(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

By vid1900

11 years ago


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There are 8,789 posts in this topic. You are on page 85 of 176.
#4201 7 years ago
Quoted from tonycip:

Hi Vid I was thinking about repairing and clearing a mousin around playfield , but was reading HSA site and they won't clear any system 11 play fields due to the lacquer that was used ,stating adhesion issues and white dots showing up after clearing on the inserts . do you agree? should I pass on doing it? or is there some things I can do to not have these problems ..

Pros clearcoat sys11 playfields all the time.

Don't remove the ink, but just the clear, from inserts that might give you trouble.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1739707

#4202 7 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

So for Williams stainless steel guides I wouldn't have to spray any sort of clear coat after re-graining them correct?

Nope.

You can re-grain them, or polish them to a mirror finish with Green Compound.

#4203 7 years ago

I know this has probably been beaten to death over the years, but the old links just don't work anymore: anyone know a good source of the plastic primer online somewhere? I can't be sure if what I am finding is the right stuff.

One more question, Vid: you said you do your insert repair prior to laying down clear, which is what I am attempting to do. How is it that you can fill the inserts with 2PAC, and then sand them down without sanding down the paint on the play field? I am sure you can be very, very careful...but is there any other way at all? I already have removed the old top coat with ME & EtOH.

#4204 7 years ago

Think I may be missing something... read through the early stuff, but I just want to get rid of like basic surface level stuff like dust and germs and don't want to have to break out the vacuum cleaner and attachments to clean. Can I just wipe off everything with a damp cloth every once and a while? Or will that F it up? It's a Lost World without mylar. Not asking for "I want it to look great" reasons, but more for like "ew gross" reasons. Thanks.

#4205 7 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

I know this has probably been beaten to death over the years, but the old links just don't work anymore: anyone know a good source of the plastic primer online somewhere? I can't be sure if what I am finding is the right stuff.

The links I tried still appear to work.

http://www.generalrubberplastics.com/adhesives-sealants-and-accessories/accelerators-primers-and-activators/3m-trade-scotch-weld-trade-instant-adhesive-primer-ac77-2-fl-oz-59-1-ml-bottle.html

http://www.all-spec.com/Catalog/Adhesives-Sealants-Tapes/Adhesive-Primers-Promoters/Adhesive-Primers/00048011627281

#4206 7 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

How is it that you can fill the inserts with 2PAC, and then sand them down without sanding down the paint on the play field? I am sure you can be very, very careful...but is there any other way at all? I already have removed the old top coat with ME & EtOH.

You have to sand the entire playfield or the clearcoat won't stick to it.

There is no way around it.

DON'T sand all the way through the paint (obviously), just de-gloss it and shoot a thin coat of clear.

This coat locks down any soft or chalky paint, so you can start repairing and frisketing.

#4207 7 years ago
Quoted from Jeremy8419:

Think I may be missing something... read through the early stuff, but I just want to get rid of like basic surface level stuff like dust and germs and don't want to have to break out the vacuum cleaner and attachments to clean. Can I just wipe off everything with a damp cloth every once and a while? Or will that F it up? It's a Lost World without mylar. Not asking for "I want it to look great" reasons, but more for like "ew gross" reasons. Thanks.

Don't use any water based cleaners on a Lost World.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide

#4208 7 years ago
Quoted from matthess:

Has anyone tried this for shooting clear? I wonder how well it would work? http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-kit-44677.html

I have this sprayer. I've used it to spray automotive paint , oil based paint and water based paint. I've restored around 20 arcade cabs and a pinball with it. Works perfectly, cleans up easily.

Well worth the money.

#4209 7 years ago

Just what I thought...thank you for the confirmation.

#4210 7 years ago

Oh, crud, sorry. I got my threads mixed up. I mean I read all those early ones, but I'd really like to wipe it down (as in a single stroke) with something wet. Idk, kinda the whole "sweep but don't mop" sorta ick feeling behind just vacuuming.

#4211 7 years ago
Quoted from Jeremy8419:

Oh, crud, sorry. I got my threads mixed up. I mean I read all those early ones, but I'd really like to wipe it down (as in a single stroke) with something wet. Idk, kinda the whole "sweep but don't mop" sorta ick feeling behind just vacuuming.

