(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

6 years ago



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#4351 2 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Entire playfield for a couple pins, and high wear on others (depending on the state of where I stand with teardowns of different machines)
I have several projects to do.

You peel the backing as you go, when you do the entire playfield.

Push air bubbles into slots and holes.

Make SURE you wax the playfield before you install the Mylar!

#4352 2 years ago
Quoted from McSquid:

Should I scrap/sand this off before clearing? Or just do my first coat, sand, then decal over them?

Scrape off the paint, sand, spray light coat of clear, install waterslide decals, clear over the top of them.

#4353 2 years ago

Some orange peeling, and some very minor bubbles but nothing that won't come out with tomorrow's sanding. Hard for me to believe its the same one in the older photos above.

2017-05-17 20.13.12 (resized).jpg
2017-05-17 20.03.02 (resized).jpg

#4354 2 years ago

This thread is great, and since I have perfect weather for painting today I wanted to put down the initial light coat of clear that's recommended before touch-up work starts.

I've cleaned the whole surface with ME+alcohol, leveled my inserts, and will wipe down everything really good with naphtha before spraying.

Did the ME abrade everything enough, or should I do some very light sanding before the initial lock-down clearcoat?

#4355 2 years ago

I sanded with 600 grit before I did my first layer of clear. Be careful because you can go through the art if you aren't paying attention.

#4356 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

Did the ME abrade everything enough, or should I do some very light sanding before the initial lock-down clearcoat?

I usually do some sanding to make sure everything is deglossed and toothed-up, as long as the playfield is stable enough to withstand some sanding......

#4357 2 years ago

For those who have wondered about spot-clearing. I attempted this with a Kings of Steel. It is a decent player's game but the arch was absolutely roached
IMG_20170407_215956886_HDR (resized).jpg

I scanned this area, then painted the bare wood black. The file I cleaned in photoshop, and printed with my Alps on a waterslide decal.
IMG_20170409_160100149 (resized).jpg
IMG_20170409_225000576 (resized).jpg
IMG_20170414_080404878 (resized).jpg
IMG_20170414_123616445_HDR (resized).jpg
IMG_20170419_193557759 (resized).jpg

The end result I would say is... OK. Maybe 90% improved.
Masking the clear did leave an edge. Also I was afraid to buff this out, in that I would risk burning through the silk-screen in the masked areas.

It's better, but I don't know that I would do it again.

#4358 2 years ago
Quoted from songofsixpence:

For those who have wondered about spot-clearing. I attempted this with a Kings of Steel. It is a decent player's game but the arch was absolutely roached

Looks much better.

Did you try to feather the existing black paint, or was it too flaky?

#4359 2 years ago

I didn't try to feather it. In retrospect, that would have been worth a try. The old paint wasn't too flaky.

I used a cheap, HF airbrush to spray the clear. I felt that actually did work pretty well for small, thin, spot-layers. That method I do want to try again for my next, full playfield restore.

#4360 2 years ago

I gave it a quick sand with 600 grit, wiped it down with a tack cloth, then again with naphtha on a microfiber cloth. The clear coat didn't turn out as smooth as I'd want a finish coat to be (pretty orange peely), but I think that's because I was trying to keep it as light as possible and didn't spray enough for it to even out.

20170520_192919 (resized).jpg

I didn't want to take everything off the play field, so I did a lot of masking instead. I found that 3/8" PVC tubing is a perfect fit for most of the bulb and contact switch holes, so I just cut lengths of that and taped the top shut.

Now that the initial coat is on, do I need to sand a little before doing touch up work? If so, should I sand everything, or just the areas that will be painted? I'm assuming everything will need a quick 600 grit sand again before the final 2-3 clears go on.

#4361 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

I didn't want to take everything off the play field, so I did a lot of masking instead. .

Would have been faster/better to remove all that stuff than masking it. You could have re-shot the wood side rails while you had them off. Made a huge difference on my Old Chicago.

#4362 2 years ago

Try depopulating more of that playfield or else your painting and sanding will truly be a "FML" experience. Slingshots /switches are easy to tuck behind the playfield. Bulbs can be removed and the holders filled with balls of painters tape. Pins and some wire guides can be carefully removed by pulling directly away from playfield with needle nosed pliers...

