(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

6 years ago



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#4401 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Drip 2PAC into the holes and the clear will creep in.

With all those little blooms on each insert, it would be very tedious to drip clear into all of them. Do you think it would be faster/easier to sand past the bloom defects, then clear the entire playfield again?

#4402 2 years ago
Quoted from brenna98:

With all those little blooms on each insert, it would be very tedious to drip clear into all of them. Do you think it would be faster/easier to sand past the bloom defects, then clear the entire playfield again?

Depending on how cured the 2PAC is, it may be difficult to sand through, while not damaging the text.

If there was not 2PAC on it, then you could mask the text and scrape off the inserts; so the only blooming would be between the letters.

#4403 2 years ago

Hi Vid,

I was wondering if I could substitute Meguiar's medium cut compound with Novus 3 ?

I barely never use my Novus 3 bottle so before buying the recommended stuff I ask the expert

#4404 2 years ago

Here's a picture of a Chicago Coin Mini Baseball. The only problem is there are two posts smack dab in the middle of the playfield that don't belong. If I were to remove these posts, what would be the best way to fill and smooth the holes so they are ready for touchup?

Thanks,
-Doug

Baseball (resized).jpg

#4405 2 years ago
Quoted from manples:

Hi Vid,
I was wondering if I could substitute Meguiar's medium cut compound with Novus 3 ?
I barely never use my Novus 3 bottle so before buying the recommended stuff I ask the expert

Novus3 is more abrasive, so you would have to have a light touch - might be too risky for most people, lol

Keep your Novus3 for clear ramps and car headlights....

#4406 2 years ago
Quoted from halflip87:

Here's a picture of a Chicago Coin Mini Baseball. The only problem is there are two posts smack dab in the middle of the playfield that don't belong. If I were to remove these posts, what would be the best way to fill and smooth the holes so they are ready for touchup?
Thanks,
-Doug

That playfield looks so good, I'd not want to booger it up with a restoration.

I'd fill the holes carefully with Bondo auto filler - it feathers out wonderfully.

#4407 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Keep your Novus3 for clear ramps and car headlights....

Yellow car headlights love 400 grit wet sanding and 2 PAC. I cleared them at the same time as a playfield on Sunday and the results were great.

#4408 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

Yellow car headlights love 400 grit wet sanding and 2 PAC. I cleared them at the same time as a playfield on Sunday and the results were great.

I hit mine with Novus3, until they are evenly frosted.

Then I use Novus2, and they come out crystal clear.

Mask around the lamps, because you don't want to slip and scratch the paint with the Novus3 on the buffer, lol.

#4409 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I hit mine with Novus3, until they are evenly frosted.
Then I use Novus2, and they come out crystal clear.
Mask around the lamps, because you don't want to slip and scratch the paint with the Novus3 on the buffer, lol.

No 2PAC??? They'll likely get yellow again unless they are protected.

#4410 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

No 2PAC??? They'll likely get yellow again unless they are protected.

I've not had yellowing on any Ford headlights. Only on BMW.

#4411 2 years ago

After sanding bottom left. Before sanding bottom right. After 1 coat of 2PAC top. 10 minutes total time.

IMG_4091 (resized).JPG
IMG_4061 (resized).JPG

#4412 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

After sanding bottom left. Before sanding bottom right. After 1 coat of 2PAC top. 10 minutes total time.

Looks great!

#4413 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Novus3 is more abrasive, so you would have to have a light touch

Thanks Vid. So after letting the clear cure for several days I used an orbital sander and did:
400 (dry) as I had some fisheye + drops from the 2k spray can,
then wet sanded 800, 1200, 1500, 2000.

It looked good, I was lazy, I didn't have the Medium cut so... I went for the swirl remover straight. And guess what, thousands of swirls are still here:

IMG_4947 (resized).JPG

I'm just wondering if the medium cut will be enough to get rid of them or if I should start the wet sanding over ? Those swirls seem to be really fine but deep.

Note that I have 4 pretty thick layers of clear.