You can wet wipe it with Naphtha, but then you have to re-wax it.

#4212 7 years ago
Quoted from matthess:

Has anyone tried this for shooting clear? I wonder how well it would work? http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-kit-44677.html

It works fine. I have a similar unit to shoot clear with because I didn't have any other use for a large compressor and didn't want to dedicate that much for space in my small work area for a compressor. Mine didn't come from hf though. Can't remember where I got it.

#4213 7 years ago

Hey Vid,

How about the pop bumper ring and rod? Do those have to be clear coated for protection against rust? I polished them to a mirror finish already, so just making sure I don't need to clear coat them. Thanks!

#4214 7 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Hey Vid,
How about the pop bumper ring and rod? Do those have to be clear coated for protection against rust? I polished them to a mirror finish already, so just making sure I don't need to clear coat them. Thanks!

You can wax them to make them faster, if you want.

Don't clear coat them

#4215 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can wax them to make them faster, if you want.
Don't clear coat them

That sounds good Vid! Thanks!

#4216 7 years ago

Hey Vid, what are your thoughts on what to do to this lane?

20170406_200553 (resized).jpg20170406_200553 (resized).jpg

#4217 7 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Hey Vid, what are your thoughts on what to do to this lane?

Sand, fill, paint, clear

You cant sand out that deep dirt, so it has to be filled and painted.

#4218 7 years ago

What are the best drill bits for putting t-nut holes in a playfield? And would you drill from top to bottom or bottom to top to minimize paint damage and tearing?

#4219 7 years ago
Quoted from jboner1058:

What are the best drill bits for putting t-nut holes in a playfield? And would you drill from top to bottom or bottom to top to minimize paint damage and tearing?

For the strongest installation, a T-nut needs a small hole through the top of the playfield, and a larger hole up from the bottom.

If the base of the T-nut needs to be recessed, it is possible that you need to drill 3 holes....

TNUT (resized).jpgTNUT (resized).jpg

#4220 7 years ago

I have a question about cupped inserts. I understand the process for plain cupped inserts, but what do you do if they have text on them? I would assume there are at least three options:

1. Leave the text as is, fill the insert, and do a waterslide of the keyline
2. Remove the test, fill the insert, and do a waterslide of the text and keyline
3. Leave the text as is, fill the insert, and do a waterslide of the text and keyline

I think I would do option 1 if the text is in good shape and option 2 if the text needs repair. I would also guess option 3 might cause double image issues if the cupping is too deep, but maybe not?

Am I on the right track here or should something completely different be done?

IMG_2418 (resized).JPGIMG_2418 (resized).JPG

Note: I haven't done anything with this playfield yet.

#4221 7 years ago
Quoted from jboner1058:

What are the best drill bits for putting t-nut holes in a playfield? And would you drill from top to bottom or bottom to top to minimize paint damage and tearing?

I suppose if you are really committed to doing things to the nth degree, you could do as Vid suggests and make 3 holes. I suppose it would depend upon the application. I added t-nuts to a number of star posts on a Sorcerer a while back, as the original wood screws weren't holding well anymore. My technique was pretty simple - in order to be sure the hole was perpendicular to the playfield, I used a drill press to cut a guide hole of the same diameter as the diameter of the t-nut post through a thick piece of material (in my case a piece of 1" thick plywood. You could screw together a couple small blocks of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood, or if you had a *flat* piece of solid wood available, that would work also). Now chuck the drill bit into your cordless drill, slide the block over the bit, and line up the bit with the hole left by the wood screw. Slide the block down onto the playfield and hold securely, and slowly drill through the playfield. A brad point bit will cut more cleanly and is probably a good idea if you are cutting through clear coat. It's a good idea to have a block held firmly to the underside of the playfield so that the bit keeps cutting when it comes through the back of the playfield - this will give you a very clean exit hole.
Ideally, you will clamp down the guide and backer block, or have a second pair of hands available to help you. It really isn't as hard as all that sounds.