#4363 2 years ago

Depending on how the sanding goes, I may end up doing some of that. Unfortunately the wire guides on this field are just about impossible to remove without breaking the paint around where they go into the wood, and they are by far the most annoying things to work around. most of the lights/slings/switches are hidden by plastics, so I'm not super concerned.

#4364 2 years ago

I should also add that if this were a personal project, I probably would strip it down to a bare field. This one is a friend's that they want to give to their husband for a birthday present in about a month, and my original task was just to make it function again. This bit of restoration is a bonus, and while it's never going to be a showpiece, it already looks heaps better than it did.

#4365 2 years ago
Quoted from songofsixpence:

For those who have wondered about spot-clearing. I attempted this with a Kings of Steel. It is a decent player's game but the arch was absolutely roached

I scanned this area, then painted the bare wood black. The file I cleaned in photoshop, and printed with my Alps on a waterslide decal.

The end result I would say is... OK. Maybe 90% improved.
Masking the clear did leave an edge. Also I was afraid to buff this out, in that I would risk burning through the silk-screen in the masked areas.
It's better, but I don't know that I would do it again.

What's Alps?

#4366 2 years ago

A type/brand of printer that can print white.

#4367 2 years ago

My ALPS printer. In this photo, if you look closely, you can see the white print
20160505_173045 (resized).jpg

In progress..
20160505_173659 (resized).jpg

end result
IMG_20170324_210815241 (resized).jpg

the process needs some tweaking, but I'm getting better at it

#4368 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

I found that 3/8" PVC tubing is a perfect fit for most of the bulb and contact switch holes,

Just leave old bulbs in the sockets.

Keeps the clear out of the sockets, and the glass is too slippery to adhere the bulbs to the playfield.

Quoted from Hillridge:

Unfortunately the wire guides on this field are just about impossible to remove without breaking the paint around where they go into the wood,

If the wire guides have barbs on them, tap the guides so the barbs protrude out the back of the playfield. 2 seconds with a Dremel will remove the barb tabs, and now the guides can be safely extracted as normal.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/20#post-1788273

#4369 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just leave old bulbs in the sockets.
Keeps the clear out of the sockets, and the glass is too slippery to adhere the bulbs to the playfield.

If the wire guides have barbs on them, tap the guides so the barbs protrude out the back of the playfield. 2 seconds with a Dremel will remove the barb tabs, and now the guides can be safely extracted as normal.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/20#post-1788273

These are the ones with barbs. I did a test pull just to see if I could easily remove them, and it blew a 1/4" chunk of wood out of the top, so that's not happening for the rest of them. If I tap them out the back and remove the barbs, how do I reset them to the proper height after I'm done painting?

Speaking of which, I have a lot of "chips" where the play surface planked and pieces of paint flaked off. Will clear fill these after repainting, or is there a good way to get it all even again?

#4370 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

If I tap them out the back and remove the barbs, how do I reset them to the proper height after I'm done painting?

The proper height is usually the center of the ball (.53")

1. put drop of white glue in hole.

2 tap guide into the playfield using an old ball as a depth guide

3. wipe off any excess glue

4. allow to dry.

#4371 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

Speaking of which, I have a lot of "chips" where the play surface planked and pieces of paint flaked off. Will clear fill these after repainting, or is there a good way to get it all even again?

You can drip clear into holes and chips to fill them in.

#4372 2 years ago

Thanks. I did a quick test on a couple rails this morning, and that works pretty well. I think the time it will take me to pop them through, grind off the barbs, and remove them is going to be much less than carefully sanding around all of them.

I laser cut a rectangle of thick acrylic with a notch in it to pound them down, and think I'll laser another one as a depth setting template for putting them back.

While I have them out, what's the best way to polish them up?

#4373 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

While I have them out, what's the best way to polish them up?

I throw them in the tumbler if I have the time, but you can put them on a buffing wheel with Green Compound (because they are stainless steel) and they come out like a mirror.

