Bryant, AR
Quoted from vid1900:Grey is the hardest color to match, so try not mess with it unless you need too.
Looks like only Stampede needs a decal, the rest look easy fix.
Omg, you are not kidding. Grey sucks. Lol
(Topic ID: 33446)
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Quoted from Langless28:Any hints for dialing in this teal on my time warp? I seem to miss it with adding white m. It got too light so added more drops of blue back. This is wiped with naphtha FYI too.
Add 1/2 a drop of Navy and you are probably good.
Vid, need some more advise for airbrushing, I can't figure out where I'm going wrong so the Createx doesn't peel. If you can take a peek at this post and let me know what I could be doing wrong / forgetting. Many, many thanks!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/polishing-up-a-silverball-mania/page/2#post-4013382
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Vid, need some more advise for airbrushing, I can't figure out where I'm going wrong so the Createx doesn't peel. If you can take a peek at this post and let me know what I could be doing wrong / forgetting. Many, many thanks!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/polishing-up-a-silverball-mania/page/2#post-4013382
It sounds like the paint is too thick, and you might have to peel your masking before the paint glues itself to it permanently.
Is the paint sticking to Frisket (that clear shiny film stuff) or mask from a plotter?
If plotter mask, try scoring the along the mask edge before lifting.
Quoted from Langless28:Any hints for dialing in this teal on my time warp? I seem to miss it with adding white m. It got too light so added more drops of blue back. This is wiped with naphtha FYI too.
I have had really good results with the app “true colors”. I wanted to write a toturial on how I am using it. But has not had the time yet. But I have matched all colors on my t2 including all the greys!
Montreal, QC
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Vid, need some more advise for airbrushing, I can't figure out where I'm going wrong so the Createx doesn't peel. If you can take a peek at this post and let me know what I could be doing wrong / forgetting. Many, many thanks!
Well, I feel for you! I ran into the exact same problem on my first restauration. It took me quite some time to figure it all but for me the solution was really quite simple.
The problem was that I would put down 3 or 4 of what I beleived were thin coats. Every time I peeled the mask off, I would have some degree of paint peeling just like you do.
Eventually, went to thinner and thinner coats. With heat curing in between each. No exceptions. My coats are now so thin they are barely just a mist and I can sometimes barely see any color on the first coat. It now takes me 7-8 coats plus to get full coverage.
It's time consuming for sure but when I peel the mask, all is good.
The heat cures (with a hair dryer) take as much and sometimes more time than the coats of paint. I feel this is important and it works for me.
Here is an example.
Before 1st coat:
IMG_20161023_175007 (resized).jpg
2nd or 3rd coat:
IMG_20161023_195746 (resized).jpg
Last coat:
IMG_20161023_201410 (resized).jpg
Mask removal:
IMG_20161023_201428 (resized).jpg
Hope this helps.
I'm almost ready to spray my first lock down coat of clear on the Pinbot playfield I'm restoring. I've noticed in many posts that people put old bulbs in the lamp holes.
What purpose does this serve?
I have a completely unpopulated playfield (front and back) so no sockets to hold old bulbs.
Is there an issue with getting clear in the holes themselves?
I can see doing this if you are trying to protect mechanisms and wiring on the back side of the PF.
Any guidance will be appreciated!
Thanks!
Quoted from La_Porta:If you have no sockets, you need no bulbs
thanks for the quick response and thank you for the insight. I thought this might be the case but there's some black magic to this stuff and I'm trying to avoid mistakes 
.
Quoted from Walamab:I'm trying to avoid mistakes
I can’t tell you how many questions and repeat questions I’ve asked in this thread. Don’t want to make more mistakes than I already have.
Well let's start off with saying the old quote, "you gotta piss with the c%€¥ you got". I don't have many auto paint stores near me and the only one close and that I could get to today only had "their" brand clear. Got a quart of it and medium activator. Because I was not prepared I asked they guy "I only use shop line or Omni" if you don't have it what's close to it?" And he recommended me the clear I got. Reading the tech data sheet when I got home revealed this is a "medium solids" clear. Also 5-7 min recoat time, 30 min flash time and min 16 hour sand and recoat time. That and it's 4.2 voc. I have all the required safety equipment so I am not concerned with the heath issues but am worried about the additional solvents due to the higher voc rating and what they will do to a playfield/ airbrush paints and decals. Since it's medium solids the thickness is 1-1.3 mils.
Any thought? Give it a whirl and report back? How bad can it be?
Data sheet here FYI.
http://www.finishmaster.com/prod/assets/TDS_-4142.pdf
Quoted from La_Porta:I think my shooter lane came out pretty good after blending in the putty:
Turned out great!
