wiped the blade down constantly. As I went, I learned that going in one direction was not going to create flush sides all around. I started to come at the insert clockwise. 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock and so on. This allowed the razor blade to start on a different side of the insert every time. I applied the most pressure to the center of the utility blade, but not too much.

As I saw the razor blade shave off the top layers of cello tape I replaced it. In total, I replaced the tape 4-5 times. The razor blade I replaced 3 times. I also rotated the razor blade so I always had a sharp edge going. Out of the 3 new blades I used, the 2nd one proved to be the sharpest. I actually went back to it from the 3rd blade. It just goes to show you manufacturing quality isn't always equal.

All this to say THANK YOU VID!

It worked! Here is the after photo. I used Novus 1 to shine it up a bit. I didn't want to use Novus 2 fearing it would gunk up the insert. The camera picks up a slight edge, but it is not noticeable when you run your finger over it and the ball is unaffected by it. Only 4 more to go! I've learned my lesson. I will sand the next 4.

THANK YOU!

2 (resized).jpg2 (resized).jpg

2 months later
#7249 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You have to sand the sides of the insert or the epoxy won't have any tooth to grab, so sand with 120grt and then see how tight.
If it's still tight at 2/3 down, I'd take a bit more material off the insert sides.
(remember to sand off those mold letters on the faces of the insert before you glue)

Ya, what he said. Don't be like me. It's not worth the stress.

2 weeks later
#7262 3 years ago

Okay, here's a lesson in leave shit alone. I noticed my flippers weren't 100% in alignment on my Surfer so I thought I would adjust them. Mistake. The screw head snapped off. It must be seized in there. I can't remove the flipper assembly because the flipper bat is still installed. I have to do this in the pin.

I am trying to use a Dremel and drill it out but the bit doesn't seem to be eating into the metal very well. You can see the little dent I've put in it after 5 minutes of drilling.

1 (resized).jpg1 (resized).jpg

#7264 3 years ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

Get a screw extracting tool to back it out.
But I feel your pain, seems like those little 5 minute things always turn out to be hours of work.

Thanks. It's been a while (like years) since I looked at screw extractors. Looks like they have advanced a lot while I've been away and that they'll probably do the trick. I'll report back after the fix.

[EDIT] So now that I'm looking for replacement set screws I'm finding articles and wiki's everywhere that basically say throw this type of set screw out. I wish I had know this a couple weeks ago. New question...

What do I replace these set screws with? I would like Allen type screws but is there a part number???

#7267 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It happens to everyone sooner or later
The problem on your Surfer is that the Pawl (sometimes called a "lever" by Gottlieb) is no longer available, so you've got to be careful not to ruin it.
If I were you:
Cut through the nylon Bushing AND the flipper shaft with a dremel (SAFETY GLASSES and shop-vac running are required). This will free the mech from the playfield.
Find your set of Reverse drill bits that you have no idea why you keep, and drill out the screw shaft (these are soft metal screws). About 80% of the time, as you drill, the broken screw will suddenly spin out - still attached to the bit. You are going to need a vise to hold the Pawl, otherwise you will instantly break the drill bit
Some PB Blaster may help free the screw shaft if you soak it overnight before the drilling.
It's such a tiny screw (8-32 I believe) that a Screw Extractor is going to be impossible (especially if it's some crappy asian made extractor)
PBR will have a flipper rebuild kit and of course, you will need a new flipper shaft
http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-GFLIP02A

Damn. I really don't want to bust out the Dremel. I wanted to avoid a shower of sparks if I could. I ordered some screw extractors from Amazon today. They should be here by tomorrow. I couldn't find the reverse bits that I have no idea why I'm keeping. Turns out I don't know where I'm keeping them either.

I actually have a flipper rebuild kit from PBR already. I even have new shoes and shafts. I thought the rebuild kit would include the pawl, but discovered it didn't and now you have told me why. This seems like a pretty important piece to not include! I purchased the rebuild kit ages ago and I've never gotten around to it. It's a shame actually, I've already had the flippers apart already to see how busted up they were. I cleaned them up but didn't replace any parts as there was hardly any wear. This game must have sat idle for years and years or someone must have already swapped things out. I could have swapped out these cruddy set screws then but I didn't know...

So if I manage to get this busted screw out I'll report back here (either way), but for replacement screws I am guessing I just need to get these;
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4008-01079-05

Tim

#7273 3 years ago

Received the screw extractors today. Put the drill in reverse and tried it out. I couldn't even get the bit to eat into the metal and I was giving it some decent pressure. There was no bite at all. The extractor bits I got look like knock offs. They don't feel sharp at all. I'm a little pissed to be honest. We were under lockdown until today so I wasn't able to go into a Home Depot, but I'll hit one tomorrow and try some different ones.

