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(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



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#4601 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Oil turns yellow, so don't use that on anything that has to match.
Buy a quart of the most expensive flat or eggshell paint they have.
Cheap paint will need to go on too thick for our uses; and cheap paint won't sand.
Dry times will vary, so give extra time if you are used to dealing with Createx

ill give it a try and report back, thanks!

#4602 3 years ago

Vid, would you recommend laying decals over inserts that already still have their paint on them? For instance, if an insert has a perfectly legible "F" over it, and looks ok, is there any point to putting a decal over it, or is that overkill? Would it make sense to if the letter is ok, but, as on most decals, the key lining is crappy and could use a new ring of black over it?

#4603 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Vid, would you recommend laying decals over inserts that already still have their paint on them? For instance, if an insert has a perfectly legible "F" over it, and looks ok, is there any point to putting a decal over it, or is that overkill? Would it make sense to if the letter is ok, but, as on most decals, the key lining is crappy and could use a new ring of black over it?

If the lettering is good, no need to decal over it.

Just do the Keylines, if necessary.

#4604 3 years ago

How about gouges like this on top of inserts? Should I just sand and fill with clear? Or should I take off all of the top, including paint, and get it back flat?

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#4605 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I use Two Heads epoxy, but you can use just about any brand. One of my favorite restorers has been using the Harbor Freight $1.50 stuff (http://www.harborfreight.com/super-strong-quick-drying-epoxy-92665.html ) for years with perfect results.

Test your epoxy first! I'm a big fan of Harbor Freight just like Vid, however I just bought some two-part Epoxy from them and it was absolute feces. I mixed it in the proper 50/50 ratio and the stuff would not set. Even hours later The stuff on my scrap cardboard would still would not set.

I'm not saying don't use it , I'm saying if you decide to use it test it first. Harbor freight is great but quality control is not their strong suit.

I think if you're going to use $4 dollar a bottle createx paint ( which I do ) instead of $.99 junk. You should not skimp on epoxy with a questionable quality control. Mine could be an isolated incident so definitely test your epoxy first and make sure it sets properly.

#4606 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

How about gouges like this on top of inserts? Should I just sand and fill with clear? Or should I take off all of the top, including paint, and get it back flat?

DON'T SAND INSERTS FLAT.

They are too thin already, that's why they cupped.

Scuff them up with sandpaper for tooth, then fill them with 2PAC to level and reinforce.

#4607 3 years ago
Quoted from wantdataeast:

Test your epoxy first! I'm a big fan of Harbor Freight just like Vid, however I just bought some two-part Epoxy from them and it was absolute feces. I mixed it in the proper 50/50 ratio and the stuff would not set. Even hours later The stuff on my scrap cardboard would still would not set.

I had some gorilla epoxy like that, it would never set.

I believe that both bottles were the epoxy component (the epoxy was mislabeled as hardener?).

When I added West Systems hardener to either, it hardened in about 10 minutes.

I could not really trust mixing 2 different brands together, so I just used it to fill holes in my workbench.

#4608 3 years ago

Yes! I promise I wasn't going to sand flat! Thanks for all the guidance.

#4609 3 years ago

Vid,

I found a post you made regarding pre-drilling holes. The whole point of pre drilling is to remove clear around the hole so the screw doesn't touch the clear.

A brad drill bit has wings that enable the bit to cut a clean hole through the clear a little bigger than the hole itself. If it safe to assume that if I was to drill past the clear, I would damage the top of the hole with the drill bit wings? If so, what is the safest way to prevent drilling past the clear? Thanks!

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#4610 3 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

A brad drill bit has wings that enable the bit to cut a clean hole through the clear a little bigger than the hole itself. If it safe to assume that if I was to drill past the clear, I would damage the top of the hole with the drill bit wings? If so, what is the safest way to prevent drilling past the clear? Thanks!

Just turn the bit by hand, you won't go too far.

Don't use that bit for anything other than playfields, because if it gets dull, it won't cut without chipping.

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#4611 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just turn the bit by hand, you won't go too far.
Don't use that bit for anything other than playfields, because if it gets dull, it won't cut without chipping.

What is the size of bit you use for most holes?

#4612 3 years ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

What is the size of bit you use for most holes?