#4414 2 years ago
Quoted from manples:

Thanks Vid. So after letting the clear cure for several days I used an orbital sander and did:
400 (dry) as I had some fisheye + drops from the 2k spray can,
then wet sanded 800, 1200, 1500, 2000.
It looked good, I was lazy, I didn't have the Medium cut so... I went for the swirl remover straight. And guess what, thousands of swirls are still here:

I'm just wondering if the medium cut will be enough to get rid of them or if I should start the wet sanding over ? Those swirls seem to be really fine but deep.
Note that I have 4 pretty thick layers of clear.

There still looks like some deep pitting is in there.

Try wet sanding again with 2000 and see if all those scratches come out.

If they don't, then go back to 1500, then 2000.

Each sanding stage needs to remove ALL of the previous stages scratches. If any are left, they will still be there in the following stages.

#4415 2 years ago

Ok thanks master, will post the results soon

#4416 2 years ago

Thanks for this thread and all your help vid! I just cleared my beloved pinbot. I'm waiting a few days to let it cure before I start sanding. Great info!

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#4417 2 years ago

What level of gloss is appropriate for a system 80 game? Can I move to a buff with Novus 2 after 1500 grit wet sanding, or do I need to go all the way to 2000 first?

I wet sanded with 1000 last night and am looking forward to finishing this process tonight.

#4418 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

What level of gloss is appropriate for a system 80 game? Can I move to a buff with Novus 2 after 1500 grit wet sanding, or do I need to go all the way to 2000 first?
I wet sanded with 1000 last night and am looking forward to finishing this process tonight.

I'd take the extra 5 minutes and do the 2000.

Remember, once the playfield is clearcoated, you can go forward or backwards with the amount of gloss.

If you think a game is too glossy years from now, just buff it with a medium polish, and it will knock it down.

#4419 2 years ago

I have an X Files I am restoring which has Playfield wear by magnet. I am considering using Bondo to fill/repair. Any thoughts?
I was going to use Bondo Rotten wood prep 1st. This product stiffens loose wood to create a solid foundation for Bondo filler.
Should I remove more wood in repair area to make a deeper void? Or leave it as is and begin repair?
I plan on air brushing after repair, but need to learn how to air brush 1st. What primer should I use prior to air brushing and is there a primer that can go through the air brush to avoid brush strokes? Anyone have a decal scan of this area?

20170519_175945 (resized).jpg

#4420 2 years ago

Ugh, I think there's one spot that was sitting higher than the others and was sanded back down to the paint. Just noticed it after doing all the 1000 grit sanding.

Is this still rough enough to shoot another coat of clear or do I have to go back to 600? Was so close

#4421 2 years ago
Quoted from dawasa:

I have an X Files I am restoring which has Playfield wear by magnet. I am considering using Bondo to fill/repair. Any thoughts?

After you repair and clearcoat, make sure you Mylar that area!

Quoted from dawasa:

Should I remove more wood in repair area to make a deeper void? Or leave it as is and begin repair?

I'd chip out any loose wood and old repair, then fill the void with Fiberglass Resin. FR is harder than Bondo.

Make sure the playfield is level when you pour the Resin in, because it's super hard to sand once it's fully hardened. Scraping with razor when its 3/4 cured is a good practice.

Tape off the surrounding area.

Quoted from dawasa:

I plan on air brushing after repair, but need to learn how to air brush 1st. What primer should I use prior to air brushing and is there a primer that can go through the air brush to avoid brush strokes?

Auto primer is fine.

As long as your airbrush has a 1.8 to 2.5mm nozzle, primer will flow through it.

Practice your airbrushing on some cardboard. Practice your masking too.

#4422 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

Ugh, I think there's one spot that was sitting higher than the others and was sanded back down to the paint. Just noticed it after doing all the 1000 grit sanding.
Is this still rough enough to shoot another coat of clear or do I have to go back to 600? Was so close

Most clears will stick to an extra layer for a few days to a week (depending on brand, temp and hardener ).

If it's been more than that, you best at least go back to 800.

#4423 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

After you repair and clearcoat, make sure you Mylar that area!

