Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996Quoted from KingDaddy:Okay, thanks! Final question: I will likely use a water based clear for spot protection -- is it best to spray? One coat? Matte finish? Can I simply use something in a canister like this:
https://www.google.com/search?q=water+based+clear+coat&client=safari&sa=X&hl=en-us&biw=1024&bih=704&tbs=vw:l,ss:44&tbm=shop&prmd=svin&srpd=2311862936541824608&prds=epd:11960666970860510952,cdl,cid:12900830372571017507&ved=0ahUKEwivq5qn4tXTAhXHbSYKHXnjDUMQgTYI3QQ
Great material.
So I finally pulled the trigger, literally, and gave my first effort ever of doing clear. Actually it was my first effort ever of shooting anything with a spray gun! Not the point. So on the area of the playfield where the paint job was truly jacked up and paint wanted to flake, the clear did, well, I don't know. Take a look...
That's after 20 minutes of set by the way, and I shot 2 coats. If you look at it from this angle though, it's not so bad...
I haven't run a finger on it yet, don't even know how soon before I should. Questions:
1. Is this even an issue? I shot clear to lock in the paint, now the touch-ups can begin. Is it simply a matter of sanding before hand?
2. Before I start with touch-ups, what is my next step? Do I sand or buff or whatever? If so, what grit?
3. If I'm not sanding and just painting directly, when I go to shoot another layer of clear do I scuff it up some first? Again, what grit?
Alright, I'm not freaked out yet, so hopefully I'm merely on the path and it first starts a bit rough. Oh, one last thing. As I let the table cure, should I just let it do so in my garage? Right now it's outside in the tent I set up for spraying. It's a 24 hour cure time I believe?
Quoted from shutyertrap:1. Is this even an issue? I shot clear to lock in the paint, now the touch-ups can begin. Is it simply a matter of sanding before hand?
You can see where the wood absorbed Silicone from some "liquid wax" somebody used at some point.
Other places where the paint was intact, you see the clear laid out nicely.
In the future, make the "lock in" coat much thinner. Like maybe 1/8 of that.
-
So you have 2 goals right now:
1. Sand down all those fisheyes to level out the playfield.
2. Thin that clearcoat out so the touchup are not floating above the playfield
As soon as the playfield stops stinking, it's time to get the 400 grit out and start leveling.....
Quoted from vid1900:You can see where the wood absorbed Silicone from some "liquid wax" somebody used at some point.
Other places where the paint was intact, you see the clear laid out nicely.
In the future, make the "lock in" coat much thinner. Like maybe 1/8 of that.
-
So you have 2 goals right now:
1. Sand down all those fisheyes to level out the playfield.
2. Thin that clearcoat out so the touchup are not floating above the playfield
As soon as the playfield stops stinking, it's time to get the 400 grit out and start leveling.....
Fantastic. So basically when I do the sanding, I'm looking for a consistent haze, that's when I'll know it's all level?
Quoted from shutyertrap:Fantastic. So basically when I do the sanding, I'm looking for a consistent haze, that's when I'll know it's all level?
Almost an entire sheet of 400 grit paper later, I believe I got all the fish eyes. I swear I took off all the clear, as it's a dull hazed surface now, but to the touch it's for sure there. Where the fish eye was happening, what I see now are all these little divers, seemingly wherever a star was painted.
Is this where the eye dropper of 2pac comes in? To the touch it feels like these little tiny dents. Am I okay to start painting and then when it comes time to clear fill those spots, or fill them now, buff, and then paint?
Quoted from shutyertrap:Is this where the eye dropper of 2pac comes in?
Yes, but you need to scuff up the shiny divots.
You can Dremel, Scratch Aw, Steel Wool or whatever to scuff them.
Also, fix that shooter lane in this stage too.
...and, I must say, pretty good recovery! I bet most readers crapped their pants when they saw your first photos.