I've got a set and just grab whatever one fits the hole best.

#4613 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I've got a set and just grab whatever one fits the hole best.

Just another Friday night eh?

#4614 3 years ago

Great mental image. Thanks, Mental Imagetrumpet

I have some pretty good grey deck paint, some white house primer, some little brushes and all sorts of stuff to protect my holes from stray paint (and whatever tools you two are going to grab randomly). The back of the playfield's depopulated except for some bolts and the back ends of the T-nuts that I'm definitely not trying to remove. If I were to screw up painting the back of this playfield, what would I do next?

#4615 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just turn the bit by hand, you won't go too far.
Don't use that bit for anything other than playfields, because if it gets dull, it won't cut without chipping.

Vid,

Will this also work on clear that has fully hardened?

Also, regarding the screws that "hold" the T-nuts (pictured), Is there really a "need" for them to "hold" the T-nut once the corresponding screw (motor) is installed in the T-nut? I figure the motor screw will hold the T-nut and not let it spin?

In one of the T-nuts I installed, the hole for the screw is barely visible. Do I really need to install the screw to hold the T-nut or can I get away with not installing it? Thanks Vid!

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#4616 3 years ago

Hey everyone, I wanted to recommend a heat gun that I have had a lot of good success with: The Wagner Furno 700.

amazon.com link »

It is very forgiving for any user, as the temperature is set directly by degree in a wide range, not just "Low-Medium-High" settings that you can easily use to char your project. Comes with 4 or so adaptors to direct the hot air where you want it. Very versatile, and well made, too.

#4617 3 years ago

I’m hoping for some help from Photoshop users /experts.

I’ve scanned the playfield parts that need to have decals and put it into photoshop.
Once in the scanned image, I outlined the area to be cleaned up, copied that area and added it to a layer. I then cleaned the image up in the layer.
Now I have several files with layers in them.
How do I now take all these images in layers, put them into one sheet and then print them to decal paper?
I also want to make several copies of one particular image that is used a lot on the playfield. Is that done by copy and paste ?

Thanks for any help.

#4618 3 years ago
Quoted from flakeloaf:

Great mental image. Thanks, Mental Imagetrumpet
I have some pretty good grey deck paint, some white house primer, some little brushes and all sorts of stuff to protect my holes from stray paint (and whatever tools you two are going to grab randomly). The back of the playfield's depopulated except for some bolts and the back ends of the T-nuts that I'm definitely not trying to remove. If I were to screw up painting the back of this playfield, what would I do next?

You can put the playfield up on 2 sawhorses and roll the paint on upsidedown.

You can't screw it up that way.

#4619 3 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

Now I have several files with layers in them.
How do I now take all these images in layers, put them into one sheet and then print them to decal paper?

You can just hit print one copy on plain paper and make sure the image is correct.

Quoted from Hitch9:

I also want to make several copies of one particular image that is used a lot on the playfield. Is that done by copy and paste ?

Make a new, 8.5 x11 (or whatever) blank project, paste all your images onto it, mindful of the borders required by your printer.

#4620 3 years ago

Vid,

Is it recommended to wax a clear coated playfield before starting the assembly? Thanks

#4621 3 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Vid,
Is it recommended to wax a clear coated playfield before starting the assembly? Thanks

Absolutely.

It's your only chance to wax the whole thing so dust does not stick in the corners.

#4622 3 years ago

Hey Vid, I got a new CPR in storage for my next project. I'm wondering if I should clear/varnish the backside to keep it clean and easier to clean in the future? What product do you recommend? Any type of varnish? Should I sand before to make it as smooth as possible?

Thanks!

#4623 3 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

Hey Vid, I got a new CPR in storage for my next project. I'm wondering if I should clear/varnish the backside to keep it clean and easier to clean in the future? What product do you recommend? Any type of varnish? Should I sand before to make it as smooth as possible?
Thanks!

I'd just leave it as is.

CPR already cleared or painted grey the backsides when they made it.

If you just want something to do, I guess you could sand and then poly the back, upsidedown across 2 sawhorses with a roller.

Make sure you leave it out for a few months, poly takes forever to dry completely.

