(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

6 years ago



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There are 6725 posts in this topic. You are on page 97 of 135.
#4801 1 year ago

Got a couple questions I could use some advice on. Any preference for fin shank vs. spiral shank pop bumper screws?

When I go to install them, my CPR playfield has a guide hole but no countersinking. What's the best technique for installing these? Can I just drill them with a #6 countersink bit, or do I need to pre-drill with a larger bit the size of the screw head to cut the clear before I use the countersink?

Any other hints/tips before I give this a go?

Thanks!

#4802 1 year ago
Quoted from tdiddy:

Is there any benefit of layinv my first layer of clear with out the inserts in?

no

Quoted from tdiddy:

Doing thos now would seal the backside and there would be excessive clear in the inserts

Just seal the backside by rolling on latex grey paint, don't spray it on.

#4803 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

a particular area of concern is the burned / dirty area and the spots where it looks like the clear has lifted and become cloudy. Can I Ex-acto around that so it can be airbrushed? Or do I sand? I'm not sure if there's a best approach

I'd use a brand new Xacto and cut it back to solid clear.

#4804 1 year ago
Quoted from China_Grove:

What advise or process to restore the text in the picture below? I am more concern with 100 points area, 1st and triple text due to the white color. The "points" would be a black decal, but what about the white inside text? do you make a black decal and paint the inside white?

Sometimes I just mix up some matching off-white color and wipe it into the crack.

Quoted from China_Grove:

Also what is the best water slide decal paper?

Lots of people on this forum like this:

http://www.decalpaper.com/category-s/3.htm

#4805 1 year ago
Quoted from alexmogil:

Ok, so the screws under the shooter lane are the same size as every other mounting screw under the play field, so I'm not sure what happened. Perhaps the previous operator overtightened the screws. I'm guessing I'll have to fill the screw holes with a skewer and wood glue, and maybe use a small washer to ensure the screw tips don't pop out again?

In any case here's the condition of the lane and hopefully the screw dents are visible.

I definitely feel the lane needs cleaned and the protrusions sanded down, but does it need repaired?

Sand and clean the lane, no structural repair needed.

Yes, make sure you shim any screws so they don't poke through.

#4806 1 year ago
Quoted from Toyguy:

Got a couple questions I could use some advice on. Any preference for fin shank vs. spiral shank pop bumper screws?
When I go to install them, my CPR playfield has a guide hole but no countersinking. What's the best technique for installing these? Can I just drill them with a #6 countersink bit, or do I need to pre-drill with a larger bit the size of the screw head to cut the clear before I use the countersink?
Any other hints/tips before I give this a go?
Thanks!

I always use a coutersink bit and make sure the head is completely recessed.

You can use the same screw to make your restoration authentic, they both work the same, so don't sweat it.

#4807 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd use a brand new Xacto and cut it back to solid clear.

Thanks Vid! I appreciate it

#4808 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I always use a coutersink bit and make sure the head is completely recessed.
You can use the same screw to make your restoration authentic, they both work the same, so don't sweat it.

Thanks Vid. I was just worried that the countersink bit alone might fracture the clear or something. It will sure be a lot easier using just the countersink bit!

#4809 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's waterproof once dry, so as long as you don't have **too much** moisture on the playfield, you should be good.
If you are saying that the Createx has moisture, it's ammonia based and drys very quickly.
Thin it with ammonia, clean it up before it dries with water.

Thank you, sir!

#4810 1 year ago
Quoted from Toyguy:

Thanks Vid. I was just worried that the countersink bit alone might fracture the clear or something. It will sure be a lot easier using just the countersink bit!

Make sure the bit is BRAND NEW.

Turn it by hand, not with a screw gun.

#4811 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The investment is quite small, as long as you can borrow someone's compressor. Way under $75.
You spend $150 on a plastic ramp, so by comparison, this stuff is cheap!
You'll need an air compressor with a bigger size tank, 30 gallons or larger (nobody ever complained they bought too large of a compressor). That's the High Volume part of High Volume Low Pressure (HVLP). If you are going to get a really big air compressor to use with air tools and the like (60-80-100 gallon), don't get a crappy aluminum head Husky or Craftsman. Get a real iron headed compressor (like a Saylor-Beall) used on Craigslist. It will outlast you and cost less than the Husky. The iron headed compressors can be completely rebuilt, unlike the aluminum.
You'll need a water separator:
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-tool-accessories/12-standard-air-filter-68279.html
You'll need a moisture filter that installs at the gun:
http://www.harborfreight.com/disposable-inline-moisture-filter-68224.html
You'll need a regulator that installs at the gun (you don't want to keep walking back to the compressor):
http://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools/air-tool-accessories/125-psi-air-flow-regulator-with-gauge-68219.html
You'll need the HVLP gun:
http://widgets.harborfreight.com/wswidgets/common/displayCoupon.do?week=0813&campaign=b&page=coupon18.html&single=true&cust=77933728034&keycode=1012
-
Of course once you have a nice sized air compressor, you can wet sand pneumatically and get the playfield really flat.

