(Topic ID: 33446)
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Quoted from vid1900:Just throw out that white.
It might be old or someone stole half of it and cut it with water....
I was beginning to think the same thing myself. No problems until I got this 16oz bottle of white from Amazon. I am suspicious that it might be a fake or something along the lines of what you suggested.
Montreal, QC
Quoted from vid1900:That is super sucky.
I've seen where an edge lifts in one spot from the paint being too thick, but never the entire playfield like that.
If you put a Xacto under one of those lifted parts, can you peel it away?
I had the same issue with my Createx White and Grey opaque touch-ups to a way less intense level though. Just slight wrinkling when seen from sideways.
Others colors did not do that at all. White and grey had the less time to dry before doing the clear.
Quoted from vid1900:Was it sold BY Amazon, or some other seller?
Good question. Looking back through my orders, one of my createx orders was fulfilled by amazon (a starter set of opaque). The others were fulfilled by Hyatt's All Things Creative.
I am ordering my createx paint from dickblick.com from now on as they have decent prices and are listed on the createx site as a distributer. I have always gotten genuine top notch stuff from blick in the past for other art supplies.
I am thinking that I will brush out a sample of all of my current stock of createx onto a sealed wood panel, heat cure it and hit it with some clear to see what happens color by color. The white is definitely going in to the trash. Now that I am suspicious, I cannot use my current stock without worry but do not want to toss so much paint out.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Hey Vid - what the heck do you think happened here? My white fields look totally wrinkled. This is createx opaque white under 2pac. What should I do to fix it? Sand flat and try again? Was the white too thick or did the surface not have enough tooth for it to bond properly? I am flummoxed and want to avoid repeating my mistake.
What brand/type of 2PAC did you use? It seems to have been quite "hot" to attack Createx like that.
Quoted from Sheprd:What brand/type of 2PAC did you use? It seems to have been quite "hot" to attack Createx like that.
Evercoat 2740 with 2844 medium activator. Initially I thought my application of the clear was to blame (my technique is certainly in need of improvement) or perhaps the clear itself (maybe too hot as you suggested) but the fact that the red, purples and blacks were not affected makes me suspect something is amiss with the particular jar of white I used.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Evercoat 2740 with 2844 medium activator. Initially I thought my application of the clear was to blame (my technique is certainly in need of improvement) or perhaps the clear itself (maybe too hot as you suggested) but the fact that the red, purples and blacks were not affected makes me suspect something is amiss with the particular jar of white I used.
This works outstanding on Createx.
San Diego, CA
Hi Vid,
I am getting ready to touchup my GNR tonight. Bondo is drying in a few spots. I have my airbrush gun, frisket and createx ready. My questions is in regards to spot clearing. I don't want to clear the whole playfield, just the spots I touchup. Would you feather it into the rest of the playfield like you would painting a car, etc? I have much experience in painting as I professionally painted vintage bikes for years. I have sata touchup guns etc. Just wondering if when spot feathering how the mist on the edges of your spot blend with the rest of he play field without creating the distinct vein after color sanding, polishing. I may use the airbrush to apply the automotive clear as opposed to my other guns.
Quoted from Djshakes:My questions is in regards to spot clearing. I don't want to clear the whole playfield, just the spots I touchup. Would you feather it into the rest of the playfield like you would painting a car, etc? I have much experience in painting as I professionally painted vintage bikes for years. I have sata touchup guns etc. Just wondering if when spot feathering how the mist on the edges of your spot blend with the rest of he play field without creating the distinct vein after color sanding, polishing. I may use the airbrush to apply the automotive clear as opposed to my other guns.
Just like on the hood of a car, spot clearing only lasts a few months and then the edge starts to lift.
If your game already has that amount of wear on the surface, the rest of the clear is probably almost worn through too.
Save yourself a ton of work and just clear the entire playfield.
You don't have to depopulate the backside:
Quoted from vid1900:Just like on the hood of a car, spot clearing only lasts a few months and then the edge starts to lift.
If your game already has that amount of wear on the surface, the rest of the clear is probably almost worn through too.
Save yourself a ton of work and just clear the entire playfield.
You don't have to depopulate the backside:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/20#post-1788273
The playfield is quite nice, it just has wear there because the scoop was bent up and launched the ball in the air and it landed in that path. My concern about clearing it all is I'm sure they used millwax or other crap on the playfield. I'm willing to clear the whole thing, just worried about products previous owners used and if it will cause me more angst. Naphtha should clean it all off?
Quoted from Djshakes:My concern about clearing it all is I'm sure they used millwax or other crap on the playfield. I'm willing to clear the whole thing, just worried about products previous owners used and if it will cause me more angst. Naphtha should clean it all off?