#4624 3 years ago
Quoted from Hitch9:

I’m hoping for some help from Photoshop users /experts.
I’ve scanned the playfield parts that need to have decals and put it into photoshop.
Once in the scanned image, I outlined the area to be cleaned up, copied that area and added it to a layer. I then cleaned the image up in the layer.
Now I have several files with layers in them.
How do I now take all these images in layers, put them into one sheet and then print them to decal paper?
I also want to make several copies of one particular image that is used a lot on the playfield. Is that done by copy and paste ?
Thanks for any help.

I'm a lot better at Photoshop than playfield restorations, so maybe I can help.

It sounds like you have a Photoshop file with multiple layers of art you've modified and you want to know how to make all of your work into a single file (e.g get rid of layers) so you can print out decals?

There are a couple of things that might be useful for you based on your exact needs (there are many different ways to do what I think you want, so I'm just going to try and keep the simplest):

1. What you "see" in your photoshop file is what will print out. So you may not need to do anything at all. Note that you can 'turn off' the visibility (and thus not print) a layer by clicking on the 'eye' icon next to each layer. When you want it back, just click the eye again.

2. The above is not helpful if you want to align multiple layers next to each other and then work on them as one larger, combined layer rather than a bunch of separate layers. What I do is create a duplicate of the original photoshop file (just in case you need to go back to this step) select "save as" and create a new name for your file. Once you're in this new file (still with all the same layers from your original) you can align your separate layers or whatever you need to do, and then when you are happy, cmd-click to select all the layers you want to combine and then right click and then select "merge layers" from the menu that appears. Another method would be to "flatten image" which is in the "edit" drop down menu (I think, might be under "layers" instead). Either of these will combine the layers if you want to edit them all in one 'image' or layer.

3. You can save your photoshop file as a jpeg, png or a PDF file if you need to by going to "File" "Export" then usually "Save for web" and then select the file format you want to use. Similar to #2 above this will 'combine' all your layers (that are visible- as in #1 above) into a single jpeg, etc... file. To save as a PDF you select "Save as" in the "File" menu and then in the dialog box select "photoshop pdf" as your file type (you can uncheck all the options to keep layers or retain original Photoshop editing abilities to reduce the file size).

I hope this helps. The options and menus might be slightly different depending on what version of PS you are using and your operating system.

#4625 3 years ago

Thanks Quinntopia and thanks Vid1900 !
That is exactly what I was looking for, and it worked. I've printed out my sheets and I am good to go. Thanks for the quick tutoring lesson for me. I was surprised at how powerful Photoshop is.

#4626 3 years ago

Hi Vid

I picked up a cheap Sinbad which I can use for parts. The playfield was in good shape for the most part, but absolutely filthy.

My question is related to these pockmarks in the shooter lane and the "rut" along the top arch.
These photos are after a simple surface cleaning.
They seem to be very small holes in the clear where dirt has accumulated.

I would assume that the right approach would be to start with ME and alcohol. If that doesn't work, I suppose the only way to remove the dirty spots/holes and fix the upper arch ball rut is to sand it down.

Is that the right approach? Is there a better solution I am missing?

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#4627 3 years ago

Yep, a ball trail that deep will need sanding, and then staining, because the sanded wood will be too light.

#4628 3 years ago

Vid, can you suggest a method to fill these scratches that were in the pf before it was cleared? The entire area will either get water slides or repaint... would you fill these with a 0000 brush with clear or try and sand the area flat then apply another layer of clear?

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#4629 3 years ago

Hi Vid, is it always best to use the original style inserts or is changing, say, an opaque red insert to a red starburst insert considered acceptable? I am gathering supplies to start restoring a Quicksilver. A lot of crazing and cracking of inserts (and some very deep cupping). I have ordered original style inserts but I have also ordered some starburst inserts - just for kicks. Is there any room for artistic license when it comes to inserts?

#4630 3 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Vid, can you suggest a method to fill these scratches that were in the pf before it was cleared? The entire area will either get water slides or repaint... would you fill these with a 0000 brush with clear or try and sand the area flat then apply another layer of clear?

You can just drip clear into them (make sure the playfield is level), then block sand flat.

Next time, if the whole area is getting decaled or painted, you can just Bondo it before clearing.