Assuming this is the classic sign of embedded silicone? 1979 to now it must have seen some silicone products in its day? M.E./alcohol, 800 grit and two naphtha wipes andcit still happened. Rest of playfield turned out ok for first time ever using clear and hvlp gun. Also just reviewed a post with you indicating a similar coat is too heavy for first lockdown layer. So I will be sanding and sanding I guess.
Quoted from Langless28:Assuming this is the classic sign of embedded silicone? 1979 to now it must have seen some silicone products in its day? M.E./alcohol, 800 grit and two naphtha wipes andcit still happened. Rest of playfield turned out ok for first time ever using clear and hvlp gun.
Before that gets too dry, use a glass eyedropper and fill those craters with 2pac.
Then it will all sand out level, and you will be OK.
Quoted from vid1900:Before that gets too dry, use a glass eyedropper and fill those craters with 2pac.
Then it will all sand out level, and you will be OK.
Think for lockdown coat this is too heavy? If yes should I go faster, less overlap, or higher off the playfield next time?
Quoted from Langless28:Think for lockdown coat this is too heavy? If yes should I go faster, less overlap, or higher off the playfield next time?
The lockdown coat should be 1/10 of what you have, but for your first run, you did not do too bad.
Once you sand back the crater fill/ repair, you will be at the correct thickness.
Hi Vid1900,
Great thread. I've been reading it for a while now. Lots of info and what I'm looking to find out is probably somewhere in here already.
I'm getting ready to start a play field restore on an EM (GTB Mini Pool) thin / missing paint and planking issues. Do you recommend laying down a clear coat layer before starting on the artwork for an EM, or fix the art, then clear as I think Clay does? I'm not looking for a thick shiny result, something closer to what an original em would look like, maybe 2 or three thin layers.
TIA
-Nervous in NJ
Quoted from DropTarget:Hi Vid1900,
Great thread. I've been reading it for a while now. Lots of info and what I'm looking to find out is probably somewhere in here already.
I'm getting ready to start a play field restore on an EM (GTB Mini Pool) thin / missing paint and planking issues. Do you recommend laying down a clear coat layer before starting on the artwork for an EM, or fix the art, then clear as I think Clay does? I'm not looking for a thick shiny result, something closer to what an original em would look like, maybe 2 or three thin layers.
TIA
-Nervous in NJ
Do all your shooterlane resto, and black keyline fixing, and magic eraser stuff, then lock it down.
There can of course exceptions to the above, but just remember not to lock in dirt....
Really tough to see from the glare, but when I clamped the inserts and applied epoxy, I got epoxy on the insert flat.
It looks horrible now. The green insert is easy to find to replace, however the red arrow (non-jeweled) I have not been able to find a replacement.
I don't know if the epoxy can be sanded/polished off the backside. But now, this looks terrible.
Either -- a source for red non-jeweled inserts (I've looked at all the normal vendors)? or a safe way to remove the expoxy?
Thanks!
Quoted from vid1900:Do all your shooterlane resto, and black keyline fixing, and magic eraser stuff, then lock it down.
There can of course exceptions to the above, but just remember not to lock in dirt....
Hey Vid - I understand doing the shooter lane sanding and magic eraser work (which is essentially a form of sanding) prior to shooting a lockdown coat but I don't get the keyline prior to lockdown part. It would be risky to use vinyl stencils on a playfield that has not been locked down and freehand keylines are never going to be as good as stencils. Could you explain your thinking on this? I don't understand.
Vid
Do you sand between layers of shellac and once you get the right color do you sand the shellac before lockdown clear coat?
Also do you recomend leveling out and fixing the v grooves in the roll overlanes?
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Really tough to see from the glare, but when I clamped the inserts and applied epoxy, I got epoxy on the insert flat.
It looks horrible now. The green insert is easy to find to replace, however the red arrow (non-jeweled) I have not been able to find a replacement.
I don't know if the epoxy can be sanded/polished off the backside. But now, this looks terrible.
Either -- a source for red non-jeweled inserts (I've looked at all the normal vendors)? or a safe way to remove the expoxy?
The epoxy might just chip off because it does not stick too well to plastic.
Sharpen up a small chisel and see if it breaks off. Hold the chisel 90* vertical, not at an angle
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Hey Vid - I understand doing the shooter lane sanding and magic eraser work (which is essentially a form of sanding) prior to shooting a lockdown coat but I don't get the keyline prior to lockdown part. It would be risky to use vinyl stencils on a playfield that has not been locked down and freehand keylines are never going to be as good as stencils. Could you explain your thinking on this? I don't understand.
Many times the outside edge of the keyline is fine, but the inner ring of the insert has worn through. It's a quick fix to fill in the center wear.