Besides practice, is there a way to guage when enough clear has gone on for a lock coat? It seems like laying down too little increases orange peel but spraying more can rather quickly become too much.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Besides practice, is there a way to guage when enough clear has gone on for a lock coat? It seems like laying down too little increases orange peel but spraying more can rather quickly become too much.
Even if you get a little orange peel, you always sand for tooth before you paint anyways.
So spray a light lock-down coat - lightly sand (and flatten if you get orange peel) - then start your painting
Too thick of a lockdown coat and you get this:
and you don't want that!
You want to paint over a sanded surface, not a glossy one.
The only thing that likes to stick to a glossy surface are waterslide decals....
(don't forget to fill in the valleys around the inserts. You want everything level at this stage.)
Quoted from vid1900:You want to paint over a sanded surface, not a glossy one.
The only thing that likes to stick to a glossy surface are waterslide decals....
(don't forget to fill in the valleys around the inserts. You want everything level at this stage.)
Gotcha, wasn't sure about doing that. I had done a few, left a few. Just filled in the rest. Feeling good about all this, will sand again this afternoon. Now, regarding painting...my intention is to redo the red lasers, redo all the white areas, and touch up the black where needed. I'm thinking of also making all the numbers white again (hand paint or mask with frisket and spray?), and then of course dealing with the inserts. What is my order of operation? I'm not sure if I'm gonna deal with the planet at all, depends on how well everything else goes.
And vid, if this isn't the thread to address all this, lemme know. I have my actual table thread going on here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/firepower-my-first-pin-my-first-teardown/page/2#post-3745571
if my questions here are too much for the thread.
Went a little nuts. 400 grit wasn't taking down all the little dimple bumps from this morning's eyedropper clear job. Next closest grit I had was 240, so I went for it. Sanded only in one direction, wound up going over the entire thing. It took a lot of effort, but the result is that to the touch I've never felt it be smoother. I even took a ball and had it do extremely slow rolls over everything, and it never changed direction once. That is a huge win compared to the right angles it used to send the ball on!
It's really cloudy now, so do I go over it with a finer grit first?
Quoted from BrewNinja:That was literally answered many times, but the most recent was just a few above your post. The short answer is dont do it.
Yeah, it was convenience more than laziness but lesson learned. Even my wife said that was a rookie mistake.
For inserts with chips and small gouges on them, will the process of leveling with 2PAC fill those in so they are unnoticeable? Or should they be sanded down to remove that and flatten it out before using the clear?
Quoted from La_Porta:For inserts with chips and small gouges on them, will the process of leveling with 2PAC fill those in so they are unnoticeable? Or should they be sanded down to remove that and flatten it out before using the clear?
2PAC simply fills them in.
Usually I do the valley around each insert, so at the same time, I fill in any chips.
I'm fixing up a JackBot, and it looks like the factory clear is starting to bubble up in some places. So, I guess this is a two-part question:
1) Do I need to sand away as much of the original clearcoat as possible before applying my own? If so, do you have any advice on how to sand just enough to get rid of the clear but not take away any of the artwork?
2) If I don't need to remove all of the old clear, then I assume the approach I want is to use an X-Acto knife to cut out the bubbles, sand a little bit around the bubble edges to smooth them out, and carry on with my restoration as normal, correct?
Quoted from UvulaBob:I'm fixing up a JackBot, and it looks like the factory clear is starting to bubble up in some places. So, I guess this is a two-part question:
1) Do I need to sand away as much of the original clearcoat as possible before applying my own? If so, do you have any advice on how to sand just enough to get rid of the clear but not take away any of the artwork?
Sanding the old topcoat will generally expose any clear that is not properly bonded.
Use 600 grit and see what breaks free.
Quoted from UvulaBob:2) If I don't need to remove all of the old clear, then I assume the approach I want is to use an X-Acto knife to cut out the bubbles, sand a little bit around the bubble edges to smooth them out, and carry on with my restoration as normal, correct?
Let's see some pics of what you are dealing with.