#4631 3 years ago
Quoted from klr650:

Hi Vid, is it always best to use the original style inserts or is changing, say, an opaque red insert to a red starburst insert considered acceptable? I am gathering supplies to start restoring a Quicksilver. A lot of crazing and cracking of inserts (and some very deep cupping). I have ordered original style inserts but I have also ordered some starburst inserts - just for kicks. Is there any room for artistic license when it comes to inserts?

Always use the original style. Using the wrong inserts (especially jeweled ones) stands out like a sore thumb.

Just fill the cupped inserts if no new ones are available.

Once filled, they are reinforced and should be solid.

Even brand new inserts can have crazing once the clear hits them, it's nothing to even think about.

#4632 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can just drip clear into them (make sure the playfield is level), then block sand flat.
Next time, if the whole area is getting decaled or painted, you can just Bondo it before clearing.

Speaking of Bondo, I'm having an absolute bear of a time getting JB-Weld to set properly around this sinkhole. No matter how vigorously I mix it, it "cures" all tacky... but only on the painted side of the playfield. Wood side, and anywhere it drips, it dries rock-hard no problem. Around the scoop, it's more like dry agar.

Guessing that this is just the wrong tool for the job, and I should be using Bondo for this.

#4633 3 years ago
Quoted from flakeloaf:

Guessing that this is just the wrong tool for the job, and I should be using Bondo for this.

Bondo feathers out beautifully for that job.

#4634 3 years ago

I'm starting a restore of my Crosstown playfield. The intention is to touch up the paint, fill the inserts and clear with 2pac. I finished removing everything from the top tonight and am a bit shocked at the amount of dirt and paint lose. My next step is to do an initial clean, then melamine. Is it OK to use simple green on a rag to do the initial cleaning? My shoes are cleaner than this.

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#4635 3 years ago

Any suggestions as to how I can clean out all of the crud inside the teeth of my star inserts? I've been trying to floss things in and out of there, but it's not going very well.

#4636 3 years ago

Vid is there a limit to how much insert cupping that can be fixed by filling with 2PAC? Most of my inserts on a 66 Crosstown are cupped a reasonable amount, but several are approximately 3/32 deep. Thanks for the help.

#4637 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Any suggestions as to how I can clean out all of the crud inside the teeth of my star inserts? I've been trying to floss things in and out of there, but it's not going very well.

Aren't Star inserts like $1 each? Why not order one with your next supplies order, compare to original,and if they look good order more and swap them out

#4638 3 years ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

I'm starting a restore of my Crosstown playfield. The intention is to touch up the paint, fill the inserts and clear with 2pac. I finished removing everything from the top tonight and am a bit shocked at the amount of dirt and paint lose. My next step is to do an initial clean, then melamine. Is it OK to use simple green on a rag to do the initial cleaning? My shoes are cleaner than this.

Simple Green is water based, so it will plank that playfield.

Use Naphtha for sure.

#4639 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Any suggestions as to how I can clean out all of the crud inside the teeth of my star inserts? I've been trying to floss things in and out of there, but it's not going very well.

Get a set of fine conical brushes for cleaning airguns at Harborfrieght $1.99

https://www.harborfreight.com/5-pc-airbrush-cleaning-brushes-68155.html

#4640 3 years ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

Vid is there a limit to how much insert cupping that can be fixed by filling with 2PAC? Most of my inserts on a 66 Crosstown are cupped a reasonable amount, but several are approximately 3/32 deep. Thanks for the help.

3/32" is a piece of cake for 2PAC.

#4641 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Simple Green is water based, so it will plank that playfield.
Use Naphtha for sure.

Vid I wish I had waited another hour before pressing on. I did use simple green on a paper towel to get the loose stuff off and then dried it with another towel. I hope I didn't mess up too bad. I followed with Mr. Clean and 91% alcohol, then some Novus 2. Take a look at the pictures and let me know what to do if any planking happens. Right now it doesn't seem any worse than before. Thanks again for the advice. Next time I'll wait for your answer.

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#4642 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just turn the bit by hand, you won't go too far.
Don't use that bit for anything other than playfields, because if it gets dull, it won't cut without chipping.

Vid,

Hoping you can provide some advice. I'm having such a difficult time doing this step. I bought brand new brad drill bits from Lee Valley.

I Started turning the bit by hand, like you suggested, but found that All I was doing was making a nice circle (drill bit wings) around the hole but not actually removing any clear. This is my first playfield and I'm a bit lost here. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!