Yep, sand it for tooth, clean with Naphtha and shoot.
You will be so glad you did not try to spot clear!
Quoted from vid1900:Yep, sand it for tooth, clean with Naphtha and shoot.
You will be so glad you did not try to spot clear!
I thought of something else, spot clear and seal it in with a long piece of mylar. Should prevent future damage from that kick out. The mylar would seal in the clear don't you think?
Quoted from Djshakes:I thought of something else, spot clear and seal it in with a long piece of mylar. Should prevent future damage from that kick out. The mylar would seal in the clear don't you think?
Just paint and put the Mylar down.
That's way easier than protecting the playfield by clearcoating it.
Thanks vid. I played with the airbrush tonight. Put on two colors. So you're positive placing this frisket over the new painted colors won't pull them off? Stuff seems pretty tacky. Almost like packaging tape. Would suck to rip the new paint off.
Quoted from Djshakes:Thanks vid. I played with the airbrush tonight. Put on two colors. So you're positive placing this frisket over the new painted colors won't pull them off? Stuff seems pretty tacky. Almost like packaging tape. Would suck to rip the new paint off.
Either it's too thick, or it's not heat set.
Don't frisket over tacky paint.
I often put a thin layer of clear over the paint between colors to lock it down
Yes, I hear set it. The paint isn't tacky, it's fine, I'm just saying the frisket seems really tacky. Worry about it ripping off paint. I wish these hf airbrushes were help still instead of Suction. The createx is kind of thick and you have to fill half the pot to shoot even if you shooting a small spot.
Hi Vid ,I finished clearing my second play field . It's coming along ok.I just cant seem to get it to a nice mirror shine.
and I'm not sure where I'm going wrong.. you probably cant see it in the pic but there's still swirl marks.
here's what I've done maybe you could pick out my problem.
after final clear I need to sand out any dust and stuff.
1)I start with 1000 grit wet sand using the air orbital sander.
2) wipe off go to 2000 grit repeat
3) wipe off start buffing with da buffer orange pad med cut #1 meguiars mirror glaze
4) then #2 fine cut meguiars mirror glaze
5) then swirl remover #9 meguiars mirror glaze
but after all that I still have the swirl marks.. Is it from the sanding still?? or the buffer?? Am I using too much pressure on the buffer??
to much speed?? A little frustrating..
thanks for your input.
there hard to see .vary smooth ,you cant feel them with your nail. where would novus 2 fall in the abrasiveness of the previously mentioned products?
Couple of questions (and there's way too many pages to go back and search through) as I'm hoping to spray clear for my first time this week. First off, is there a PSI that everyone prefers? I'm using Legacy Finishes Champion Clear 9960 and it says 30-40 psi, at gun I'm assuming. It's just I've read elsewhere of people using something in the 20's. My other question is if I want to shoot more than one coat, what do I do with the gun inbetween? Am I able to leave it as is for the 20 minutes of setting and then spray again, or do I have to clean in between? What about the gravity feed cup? Last question is, how much should I use? Obviously don't want to run out while spraying, but also don't want to mix too much up and waste it. As I haven't done this before, I have no idea how many ounces to mix.
Recomended air pressure is at the gun. Proper air pressure depends on both the clear and the gun, some guns need more pressure than others (hvlp vs conventional vs compliant). You want just enough pressure to break up the clear without it puddling up. I normally use about 6-8 ounces of ready to spray clear for 1 coat. Try mixing 10-12 and measure how much you used on you first coat to decide how much more you may need. The clear should be fine for 20 minutes in the gun between coats.
Quoted from tonycip:there hard to see .vary smooth ,you cant feel them with your nail. where would novus 2 fall in the abrasiveness of the previously mentioned products?
Novus2 is just above Machine Glaze.
If the swirls are "very hard to see" then don't worry about them at all. Once the playfield is populated and the glass is on, you will NEVER be able to see them.
Quoted from shutyertrap:I'm hoping to spray clear for my first time this week. First off, is there a PSI that everyone prefers?
You will probably be on the high side of the products recommended PSI if you are using the HF gun.
When I try out a new product, I shoot a little on a sheet of cardboard, adjust the air, shoot again, and go. It's really easy to see you have the right air.
If you just want to play with the gun, shoot a few ounces of Lacquer Thinner and see how she works.
Quoted from shutyertrap:It's just I've read elsewhere of people using something in the 20's.
Their gauge must be inaccurate. Even my $400 guns won't spray 2PAC at 20psi.
Quoted from shutyertrap:My other question is if I want to shoot more than one coat, what do I do with the gun inbetween? Am I able to leave it as is for the 20 minutes of setting and then spray again, or do I have to clean in between?