regulator/air filer in one link update: https://www.harborfreight.com/38-in-air-filter-with-regulator-68232.html
HVLP gun link update: https://www.harborfreight.com/20-fl-oz-hvlp-gravity-feed-air-spray-gun-62300.html

#4812 1 year ago

Vid I've located a used HP4670 scanner to make my decals for the CrossTown playfield. What program can I use to fix the areas I scan before printing the decals. Thanks again for the help.

IMG_0253 (resized).JPG

#4813 1 year ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

Vid I've located a used HP4670 scanner to make my decals for the CrossTown playfield. What program can I use to fix the areas I scan before printing the decals. Thanks again for the help.

I'd use Photoshop.

You don't need the latest version, just a cheap old version will do everything a pinball restorer needs.

If you are still running Win8 or 7, it's free.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-get-photoshop-for-free/

If you have any .edu email addresses you can use, you can buy an **education copy** for $69-100 of the latest greatest.

#4814 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd use Photoshop.
You don't need the latest version, just a cheap old version will do everything a pinball restorer needs.
If you are still running Win8 or 7, it's free.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-get-photoshop-for-free/
If you have any .edu email addresses you can use, you can buy an **education copy** for $69-100 of the latest greatest.

um, yeah I think it's now down to you can rent CC versions for a discount with an .edu address, unless someone has a better link than me.

#4815 1 year ago

Here is the whole CS2 with training discs and books for $35

ebay.com link » Genuine Adobe Photoshop Cs2 Desktop Imaging Software Training Disc Serial No

Or $12 here without training disc:

ebay.com link » Adobe Photoshop Cs2 Software X Windows

If you are smart enough to restore a pinball machine playfield, you can probably find the Bay where all the ships dock and unload their wares.

Or if you are not the type to hang out and get your belly shaved with a rusty razor, you can get GIMP for free:

https://www.gimp.org/

ac4cfbe7fcd6274130db984b5948ace6_vice_670 (resized).jpg

#4816 1 year ago

For you guys using the HP4600 scanner, does it run on windows 7 (drivers)?

#4817 1 year ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

For you guys using the HP4600 scanner, does it run on windows 7 (drivers)?

I use it on my windows 7 laptop fine, but not in a USB 3.0 port, only 2.0

#4818 1 year ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

For you guys using the HP4600 scanner, does it run on windows 7 (drivers)?

Yup. Works fine.

#4819 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd use Photoshop.
You don't need the latest version, just a cheap old version will do everything a pinball restorer needs.
If you are still running Win8 or 7, it's free.
https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/how-to-get-photoshop-for-free/
If you have any .edu email addresses you can use, you can buy an **education copy** for $69-100 of the latest greatest.

While the methodology may have changed there is an archive org that also maintains the old Adobe links for that software.

And CS2 works under 10.

#4820 1 year ago

Quick question, Vid. My 3x insert somewhat sagged from heat and developed lines in the plastic itself. I figured that would go away when I filled with 2PAC, but they seem to only have been accentuated. I tried getting into them while deglossing with the steel wool, but it looks like they are really far under there. What to do about this? Any way to stop this in the future?

0BAFFDD0-A9E8-4A71-8600-842354A9491D (resized).jpeg

#4821 1 year ago

I'm getting close to the point where I have to shoot my first layer of clear - but I'm not sure how many passes to do for the first coat.

My plan is to shoot three times:

First coat for locking in the current paint and give me a surface to airbrush
Second coat to cover the airbrush job and give me a surface for decals
Third coat as final top coat.

So for each coat am I doing multiple passes? And do I sand *between* those passes? Is it like this:

1st Coat: one quick pass, wait some time (hour or whatever according to 2pac spec sheet) for hardening, sand, fill depressions with eyedropper and knock down any pooled or raised areas, clean then pass again, sand

Repair paint on playfield

2nd coat: one pass, wait for sandable hardening, sand for tooth, pass again, sand

Decals and any paint touch ups missed

3rd coat, pass, wait for sandable hardening, sand for tooth, pass, sand, polish.

