(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



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#4501 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Next time, make sure the 2nd coat is super thin, so it's **heat** does not upset the 1st layer.

Yeah. And instead of doing 2 coats with 1 can, will probably do 3-4 lighter coats. I'll only do heavier coats in the final shot (3rd and last can)

#4502 2 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

It happened rather quickly I would say, by the time I went for my second coat (12-15 min flash time) it was there.
Is it possible that clear sipped underneath the paint and lifted/cracked it. Like if too thick of paint absorbed some clear and wrinkled?
Like if the clear melted the paint and then shrunk it. I don't know really.
Just trying real hard to avoid that again.

Was there any acrylic lacquer used in between coats? Acrylic lacquer can adversely affect white in exactly this way (only some brands - createx being one of them) as well as any mixes tinted with white.

#4503 2 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Was there any acrylic lacquer used in between coats? Acrylic lacquer can adversely affect white

Yes there was. I sealed my touch-ups using it in-between coats.

I was suggested to use it.

#4504 2 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

Yes there was. I sealed my touch-ups using it in-between coats.
I was suggested to use it.

Dollars to donuts that's your issue. You'll probably need to sand down the wrinkled white, seal it with 2pac, repaint the white and clear again.

#4505 2 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Dollars to donuts that's your issue. You'll probably need to sand down the wrinkled white, seal it with 2pac, repaint the white and clear again.

That is exactly what I'm doing now. Except I'm redoing light gray and probably blue/green/orange near the top of the chest as well...

Lessons learned. The hard way. Practice makes perfect... and feed-up.

#4506 2 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

That is exactly what I'm doing now. Except I'm redoing light gray and probably blue/green/orange near the top of the chest as well...
Lessons learned. The hard way. Practice makes perfect... and feed-up.

Good move. Actually I should have said to sand down anything that had previously reacted - likely everything that had any white mixed into it.

#4507 2 years ago

As I'm redoing some of my touch-ups, I figured I should post a video of how I cut frisket mask with an xacto knife. I am no artist and a beginner really but I guess it shows with a little patience and steady hand anybody can do it.

Tips I may share:
-Hold the knife lightly, no need to press hard, be gentle.
-Use you other hand to steady your motion. Like I play guitar, I use my pinky to add some control to the movement and slide along the surface better.
-When doing rounds, I prefer to start with my wrist bent and unwind, not the inverse. Bend as much before getting unconformable, you can get a good stretch with the same stroke. Move your body as a whole.
-Change position to get best approach and best lighting. Do not get lazy standing in one place.

#4508 2 years ago

^^ nice video!

#4509 2 years ago

Hey all - perhaps a bit off-topic for the thread, but just thought I'd post an update about my work for lo those many months ago; I finally got my Rollergames playfield reassembled. I'm currently about 25 minutes' work away from either A) playing the bejeezus out of the game, finally, or B) discovering that my work has now entered the "figure out what the fuck is wrong with it" stage. In any case, we're looking good:

RollergamesReassembled (resized).png

#4510 2 years ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

Hey all - perhaps a bit off-topic for the thread, but just thought I'd post an update about my work for lo those many months ago; I finally got my Rollergames playfield reassembled. I'm currently about 25 minutes' work away from either A) playing the bejeezus out of the game, finally, or B) discovering that my work has now entered the "figure out what the fuck is wrong with it" stage. In any case, we're looking good:

That looks pretty nice! I just finished block sanding my first coat of clear on my My Street Fighter 2 playfield. I am at the point where I think it might look better when finished than it did when I started.IMG_5510 (resized).JPG

#4511 2 years ago

Is it normal for Frisket to leave some glue residue on the playfield after being cut and removed (and after painting?)?

I use the stuff the sell at Hobby Lobby, the first set was fine, but this second set will randomly leave glue residue on the playfield.

Is it possible for it to go bad?

I can clean it off with Naptha, but I don't like doing that right before spraying.

#4512 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

Is it normal for Frisket to leave some glue residue on the playfield after being cut and removed (and after painting?)?
I use the stuff the sell at Hobby Lobby, the first set was fine, but this second set will randomly leave glue residue on the playfield.
Is it possible for it to go bad?
I can clean it off with Naptha, but I don't like doing that right before spraying.

No, that is not the way it should work.
Do you know the brand? For how long has it been on the playfield before removed?