#4374 2 years ago

I took the communal advice and removed just about everything that protrudes. It took a few hours, but will likely save many times that in sanding and spraying. Thanks for the push!

Sorry most of my shots are blurry, this phone has issues.

20170523_132850 (resized).jpg

I have a lot of orange peel since I was way too conservative on my initial "lock down" coat and didn't get good flow. Do I need to sand that back to flat now, or can I sand it enough to de-gloss it, do my touch-up painting, shoot a proper coat of clear, and then sand it flat once I have less of a chance of breaking through the clear?

Is 400 grit too aggressive for this initial sand? I feel like 600 would take a long time.

#4375 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

I took the communal advice and removed just about everything that protrudes. It took a few hours, but will likely save many times that in sanding and spraying. Thanks for the push!

You will be so glad you did.

Take the ball trough hardware off too, believe me.

Quoted from Hillridge:

I have a lot of orange peel since I was way too conservative on my initial "lock down" coat and didn't get good flow. Do I need to sand that back to flat now, or can I sand it enough to de-gloss it, do my touch-up painting, shoot a proper coat of clear, and then sand it flat once I have less of a chance of breaking through the clear?
Is 400 grit too aggressive for this initial sand? I feel like 600 would take a long time.

At this stage, don't worry too much about your orange peel.

A quick knock back with 600 or 800 and you are ready to touch up.

#4376 2 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Kinda sorta in little chunks. Interestingly, just realized that the THICK red (way thicker than the white) in the shooter lane was not affected.

I had a similar situation last year with a createx purple; sent pix and an explanation to the Createx Tech engineers on the issue - and their reply was that the only way that would happen was that the sprayed purple hadn't set up long enough. They also recommended using their WICKED or AUTO AIR color line as a better alternative to the AIRBRUSH color line in my specific application.

#4377 2 years ago

Just be aware that the Wicked colors (at least the red I used) seem to be much more transparent than the standard opaque colors. In order to get good coverage, I had to put the mixture I made using Wicked red on much thicker than my other standard colors.

I think next time I'll lay a base of white down first to provide a more even starting point.

#4378 2 years ago

A couple/three questions about the clear. I'm using the Omni MC161 with the slow hardener (medium speed of the 3 options) because that's all the paint shop had. From what I gather it just takes a bit longer to set up. One thing the data sheet makes no reference to is humidity.

At what point is it too humid to paint (ambient air, I have a dryer on the compressed air line)?

Is lacquer thinner a good cleanup solvent for this clear? It seemed to work ok after my first attempt.

I shot the first coat with a 1.3mm nozzle on a gun with a pickup tube style reservoir. I didn't like this because it needed about twice the volume of clear to maintain a good feed while the gun was horizontal and a lot got wasted. I'm borrowing a DeVilbiss with a 1.5mm nozzle to do the rest of the coats. The data sheet says anything between 1.3 and 1.6mm is fine, so am I going to see much of a difference?

#4379 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

At what point is it too humid to paint (ambient air, I have a dryer on the compressed air line)?

I've shot it in Florida, so that's probably 2000000% humidity after it rains every day.

If humidity was a big deal, they would have some kind of notice.

Quoted from Hillridge:

Is lacquer thinner a good cleanup solvent for this clear? It seemed to work ok after my first attempt.

That's what I use too.

Quoted from Hillridge:

I shot the first coat with a 1.3mm nozzle on a gun with a pickup tube style reservoir. I didn't like this because it needed about twice the volume of clear to maintain a good feed while the gun was horizontal and a lot got wasted. I'm borrowing a DeVilbiss with a 1.5mm nozzle to do the rest of the coats. The data sheet says anything between 1.3 and 1.6mm is fine, so am I going to see much of a difference?

The whole idea of the OMNI line is that any idiot can shoot it (even me).

Either of those nozzles will be fine.

Other than my primer gun with it's 2mm nozzle, I don't worry about it.

#4380 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I've shot it in Florida, so that's probably 2000000% humidity after it rains every day.
If humidity was a big deal, they would have some kind of notice.

That's what I use too.