Is there a post that goes through the specific gameplan for passes?

#4822 1 year ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Quick question, Vid. My 3x insert somewhat sagged from heat and developed lines in the plastic itself. I figured that would go away when I filled with 2PAC, but they seem to only have been accentuated. I tried getting into them while deglossing with the steel wool, but it looks like they are really far under there. What to do about this? Any way to stop this in the future?

If they are under the old clear, you can scrape back with a VERTICAL sharp chisel.

If they are inside the plastic as striations, then you can't do anything about them.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1739707

#4823 1 year ago

Thanks, I used the chisel method plus sanding. I got past the old clear, sanded off the ink, and now the insert appears clear without blemish. Just have to drip in clear and try again. Thank you!

#4824 1 year ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Thanks, I used the chisel method plus sanding. I got past the old clear, sanded off the ink, and now the insert appears clear without blemish. Just have to drip in clear and try again. Thank you!

La Porta what kind of clear are you using?

#4825 1 year ago

Hi Vid - I know this doesn't really jive with the permanent fixes/restores that you are giving advice on here, but I have an MM that I am trying just trying to make look better.

I have some PF damage on the shield portion of my MM and have decided that an overlay is probably the best option considering effort and money. From some research, I could only find two for sale, which are listed below. My question is - does anyone have any experience with either of these, and if so, which is the best option for a color/size/quality standpoint?

http://www.ministryofpinball.com/en/medieval-madness-playfield-overlay.html

http://www.pinball.center/en/shop/pinball-parts-by-game/medieval-madness/3773/overlay-for-medieval-madness

Furthermore, if anyone has a repro or extremely nice MM playfield that they would consider trading for a NOS Tales from the Crypt Playfield, please let me know!

3baa323d8f0aaf47e03213c79cdf3cb8d21823f6.png (resized).jpg

#4826 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

La Porta what kind of clear are you using?

This is the stuff I have. Got it on Amazon.

amazon.com link »

#4827 1 year ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

This is the stuff I have. Got it on Amazon.
amazon.com link »

Gotcha, thanks! I can't tell what game that is, but I assume it's an earlier SS game?

#4828 1 year ago

Firepower. The only resto I will ever do! Lots of work involved...fun, but I have little kids. Difficult to find time for using 2PAC and such!

#4829 1 year ago

Best printer for printing yellow (and black) decals without breaking the bank?

Also, for the insert, better to remove and clean the hole/glue or just clamp and glue from behind?

Thanks for your input!

IMG_3231 (resized).JPG

IMG_3232 (resized).JPG

#4830 1 year ago

Hi Guy,

The French restorer I know isn't using decals for insert (only from frame work in rare cases, as he prefers to make paint gradation instead).

But he uses a plotter to make masks/stencils, and recover inserts by painting... This allow to reduce the quantity of clear layers. Anyway this doesn't prevent to seal previous painting spraying clear to save previous work as intermediary step(s)...

#4831 1 year ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Best printer for printing yellow (and black) decals without breaking the bank?

Paint yellow, then decal laser printed black decal over the top.

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Also, for the insert, better to remove and clean the hole/glue or just clamp and glue from behind?

If the insert is the proper height, then just epoxy from behind.

#4832 1 year ago

I was just wondering if anyone has been successful with airbrushing a wood grain pattern on the bare wood areas of a playfiled? I have seen the work by HSA and think it looks pretty cool. I have a playfield which I am restoring, that had mould growing on it! I'm thinking of re-doing all the bare wood areas and wondered if anyone had any tips?

#4833 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If the insert is the proper height, then just epoxy from behind.

Vid I was referencing the large blue arrow insert that is lifted in all corners.

Thanks!

IMG_3232 (resized).JPG

#4834 1 year ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Vid I was referencing the large blue arrow insert that is lifted in all corners.
Thanks!

Oh,that....yeah remove it and glue it in flush.

Then fill it with 2Pac to reinforce and level.