Might be that someone tried to clear it in the past and messed it up.
When you sand the old topcoat, it's VERY thin. The sandpaper will quickly cut through any bubbles, then just feather them out with 800 grit.
Quoted from No_Skill:Any pro tips on color matching red? The stock Createx opaque red is too dark. I've tried adding various combos of white and yellow with no luck. I just can't get it vibrant enough.
Red is a primary color. Adding white will only shift it towards pink. Adding yellow will only sift it towards orange, etc. There are a number of natural and man-made red pigments. The createx opaque palette is fairly limited and has only one red. If I were you I would get some of the 5408 florescent red and see if you can get the red you need with it alone or by mixing it with the opaque red. If you still can't mix it you might need to branch out into the numerous transparent reds in the line.
Hey Vid,
Been working on my rotisserie. Having a hard time getting the hole and thread just right, for the water faucet handle that secures the playfield so it doesn't move side to side. I don't have a drill press and Have been using a cordless drill. Is a drill press a must? Or can this be accurately done with the cordless drill? The tap and die set I'm using is from HF. Not sure if I'm making the holes just a tad wider by using a cordless drill or the HF tap and die set is just too cheap for this job. Thanks 
Quoted from KornFreak28:Hey Vid,
Been working on my rotisserie. Having a hard time getting the hole and thread just right, for the water faucet handle that secures the playfield so it doesn't move side to side. I don't have a drill press and Have been using a cordless drill. Is a drill press a must? Or can this be accurately done with the cordless drill? The tap and die set I'm using is from HF. Not sure if I'm making the holes just a tad wider by using a cordless drill or the HF tap and die set is just too cheap for this job. Thanks
It's hard to get an exact diameter hole with a hand held drill.
Hand held makes the holes larger, and that means the bolt will be loose.
Make a new hole with a real drill press (ask your neighbors, kid's shop teacher, father in law.....) , don't worry about the old hole.
If you live in a forest and have no one to ask to drill the hole for you, try hand drilling but with the next size smaller bit.
Quoted from vid1900:It's hard to get an exact diameter hole with a hand held drill.
Hand held makes the holes larger, and that means the bolt will be loose.
Make a new hole with a real drill press (ask your neighbors, kid's shop teacher, father in law.....) , don't worry about the old hole.
If you live in a forest and have no one to ask to drill the hole for you, try hand drilling but with the next size smaller bit.
Great tip! What would be the next size down bit tho? Just to be sure.....Thanks Vid!
Quoted from KornFreak28:Great tip! What would be the next size down bit tho? Just to be sure.....Thanks Vid!
Normally you use a #7 drill bit for 1/4-20 so size down maybe to your #10 bit and see how she goes.
If a #10 is too tight to tap, then try a 9 then an #8.
You can always drill a hole larger; drilling it smaller is the hard part.
Quoted from vid1900:Normally you use a #7 drill bit for 1/4-20 so size down maybe to your #10 bit and see how she goes.
If a #10 is too tight to tap, then try a 9 then an #8.
You can always drill a hole larger; drilling it smaller is the hard part.
LOL, Good one Vid! 
Quoted from vid1900:Normally you use a #7 drill bit for 1/4-20 so size down maybe to your #10 bit and see how she goes.
If a #10 is too tight to tap, then try a 9 then an #8.
You might as well add the instructions for removing a broken tap, that will be Korn's next question.
If your tap is flexing instead of cutting when you try to turn it STOP. It's way harder to extract a broken tap than it is to drill the hole a little bigger and try again.
Quoted from YeOldPinPlayer:You might as well add the instructions for removing a broken tap, that will be Korn's next question.
If your tap is flexing instead of cutting when you try to turn it STOP. It's way harder to extract a broken tap than it is to drill the hole a little bigger and try again.
Good advise sir. First time for me. I'll get it done and post pics
Vid,
I've read the decal setting process and have done it several times with great success.
What I don't understand is if the clear that is sprayed over the decal is weaker than the clear that applied via tooth to the base clear.