I'd chip out any loose wood and old repair, then fill the void with Fiberglass Resin. FR is harder than Bondo.
Make sure the playfield is level when you pour the Resin in, because it's super hard to sand once it's fully hardened. Scraping with razor when its 3/4 cured is a good practice.
Tape off the surrounding area.

Is this Bondo FR ok to use? I've never used FR. How would I be pouring it in? Will a razor blade scraping get FR flush with playfield? Also would I be removing Tape before scraping to know that it is perfectly level as Playfield? Thanks

Screenshot_20170602-215425 (resized).png

#4424 2 years ago

I have never used FR before. How would I be pouring it? Will a razor blade scraping get FR flush with playfield? Also would I be removing Tape before scraping to know the FR is flush with the playfield?

Is that Bondo FR ok to use?

#4425 2 years ago

Okay Vid, painted all the white, lettering, numbers, and red lasers. I now need to put a layer of clear down so that then I can do all the inserts as well as touch up the black paint.

playfield (resized).jpg

Question 1: how light of a coat of clear do I spray? I ask because my first effort before painting was way too heavy, and I don't want to repeat that. I've also read people doing a quick spray, letting it sit for 15, and then doing a more measured spray. Truth be told, I don't know what too quick or measured even is based on my first go around! Still, I wanna hear what I should at least strive for with this next layer.

Question 2: That area above the planet in between the lasers...I'm not going to attempt any planet repainting, but I do want to at least make the area above it somewhat more pleasing to the eye. My thought is to just fill the area with black but leaving the shape of the planet. I'll also touch up the black at the top of the shooter lane. Obviously this will cover the random star field since those seem a bit impossible to mask. I did not repaint any of the stars white. Just curious what your approach would be if not going for a total restoration, just trying to eliminate the eye sores while embracing some of the wear.

For the record, I won't be using decals for the inserts, but rather doing it by laser cut stencils. No access to laser printer but yes to laser CNC, go figure!

#4426 2 years ago
Quoted from dawasa:

I have never used FR before. How would I be pouring it? Will a razor blade scraping get FR flush with playfield? Also would I be removing Tape before scraping to know the FR is flush with the playfield?
Is that Bondo FR ok to use?

You mix it up in a glass cup (like a kitchen measuring cup), and pour.

It's a little thinner than honey.

Cure time can be fast if it's warm in the shop - you might want to practice on a hole in some plywood.

Scrape with tape on to protect paint. Any depressions will fill in with 2PAC.

#4427 2 years ago
Quoted from shutyertrap:

Question 1: how light of a coat of clear do I spray? I ask because my first effort before painting was way too heavy, and I don't want to repeat that. I've also read people doing a quick spray, letting it sit for 15, and then doing a more measured spray. Truth be told, I don't know what too quick or measured even is based on my first go around! Still, I wanna hear what I should at least strive for with this next layer.

Make it as thin as you can, and still have an 100% complete coat.

You are locking in layers, not going crazy.

Quoted from shutyertrap:

Question 2: That area above the planet in between the lasers...I'm not going to attempt any planet repainting, but I do want to at least make the area above it somewhat more pleasing to the eye. My thought is to just fill the area with black but leaving the shape of the planet. I'll also touch up the black at the top of the shooter lane. Obviously this will cover the random star field since those seem a bit impossible to mask. I did not repaint any of the stars white. Just curious what your approach would be if not going for a total restoration, just trying to eliminate the eye sores while embracing some of the wear.

Paint the black solid black, then just add some random stars by hand.

I'd scan the planet, then print some of that random hash on a color laser printer and apply to repair the wear. Because the pattern is so random, it's an easy fix.

#4428 2 years ago

After you have the waterslide decals set, is it safe to wipe over them with Naphtha?

#4429 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Make it as thin as you can, and still have an 100% complete coat.
You are locking in layers, not going crazy.

Can you do a very light coat with an airbrush and only on the areas that have been airbrushed painted?