The can will tell you the "pot life" of how long it will sit in the gun. 1-2 hours is normal depending on temp and product.
Use your leftover 2PAC to give light coats over other playfields between colors, or wooden playfield rails, or dripping it in to level sunken inserts, or ......
Okay, maybe this is a bit where I'm confused. According to the chart on the on website, it gives 3 setup options for PSI...
Gravity Feed @ 30-40psi (2.0-2.8 bar)
Syphon Feed @ 35-50psi (2.5-3.4 bar)
HVLP Inlet Air @ 30psi (2.0 bar)
My HVLP gun is gravity feed, so do I pay attention to #1 or #3? Also, what is 2.0 bar?
And thank you for pointing out pot life. It says 4-6 hours, so I'll be just fine if I do 2 coats for sure! My only other concern now is my compressor. It's only 8 gallons but I think it won't need to kick on in the time it takes to spray a playfield. Should I crank the psi up high at the tank and then regulate at the gun, or should I keep the regulator at the tank say at 60psi while maintaining 30psi at the gun? Or does it even matter?
One last thing. How do you dispose of leftover clear, if there is any? Does it need to go in a special container?
Quoted from shutyertrap:Also, what is 2.0 bar?
Bar is a pressure unit often seen in Europe. Probably because they don't use Inches.
Quoted from shutyertrap:My HVLP gun is gravity feed, so do I pay attention to #1 or #3?
Probably #3. But turn it up higher if you need it. Usually cheap guns need more pressure.
Quoted from shutyertrap:Should I crank the psi up high at the tank and then regulate at the gun, or should I keep the regulator at the tank say at 60psi while maintaining 30psi at the gun? Or does it even matter?
Leave your tank at ~100psi and regulate at the gun.
Quoted from shutyertrap:Also, what is 2.0 bar?
29 PSI. Google will convert units if you ask it to. eg. https://www.google.com/search?q=2+bar+in+psi
Please forgive me asking what may be bone headed questions, I'm learning! Okay, so I'm supposed to do a 4
mixture. I have this mixing cup...
I'm unsure how to use it. It also has these markings on it...
Am I better off using one over the other? Or is it simply if I use 8oz of one to add 2oz of the other?
Quoted from shutyertrap:Please forgive me asking what may be bone headed questions, I'm learning! Okay, so I'm supposed to do a 4
I'm unsure how to use it. It also has these markings on it...
Am I better off using one over the other? Or is it simply if I use 8oz of one to add 2oz of the other?
Use the ratio, it makes it so easy:
Is it best practice to airbrush all the colors and then clear over all of them, or to do a light coat of clear between each color? On page two of the guide it sounds like the first option, but in post 4269 you say you sometimes do a thin layer of clear between colors. Can you go into more detail as to when you do either option?
Vid-
Let me preface this by stating I'm an idiot. With that out of the way, I've been repainting an OXO playfield almost 100%, it had planking, missing paint down to wood, scratches, cracks, etc. I have been using acrylic paints, masking areas and airbrushing one color at a time. When one color is complete I have been moving on to another color so to prevent the masking for the next color from lifting up my newly painted areas I have been spraying a clear coat over the playfield. Here's where the idiot part comes in. I just grabbed whatever I had handy in the basement to seal the field, in this case water-based Minwax polyurethane as it was convenient and didn't stink up the house.
Fast forward to last night. I'm about 90% done with the playfield and started masking everything off to spray the field color. I laid down some blue tape, trimmed as needed, and pulled up the waste. In the process I started pulling up large chunks of the polyurethane so I stopped, walked away, and read a book instead. I think i already know the answer to this question but was using polyurethane to seal between colors a fatal error? I thoroughly cleaned the playfield beforehand with alcohol and naptha so I'd hope this isn't an issue of old wax bit either way it sounds like I might be screwed. Any thoughts?
Quoted from No_Skill:Is it best practice to airbrush all the colors and then clear over all of them, or to do a light coat of clear between each color? On page two of the guide it sounds like the first option, but in post 4269 you say you sometimes do a thin layer of clear between colors. Can you go into more detail as to when you do either option?
A light color that has to go down first is a good reason to clear over it, before shooting any other colors.
Putting frisket directly on fresh paint could be dicey (lets say 2 new colors are touching each other) so that could be another reason to clear between colors.
Other times 5 different colors can be shot all over the playfield, before needing to lock them down.
Quoted from northside-irish:In the process I started pulling up large chunks of the polyurethane so I stopped
Water based poly is crap.
It not very clear.
It dulls the colors.
It does not wear well.