#4513 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

Is it normal for Frisket to leave some glue residue on the playfield after being cut and removed (and after painting?)?
I use the stuff the sell at Hobby Lobby, the first set was fine, but this second set will randomly leave glue residue on the playfield.
Is it possible for it to go bad?
I can clean it off with Naptha, but I don't like doing that right before spraying.

I've had this problem in the past. Are you heat setting your paint? I noticed if I heat set and then remove right away I get glue residue. But if I wait 5 minutes for everything to cool back down I don't have the problem.

#4514 2 years ago

I had this issue when I used high tack frisket and left it on for a few days. Nightmare to remove and lesson learned.

#4515 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

No, that is not the way it should work.
Do you know the brand? For how long has it been on the playfield before removed?

The brand is 'Grafix' it comes in 9x12 sheets (6 to a package ). My first package was a bit more matte (which i purchased from Hobby Lobby and did NOT leave any noticeable amounts of glue) while the new package I am working with I got from Amazon (its clear vs matte) and seems to be what I am having issues with:
amazon.com link »

I very gently heat-setting it before removing the frisket (not sure what sort of damage too much heat can do to both the acrylic paint ant the frisket)- probably not enough as my paint was in some places too thick and not quite cured. I think in the future I should wait until after frisket is removed before heat-setting?

I thought that too much heat was the problem the first time this came up. But I did some tests and even when removing the cut-out sections of freshly placed frisket (before spraying anything), I've had some glue residue sticking to the playfield.

#4516 2 years ago
Quoted from tdiddy:

I've had this problem in the past. Are you heat setting your paint? I noticed if I heat set and then remove right away I get glue residue. But if I wait 5 minutes for everything to cool back down I don't have the problem.

Hmm...that's a good idea. I will try test that out AND get some new frisket paper just in case this is from a 'bad batch' too!

#4517 2 years ago
Quoted from No_Skill:

I had this issue when I used high tack frisket and left it on for a few days. Nightmare to remove and lesson learned.

Yeah, I've been nervous about keeping the frisket on for too long. This problem has happened even before heat - setting and when being applied for only a few minutes for cutting. I think that the heat-setting, removal right after heat-setting, and then leaving the frisket on for 3 days (just once thought due to some work travel) all did their bit to contribute.

#4518 2 years ago

Okay another idiot question here. Createx paints. I'm hoping that Vid and some other experts here can provide some feedback on what I'm doing wrong.

A couple of issues going on that may be all related.

First, even when sanding the surfaces with a good 400 grit and removing all gloss, the Createx is not really adhering as well to the surface as I expected it. It's still fairly elastic and can be pulled up or scraped off in some areas fairly easy. For sharp areas like flame tips, some of the paint often comes off with the Frisket (even when I pull "against it" but with some angles there are no good directions to pull against, and I always remove at a low angle so as to not lift paint).

Is this normal?

Second, I am getting some pretty awful wrinkling with some areas (but not all). These areas were all cleaned in the same way and shot at the same time, yet when Spraymax 1k is applied with a thin coat, some places wrinkled, and others did not.

My theory is that the wrinkling may be caused by too much water still present in the Createx acrylic (not completely cured) and the reason for this is that in the areas where it did wrinkle I applied the Create too thick and did not effectively heat set it.

I'm in the process of stripping it all off right now, but before I start spraying again I want to have some confidence that this might be the issue so I don't have to repeat making the same dumb mistake!

You can see how bad it was in the blue, but also note the inner portion of the arrow (orange part) which was the first time I saw this. The yellow went on perfectly.

IMG_5453 (resized).JPG

IMG_5456 (resized).JPG

#4519 2 years ago

Just to clarify, only SOME areas of the blue wrinkled, other areas were fine. With the orange, 95% of it was fine except for one of those "inner arrows". If my memory is good, these were areas that I might have given more attention to with the air brush thus my theory of the too thick paint/not cured/heat set and therefore reacting.

Photos here are what I had going on (yellow, orange and blue) - now starting over!

IMG_5370 (resized).JPG
IMG_5451 (resized).JPG

#4520 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

Just to clarify, only SOME areas of the blue wrinkled, other areas were fine. With the orange, 95% of it was fine except for one of those "inner arrows". If my memory is good, these were areas that I might have given more attention to with the air brush thus my theory of the too thick paint/not cured/heat set and therefore reacting.
Photos here are what I had going on (yellow, orange and blue) - now starting over!

I can't give an answer for the paint not holding other than when I had that problem, I cleaned it off and did very very very light coats of paint. After I shot a coat and was happy with it, I would quickly flash dry it. I ran a hair dryer on high for a very short time waving it over the wet paint. I then shot another light coat and flashed dried it again. I noticed that it was colors such as white that seemed to cause the most issues.