#4643 3 years ago

vid, I'm working a TZ playfield for polishing up some of the factory mylar, and trying to work out the ball trails, and the general dullness on the playfield.

The meguiars swirl remover (M09) wasn't enough to even out the haze... nor was the #3 polish from a treasure cove kit. This is using a orange pad on a ROribtal.. and also tried on a yellow pad on a drill.

I'm debating on how course to go.. and if I want to stick with a compound with more aggressive cut.. or switch to wet sanding. I'm a bit leary of the wet sanding because this is the factory finish, and my door inserts are at the point you can already see the outlines of the insert and if you try.. catch them. I'm worried the sanding could take more off the inserts and make that problem exaggerated.. vs the compound on a pad.

I have some meguiars heavy and medium cut compound on the way.. (M01 and M04).

Any advise on the heavier compounds vs jumping right to wet sanding. Suggested start point? Will 1000 work out haze or a ball wear pattern? Or do I need to start a lot courser.

#4644 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Get a set of fine conical brushes for cleaning airguns at Harborfrieght $1.99
https://www.harborfreight.com/5-pc-airbrush-cleaning-brushes-68155.html

Working beautifully...thank you!

#4645 3 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Vid,
Hoping you can provide some advice. I'm having such a difficult time doing this step. I bought brand new brad drill bits from Lee Valley.
I Started turning the bit by hand, like you suggested, but found that All I was doing was making a nice circle (drill bit wings) around the hole but not actually removing any clear. This is my first playfield and I'm a bit lost here. Any help is much appreciated. Thanks!

All you need is the circle.

The cracking finish from the screw, won't be able to telegraph past the point where you cut through the clear.

So it sounds like you are doing it right.

#4646 3 years ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

I did use simple green on a paper towel to get the loose stuff off and then dried it with another towel. I hope I didn't mess up too bad. I followed with Mr. Clean and 91% alcohol, then some Novus 2. Take a look at the pictures and let me know what to do if any planking happens. Right now it doesn't seem any worse than before. Thanks again for the advice. Next time I'll wait for your answer.

Simple Green contains water, Mr Clean contains water, 91% alcohol is 9% water.

Be super careful!

"Water water everywhere, and not a drop....."

#4647 3 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

vid, I'm working a TZ playfield for polishing up some of the factory mylar, and trying to work out the ball trails, and the general dullness on the playfield.
The meguiars swirl remover (M09) wasn't enough to even out the haze... nor was the #3 polish from a treasure cove kit. This is using a orange pad on a ROribtal.. and also tried on a yellow pad on a drill.
I'm debating on how course to go.. and if I want to stick with a compound with more aggressive cut.. or switch to wet sanding. I'm a bit leary of the wet sanding because this is the factory finish, and my door inserts are at the point you can already see the outlines of the insert and if you try.. catch them. I'm worried the sanding could take more off the inserts and make that problem exaggerated.. vs the compound on a pad.
I have some meguiars heavy and medium cut compound on the way.. (M01 and M04).
Any advise on the heavier compounds vs jumping right to wet sanding. Suggested start point? Will 1000 work out haze or a ball wear pattern? Or do I need to start a lot courser.

What is your end goal?

Clean game?

Restore and clearcoat game?

#4648 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

All you need is the circle.
The cracking finish from the screw, won't be able to telegraph past the point where you cut through the clear.
So it sounds like you are doing it right.

Feel much better now! Thanks!

#4649 3 years ago

Can anyone advise what I should do with the bare wood areas on this Central Park playfiled? The dark areas (see pics) have started to raise slightly where I think it may have been damp at one stage. I intend to refurbish the playfield but didn't know what the best course of action was for prepping this area first?

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#4650 3 years ago
Quoted from tomds:

Can anyone advise what I should do with the bare wood areas on this Central Park playfiled? The dark areas (see pics) have started to raise slightly where I think it may have been damp at one stage. I intend to refurbish the playfield but didn't know what the best course of action was for prepping this area first?

Scan the playfield, so you have a backup, in case something goes terribly wrong.

Do any natural wood sanding (like the shooter lane) required, then lock down any flaky paint with a thin layer of 2PAC.

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