Is there evidence that using decals can cause the clear to lift, separate etc over time/use in high impact areas. I used decals around the pop bumpers to recreate the rope on Eight Ball Deluxe. Have not had a problem yet. So it works...
Curious how the clear attaches to decals as well as it attaches to other clear.
As always, thanks.
Don't think of a WS decal like a paper or vinyl decal, think of it as a temporary substrate.
The solvents in the 2PAC melt the decal substrate, and all you see is the ink.
As long as you have a layer of 2PAC above and below the decal, it can't lift, because the decal itself has become saturated with clear.
If you apply too thick of a first layer of 2PAC, you see that the decal shrivels up into a ball (you've put too much tension on the face of the decal).
If you try to apply 2PAC with a brush, you see the decal instantly disintegrate.
So:
1. Apply your decal, allow to dry.
2. Dust on a thin layer of 2PAC. This layer will have a matte finish. The solvents will make the 2PAC to permeate through the decal, allowing the surface tension to equalize.
3. 15 minutes latter put on the lightest coat of 2PAC that looks barely glossy. This layer saturates the decal, melting it, fusing the ink to the playfield.
4. 30 minutes latter put on a normal thin coat of 2PAC.
Quoted from vid1900:What playfield?
OEM or Repo/restored?
POTC, original it is in pretty rough shape. There are 3 plastic posts stuck on playfield and the two small steel plates that hold the apron in place.
Quoted from waldo34:POTC, original it is in pretty rough shape. There are 3 plastic posts stuck on playfield and the two small steel plates that hold the apron in place.
Heat up the steel plates with a soldering iron and remove.
Try a hair dryer on the plastic posts.
If they are really glued down, score around them with a brand new Xacto blade, and pull them off. Make sure your score, or the clear/paint may lift with them.
Quoted from vid1900:Wax, then put Mylar over it.
Was going to paint around them with createx to at least restore the black lines. Can just mylar over that I guess. Wanted to put a spot of clear on it as well but if not possible then meh
Quoted from KornFreak28:Hey Vid,
I got a brand new TZ Mirco Playfield set but plan to do the playfield swap at a later date. What is the best way to store the playfield? Do I have to install rails on it while it sits in storage? Thanks Vid!
Put some rails on it and you won't have any surprises in years to come.
Put the rails on the back, so they don't stick to that clearcoat.
Quoted from vid1900:I use the Marco 22" wide roll.
Vid, do you put down full Mylar then cut out switch, sling, post, flipper, WHATEVER holes... or do you install Mylar in sections?
How do you use the 22" roll when installing?
Pretty excited - just cleared a TAF playfield that I know had been cleaned with Pledge many times in the past (I know this because I was the fool that didn't know better at the time and did it)....anyway, not a single fisheye. So apparently as long as your naphta that sh*t really well, you'll be fine even if you siliconed up the playfield in the past.
On another note, anyone have the right inlane drop area on a decal or have a good scan of it? Figured a decal will be easier than trying to paint what seems like a little bit of an intricate area.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Vid, do you put down full Mylar then cut out switch, sling, post, flipper, WHATEVER holes... or do you install Mylar in sections?
How do you use the 22" roll when installing?
Are you going to Mylar the entire playfield, or are you just doing high wear sections?
Quoted from vid1900:Are you going to Mylar the entire playfield, or are you just doing high wear sections?
Entire playfield for a couple pins, and high wear on others (depending on the state of where I stand with teardowns of different machines)
I have several projects to do.
Im getting ready to do my first clearcoat + decals on the beat up rollergames I picked up. It is NOT one of the few diamond plated versions or I probably wouldn't be here. The insert art is half gone on most high traffic areas, at first I thought they were decals, but the more I look the more I think the original finish just didnt adhere as well to the inserts over time and peeled. Should I scrap/sand this off before clearing? Or just do my first coat, sand, then decal over them?
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Sana'a
La Habra, CA