The whole idea of the OMNI line is that any idiot can shoot it (even me).
Either of those nozzles will be fine.
Other than my primer gun with it's 2mm nozzle, I don't worry about it.

Copy the Florida humidity comment. What about temp? 90* with 100% ok? I know below about 55-60* is just too cold for clear. (Florida panhandle myself).

#4381 2 years ago

I think you may want the slower hardener at that temp.

I'm hopefully (if I get the rest of the touchup done) shooting my clear tomorrow when the temps should be just under 70 and no more rain. I have the "slow" hardener that's designed more for 75-85°, so it will just take a bit longer at the lower temp.

This is a gottlieb machine with those stupid non-adhesive bumper mylars, and they really chewed up the field underneath them. I want to put down new ones after it's waxed, will these replacements work?

http://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=303

Alternately, is there a mylar sheet you recommend where I could just cut my own?

#4382 2 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Copy the Florida humidity comment. What about temp? 90* with 100% ok? I know below about 55-60* is just too cold for clear. (Florida panhandle myself).

Like hilridge says, use a slower hardener to give the clear time to lay out.

Quoted from Hillridge:

This is a gottlieb machine with those stupid non-adhesive bumper mylars

Worst idea ever.

Quoted from Hillridge:

Alternately, is there a mylar sheet you recommend where I could just cut my own?

http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT

#4383 2 years ago
Quoted from No_Skill:

Just be aware that the Wicked colors (at least the red I used) seem to be much more transparent than the standard opaque colors. In order to get good coverage, I had to put the mixture I made using Wicked red on much thicker than my other standard colors.
I think next time I'll lay a base of white down first to provide a more even starting point.

Createx has a sealer line for their AutoAir semi-opaques that they recommend you put down first. As far as I can tell, Wicked & AutoAir are the same paint.

#4384 2 years ago

Is there an easy way to repair the black line around scoops such as shown on this Junkyard. I don't have airbrush, have some mechanical skills and no artistic skills. I do not prefer a Cliffy. I would rather use the Mantis inside hole protector. Blue tape and some type of paint? Anyway to do a spot clear ( I have never seen you recommend this.) Will mylar wrap into the hole? (I would think it would wrinkle and look ugly. This is not my machine. (Mine has less wear-not into green area, no chipping and currently a Cliffy.) Thanks in advance and I really like your thread and all the help you give.

junkyard1 (resized).jpg

#4385 2 years ago
Quoted from LEE:

Hey Vid,
Here is the product Shopline catalog from PPG;
Clearcoat
JC660 Rapid Spot / Panel Clearcoat
Hardener
JH6670 Fast Topcoat Hardener 55-65°F (13-18°C)
JH6680 Medium Topcoat Hardener 75-85°F (24-29°C)
JH6690 Slow Topcoat Hardener 85°F+ (29°C+)

Quoting from waaaaay back in the thread (2 years). I did my first light coat with the medium hardener because the shop didn't have any fast in stock. Now they do, and I'll probably grab it because I need another can to match my volume of clearcoat anyway, and it gives me options.

So my question is, based on the data above, what do you use for 65-75° temps, because that's what I'll have? I'll probably stick with the medium since other than my mistake of not shooting enough, it turned out well, but with temps forecasted as just under 70 tomorrow, I'm worried it'll be too slow.

Probably overthinking the whole bit

#4386 2 years ago
Quoted from jecase:

Is there an easy way to repair the black line around scoops such as shown on this Junkyard. I don't have airbrush, have some mechanical skills and no artistic skills. I do not prefer a Cliffy. I would rather use the Mantis inside hole protector. Blue tape and some type of paint? Anyway to do a spot clear ( I have never seen you recommend this.) Will mylar wrap into the hole? (I would think it would wrinkle and look ugly. This is not my machine. (Mine has less wear-not into green area, no chipping and currently a Cliffy.) Thanks in advance and I really like your thread and all the help you give.

Paint pen from michaels and mylar over the repair to protect it from getting worse.

Or install a cliffy over it.