It does not polish to a high sheen.
And, of course, you can often peel it off the playfield.
7c424265aeffbcf01c02b3a66d699c3edede4cdc (resized).jpg
Peel off all you can, let the playfield sit in a warm location for a few weeks, and then try locking down the rest with 2PAC.
Hopefully, the remaining poly will stay put under the 2PAC.
Hey guys -
Apparently because I live too close to the government, people around here just aren't creative.
I can't find any place by me that can print white.
If someone has a location near them that can do white on the water-slide decal, can you drop me a PM? I would like to 'hire' your services to get my decals printed and mail them to me.
Much appreciated!
-Mike
If you local hobby shop can't print your decals, there are many online resources
https://kadee.com/htmbord/alpscustom.htm
Why can't you use a white waterslide decal and print the color on it?
Quoted from Coyote:Hey guys -
Apparently because I live too close to the government, people around here just aren't creative.
I can't find any place by me that can print white.
If someone has a location near them that can do white on the water-slide decal, can you drop me a PM? I would like to 'hire' your services to get my decals printed and mail them to me.
Much appreciated!
-Mike
Quoted from CoitusMysterioso:Why can't you use a white waterslide decal and print the color on it?
Because it has to be clear (over an insert) with white text. 
Quoted from vid1900:If you local hobby shop can't print your decals, there are many online resources
https://kadee.com/htmbord/alpscustom.htm
http://www.circusdecals.com/services.html
http://www.microscale.com/
Ah, kosher! I'll check them out!
I'm going to do some spot airbrushing on an EM PF, with only removal minimal PF parts, as needed... after I cure the paint, I'm assuming a put a spot of clear down to protect it? Any advice on this? Water base? Assuming spray with airbrush as well, or is a spray can okay (Rustoleum Clear)? Is there a clear recommended for this type of work?
Thanks.
Vid, I re-glued a few inserts after removal and sanding, and some sunk in about 1/2 a millimeter or so, very slightly, but you can see a bit of a wood ring around...can I somehow paint that a bit, and drip in clear? Or, should I put the clear on, and then just use the new decals to cover over that?
Quoted from KingDaddy:I'm going to do some spot airbrushing on an EM PF, with only removal minimal PF parts, as needed... after I cure the paint, I'm assuming a put a spot of clear down to protect it? Any advice on this? Assuming spray with airbrush as well? Is there a clear recommended for this type of work?
Thanks.
Spot clearing will start chipping along the edge, just like it does when you try to spot clear the hood of a car.
So if you absolutely must spot clear, make sure you end the clear an inch or so from the repair. That way it will take a while to chip all the way to the fresh paint.
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid, I re-glued a few inserts after removal and sanding, and some sunk in about 1/2 a millimeter or so, very slightly, but you can see a bit of a wood ring around...can I somehow paint that a bit, and drip in clear? Or, should I put the clear on, and then just use the new decals to cover over that?
Yes, paint the Keyline around the edge of the insert and then fill with clear.
I do that all the time.
Quoted from vid1900:A light color that has to go down first is a good reason to clear over it, before shooting any other colors.
Putting frisket directly on fresh paint could be dicey (lets say 2 new colors are touching each other) so that could be another reason to clear between colors.
Other times 5 different colors can be shot all over the playfield, before needing to lock them down.
That makes sense. One last one (for now), do you usually sand the new paint before clearing or just shoot right over it?
Quoted from No_Skill:That makes sense. One last one (for now), do you usually sand the new paint before clearing or just shoot right over it?
I don't sand white or yellow, but most other colors get a tooth sanding (and a edge knockdown if I can feel it)
Quoted from vid1900:Spot clearing will start chipping along the edge, just like it does when you try to spot clear the hood of a car.
So if you absolutely must spot clear, make sure you end the clear an inch or so from the repair. That way it will take a while to chip all the way to the fresh paint.
Should I just airbrush, cure, and then leave alone -- without clear, then?
Quoted from vid1900:The paint will quickly wear away without protection.
Mylar or clear will be needed for sure.
Okay, thanks! Final question: I will likely use a water based clear for spot protection -- is it best to spray? One coat? Matte finish? Can I simply use something in a canister like this:
That was literally answered many times, but the most recent was just a few above your post. The short answer is dont do it.
Quoted from vid1900:Water based poly is crap.
It not very clear.
It dulls the colors.
It does not wear well.
It does not polish to a high sheen.
And, of course, you can often peel it off the playfield.Peel off all you can, let the playfield sit in a warm location for a few weeks, and then try locking down the rest with 2PAC.
Hopefully, the remaining poly will stay put under the 2PAC.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/16#post-1667109
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