Same question with decals. Can an airbrush be used for the light first coat to avoid melting the waterslide decals, then 10 minutes after do the wet coat?

#4430 2 years ago
Quoted from No_Skill:

After you have the waterslide decals set, is it safe to wipe over them with Naphtha?

Waterslides are very delicate, so try not to wipe over them if you can avoid it.

#4431 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

Can you do a very light coat with an airbrush and only on the areas that have been airbrushed painted?
Same question with decals. Can an airbrush be used for the light first coat to avoid melting the waterslide decals, then 10 minutes after do the wet coat?

Most 2PACs allow extra coats without sanding from a few hours to a full day.

#4432 2 years ago
Quoted from shutyertrap:

white, lettering,

What color white did you use and how did you do the lettering?

Thanks. Looking good. Agree with Vid, use a planet scan to fill in the damaged area. Random helps.

Firepower forever!

#4433 2 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

What color white did you use and how did you do the lettering?
Thanks. Looking good. Agree with Vid, use a planet scan to fill in the damaged area. Random helps.
Firepower forever!

I used the Creatix opaque white. For the lettering I did exactly what I did for all other areas painted...covered in frisket and then cut out with X-acto knife. Turns out you can do extremely narrow cuts like the pinstripes or lettering without worrying about the frisket lifting or bunching. I tried using a straight edge to guide my cuts on the initial batch of lettering I did and found it was better to free hand them. Reason being is with each edge I had to lift the blade, then do the next, and so on. Well making to cuts meet without it getting sloppy is extremely difficult! On top of that, the font has a lot of curved corners, not crisp. So eventually I just made one continuous cut, never lifting the blade, rotating my body or switching to my left hand to have a good cutting angle. The end result is no, the letters aren't perfect, but from a players standing position at the flippers, they'll never notice. It wasn't that precise a job Williams did on them either! I actually improved a lot of the pinstripes as some would taper off into the black for a 1/4 inch as if the silk screening didn't take. I compared to another person's Firepower and same thing happened with theirs, only in different spots so I knew it wasn't a design thing. Point being with all of this is, I'm not doing a perfect restore, I'm just trying to make a smooth, fast playing surface that is clear coated while also taking care of some of the more glaring wear issues or fading. I'm still undecided if I'll attempt anything with the planet, and I'll leave that for the last thing to be done.

Also want to point out that because of the psi you have to shoot Creatix out at, mask large areas. My buddy's airbrush station I was using, the paint he uses for his projects only requires 15 psi so you can really finesse and not worry about over spray. The Creatix needs to be shot at 45-50 psi we discovered, mainly it seems so any clog that starts happening in the tip just gets rocketed out of it. At first my friend was looking up info on airbrush forums, and they were all saying to dilute it 10, saying Creatix is really meant for t-shirts. I had him read Vid's specific post about the paint, and he had to alter his frame of mind for how to set up for this purpose. I couldn't answer why this was the paint of choice, only that everyone here seems to like it and it doesn't pose any issues with 2pac. Just saying, not having used an airbrush before myself, I went to someone who uses them all the time, and it caused us about an hour of trial and error as he had to unlearn his normal ways of setup.

#4434 2 years ago

I had been using standard Createx and wasn't so happy with the clogging and need to dilute. I have next to zero airbrushing experience so there must have been a few things I was not doing right. I tried the Golden high flow acrylics (https://www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo_highflow) and their shoot straight out of the airbrush with absolutely no problem.

IMG_4109 (resized).JPG

IMG_4110 (resized).JPG

#4435 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

I had been using standard Createx and wasn't so happy with the clogging and need to dilute. I have next to zero airbrushing experience so there must have been a few things I was not doing right. I tried the Golden high flow acrylics (https://www.goldenpaints.com/technicalinfo_highflow) and their shoot straight out of the airbrush with absolutely no problem.

Createx flows extremely well when mixed with Windex

#4436 2 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Createx flows extremely well when mixed with Windex

It usually shoots straight from the bottle.

But if it's old and thick, you can thin it with ammonia (blue Windex might taint light colors).