Now for the wrinkles, I only had this happen once and it was because I used my Harbor Freight gun right out of the box. I cleaned up my gun and my wrinkles, broke down the gun and clean all the parts with the highest strength rubbing alcohol I could find. I then reassembled the gun, loaded it with more rubbing alcohol and shot out quite a bit of it. I emptied the gun of alcohol and loaded paint and shot again. No wrinkles.

I have also switched to Golden High Flow Arcylic Paints. I have had more luck with them.
Just my 2 cents.

#4521 2 years ago
Quoted from packie1:

I have also switched to Golden High Flow Arcylic Paints. I have had more luck with them.
Just my 2 cents.

Do you need to thin that paint to airbrush it? If so, what do you use and in what proportion?

#4522 2 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Do you need to thin that paint to airbrush it? If so, what do you use and in what proportion?

No need to thin that one for me. Shoots right off the airbrush.

#4523 2 years ago

I use Createx and an Iwata 5mm and even though I was suggested to shoot straight from the bottle (especially with 5mm at 40psi), I had more success thinning the paint to milk+ consistency with my special mix of water, 99% alcohol and flow improver.

#4524 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

Okay another idiot question here. Createx paints. I'm hoping that Vid and some other experts here can provide some feedback on what I'm doing wrong...... I am getting some pretty awful wrinkling with some areas (but not all). These areas were all cleaned in the same way and shot at the same time, yet when Spraymax 1k is applied .....

Sorry if I missed the part about using 1k clear not 2k clear.

I use 1k for general clear of cabinets etc it's fine. I have never used for playfields over createx paints. Do we know how hot it is?

#4525 2 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Do you need to thin that paint to airbrush it? If so, what do you use and in what proportion?

I normally do not thin it. Shoot straight from the hip. hehe. I notice other different comments on other paints, my suggestion is to always test your paints and your airbrush. I do this with each different paint i use. I now have a general idea of which paints to thin (if I feel I need to thin) and how much pressure and how the paint flows. Hate to say it but I also take the outside weather in effect when painting as well.

#4526 2 years ago
Quoted from SteveinTexas:

Sorry if I missed the part about using 1k clear not 2k clear.
I use 1k for general clear of cabinets etc it's fine. I have never used for playfields over createx paints. Do we know how hot it is?

I don't. I checked their website but couldn't find anything that helped me understand what it might react with. I assumed that it was less than the 2k, but not sure.

#4527 2 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

I use Createx and an Iwata 5mm and even though I was suggested to shoot straight from the bottle (especially with 5mm at 40psi), I had more success thinning the paint to milk+ consistency with my special mix of water, 99% alcohol and flow improver.

Would you be willing to share your secret formula? ? I shot white last night and it was the consistency of white glue! Ever tried the Createx reducer?

#4528 2 years ago
Quoted from packie1:

I can't give an answer for the paint not holding other than when I had that problem, I cleaned it off and did very very very light coats of paint. After I shot a coat and was happy with it, I would quickly flash dry it. I ran a hair dryer on high for a very short time waving it over the wet paint. I then shot another light coat and flashed dried it again. I noticed that it was colors such as white that seemed to cause the most issues.
Now for the wrinkles, I only had this happen once and it was because I used my Harbor Freight gun right out of the box. I cleaned up my gun and my wrinkles, broke down the gun and clean all the parts with the highest strength rubbing alcohol I could find. I then reassembled the gun, loaded it with more rubbing alcohol and shot out quite a bit of it. I emptied the gun of alcohol and loaded paint and shot again. No wrinkles.
I have also switched to Golden High Flow Arcylic Paints. I have had more luck with them.
Just my 2 cents.

Thank you. I actually sprayed white last night using this approach, which is what I should have done in the first place! The more I think about it, I do think I was rushing it and assumed that since the paint was dry to the touch it was cured.

#4529 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

Would you be willing to share your secret formula?

2/3 water (distilled), 1/3 Isopropyl alcohol (99%), a few drops of flow improver. That is for about a 100ml bottle

Some use some glycerin as well and some drying retarder. (few drops)

#4530 2 years ago

It's very odd to hear that people are spraying Createx straight. For me it is always to thick from the bottle, which leads to spitting from the brush, so I thin with clear glass cleaner and the flow is outstanding.