You can't always do it, but if you can, you can save a step.
This thread is the reason I decided to buy a pinball machine that needed some work. I have read through this thread (at least 3/4), but I thought I would just post up my questions.
I am just starting to work on a Gottlieb High Hand and I have some questions about the "Suit" inserts (Heart, Spade, Club, & Diamond) and the White Lettering near the top ("100 Points or 1000 Points" & "... Special When Lit") -- the attached picture is NOT my playfield...
Is the "Diamond" & "Heart" inserts just Red inserts with White Paint? If I needed to redo those inserts would I use white paint (same as play cards) and just fisket the Diamond & Heart Shape? Or do I use a White waterslide?
Same thing for the "Spade" & "Club" - White Inserts with Black Paint or waterside?
Finally, how do I go about re-creating the white lettering at the top? It seems like too much to try to fisket off each letter (plus the black keylining/outlining).
Again, this is not my actual playfield BUT I will post some actual picture if necessary. Thanks in advance!
Quoted from China_Grove:Vid
Do you sand between layers of shellac and once you get the right color do you sand the shellac before lockdown clear coat?
Also do you recomend leveling out and fixing the v grooves in the roll overlanes?
I usually sand between shellac layers and clearcoat layers.
I leave the V-grooves, otherwise slow moving balls can get hung up in the slots.
Quoted from vid1900:Do all your shooterlane resto, and black keyline fixing, and magic eraser stuff, then lock it down.
There can of course exceptions to the above, but just remember not to lock in dirt....
THX
Quoted from TaterTot:Is the "Diamond" & "Heart" inserts just Red inserts with White Paint? If I needed to redo those inserts would I use white paint (same as play cards) and just fisket the Diamond & Heart Shape? Or do I use a White waterslide?
I don't have one here in front of me, but I think they are white inserts with red paint.
Quoted from TaterTot:Finally, how do I go about re-creating the white lettering at the top? It seems like too much to try to fisket off each letter (plus the black keylining/outlining).
I'd like to see a closeup of the actual playfield, but normally you paint the text box white, then apply a color-laser printed water slide decal (printed in red, with text clear) over that. They white background shows through the clear text in the red decal.
Quoted from La_Porta:I think my shooter lane came out pretty good after blending in the putty:
Looks great!!! What color did you end up going with for the match?
Quoted from vid1900:Do all your shooterlane resto, and black keyline fixing, and magic eraser stuff, then lock it down.
There can of course exceptions to the above, but just remember not to lock in dirt....
ok, one question leads to another.....
I'm in NJ, by the time I get my rotisserie built, the played stripped & cleaned and the key lines, shooter lane & inserts done, it will be too cold for me to spray clear coat, as I have to shoot outside. which means this project won't be completed until Spring (how depressing). However, I'd like to get the art done over the winter. Would you advise putting the lock down layer down using the brush method, as I'll have to do it inside and then spray the rest when the weather warms up again (or if I can get a proper warmed up area set up in the garage)?
Thx again for all of the great info and your dedication.
Quoted from vid1900:I don't have one here in front of me, but I think they are white inserts with red paint.
I'd like to see a closeup of the actual playfield, but normally you paint the text box white, then apply a color-laser printed water slide decal (printed in red, with text clear) over that. They white background shows through the clear text in the red decal.
Thanks so much for the response! You are awesome!
Here are some pics (sorry for the quality) of my actual play field...
IMG_20171016_170953 (resized).jpg
IMG_20171016_171114 (resized).jpg
IMG_20171016_171013 (resized).jpg
IMG_20171016_171153 (resized).jpg
IMG_20171016_171138 (resized).jpg
Another quick question... What is everyone doing about a Playfield scanner? The HP 4600 are over $100 on eBay (and that is for the ones missing the cords). Is there another decent alternative yet? (Other than Cruze)
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Vid, didn’t you have a “how to build wire guide?”
http://pinballmakers.com/wiki/index.php/Construction#Wireforms
Quoted from vid1900:I'd try heating the garage.
You can rent a salamander, or just get a cheap hanger:
amazon.com link »
Vid, didn’t you have a “how to build wire guide?”
I'm waiting for Vid's "how to build a cheap hanger" guide!
Quoted from TaterTot:Another quick question... What is everyone doing about a Playfield scanner? The HP 4600 are over $100 on eBay (and that is for the ones missing the cords). Is there another decent alternative yet? (Other than Cruze)
The only alternative I am aware of is the Doxie Flip. It runs on batteries, very convenient but it does have a small scan bed which makes stitching large scans a pain. It is not as high resolution as the HP and is not cheaper either. But it is nice to just slap it down without that gaggle of wires to worry about. I have both, got lucky and found a cheap HP locally.