If you're adding a t-nut to a high-tension or high-collision area where the extra wiggle room between the diameter of the tnut post and the thread of the playfield post would concern you, follow the same procedure as above, but use a very small drill bit initially. This will center the hole through the playfield from the existing wood screw hole. If you are going to recess the base of the t-nut, now is the time to do so. Use a (sharp) forstner bit and go slow, it will take only a few rotations. After that, while still on the backside of the pf, use a bit the diameter of the tnut shaft to go halfway through the playfield. Now go to the topside and drill your final hole to just clear the dimension of the playfield post's threads. Personally, I think drilling 2 different diameters in a 1/2" plywood playfield is probably overkill (particularly where there is a star post spreading the load), but I get where Vid is coming from. I would think adding a cut washer (and ideally a lock washer above it) underneath small posts would be standard-issue best practices at this point. That would further minimize deflection, and strengthen my argument that 3 holes is one hole too many.

When inserting the new t-nut, place a wood block against the top side of the pf and use a C-clap or F-clamp to press the teeth of the nut into the plywood underside. The extra deep C-clamp Vid uses for setting inserts may be necessary depending on far from the edge the t-nut is going.

I'm a big fan of adding t-nuts. They're cheap, and if manufacturers had been looking to build games to last for decades they would have used them a lot more than they did. To me it's playfield bulletproofing, much like the bulletproofing we do to keep our boards from failing on us.

Good luck! Once you install your first one it'll go quickly and easily.

#4222 7 years ago
Quoted from No_Skill:

I have a question about cupped inserts. I understand the process for plain cupped inserts, but what do you do if they have text on them?

Touch up any text and Keylines - then fill her up:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/17#post-1717646

#4223 7 years ago

Has anyone used the trycolors website to get good starting point when mixing colors? I stumbled across it today while researching mixing paint. You can choose any color and it will give you the ratio of primary colors needed to make the color. It could be useful to get a good starting point.

http://trycolors.com/palette/

#4224 7 years ago

Vid, On the early 2000's Stern fields, is it possible to get the surface back to a gloss again ,like when it was new by buffing with different compounds and pads? In this photo you can obviously see the difference between where the ball does ,and doesnt travel.

20170416_143856 (resized).jpg20170416_143856 (resized).jpg

#4225 7 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Vid, On the early 2000's Stern fields, is it possible to get the surface back to a gloss again ,like when it was new by buffing with different compounds and pads? In this photo you can obviously see the difference between where the ball does ,and doesnt travel.

Yes, Novus2 is the perfect compound to bring those areas back to gloss.

Make sure you wax when you are done.

#4226 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yes, Novus2 is the perfect compound to bring those areas back to gloss.
Make sure you wax when you are done.

I don't have any Novus but I do have all of meguiars compounds. Would that suffice? I am assuming use a foam pad at low speed?

#4227 7 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

I don't have any Novus but I do have all of meguiars compounds. Would that suffice? I am assuming use a foam pad at low speed?

I don't encourage beginners to start with any mechanical buffers. The old coatings might not be fully adhered any longer to the substrate.

Novus2 is $5 at any motorcycle or boat shop.

If you do auto for a living, then use "Mirror Glaze 9" followed by "Machine Glaze #3 " at med-high speed. Practice under the apron, BEFORE you wreck the visible parts of the playfield.

#4228 7 years ago

Hey vid, looking for some advice on how to repair this damage on my Tommy. I've done scoops and such many times and am fairly comfortable with this, but this is a whole other ballgame.

IMG_9135 (resized).JPGIMG_9135 (resized).JPG

IMG_9136 (resized).JPGIMG_9136 (resized).JPG

IMG_9137 (resized).JPGIMG_9137 (resized).JPG

IMG_9138 (resized).JPGIMG_9138 (resized).JPG

#4229 7 years ago

Wow, that's crazy.

Get some Fiberglass Resin, brush it into those cracks & layers and clamp it under wax paper to get it flat & solid again.

Then get some Wood Epoxy (the stuff you kneed together) and re-shape.

Paint and clear.

0

How did this happen?