#4531 2 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

It's very odd to hear that people are spraying Createx straight. For me it is always to thick from the bottle, which leads to spitting from the brush, so I thin with clear glass cleaner and the flow is outstanding.

I always spray it straight (that's what it's made for).

If it's old, I thin it with ammonia

#4532 2 years ago

Ok, so I think that I might have screwed this one up. On my FP, I re-glued the extra ball insert after some pretty serious sanding. Unfortunately, I got interrupted by my nephew after gluing, and the thing sunk quite a bit after the epoxy dried. Here are some pictures of the results:

IMG_3791 (resized).JPGIMG_3793 (resized).JPGIMG_3792 (resized).JPG

Now, of course, it is glued in place. Is this too deep to paint the sides, fill with 2PAC, and later on place the key line decal and hope for the best? Or, can I do that and have it look decent? Do I need to chisel this thing and it's epoxy out and order a new insert?

#4533 2 years ago

hi guys!!
can you help me with this FT playfield

11112 (resized).jpg

index776 (resized).jpg

#4534 2 years ago
Quoted from quinntopia:

Okay another idiot question here. Createx paints. I'm hoping that Vid and some other experts here can provide some feedback on what I'm doing wrong.
A couple of issues going on that may be all related.
First, even when sanding the surfaces with a good 400 grit and removing all gloss, the Createx is not really adhering as well to the surface as I expected it. It's still fairly elastic and can be pulled up or scraped off in some areas fairly easy. For sharp areas like flame tips, some of the paint often comes off with the Frisket (even when I pull "against it" but with some angles there are no good directions to pull against, and I always remove at a low angle so as to not lift paint).
Is this normal?
Second, I am getting some pretty awful wrinkling with some areas (but not all). These areas were all cleaned in the same way and shot at the same time, yet when Spraymax 1k is applied with a thin coat, some places wrinkled, and others did not.
My theory is that the wrinkling may be caused by too much water still present in the Createx acrylic (not completely cured) and the reason for this is that in the areas where it did wrinkle I applied the Create too thick and did not effectively heat set it.
I'm in the process of stripping it all off right now, but before I start spraying again I want to have some confidence that this might be the issue so I don't have to repeat making the same dumb mistake!
You can see how bad it was in the blue, but also note the inner portion of the arrow (orange part) which was the first time I saw this. The yellow went on perfectly.

I am experiencing the exact same issue where the paint is just not adhering to the playfield. I am doing some touchups on a Demolition Man near the flippers and am using a mix of Createx paints. I lay each layer down, dry it with a hair dryer, then apply the next layer. When I have finished the painting and I am ready to remove the tape, I am noticing that the paint has formed a sticky film which basically sticks to the masking tape as I am pulling it away. It doesn't seem to like to stay attached to the playfield. As a result, the paint film tears and had jagged tear lines, which look ugly.

Did you manage to figure out what was causing your first issue?

Can anyone else recommend some surface prep or paint mixing steps to help with this?

#4535 2 years ago
Quoted from Metzu:

hi guys!!
can you help me with this FT playfield

??

I think you need to be a little more detailed on what you need help with? I maybe see some wear in the middle 4 big fish. I think they make a decal for that... More info?

#4536 2 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Is this too deep to paint the sides, fill with 2PAC, and later on place the key line decal and hope for the best? Or, can I do that and have it look decent? Do I need to chisel this thing and it's epoxy out and order a new insert?

Black out the wood, fill with 2PAC, it will be fine.

Do the keyline decal after filling and sanding flush.

Think how deep some of the cupped inserts are, and they are perfect once filled with 2PAC.

#4537 2 years ago

I've been scouring this thread and can't seem to locate any suggestions on how to handle the dithering effects?
Screen shot is from SBM... Would the consensus be to use the airbrush to provide the fade the dithering was attempting to replicate?

pasted_image (resized).png

#4538 2 years ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

I've been scouring this thread and can't seem to locate any suggestions on how to handle the dithering effects?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/29#post-2024747

#4539 2 years ago

Brilliant!
Sorry, I searched for dithering and not dots!
Once again, you are da man!

#4540 2 years ago

I just wanted to comment on the main topic of this thread: good vs. bad restorations. I was at Pintastic today, and I saw examples of both. One machine that I saw had one of those really awful repairs that Vid talks about: there was a crater worn in the center of the play field, and the "repair" consisted of someone using crude paint to fill in the artwork over the crater...without fixing the depression itself!