#7276 3 years ago
Quoted from RichWolfson:

It sounds like you are using them incorrectly. You need to drill a hole for it to bite into. Reverse drills are different.
///Rich

Possibly. I watched a video on how to use them though. The bit in the video chewed into the metal. It created the hole. You could see metal flakes. Then they flipped the bit over and extracted it. Maybe they were using an aluminum screw...

Quoted from Pandelis:

Correct, screw extractors are meant to fit in a predrilled hole.
Get a few, because they will probably snap before going dull, new drill bits. Start small diameter than move up in size. Just be careful not to drill into the flipper assembly threads. Get a hole big enough for the extractor to bite or as Sana’a pointed out it spins out. This will normally happen with drill in reverse when you’re backing it out. And yes it is a cussing job.

Cussing mode enabled.

#7278 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A #8 screw is so small that you are really asking a lot from an extractor.
Try drilling a hole in the center (with reverse drill bit), THEN see if the extractor can get a bite into it.
People give me their guitars with a Tremolo that they broke off the #10 arm (thats 10-32 thread) and say they can't get an extractor to work. "It's a Snap-on extractor, and it does not do shlt!!!!". I'll drill first, and most of the time the reverse bit catches and spins it out; if not, I use an extractor in the drilled hole.

I used my drill tonight and got a nice hole in the center of the broken screw. The extractor managed to bite this time, but it wasn't able to hold. It just spun out. I ended up drilling it out what was left of the set screw and managed to get the flipper out of the pawl. The hole in the pawl isn't the original size any longer. All those attempts with the extractors, and drill bits widened the hole. Not by much, but it is noticeable.

I guess it's time to bust out the tap and die set? At least now I can buy whatever size set screws I want.

#7282 3 years ago

So I managed to get a replacement pawl and got some set screws with Allen key sockets. Everything is back to normal now. That was a mini-nightmare I would like to avoid. Thank you for the help everyone.

IMG_20210221_115720 (resized).jpgIMG_20210221_115720 (resized).jpg

4 weeks later
#7342 3 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

The joys of hand cut Rubylith film.

I did silkscreening for 10 years. I haven't used rubylith in over 20 years. At least, not since colour separation could be done on a computer. There was always something so satisfying about cutting through with your X-acto blade and peeling it to reveal the image. The absolute worst was when you had an 8-colour print and misplaced one of the colours.

vid1900 do you know what type(s) of ink were used to silkscreen EMs back in the 70's? I always worked with an air drying nylon ink that seems would be ideal for a playfield. It was difficult to work with and would dry in the nylon screens we used (silk screens were used in the early days hence the name) and you would have to stop mid-run sometimes to wipe blockages from the screen. Usually with lacquer thinner. No masks/eyewear of course. We also used plastisol inks, which were a lot easier to work with but needed to hit 700F to cure the ink. Plastisol had a tendency to shrink as well.

I worked in the shop for 10+ years. Surrounded by lacquer thinner, and paint thinner. We use to keep rags we used in a 5 gallon pail by the 8 head rotating printing press so we could just reach down and grab one. Two of the guys smoked while screen printing. Looking back I'm surprised the place didn't burn down. Ha ha! I didn't have a cold in over 10 years though!

We used rubylith often in the shop. It was mostly used because it was cheaper than any of the alternatives at the time, but often we used it because the artwork we were given wasn't colour separated, or was just too 'dirty' to get a clean image from. If we didn't use ruby then we took the image, usually black on white and shot it with a camera onto a transparency film. That film was stupid expensive, and so was the camera. An 8 colour print required 8 sheets of film to make the transparencies. Those tranparencies were then taken to a light table where the black was usually coloured in with a marker in any area that didn't expose properly. The tranparencies (negatives) and your silk screen were then brought over to a light table and exposed to UV bulbs essentially burning the image into the screen (there is an emulsion on the screen). There's more to it and I'm skipping over a lot of the details, but this is all to say that colour separation back in the 60's and 70's was done by hand. The shop I was working in had the latest "tech" at the time and we were still doing it by hand and that was in the 90's.

All this to say, those 'mistakes' are part of the charm of the era. A graphic artist often just did the design, the art was handed off to be colour separated. Then handed off to the printer to put onto multiple screens, then handed off to the silkscreener.

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