#4835 1 year ago
Quoted from alexmogil:

I'm getting close to the point where I have to shoot my first layer of clear - but I'm not sure how many passes to do for the first coat.
My plan is to shoot three times:
First coat for locking in the current paint and give me a surface to airbrush
Second coat to cover the airbrush job and give me a surface for decals
Third coat as final top coat.
So for each coat am I doing multiple passes? And do I sand *between* those passes? Is it like this:
1st Coat: one quick pass, wait some time (hour or whatever according to 2pac spec sheet) for hardening, sand, fill depressions with eyedropper and knock down any pooled or raised areas, clean then pass again, sand
Repair paint on playfield
2nd coat: one pass, wait for sandable hardening, sand for tooth, pass again, sand
Decals and any paint touch ups missed
3rd coat, pass, wait for sandable hardening, sand for tooth, pass, sand, polish.
Is there a post that goes through the specific gameplan for passes?

Sorry Vid, but did you have any specific advice on this?

#4836 1 year ago
Quoted from alexmogil:

Sorry Vid, but did you have any specific advice on this?

I tried to respond to that and the forum said "Please wait before posting again", lol.

First, fix your shooter lane, , patch any saucers, clean up any ball swirl, fix black keylines and level your inserts - then put down the lockdown coat.

Then paint and decal. You can lockdown colors as you work if you need to decal over them (decals like to stick to shiny surfaces), so you may have a few intermediate clearcoats.

Finally, put 2 coats of clear over your work, and you are done.

#4837 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I tried to respond to that and the forum said "Please wait before posting again", lol.
First, fix your shooter lane, , patch any saucers, clean up any ball swirl, fix black keylines and level your inserts - then put down the lockdown coat.
Then paint and decal. You can lockdown colors as you work if you need to decal over them (decals like to stick to shiny surfaces), so you may have a few intermediate clearcoats.
Finally, put 2 coats of clear over your work, and you are done.

Ok so there's a goal of four coats overall with the potential of other coats on a case by case basis. Perfect. Now, I expect to have to do a little bit of insert filling after the first coat so I see two initial coats, and then painting.

I got my shooter lane pretty, so I'll work on some key lines next. I'm not sure why in my mind I got the key lines after the lock coat.

Thanks!

#4838 1 year ago

Actually, what he recommended to me was to insert fill first, then spray your first coat. After having just filled them, it makes sense to me why.

#4839 1 year ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Actually, what he recommended to me was to insert fill first, then spray your first coat. After having just filled them, it makes sense to me why.

Oh... well I mean I saw an earlier post where low spots needed to be filled after the first coat:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/19#post-1782151

So I assumed that's what he meant on that. Spray a light first coat, sand, fill the depressions with clear, sand, and then recoat.

#4840 1 year ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Actually, what he recommended to me was to insert fill first, then spray your first coat. After having just filled them, it makes sense to me why.

I tried that once but when I sprayed, it pushed a lot of the clear out of the insert. I prefer to fill 15 min after I spray my last coat. But I'm no professional.

#4841 1 year ago
Quoted from alexmogil:

Oh... well I mean I saw an earlier post where low spots needed to be filled after the first coat:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/19#post-1782151
So I assumed that's what he meant on that. Spray a light first coat, sand, fill the depressions with clear, sand, and then recoat.

That picture was to demonstrate how the insert can fool you.

It **felt** flat, but the first sanding showed it was concave.

Fix your insert keylines, fill the cupped ones, then spray your lockdown coat.

If you mess up (like I did in that pic), no big deal, you fix it before the next coat.

#4842 1 year ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

I tried that once but when I sprayed, it pushed a lot of the clear out of the insert. I prefer to fill 15 min after I spray my last coat. But I'm no professional.

I usually let it harden before spraying near it, or like you said, the clear will blow out of the insert.

Also, if a fisheye develops (especially around the edge of an insert). Wait about 15 minutes, and just drip some clear to fill it back in.

#4843 1 year ago

Vid,

I picked up a really nice NBA FB playfield recently. My plans are to follow your guide and restore it. It's a really nice playfield. Problem is that I got no rails for it. What do you recommend I use as temporary rails? Is there a possibility of playfield warping? Thanks!

#4844 1 year ago
Quoted from MiamiRedSkin:

Hi Vid - I know this doesn't really jive with the permanent fixes/restores that you are giving advice on here, but I have an MM that I am trying just trying to make look better.
I have some PF damage on the shield portion of my MM and have decided that an overlay is probably the best option considering effort and money. From some research, I could only find two for sale, which are listed below. My question is - does anyone have any experience with either of these, and if so, which is the best option for a color/size/quality standpoint?
http://www.ministryofpinball.com/en/medieval-madness-playfield-overlay.html
http://www.pinball.center/en/shop/pinball-parts-by-game/medieval-madness/3773/overlay-for-medieval-madness
Furthermore, if anyone has a repro or extremely nice MM playfield that they would consider trading for a NOS Tales from the Crypt Playfield, please let me know!