#4387 2 years ago
Quoted from Hillridge:

So my question is, based on the data above, what do you use for 65-75° temps,

Quoted from Hillridge:

temps forecasted as just under 70 tomorrow, I'm worried it'll be too slow.

Just follow the guide on the can for what hardener for what temps (I don't have a can here in front of me).

I've used slow hardener outside of it's suggested temp range and it still hardened just fine.

#4388 2 years ago
Quoted from jecase:

Is there an easy way to repair the black line around scoops such as shown on this Junkyard.

Mask it off with Frisket paint your black line. Frog Tape might do it, but it's not as clean of a line as Frisket.

Quoted from jecase:

Any way to do a spot clear?

It just chips off at the edges.

#4389 2 years ago

Thanks for all the help! Touchup and the first round of clear are done! I stuck with the slow hardener and just turned on the heat in the workshop to keep it around 70-75.

No playfield work done yet:20170502_103429 (resized).jpg

Today's stopping point:
20170527_201229 (resized).jpg

The last picture actually makes it look better than it does in person, but it still looks way nicer than it did.

#4390 2 years ago

So how the heck can you tell if an insert is sunken in or just cupped? Ive got a few spots im not sure on.

20170528_174502 (resized).jpg

20170528_174500 (resized).jpg

20170528_174451 (resized).jpg

#4391 2 years ago

Usually, unjeweled inserts cup.

Put a streightedge across it, and light it from behind the edge

#4392 2 years ago

Vid-
I've done a couple bride of pinbot playfields and they both have this spotting issue. None of this showed up until about a month after completed.
Any suggestions how to fix this?

IMG_2200 (resized).JPG

IMG_2202 (resized).JPG

IMG_2201 (resized).JPG

#4393 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

APPLYING INSERT DECALS:

6. Since you need to clear coat over the decals, sand the whole playfield down to 1000 grit so the next layer of clear has some "tooth" to adhere to. Since you can't sand the decals, you need to do this BEFORE you install them.

Do you place the decal on sanded (1000 grit) area, or do you sand around where the decal goes?

Does the sanded area look different under (through) the decal... i.e. dull sanded finish vs shiny polished finish.

#4394 2 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Do you place the decal on sanded (1000 grit) area, or do you sand around where the decal goes?
Does the sanded area look different under (through) the decal... i.e. dull sanded finish vs shiny polished finish.

You sand the whole thing. Everything will look shiny once the clear goes on top.

#4395 2 years ago

Vid, how do you scuff all the small the depressed areas that are still shiny in the picture below before spraying the next layer of clear? I tried fine steel wool and it does not seem to get to them. Thanks.

IMG_4086 (resized).JPG

IMG_4088 (resized).JPG

#4396 2 years ago

Doing a Team One playfield. Is there a trick to getting these tubes out (and back in later?).

20170529_222242 (resized).jpg

#4397 2 years ago
Quoted from brenna98:

Vid-
I've done a couple bride of pinbot playfields and they both have this spotting issue. None of this showed up until about a month after completed.

That's called insert blooming:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1739707

Try to use the fastest 2PAC hardener available.

Quoted from brenna98:

Any suggestions how to fix this?

Take the tip of a brand new Xacto blade and **spin** it over the bubbles, perforating them. Drip 2PAC into the holes and the clear will creep in. Do a few at the back of the playfield, so you can get a feel how it works.

#4398 2 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Do you place the decal on sanded (1000 grit) area, or do you sand around where the decal goes?
Does the sanded area look different under (through) the decal... i.e. dull sanded finish vs shiny polished finish.

Waterslide decals stick best to shiny surfaces, so I sand around them.

#4399 2 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

Vid, how do you scuff all the small the depressed areas that are still shiny in the picture below before spraying the next layer of clear? I tried fine steel wool and it does not seem to get to them. Thanks.

If you have tons of them over flat wood, you may need a little more block sanding.

For the random dents here and there, you can use a small wire brush.

38HT07_AS01 (resized).jpg

#4400 2 years ago
Quoted from brandsilence:

Doing a Team One playfield. Is there a trick to getting these tubes out (and back in later?).

Try a hair dryer and see if she loosens up.

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