#4437 2 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Createx flows extremely well when mixed with Windex

Thanks, I'll try that. I have a bunch of Createx paint that I'd love to be able to use.

#4438 2 years ago

One problem I have with is lighting sanding / feathering the edges of the airbrushed areas. With a 1000 grit the paint comes out into tiny rolls, like the kind you get with an eraser. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

#4439 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

One problem I have with is lighting sanding / feathering the edges of the airbrushed areas. With a 1000 grit the paint comes out into tiny rolls, like the kind you get with an eraser. Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

It's not cured yet.

It could take longer to cure if it's thick.

#4440 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's not cured yet.

Can't you use a hair drier to help speed the curing along?

#4441 2 years ago
Quoted from Walamab:

Can't you use a hair drier to help speed the curing along?

Sure, or an IR lamp works even better.

#4442 2 years ago

I bought a really nice AC/DC prem over the weekend that has some flaking in the shooter-lane. I know a couple of a couple of other machines that have had this issue, please see below.

Wondering what is the best way to deal with this, since this is really quite a small job. From what Ive picked up from a few threads Im thinking
1) remove the left cliffy, apron, etc
2) sand the area down
3) use frisket to keep the edges sharp
4) paint it
5) clear coat it

Not sure what to paint it with? Ive used a Sharpie oil based pen for touch ups on the inside side panels with good results. And for the clear coat Im thinking something like Dupli-color Perfect Match protective clear coat. Although its a spray, I want to avoid spraying since the machine is in my unvented basement games room. Im thinking of spraying in a cup and dabbing it on with a cotton swab, but not sure how it will interact with the oil paint, I would try it in a small area under the apron.

But, if there's a better way to do it, please advise?

IMG_3369 (resized).JPG

#4443 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It usually shoots straight from the bottle.
But if it's old and thick, you can thin it with ammonia (blue Windex might taint light colors).

I tried the Windex addition yesterday and it worked like a charm!

#4444 2 years ago

Wish stern would stop painting shooter lanes

#4445 2 years ago

I bought a mix of Createx Airbrush paints -- it includes both Opaque and Transparent colors... I'm assuming I should principally use the Opaque colors as base, and then potentially I can use a dab of a Transparent color for mixing?

IMG_1899 (resized).JPG

#4446 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Make it as thin as you can, and still have an 100% complete coat.
You are locking in layers, not going crazy.

Okay, I went 'lite' with my spraying. Gave it a quick pass, waited 10 minutes, gave it another pass. Even after the first pass, it looked like I was getting orange peel. Doing the second pass was just to ensure coverage without going heavy.

OJpeel (resized).jpg

Since this was just to lock in my paint before doing my next layer, do I need to be concerned about the orange peel? I obviously need to sand again with 600 grit before doing the next layer of paint, but am I looking to get the OJ completely gone? Or will it go away once I do my final session of clear coating? Also, how soon after doing a locking coat before I can start the next bit of masking and painting?

Thanks as always for the advice! Here's the whole playfield after this coat of clear:

lightclear (resized).jpg

#4447 2 years ago
Quoted from Animal:

I bought a really nice AC/DC prem over the weekend that has some flaking in the shooter-lane. I know a couple of a couple of other machines that have had this issue, please see below.

I'd just frisket, do a line of black and then lay a Mylar under the Cliffy and over the shooter lane.

This will save the lane too

#4448 2 years ago
Quoted from KingDaddy:

I bought a mix of Createx Airbrush paints -- it includes both Opaque and Transparent colors... I'm assuming I should principally use the Opaque colors as base, and then potentially I can use a dab of a Transparent color for mixing?

Yeah.

You can also put a layer of white down, then spray transparent over it.

#4449 2 years ago
Quoted from shutyertrap:

Since this was just to lock in my paint before doing my next layer, do I need to be concerned about the orange peel?

Nope, don't worry about it.

Sand for tooth, and start painting your playfield.

#4450 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Nope, don't worry about it.
Sand for tooth, and start painting your playfield.

Is adhesion ok in the valleys of the orange peel which will not be sanded?

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