Any advice?

#4845 1 year ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Problem is that I got no rails for it. What do you recommend I use as temporary rails? Is there a possibility of playfield warping? Thanks!

Rip some 3/4 plywood on the table saw into 4" strips.

Using the EXISTING rail screw holes in the playfield, run some screws into the "endgrain" of the plywood.

#4846 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That picture was to demonstrate how the insert can fool you.
It **felt** flat, but the first sanding showed it was concave.
Fix your insert keylines, fill the cupped ones, then spray your lockdown coat.
If you mess up (like I did in that pic), no big deal, you fix it before the next coat.

Ok. if you can't tell I'm hesitant on doing something out of order but I'm getting to the point where I'm going to do the first spray soon, so I feel like I am approaching the no turning back stage.

I am going to waterslide decal all of the inserts - I shouldn't have to do keylines for inserts beforehand if all of my decals have good solid (and thicker) keyline borders, right?

#4847 1 year ago
Quoted from MiamiRedSkin:

Hi Vid - I know this doesn't really jive with the permanent fixes/restores that you are giving advice on here, but I have an MM that I am trying just trying to make look better.
I have some PF damage on the shield portion of my MM and have decided that an overlay is probably the best option considering effort and money. From some research, I could only find two for sale, which are listed below. My question is - does anyone have any experience with either of these, and if so, which is the best option for a color/size/quality standpoint?
http://www.ministryofpinball.com/en/medieval-madness-playfield-overlay.html
http://www.pinball.center/en/shop/pinball-parts-by-game/medieval-madness/3773/overlay-for-medieval-madness
Furthermore, if anyone has a repro or extremely nice MM playfield that they would consider trading for a NOS Tales from the Crypt Playfield, please let me know!

Decals are just decals, they wear away, but if you need a fix that lasts a year, they are fine.

I'll look when I'm back in the States if I have a restored MM playfield in my pile.

#4848 1 year ago

So I finally got down to it, and got my "booth" set up, got dressed up in a ll the gear (minus the gloves in the pic), and sprayed the thing. The SprayMax 2K worked pretty good; it was hard to see how much I was spraying because it was kind of dark, and I wound up with some of that whiteness in places that comes from too heavy spray. I'm fairly certain it will go back to clear as it cures as other things do. Vid, I'll keep you updated, and thanks for all of your help!

IMG_1997 (resized).JPGIMG_1996 (resized).JPGIMG_1999 (resized).JPGIMG_2001 (resized).JPG

#4849 1 year ago

Hi Vid I love this thread thanks for helping everyone out.
OK let get to my questions.
I have my playfield stripped down .I have a couple of issues first I need to replace a couple of the insert decals as shown in pic 3.
I bought the full sheet of insert decals .so My first Q is after removing the decal do I just put the new one on and clear over it or treat it like a water slide and clear under and over?
2nd a lot of the inserts have minor chipping at the bottom pic 2. would you just touch up the key line? or since I have all the decals go ahead and replace all the worst ones?
3. why would someone put a nail in there (pic1) and should I just remove it?
4. to degloss the playfield to give the clear some bite what's the best (safest) way to do that 220 sandpaper? or steel wool? other?
sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance.

20170927_195557 (resized).jpg
20170927_195522 (resized).jpg
20170927_192605 (resized).jpg

#4850 1 year ago

So I have been working on-and-off on this Waterworld playfield for a while now, more to practice than anything else. And thruth be told, I have not been that careful because this playfield probably isn't going back in a game and also because I'm generally less careful than I should be.

Second coat of clear on Sunday and I get all these micro bubbles.

Pressure isn't high enough?

Can a 4-to-1 mix ratio slightly off lead to bubbles?

Can shooting too close to the playfield be an issue?

I am saving the best for the end. I mistakenly dipped the cup I had used to measure the hardener in the clear when I shot the first coat. That was a while back and the clear seems ok and fluid, but it does not mean it isn't a problem.

I shot the clear outside without a booth and using a pancake compressor but except for the 3 flies that landed on the playfield, I don't think it created the bubbles.

IMG_5056 (resized).JPG

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