Using an Iriscan Book 5 but same issue. Stitching is a pain - so I just scan individual "chunks" of the playfield artwork that need to be saved. It can scan directly to jpg files at 300 dpi or higher but playfield must be flat (no chunks of wood sticking into the air around screw holes). Only use a hand scanner as a last resort!
iriscan-book-5-by-canon-portable-scanner-with-software-d-2017032815562298~547968 (resized).jpg
Quoted from Chalkey:I'm having the same problem with finding a decent scanner. Is there a repository of playfield scans for decals anywhere? Particularly meteor, gorgar, or sound stage?
I guess if there are no really decent alternatives, then I may try this:
https://mpetroff.net/2013/09/scanner-modifications-to-scan-large-documents/
Last winter I took on my first playfield restoration on a Rollergames pin, and, following Vid's advice to the letter, I was able to get it very nicely restored and playing like new. Now that I've been through the process, naturally I want to restore *all* my pins. My Diner is generally in nice shape, but the thing that is crying out for restoration help is the art around the large playfield inserts, which was wearing badly when I bought the machine. It's a diamond coat playfield, so it's worn decently, but it could definitely use a heavier protective layer. Because the art overlaps the inserts, I'm at a loss as to how best to address the problem. I'd appreciate hearing your ideas:
Is there a minimum grit size you recommend between clear coats so that the grit scratches do not show through to each layer? I have my time warp at 220 grip and mostly leveled. Fixed a lot of that contamination area in the previous picture.
I am also wondering if I should level all the depressions next (after de-glossing them all of course!), then sand flat again, or start touch ups. Then when i am ready to seal in the airbrush work, spray my coat and then fill the low spots?
Quoted from DropTarget:Vid, didn’t you have a “how to build wire guide?”
I'm waiting for Vid's "how to build a cheap hanger" guide!
Somewhere I have a few paragraphs.
You can also use Stainless Welding Rod from HD or any welding shop.
Quoted from Chalkey:I'm having the same problem with finding a decent scanner. Is there a repository of playfield scans for decals anywhere? Particularly meteor, gorgar, or sound stage?
See if you can find a site rip of Ballsofsteel.com before it got shut down.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Last winter I took on my first playfield restoration on a Rollergames pin, and, following Vid's advice to the letter, I was able to get it very nicely restored and playing like new. Now that I've been through the process, naturally I want to restore *all* my pins. My Diner is generally in nice shape, but the thing that is crying out for restoration help is the art around the large playfield inserts, which was wearing badly when I bought the machine. It's a diamond coat playfield, so it's worn decently, but it could definitely use a heavier protective layer. Because the art overlaps the inserts, I'm at a loss as to how best to address the problem. I'd appreciate hearing your ideas:
Dinner is a tough one to restore.
It's always in bad shape (your's is pretty good actually).
You have to match both the color (easy) AND the opacity (harder).
Each layer of paint allows less light through, so I backlight the playfield with a 2x4' florescent lighting fixture. This lets me see, in realtime, how my matching is going.
Quoted from Langless28:Is there a minimum grit size you recommend between clear coats so that the grit scratches do not show through to each layer?
220 will fill in just fine with 2PAC, but so will 400.
Quoted from Langless28:I am also wondering if I should level all the depressions next (after de-glossing them all of course!), then sand flat again, or start touch ups. Then when i am ready to seal in the airbrush work, spray my coat and then fill the low spots?
I probably would have tried to fill those depressions before the 1st coat and saved a step.
Level them now, and then you will have a nice level surface to paint on your next coat.
Quoted from vid1900:Dinner is a tough one to restore.
It's always in bad shape (your's is pretty good actually).
You have to match both the color (easy) AND the opacity (harder).
Each layer of paint allows less light through, so I backlight the playfield with a 2x4' florescent lighting fixture. This lets me see, in realtime, how my matching is going.
Good god, if *you're* saying it's hard to restore...
My first idea was to use shoot clear, waterslide decals to restore the line art, shoot clear over those, then do paint to fill in missing areas. I think I would just accept "close enough" rather than drive myself around the bend with it. Had initially thought of cutting out the art over the inserts altogether, but that seems like an invitation to madness, the more I think on it.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Good god, if *you're* saying it's hard to restore...
My first idea was to use shoot clear, waterslide decals to restore the line art, shoot clear over those, then do paint to fill in missing areas. I think I would just accept "close enough" rather than drive myself around the bend with it. Had initially thought of cutting out the art over the inserts altogether, but that seems like an invitation to madness, the more I think on it.
You can get decals for the customers, http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CA-50C
Quoted from vid1900:See if you can find a site rip of Ballsofsteel.com before it got shut down.
something something rettesoft something .hu
something
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