#4230 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I don't encourage beginners to start with any mechanical buffers. The old coatings might not be fully adhered any longer to the substrate.
Novus2 is $5 at any motorcycle or boat shop.
If you do auto for a living, then use "Mirror Glaze 9" followed by "Machine Glaze #3 " at med-high speed. Practice under the apron, BEFORE you wreck the visible parts of the playfield.

Yes, I have done professional automotive detailing for over 20 years so I have plenty of experience in buffing using various compounds and pads, but as far as playfields I didn't know what to start with due to it not being a car. What pad do you recommend? Thanks again Vid!!

#4231 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Wow, that's crazy.
How did this happen?

Yeah really!!! Looks like a hack of some sort that never got finished, unless the Op has already removed it?? Someone definitely inserted a screw into each side of that lane for some odd reason.

#4232 7 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Yeah really!!! Looks like a hack of some sort that never got finished, unless the Op has already removed it?? Someone definitely inserted a screw into each side of that lane for some odd reason.

I have the same thing on my Black rose, no idea why. Also looks like the made a gouge where the ball goes from. The trough to the lane with a knife for some reason. Very annoying, ball gets stuck on it sometimes

#4233 7 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

Yes, I have done professional automotive detailing for over 20 years so I have plenty of experience in buffing using various compounds and pads, but as far as playfields I didn't know what to start with due to it not being a car. What pad do you recommend? Thanks again Vid!!

You are all set if you do pro detail work.

Lately I've been using Chemical Brothers pads (not that any other brand would not work, but I got a ton of them from a place that went under). Orange is probably where you are at, then white to polish her out.

#4234 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Wow, that's crazy.
Get some Fiberglass Resin, brush it into those cracks & layers and clamp it under wax paper to get it flat & solid again.
Then get some Wood Epoxy (the stuff you kneed together) and re-shape.
Paint and clear.
0
How did this happen?

As far as I can guess, the original crappy data east shooter chewed up the end, and then some idiot decided to run screws horizontally through the pf. The people I bought it from hadn't touched it in years. The rest of the game looks freakin pristine, except the shooter lane.

#4235 7 years ago

Anyone tried to bleach white, opaque inserts? I have one or two that are much more yelllow than the others. I know some people in the computer resto world have bleached gray plastic cases back to gray from having a yellowish tinge.

#4236 7 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Anyone tried to bleach white, opaque inserts? I have one or two that are much more yelllow than the others. I know some people in the computer resto world have bleached gray plastic cases back to gray from having a yellowish tinge.

The usual thing in retro computing is Retrobrite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retr0bright), but that's for certain plastics - I don't know if the inserts are the right type of plastic, and I don't know if it's going to cause collateral damage given that you have to leave it on a while.

#4237 7 years ago

Anyone have any advise on mixing the light wood color of the PF? I'm having trouble. I have the basic set of createx colors and a badger brown to work with. I've tried mixing from yellow,red,blue and white and the badger brown with white and yellow combinations. I'm not sure what else to do. I thought vid or hep talked about this somewhere but I can't find it.

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

#4238 7 years ago

I'd try dark brown + white + 1/10 drop of yellow.

#4239 7 years ago

Hey Vid,

Might be a bit off topic but I got a few questions. I'm doing a restoration of my IJ. I started tumbling all metal, tumbling, polishing and clear coating the coil brackets to protect them from corrosion, cleaning all coils, installing new parts everywhere, ect. I came across this coil bracket that has a piece of insulation. I removed it since it was in really bad shape. The manual has a part number for it. I tried several vendors with no luck. Is this insulation really necessary? Could I just use some Mylar instead?

I mentioned that I've been cleaning and clear coating metal brackets for protection. Should I spray some clear coat on the ball trough assembly? Is it in danger of getting corroded if I don't clear coat it? Seems to me that the balls will eventually remove the clear coat from the ball trough assembly and spread it all over the playfield. Also considering installing the ball trough protector seen in the pic. Thanks!

IMG_0243 (resized).PNGIMG_0243 (resized).PNG

IMG_0367 (resized).PNGIMG_0367 (resized).PNG

#4240 7 years ago

Hi Vid,
I would love your advice on this repair.