On the flip side, there was a beautifully restored Strikes and Spares. I was really impressed with the play field and shooter lane. Check out the pictures below:

IMG_3803 (resized).JPGIMG_3804 (resized).JPGIMG_3807 (resized).JPGIMG_3806 (resized).JPGIMG_3805 (resized).JPG

It also played really well. I'd have bought it if I had the money. Very well done. This was the first time I was at this type of show, and I could see Vid's words played out in front of me regarding good and bad repairs.

#4541 2 years ago
Quoted from arolden:

Did you manage to figure out what was causing your first issue?

No, I haven't. I have some theories:

1: Combining Wicked Colors with Createx may be a problem. I assumed that given their common producer that Wicked is just a different brand name for wilder colors. It turns out they seem to be designed for different applications. I won't mix them next time!

2. Add even more "tooth". I hit my surface with 400 grit, but probably not enough

3. Laid down too thick. This is the most likely suspect. More light coats. Heat set better in between each. I did some white this way and. It seems to have stuck much better than my orange, which was a Createx/Wicked combo and applied in one coat vs multiple thinner coats.

If the problem persists I may switch to another brand if I can't figure it out.

#4542 2 years ago

3 is likely the culprit. I have had the same problem. Being in a hurry and trying to get coverage with one thick coat. It creates all sorts of problems particularly with raised edges. Not only does the surface tension pulls more paint towards the frisket paint, but the air flow also pushes more paint towards the edge.

Createx would be out of business if they sold two lines of acrylic paint that are incompatible without extensive warnings.

400 grit is plenty for tooth. Createx paint is actually very sticky when the layer is thin. See how it's very hard to fully clean the airbrush cup.

#4543 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

3 is likely the culprit. I have had the same problem. Being in a hurry and trying to get coverage with one thick coat. It creates all sorts of problems particularly with raised edges. Not only does the surface tension pulls more paint towards the frisket paint, but the air flow also pushes more paint towards the edge.
Createx would be out of business if they sold two lines of acrylic paint that are incompatible without extensive warnings.
400 grit is plenty for tooth. Createx paint is actually very sticky when the layer is thin. See how it's very hard to fully clean the airbrush cup.

Thanks. Good to know. Trying to eliminate every possibility, but that can also drive me crazy!

#4544 2 years ago

After previously spending countless hours using flour and alcohol to rub away the glue residue from mylar removal, I tried this instead. On an old Medusa playfield, I just wet the mylar glue with alcohol and let it sit for about 3 minutes. Then I used a plastic razor blade to scrape away the wet, jellified glue. It came off completely in one pass and did not damage the artwork. I am hating myself for not trying this years ago! Previously the amount of alcohol, flour, and rubbing with my thumbs on large mylar areas was literally working my fingers to the bone.
Video demo..

Photo Jul 08, 7 55 10 PM (resized).jpg

#4545 2 years ago

Hey Vid, after clearcoat, do you shave a layer of clear before driving your pop bumpers nails through or because they are bolted from the underside it is not really necessary? As long as they sit flat?

#4546 2 years ago
Quoted from northvibe:

??
I think you need to be a little more detailed on what you need help with? I maybe see some wear in the middle 4 big fish. I think they make a decal for that... More info?

Yeah auto cast and the fish should i paint it over?

#4547 2 years ago

Hello Vid,

I'm about to start drilling out the clear out of the holes on my IJ restored playfield. I understand that most holes must be drilled about a 1/4" to get enough clear out for the screw, but what about the holes for the rails which are through and through? Do I drill all the way out the other end? How about cleaning the clear out of the lamp socket and sling shot holes? Thanks!

#4548 2 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

Hey Vid, after clearcoat, do you shave a layer of clear before driving your pop bumpers nails through or because they are bolted from the underside it is not really necessary? As long as they sit flat?

Pre drill your pop nail holes, because if you hit the head of those nails into the clearcoat, it might chip.

You can grind out the bevel with a Dremel and a fine stone, or HAND TWIST a sharp, new drill bit to cut through the bevel.

#4549 2 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

I'm about to start drilling out the clear out of the holes on my IJ restored playfield. I understand that most holes must be drilled about a 1/4" to get enough clear out for the screw, but what about the holes for the rails which are through and through?

Clamp the rails in place, then drill out the holes.

Put the screws in before you remove the clamps.

#4550 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Clamp the rails in place, then drill out the holes.
Put the screws in before you remove the clamps.

Great tip! How about for the staple shaped ball guides? My understanding is that those must be pounded in with a hammer. Do I drill those holes out? If so, all the way or about 1/4"? Thanks!

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