BTW thanks for this thread it is inspiring and very helpfull.

20170425_152323 (resized).jpg20170425_152323 (resized).jpg

#4241 7 years ago

Vid, is the process for installing star rollovers the same as inserts? I've got a game where most of them are falling out of the playfield.

Do you know if any places like Home Depot, Harbor Freight, etc carry the 3M plastic primer?

#4242 7 years ago

Hey Vid - what the heck do you think happened here? My white fields look totally wrinkled. This is createx opaque white under 2pac. What should I do to fix it? Sand flat and try again? Was the white too thick or did the surface not have enough tooth for it to bond properly? I am flummoxed and want to avoid repeating my mistake.

20170426_163959 (resized).jpg20170426_163959 (resized).jpg

#4243 7 years ago

Huh.
That's a neat effect. At least, visually. Probably wouldn't do well for gameplay, though.

#4245 7 years ago
Quoted from Timberwolf:

Hi Vid,
I would love your advice on this repair.
BTW thanks for this thread it is inspiring and very helpfull.

Just about every original MM playfield looks like that.

Glue insert from back to keep it from further movement.

Get a scan and print all the black keylining and text on waterslide.

Paint White down first, then do the brown and yellow over top of it. Check with flashlight to make sure the White not too thick to allow light through.

Use rice paper to make insert cloudy like the crappy old Williams clear.

Thin coat of clear, decal on black, topcoat clear.

Same for the shield inserts above the pops.

#4246 7 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Hey Vid - what the heck do you think happened here? My white fields look totally wrinkled. This is createx opaque white under 2pac. What should I do to fix it? Sand flat and try again? Was the white too thick or did the surface not have enough tooth for it to bond properly? I am flummoxed and want to avoid repeating my mistake.

Or could it be that I got too heavy too fast with the clear? The mist coat looked so rough that I kept spraying until it smoothed out for fear that I would end up with a sixty grit sandpaper texture to the clear.

#4247 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just about every original MM playfield looks like that.
Glue insert from back to keep it from further movement.
Get a scan and print all the black keylining and text on waterslide.
Paint White down first, then do the brown and yellow over top of it. Check with flashlight to make sure the White not too thick to allow light through.
Use rice paper to make insert cloudy like the crappy old Williams clear.
Thin coat of clear, decal on black, topcoat clear.
Same for the shield inserts above the pops.

Thanks. the rice paper is what I was missing.

#4248 7 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Hey Vid - what the heck do you think happened here? My white fields look totally wrinkled. This is createx opaque white under 2pac. What should I do to fix it? Sand flat and try again? Was the white too thick or did the surface not have enough tooth for it to bond properly? I am flummoxed and want to avoid repeating my mistake.

Must not have been enough tooth, or the paint was not fully dry.

Did it only happen in this spot, or all over the playfield?

#4249 6 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Must not have been enough tooth, or the paint was not fully dry.
Did it only happen in this spot, or all over the playfield?

It happened everywhere where there was fresh, unsealed white paint. Very small repairs in black and purple were not affected. I had sanded the entire playfield with 600 grit prior to painting. I heat set all of the paint with a hairdryer on high 20 minutes after application and applied the clear two days later. According to my infrared temp gun, my hairdryer method gets the paint to about 115-120F. I hold that temperature for about a minute in each area.

Here are more examples:

20170427_095056 (resized).jpg20170427_095056 (resized).jpg

20170427_093748 (resized).jpg20170427_093748 (resized).jpg

20170427_093703 (resized).jpg20170427_093703 (resized).jpg

#4250 6 years ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

It happened everywhere where there was fresh, unsealed white paint. Very small repairs in black and purple were not affected. I had sanded the entire playfield with 600 grit prior to painting. I heat set all of the paint with a hairdryer on high 20 minutes after application and applied the clear two days later. According to my infrared temp gun, my hairdryer method gets the paint to about 115-120F. I hold that temperature for about a minute in each area.
Here are more examples:

That is super sucky.

I've seen where an edge lifts in one spot from the paint being too thick, but never the entire playfield like that.

If you put a Xacto under one of those lifted parts, can you peel it away?

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